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Posted: 6/4/2015 7:59:45 PM EDT
There is lots of talk about Charging Handles (CH), what works, what doesn't work, and the different things people would like to see changed.
My own opinion of CHs is based on my MIL, LEO, and time as an instructor, in addition to the work done in this industry. While I'm more than happy to talk about that, I'm more interested in what people think makes for a good or bad CH, and what they think could or should be changed. This thread will no doubt be read by a lot of companies and industry people, so please share your honest thoughts. Don't bother to share opinions that are stuff you read on the internet, there is already enough misinformation floating around without adding that stuff! In my mind, the first decent latch that came out (mainstream), was the PRI Gasbuster. They were smart enough to use a larger latch, but also to thicken areas up, and create a diversion for gas which was of help to guys using cans/ suppressor/ silencers. The next step that came along was the latches which you could add onto your existing CH. I can't recall the name, but there was one which seemed to reign supreme for awhile. It was great for optics as it stood out pretty far, but the downside was for guys who actually carried the weapon as it seemed to hang up on gear. Granted, this was more of a problem for some people than others. The next large mainstream evolution of the CH seemed to be the Bravo Company Gunfighter. I consider it mainstream because at the start, it took a lot of flack from guys who claimed it was just for armchair commandos and gucci gear guys. There was a lot of internet bitching on this forum along those lines. However, as more and more people began to use them, they were found to work exceptionally well. While BCM gave a lack of rollpin weakness as a major asset, the largest benefit seemed to be its overall design and how well it worked. There were a few complaints about it pinching skin, but most of us never saw that happen. BCM was one of the first to OEM their CH to other companies, and no doubt that is what helped solidify it as a solid upgrade to shooters who might not have otherwise noticed it. After BCM, there were a lot of companies who decided to jump in and get involved in the CH arena. At that time, Rainier Arms was working on a CH of their own, and worked with AXTS to manufacturer what became pretty famous in their own right as the RAPTOR CH. The RAPTOR was featured in the video game series "Call Of Duty", and even people who don't play games can see how that certainly didn't hurt the popularity of the RAPTOR. The RAPTOR seemed to be the first widely accepted ambi-CH. Rainier worked to develop a next generation CH based on feedback they had received, and while it isn't available yet, a main feature of it is the ability to use different "levers" and create a more modular CH system. I'll point out that at this time I have zero hands on time with this item. While the main three CH above were in progress, other companies were working on designs of their own. Some of which attempted to incorporate the PRI features of diverting gas. IIRC, it was PRI who developed and pulled a patent on their handle, which resulted in issues for a few companies who were hitting the CH game. I think all of us can agree that if we developed something special, we would hate to see it copied, so I'll leave any lawyer aspects or complaints at that. I don't think we can write up a thread without mentioning the long time idea of using silicone RTV or high grade silicone caulk to seal around a CH as a poor mans "gas buster". This idea has been around for a very long time. Eventually companies tried to create additional ways to divert gas, including pulling the forward assist and installing a diverter plug. Most people however are not looking to remove a forward assist, or to caulk their CHs. Due to this, the CH market continues to grow and evolve. Lastly, all CH designs are not the same, not even the ones that claim to be USGI. If you can grab your CH in your hands on each long end, and easily twist it, you probably have a subpar unit in your hands. What are your thoughts on the designs? What do you like, and what do you use? What would you like to see? If there is interest, I can post up pics, or we can all start posting pictures to help out those people who aren't familiar with the different designs. |
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Personally our company (Stickgunner LLC) weapons wear a variety of different Charging Handles, to include the USGI style, though I try to pull those out as soon as possible. The Bravo Company Gunfighter CH (#4) is what is in my duty weapon. While the RAPTOR ambi is nice, I have never had an issue doing weak hand drills, or even weak hand double feed clearance drills with a non-ambi handle. I have a few RAPTORs, and enjoy them, but they never made their way to duty weapon status.
One of the Charging Handles that I really like right now is a hidden gem that isn't seen very often, and is by Fortis. The CH is called the "Hammer", and I like it because the handle is thick and beefy. There is no or very minimal wobble when I try to twist it in my hands as there is in some other CH. The Fortis Hammer also rides exceedingly smooth, and while part of that is always going to be based on lube, wear, and buffer tube when charging the weapon, a good smooth handle certainly doesn't hurt. The Fortis Hammer is what is in the carbine of Mrs Stick, and she is more picky than most based on her ability to go through piles of items and find EXACTLY what she feels fits and works best for her. |
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I would like to see a raptor type ambidextrous handle with gas buster properties.
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I'm a lefty so as long as it's ambidextrous I'm happy. I currently have a bcm ambi gunfighter but have also used the Raptor.
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I have had several different CHs in different uppers, I currently run a Raptor in my go to rifle, i like the size at it is close to the Mod 4 BCM (my old favorite) although weak hand charges dont bother me with the Mod 4, i do like to let my friends use my rifle at the range and being a lefty that shoots righty mostly i do have a friend who is lefty and shoots lefty and just helps him out a bit. I can run either raptor or bcm and be very happy. Thanks for everything stick!!!
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I guess I'm old-school. I jumped on the PRI Gasbuster train and that's all I have.
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I've convinced myself I need a Blackwood Arms side charger for a no gas tube build.....SBR 300blk for the modern Pennsylvania deep woods deer gun.
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I just want an ambi charging handle that doesn't cost an arm and a leg and is similar to a standard milspec one.
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I like the PRI gas buster. I haven't had the urge to try anything different.
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Quoted: Quoted: I would like to see a raptor type ambidextrous handle with gas buster properties. Yup this. Another +1 here. Love the Raptor for leverage and ease of use. It also doesn't pinch me like the BCM ones did. Add gas busting properties and you'd have a winner. |
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What is it you don't care for about the BCM, or what is it you like about the PRI latch better? Just curious, stuff like this is almost always based on personal preference. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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BCM GFH with a PRI Combat latch. What is it you don't care for about the BCM, or what is it you like about the PRI latch better? Just curious, stuff like this is almost always based on personal preference. Really it's just the angle, shape, and size of the latch. I was using combat latches before the GFH came out and I prefer the added strength of the GFH, but for some reason I like the PRI latch better than the GFH Mod 4 latch. I've really got no other reason. I kinda feel like the BCM GFH is the best CH for the money, but I haven't ditched all my combat latched CH's for 'em. |
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The Canadians have been issuing an ambi CH for a while now. Wouldn't that have been the first widely accepted CH?
It seems to me the standard (post triangle) CH was fine until people started mounting optics on flat tops. Mounting optics farther back made things awkward for most, nearly impossible for some wrong handed people. The badger latches, that one giant satellite dish shaped one got popular. The subdued PRI GB seemed to later trump that due to it being more reasonable, and suppressors starting to become more mainstream. The main selling point of the Gunfighter wasn't that it was damned good, but that it was half the price of the PRI GB. That didn't hurt sales. As for ambi safetys, who knows what the future holds? I am praying that when Jesus returns he will cleanse the world of the evil, the apathetic, and the left handed. |
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What would you like to see? View Quote I have mentioned before, something I would like to see is a single sided Raptor. As well as an ambi Raptor with the right hand side lever the same size as the left... I understand why it's larger on the standard one, but I don't like it that way. |
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Charging handle mounted on the top of the fore stock forward of the upper receiver.
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My last issued rifle had one of the large cage style badger latches installed on a milspec ch. I hated it. It constantly caught on my carrier, and when we were running drills without the carrier it was jamming into my sternum. I swore off "improved" designs after that...... Until I tried a bravo company mod 4. It was big enough to rack easily in the case of a "slap, rack, bang" kind of situation, while small enough to not interfere with my gear. It has become a standard part that i put on every rifle. I have never had a single failure or reason to want to swap it. I have "sealed" a few to help with blowback from my cans, but never saw a need to buy a different CH.
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I want the BCM to have sex with a Gas Buster. I'm not into Ambi stuff, so I'd rather have Gunfighter handle with the PRI's full gas rerouting effect, and maybe the latch. I like clones, so the BCM's strength added to the PRI visuals and gas management would be titties. I know the updated handles help more than the original design, but I still prefer the PRI overall on my suppressed rifles.
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Another +1 here. Love the Raptor for leverage and ease of use. It also doesn't pinch me like the BCM ones did. Add gas busting properties and you'd have a winner. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I would like to see a raptor type ambidextrous handle with gas buster properties. Yup this. Another +1 here. Love the Raptor for leverage and ease of use. It also doesn't pinch me like the BCM ones did. Add gas busting properties and you'd have a winner. As a lefty, I have to agree but, RTV does the trick for me and I don't mind applying it to any of my CH's. |
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Dropped all my CH for BCM, and then dropped all those for Raptor. As a lefty, it's perfect.
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i really like the idea ranier arms had about customizing. lets, us set things up just how we want it.
personally i'm ok with a standard charging handle. there's obviously better solutions out there, but the regular ones work well enough. ambi, gas buster kind of deal, and the customizable pieces, and everything is golden. |
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After using a BCM/Vltor CH I had no desire to get anything else. I can't remember what size I have, but it is a first generation.
Edit: I don't shoot suppressed. |
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I have:
standard Gunfighter medium Core 15 V2 I also run a bead of silicone in the gap at the top rear of the charging handle. This allows me to shoot longer before the schmutz builds up noticeably on my eye protection. The newer Gunfighters come with a raised portion at the rear that probably addresses this as well. Both the non-standard CHs have larger, textured surfaces. I am okay with the amount that they stick out, but wouldn't care for more. I do like that both add surface area vertically. I prefer the Core 15 simply for the coating. |
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I like the "standard" type for looks. However, all my AR's that I actually USE have a Raptor. IMHO, there is no excuse to not have an ambi CH. Being able to charge with your right hand is beneficial when "chamber checking" and when charging while prone. NEITHER of which is less than insanely awkward with the "standard".
Raptor all the way. |
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I'm left handed, and I love precision ARs ( i.e. 18-20 inch barrels) with scopes, especially for hunting 'yotes. The PRI gas buster does a phenomenal job bleeding gases but sucks as a lefty. I made the change to BCM and never looked back. What I want is a gasbuster that is lefty friendly. I find the BCM does better than a regular mil spec charging handle in venting gases though.
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I'm fine with the BCM mod 4. I just wish it came with a little more protection from gas.
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How about something like the Raptor or BCM Gunfighter Medium (my fav) w/a black nitride finish?
Tomac |
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I've only ever used stock charging handles until recently when I bought a raptor. I plan on using raptors on every AR I have from now on unless I find something I like better. I just love the way the raptor feels and how easy it is to use with either hand. While I don't use a suppressor, I can see where having a "gas buster" option could come in handy for those that do.
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This is what I am enamored with, use it on all my suppressed ar's http://armageddontactical.com/products/charging-handle http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0249/1427/products/GMS-15-7_1024x1024.jpg?v=1400852208 View Quote This, but with an actual latch instead of a push button. |
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The only desire I have is one that allows a lefty to shoot suppressed without taking a gas money shot. Ambi would be cool too. I realize a gas block has a lot to do with this also.
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This is what I am enamored with, use it on all my suppressed ar's http://armageddontactical.com/products/charging-handle http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0249/1427/products/GMS-15-7_1024x1024.jpg?v=1400852208 View Quote Anyone have any info on these? I'm kinda interested. |
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Anyone have any info on these? I'm kinda interested. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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This is what I am enamored with, use it on all my suppressed ar's http://armageddontactical.com/products/charging-handle http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0249/1427/products/GMS-15-7_1024x1024.jpg?v=1400852208 Anyone have any info on these? I'm kinda interested. I have one and love it so far, my 5.56 suppressor is in jail right now but all the reviews I've seen on it says they are GTG. |
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For me, the main goal of the charging handle is for it to be easy to grasp in even the harshest conditions and not have to worry about slippage. Almost all the newer charging handles from BCM to Fortis to the Raptor do that, and I really appreciate it.
The PRI's latch was a bit too slippy for me (even with the newer latch with serrations) so I replaced mine with the LMT flat faced latch they've got on their "tactical" charging handle. As for the gas busting functions, the little channel doesn't really do much redirecting... while the gap between the charging handle and lower receiver lets carbon infused gunk right onto your face LOL! For suppressor use, I prefer tight fitting charging handles like the BCM and others with a RTV mod, and the AR Gas Vent. It's the combo that works best after all my experimentation. I also really like how newer cans account for gas port pressures/blowback/shootability and are no longer chasing the decibel meter. |
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Another +1 here. Love the Raptor for leverage and ease of use. It also doesn't pinch me like the BCM ones did. Add gas busting properties and you'd have a winner. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I would like to see a raptor type ambidextrous handle with gas buster properties. Yup this. Another +1 here. Love the Raptor for leverage and ease of use. It also doesn't pinch me like the BCM ones did. Add gas busting properties and you'd have a winner. This. |
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For me, my preference is a BCM Mod 4. I think it's the perfect solution to my applications. I prefer ambi options where I can and have even purchased a Mod A44, but you'll find that almost all of my rifles still wear a Mod 4. My wife has a Raptor and my duty rifle clone still has a standard Colt Mil-spec, but everything else aside from my .308 has BCM. I'm heavily invested in them. I've even bought them for other family members to put in their rifles. All of my clone builds aside from my duty rifle clone got Mod 5s so they would retain the appearance while still giving me the smoothness of the BCM I've come to love.
I'm probably going to buy a Mod 4 7.62 for my .308, but for the time being, I picked up a Strike Industries extended latch to run temporarily. It was less than $10. I like that the face of the latch is a large, flat surface without being too overly large and that the texturing allows for grip without being too aggressive. It also doesn't dig in my chest while the rifle is slung. I get a lot of play in the handle and it's not as smooth to charge by just grabbing on the latch side, but that is a problem with the handle (not the latch) and will be remedied when I upgrade the handle. I would love to feel the Strike Industries .308 CH in a rifle, but in all honesty, I'll still probably fall back on what I know works - the BCM. |
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I currently only have TacOps1 charging handles on my AR's. They are one of the most overlooked IMO. Great for lefty's and a HUGE area to grab
TacOps1 |
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I prefer the RAPTOR charging handle. I like that I can use my palm to charge the rifle even around a scope. I tried the large and medium latch BCM but for me, the RAPTOR felt smoother, easier to use, and snagged a bit less on clothes and slings. Also, my OCD thinks the symmetric design is inherently more visually appealing, even though my rifle is covered in dings and scratches.
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I really like the Mod 4 BCM. It just feels right.
Its tough, doesn't flex much and has a great latch on it. I tried a Raptor and a few other "Premium" CHs and lots of stock ones. You can't beat the price of the Gunfighter series. I use a Mod 3 BCM on my scoped AR, but still prefer the Mod 4. YMMV |
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There is lots of talk about Charging Handles (CH), what works, what doesn't work, and the different things people would like to see changed. My own opinion of CHs is based on my MIL, LEO, and time as an instructor, in addition to the work done in this industry. While I'm more than happy to talk about that, I'm more interested in what people think makes for a good or bad CH, and what they think could or should be changed. This thread will no doubt be read by a lot of companies and industry people, so please share your honest thoughts. Don't bother to share opinions that are stuff you read on the internet, there is already enough misinformation floating around without adding that stuff! In my mind, the first decent latch that came out (mainstream), was the PRI Gasbuster. They were smart enough to use a larger latch, but also to thicken areas up, and create a diversion for gas which was of help to guys using cans/ suppressor/ silencers. The next step that came along was the latches which you could add onto your existing CH. I can't recall the name, but there was one which seemed to reign supreme for awhile. It was great for optics as it stood out pretty far, but the downside was for guys who actually carried the weapon as it seemed to hang up on gear. Granted, this was more of a problem for some people than others. The next large mainstream evolution of the CH seemed to be the Bravo Company Gunfighter. I consider it mainstream because at the start, it took a lot of flack from guys who claimed it was just for armchair commandos and gucci gear guys. There was a lot of internet bitching on this forum along those lines. However, as more and more people began to use them, they were found to work exceptionally well. While BCM gave a lack of rollpin weakness as a major asset, the largest benefit seemed to be its overall design and how well it worked. There were a few complaints about it pinching skin, but most of us never saw that happen. BCM was one of the first to OEM their CH to other companies, and no doubt that is what helped solidify it as a solid upgrade to shooters who might not have otherwise noticed it. After BCM, there were a lot of companies who decided to jump in and get involved in the CH arena. At that time, Rainier Arms was working on a CH of their own, and worked with AXTS to manufacturer what became pretty famous in their own right as the RAPTOR CH. The RAPTOR was featured in the video game series "Call Of Duty", and even people who don't play games can see how that certainly didn't hurt the popularity of the RAPTOR. The RAPTOR seemed to be the first widely accepted ambi-CH. Rainier worked to develop a next generation CH based on feedback they had received, and while it isn't available yet, a main feature of it is the ability to use different "levers" and create a more modular CH system. I'll point out that at this time I have zero hands on time with this item. While the main three CH above were in progress, other companies were working on designs of their own. Some of which attempted to incorporate the PRI features of diverting gas. IIRC, it was PRI who developed and pulled a patent on their handle, which resulted in issues for a few companies who were hitting the CH game. I think all of us can agree that if we developed something special, we would hate to see it copied, so I'll leave any lawyer aspects or complaints at that. I don't think we can write up a thread without mentioning the long time idea of using silicone RTV or high grade silicone caulk to seal around a CH as a poor mans "gas buster". This idea has been around for a very long time. Eventually companies tried to create additional ways to divert gas, including pulling the forward assist and installing a diverter plug. Most people however are not looking to remove a forward assist, or to caulk their CHs. Due to this, the CH market continues to grow and evolve. Lastly, all CH designs are not the same, not even the ones that claim to be USGI. If you can grab your CH in your hands on each long end, and easily twist it, you probably have a subpar unit in your hands. What are your thoughts on the designs? What do you like, and what do you use? What would you like to see? If there is interest, I can post up pics, or we can all start posting pictures to help out those people who aren't familiar with the different designs. View Quote I love the Gasbuster. I use it on every AR that I build, and have for years. It just feels good. |
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Ideally, I'd like a steel charging handle (like the Power Custom, which I do own) with a handle contour like the BCM gunfighter or PRI Gasbuster, with a latch sized between the Model 4 and 5 (between small and medium) with a checkered finish on the latch. I wouldn't mind a small projection beyond the mill spec on the non-latch side (which is sort of what the Fortis Hammer brings to the equation) that I could get a finger on. It should be black nitride finished.
I don't need the ambidextrous feature, and I sort of think that the Raptor fills that niche best. The rest all seem like patent avoidance gimmicks. I want something that feels like part of the fire control group, like the trigger and safety, and steel just feels different. It is of course heavier and stronger too. I had it explained once that metal has a grain, and aluminum's is sort of coarse? And of course the sandblasted/anodized finish common on the aluminum itself adds to the feeling of how some of the handles feel like they stick to fabric or skin. (Note that this is one thing that I think all of the really popular companies have nailed, BCM's charging handles seem almost slick, because of the finish, even old surplus colt M16 handles are better then some of the new "milspec" ones though). Honestly if there is a harder/stronger aluminum then 6061 or 7075 that might be something that's not in the market in any way that would be another plus. |
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I would love a Raptor with gas buster hole.
I'm going to make my own. |
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This, but with an actual latch instead of a push button. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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This is what I am enamored with, use it on all my suppressed ar's http://armageddontactical.com/products/charging-handle http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0249/1427/products/GMS-15-7_1024x1024.jpg?v=1400852208 This, but with an actual latch instead of a push button. The button is not used for normal charging, it is there as a manual release in the event that the bolt is locked back. With the bolt forward/closed the latch release is automatic as you pull back. |
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Mega Slidelock and SLR Renegade are my favorites. The Raptor is also nice. I don't use non-ambi charging handles.
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