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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/17/2015 10:53:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By franklinarmory:
Dear AR15.COM Community. Franklin Armory has been waiting to become an AR15.COM advertiser. We hope that we may be able to be one some day soon. However, the rules require that I must refrain from discussing pricing, availability, where to order, or any other non-technical details. It was very interesting to read the 14 pages of responses on this thread. I see where many of you were anticipating our release and were greatly disappointed by the outcome. I hear your concerns loud and clear. Unfortunately, it would not be safe for us to launch these triggers as a stand alone accessories at this time. The tolerances are tight, though manageable. Pre-production lots have gone together very smoothly. However, moving into the production phase, we need more data points to ensure that production units always work the same when they get into our consumer's hands. It is my responsibility to ensure that each BFS and RFS not only bench tests well, but it must also perform well under live fire circumstances where various harmonics may come into play. The easiest way to have the patent pending BFS and RFS removed from the market by the ATF would be to allow something out of spec to slip through. Given the chance to re do the release of these products, we still wouldn't jeopardize our customer's safety or our reputation by offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory to start. Every trigger needs to be perfect right from the beginning. The best way for me to guarantee that is to actually test it with a full magazine. It shouldn't take too long to get the statistical data necessary for us to feel comfortable with offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory, and we look forward to doing so. I'm willing to bet you will like it. Respectfully, Jay Jacobson President Franklin Armory Sorry, but NO, I'm not buying this story. So you're telling us that, for PREMIUM price, your product is NOW being sold as "trial" versions? If you believe them to be fully ready... then you'd sell them openly (separately). If you are not SURE about them (quality wise, reliability wise)... you shouldn't be selling them at all. No, I believe the REAL reason is that you want to sell more rifles, AND you want to be able to track them down IF they are unapproved. That's all fine and good (understandable), but let's be honest here. Sorry if my post sounds harsh, it's just that your story does not make sense to me. |
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Posted: 9/17/2015 11:04:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Wangstang]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MaverickAA:
Sorry, but NO, I'm not buying this story. So you're telling us that, for PREMIUM price, your product is NOW being sold as "trial" versions? If you believe them to be fully ready... then you'd sell them openly (separately). If you are not SURE about them (quality wise, reliability wise)... you shouldn't be selling them at all. No, I believe the REAL reason is that you want to sell more rifles, AND you want to be able to track them down IF they are unapproved. That's all fine and good (understandable), but let's be honest here. Sorry if my post sounds harsh, it's just that your story does not make sense to me. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MaverickAA:
Originally Posted By franklinarmory:
Dear AR15.COM Community. Franklin Armory has been waiting to become an AR15.COM advertiser. We hope that we may be able to be one some day soon. However, the rules require that I must refrain from discussing pricing, availability, where to order, or any other non-technical details. It was very interesting to read the 14 pages of responses on this thread. I see where many of you were anticipating our release and were greatly disappointed by the outcome. I hear your concerns loud and clear. Unfortunately, it would not be safe for us to launch these triggers as a stand alone accessories at this time. The tolerances are tight, though manageable. Pre-production lots have gone together very smoothly. However, moving into the production phase, we need more data points to ensure that production units always work the same when they get into our consumer's hands. It is my responsibility to ensure that each BFS and RFS not only bench tests well, but it must also perform well under live fire circumstances where various harmonics may come into play. The easiest way to have the patent pending BFS and RFS removed from the market by the ATF would be to allow something out of spec to slip through. Given the chance to re do the release of these products, we still wouldn't jeopardize our customer's safety or our reputation by offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory to start. Every trigger needs to be perfect right from the beginning. The best way for me to guarantee that is to actually test it with a full magazine. It shouldn't take too long to get the statistical data necessary for us to feel comfortable with offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory, and we look forward to doing so. I'm willing to bet you will like it. Respectfully, Jay Jacobson President Franklin Armory Sorry, but NO, I'm not buying this story. So you're telling us that, for PREMIUM price, your product is NOW being sold as "trial" versions? If you believe them to be fully ready... then you'd sell them openly (separately). If you are not SURE about them (quality wise, reliability wise)... you shouldn't be selling them at all. No, I believe the REAL reason is that you want to sell more rifles, AND you want to be able to track them down IF they are unapproved. That's all fine and good (understandable), but let's be honest here. Sorry if my post sounds harsh, it's just that your story does not make sense to me. There's no reason to get into an argument with Franklin Armory a public forum about their intent to distribute a product. What I took from the post was they want to be able to say that every trigger was test fired and verified to function properly and they sold them in an assembled format to ensure that there was no question about their ability to function as sold. From a liability stand point, for a new product concept, it makes perfect sense. Once they can say they've assembled 500-1000 milspec machined lowers with their triggers installed with no modifications/tuning required and they have recorded video footage of all assembly and test firing on file, they will have a nice file package to walk into court with if someone were to claim their rifle went full auto or made some other similar claim. Wes |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/17/2015 11:17:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wangstang:
There's no reason to get into an argument with Franklin Armory a public forum about their intent to distribute a product. What I took from the post was they want to be able to say that every trigger was test fired and verified to function properly and they sold them in an assembled format to ensure that there was no question about their ability to function as sold. From a liability stand point, for a new product concept, it makes perfect sense. Once they can say they've assembled 500-1000 milspec machined lowers with their triggers installed with no modifications/tuning required and they have recorded video footage of all assembly and test firing on file, they will have a nice file package to walk into court with if someone were to claim their rifle went full auto or made some other similar claim. Wes Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wangstang:
Originally Posted By MaverickAA:
Originally Posted By franklinarmory:
Dear AR15.COM Community. Franklin Armory has been waiting to become an AR15.COM advertiser. We hope that we may be able to be one some day soon. However, the rules require that I must refrain from discussing pricing, availability, where to order, or any other non-technical details. It was very interesting to read the 14 pages of responses on this thread. I see where many of you were anticipating our release and were greatly disappointed by the outcome. I hear your concerns loud and clear. Unfortunately, it would not be safe for us to launch these triggers as a stand alone accessories at this time. The tolerances are tight, though manageable. Pre-production lots have gone together very smoothly. However, moving into the production phase, we need more data points to ensure that production units always work the same when they get into our consumer's hands. It is my responsibility to ensure that each BFS and RFS not only bench tests well, but it must also perform well under live fire circumstances where various harmonics may come into play. The easiest way to have the patent pending BFS and RFS removed from the market by the ATF would be to allow something out of spec to slip through. Given the chance to re do the release of these products, we still wouldn't jeopardize our customer's safety or our reputation by offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory to start. Every trigger needs to be perfect right from the beginning. The best way for me to guarantee that is to actually test it with a full magazine. It shouldn't take too long to get the statistical data necessary for us to feel comfortable with offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory, and we look forward to doing so. I'm willing to bet you will like it. Respectfully, Jay Jacobson President Franklin Armory Sorry, but NO, I'm not buying this story. So you're telling us that, for PREMIUM price, your product is NOW being sold as "trial" versions? If you believe them to be fully ready... then you'd sell them openly (separately). If you are not SURE about them (quality wise, reliability wise)... you shouldn't be selling them at all. No, I believe the REAL reason is that you want to sell more rifles, AND you want to be able to track them down IF they are unapproved. That's all fine and good (understandable), but let's be honest here. Sorry if my post sounds harsh, it's just that your story does not make sense to me. There's no reason to get into an argument with Franklin Armory a public forum about their intent to distribute a product. What I took from the post was they want to be able to say that every trigger was test fired and verified to function properly and they sold them in an assembled format to ensure that there was no question about their ability to function as sold. From a liability stand point, for a new product concept, it makes perfect sense. Once they can say they've assembled 500-1000 milspec machined lowers with their triggers installed with no modifications/tuning required and they have recorded video footage of all assembly and test firing on file, they will have a nice file package to walk into court with if someone were to claim their rifle went full auto or made some other similar claim. Wes I'm not starting an argument with them (yes, on a public forum, as are they). I'm questioning the logic of selling something they are not sure enough to consider "ready" (and premium $ for it as well?). Where as my other theories would make perfect sense for this style of "limited run" traceable product. As I said, I didn't mean to be harsh, I just have a hard time believing that story. Stop thinking I'm bashing them (I am NOT, and would happily try one out). They can answer for themselves, they don't need you as their defender. |
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Posted: 9/17/2015 11:23:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MaverickAA:
I'm not starting an argument with them (yes, on a public forum, as are they). I'm questioning the logic of selling something they are not sure enough to consider "ready" (and premium $ for it as well?). Where as my other theories would make perfect sense for this style of "limited run" traceable product. As I said, I didn't mean to be harsh, I just have a hard time believing that story. Stop thinking I'm bashing them (I am NOT, and would happily try one out). They can answer for themselves, they don't need you as their defender. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MaverickAA:
Originally Posted By Wangstang:
Originally Posted By MaverickAA:
Originally Posted By franklinarmory:
Dear AR15.COM Community. Franklin Armory has been waiting to become an AR15.COM advertiser. We hope that we may be able to be one some day soon. However, the rules require that I must refrain from discussing pricing, availability, where to order, or any other non-technical details. It was very interesting to read the 14 pages of responses on this thread. I see where many of you were anticipating our release and were greatly disappointed by the outcome. I hear your concerns loud and clear. Unfortunately, it would not be safe for us to launch these triggers as a stand alone accessories at this time. The tolerances are tight, though manageable. Pre-production lots have gone together very smoothly. However, moving into the production phase, we need more data points to ensure that production units always work the same when they get into our consumer's hands. It is my responsibility to ensure that each BFS and RFS not only bench tests well, but it must also perform well under live fire circumstances where various harmonics may come into play. The easiest way to have the patent pending BFS and RFS removed from the market by the ATF would be to allow something out of spec to slip through. Given the chance to re do the release of these products, we still wouldn't jeopardize our customer's safety or our reputation by offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory to start. Every trigger needs to be perfect right from the beginning. The best way for me to guarantee that is to actually test it with a full magazine. It shouldn't take too long to get the statistical data necessary for us to feel comfortable with offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory, and we look forward to doing so. I'm willing to bet you will like it. Respectfully, Jay Jacobson President Franklin Armory Sorry, but NO, I'm not buying this story. So you're telling us that, for PREMIUM price, your product is NOW being sold as "trial" versions? If you believe them to be fully ready... then you'd sell them openly (separately). If you are not SURE about them (quality wise, reliability wise)... you shouldn't be selling them at all. No, I believe the REAL reason is that you want to sell more rifles, AND you want to be able to track them down IF they are unapproved. That's all fine and good (understandable), but let's be honest here. Sorry if my post sounds harsh, it's just that your story does not make sense to me. There's no reason to get into an argument with Franklin Armory a public forum about their intent to distribute a product. What I took from the post was they want to be able to say that every trigger was test fired and verified to function properly and they sold them in an assembled format to ensure that there was no question about their ability to function as sold. From a liability stand point, for a new product concept, it makes perfect sense. Once they can say they've assembled 500-1000 milspec machined lowers with their triggers installed with no modifications/tuning required and they have recorded video footage of all assembly and test firing on file, they will have a nice file package to walk into court with if someone were to claim their rifle went full auto or made some other similar claim. Wes I'm not starting an argument with them (yes, on a public forum, as are they). I'm questioning the logic of selling something they are not sure enough to consider "ready" (and premium $ for it as well?). Where as my other theories would make perfect sense for this style of "limited run" traceable product. As I said, I didn't mean to be harsh, I just have a hard time believing that story. Stop thinking I'm bashing them (I am NOT, and would happily try one out). They can answer for themselves, they don't need you as their defender. How are they any more traceable? If I buy a rifle, remove the trigger and sell it at the gun show two days latter because I want to make money off the trigger and I've already got a Geissele to put in the gun, how is that traceable? Heck, what if I buy the gun, fill the 4473 out, walk out the door and my truck won't run so I end up selling the gun in a face to face transaction later that afternoon to pay the repair bill...how Is that traceable? At first glance your theory seems like it could be such an outstanding idea but even if the triggers are going into registered SBR NFA lowers, the trigger assembly could still be removed and sold with no way to "trace" where the trigger is at. Wes |
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Posted: 9/17/2015 11:50:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mr_Smiley]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By franklinarmory: Dear AR15.COM Community. Franklin Armory has been waiting to become an AR15.COM advertiser. We hope that we may be able to be one some day soon. However, the rules require that I must refrain from discussing pricing, availability, where to order, or any other non-technical details. It was very interesting to read the 14 pages of responses on this thread. I see where many of you were anticipating our release and were greatly disappointed by the outcome. I hear your concerns loud and clear. Unfortunately, it would not be safe for us to launch these triggers as a stand alone accessories at this time. The tolerances are tight, though manageable. Pre-production lots have gone together very smoothly. However, moving into the production phase, we need more data points to ensure that production units always work the same when they get into our consumer's hands. It is my responsibility to ensure that each BFS and RFS not only bench tests well, but it must also perform well under live fire circumstances where various harmonics may come into play. The easiest way to have the patent pending BFS and RFS removed from the market by the ATF would be to allow something out of spec to slip through. Given the chance to re do the release of these products, we still wouldn't jeopardize our customer's safety or our reputation by offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory to start. Every trigger needs to be perfect right from the beginning. The best way for me to guarantee that is to actually test it with a full magazine. It shouldn't take too long to get the statistical data necessary for us to feel comfortable with offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory, and we look forward to doing so. I'm willing to bet you will like it. Respectfully, Jay Jacobson President Franklin Armory Thank you for taking the time to come in here. I have a question that I hope you can answer. Why is the BFS not being sold in WA and OR state? As far as I know there are no laws that would prohibit this trigger in either state. |
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Posted: 9/18/2015 12:37:18 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By franklinarmory:
Dear AR15.COM Community. Franklin Armory has been waiting to become an AR15.COM advertiser. We hope that we may be able to be one some day soon. However, the rules require that I must refrain from discussing pricing, availability, where to order, or any other non-technical details. It was very interesting to read the 14 pages of responses on this thread. I see where many of you were anticipating our release and were greatly disappointed by the outcome. I hear your concerns loud and clear. Unfortunately, it would not be safe for us to launch these triggers as a stand alone accessories at this time. The tolerances are tight, though manageable. Pre-production lots have gone together very smoothly. However, moving into the production phase, we need more data points to ensure that production units always work the same when they get into our consumer's hands. It is my responsibility to ensure that each BFS and RFS not only bench tests well, but it must also perform well under live fire circumstances where various harmonics may come into play. The easiest way to have the patent pending BFS and RFS removed from the market by the ATF would be to allow something out of spec to slip through. Given the chance to re do the release of these products, we still wouldn't jeopardize our customer's safety or our reputation by offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory to start. Every trigger needs to be perfect right from the beginning. The best way for me to guarantee that is to actually test it with a full magazine. It shouldn't take too long to get the statistical data necessary for us to feel comfortable with offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory, and we look forward to doing so. I'm willing to bet you will like it. Respectfully, Jay Jacobson President Franklin Armory Glad to hear from you guys Looking forward to more info |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2015 1:52:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wangstang:
How are they any more traceable? If I buy a rifle, remove the trigger and sell it at the gun show two days latter because I want to make money off the trigger and I've already got a Geissele to put in the gun, how is that traceable? Heck, what if I buy the gun, fill the 4473 out, walk out the door and my truck won't run so I end up selling the gun in a face to face transaction later that afternoon to pay the repair bill...how Is that traceable? At first glance your theory seems like it could be such an outstanding idea but even if the triggers are going into registered SBR NFA lowers, the trigger assembly could still be removed and sold with no way to "trace" where the trigger is at. Wes Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wangstang:
Originally Posted By MaverickAA:
Originally Posted By Wangstang:
Originally Posted By MaverickAA:
Originally Posted By franklinarmory:
Dear AR15.COM Community. Franklin Armory has been waiting to become an AR15.COM advertiser. We hope that we may be able to be one some day soon. However, the rules require that I must refrain from discussing pricing, availability, where to order, or any other non-technical details. It was very interesting to read the 14 pages of responses on this thread. I see where many of you were anticipating our release and were greatly disappointed by the outcome. I hear your concerns loud and clear. Unfortunately, it would not be safe for us to launch these triggers as a stand alone accessories at this time. The tolerances are tight, though manageable. Pre-production lots have gone together very smoothly. However, moving into the production phase, we need more data points to ensure that production units always work the same when they get into our consumer's hands. It is my responsibility to ensure that each BFS and RFS not only bench tests well, but it must also perform well under live fire circumstances where various harmonics may come into play. The easiest way to have the patent pending BFS and RFS removed from the market by the ATF would be to allow something out of spec to slip through. Given the chance to re do the release of these products, we still wouldn't jeopardize our customer's safety or our reputation by offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory to start. Every trigger needs to be perfect right from the beginning. The best way for me to guarantee that is to actually test it with a full magazine. It shouldn't take too long to get the statistical data necessary for us to feel comfortable with offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory, and we look forward to doing so. I'm willing to bet you will like it. Respectfully, Jay Jacobson President Franklin Armory Sorry, but NO, I'm not buying this story. So you're telling us that, for PREMIUM price, your product is NOW being sold as "trial" versions? If you believe them to be fully ready... then you'd sell them openly (separately). If you are not SURE about them (quality wise, reliability wise)... you shouldn't be selling them at all. No, I believe the REAL reason is that you want to sell more rifles, AND you want to be able to track them down IF they are unapproved. That's all fine and good (understandable), but let's be honest here. Sorry if my post sounds harsh, it's just that your story does not make sense to me. There's no reason to get into an argument with Franklin Armory a public forum about their intent to distribute a product. What I took from the post was they want to be able to say that every trigger was test fired and verified to function properly and they sold them in an assembled format to ensure that there was no question about their ability to function as sold. From a liability stand point, for a new product concept, it makes perfect sense. Once they can say they've assembled 500-1000 milspec machined lowers with their triggers installed with no modifications/tuning required and they have recorded video footage of all assembly and test firing on file, they will have a nice file package to walk into court with if someone were to claim their rifle went full auto or made some other similar claim. Wes I'm not starting an argument with them (yes, on a public forum, as are they). I'm questioning the logic of selling something they are not sure enough to consider "ready" (and premium $ for it as well?). Where as my other theories would make perfect sense for this style of "limited run" traceable product. As I said, I didn't mean to be harsh, I just have a hard time believing that story. Stop thinking I'm bashing them (I am NOT, and would happily try one out). They can answer for themselves, they don't need you as their defender. How are they any more traceable? If I buy a rifle, remove the trigger and sell it at the gun show two days latter because I want to make money off the trigger and I've already got a Geissele to put in the gun, how is that traceable? Heck, what if I buy the gun, fill the 4473 out, walk out the door and my truck won't run so I end up selling the gun in a face to face transaction later that afternoon to pay the repair bill...how Is that traceable? At first glance your theory seems like it could be such an outstanding idea but even if the triggers are going into registered SBR NFA lowers, the trigger assembly could still be removed and sold with no way to "trace" where the trigger is at. Wes I'm not saying it's a fail safe, it's just a "best effort" on their part. If you return a product NOT in it's original condition, it's probably not "refundable". So it someone were to swap out (or keep) the original (factory) trigger... it would NOT be returned "as sold", thus non refundable. But if someone wanted the best odds of having said product returned, it would be of a traceable nature (such as lowers are), and their best shot at getting those original parts back would be to offer a refund for said original parts. Thank you for not bashing me for questioning their motives. The logic of there "limited run" just eludes me and I was questioning that. I did not mean to put FA down, nor bash their product (hell, I'd own that BFS for a reasonable price!). I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the story here. From a marketing standpoint, I can totally see what/why they are doing. However, that totally differs from the reason they gave. I'm sorry if this/my posts came off the wrong way (sometimes my being direct does not have the effect I intended!). I would LOVE to try this system out. I absolutely do not refute that. The only thing I'm questioning, now, is their reasoning (as they've stated) for the "lowers/rifles" only "limited run" thing. I'm also sorry if I seemed like I was coming at you, as I wasn't. I hope you understand why I was asking what I was. 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2015 4:06:05 AM EDT
[#8]
guys, w tolerances, tolerance stacking etc, triggers can be different in different lowers. that is why the best single stage triggers, where you have the least margin between safety and performance, are hand fitted in that lower.
we all have little to no idea just how tight the tolerances have to be to get these triggers to work, most inportantly to NOT fail in a way that the atf could use against us in our chance at having a substantial ROF increase without having to pay big bucks in the closed registry. Naturally, there are alot more moving parts here, both mechanicallt and legally.. if just one bubba wescos their trigger pack and it starts running full auto we can probably kiss this whole deal good bye. in the context of the design and in their heretofore limited sample size they are not confident that the trigger, as currently designed, will work as intended 100% in any* AR lower. The best way for this to. move forward is for early adopters with mo'money buy these hand fitted and extra QC'd units at a premiuum so that FA has the funds to surmount any future technical and legal hurdles. remember, they didnt wait for approval like sheep. "whhat is not prohibitted is permitted" as the saying goes, so having given an opportunity for gov to issue a prohibition they went ahead. remember, these are the people we have to thank for the non nfa ar pistol "firearm." |
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Posted: 9/18/2015 4:28:36 AM EDT
[#9]
How about we stay kinda professional here, this isnt GD
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USA
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Posted: 9/18/2015 10:21:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By williewvr:
If your post wasn't so close to the one in the taccon thread I wouldn't have said anything. In that thread IIRC a "new" account said about the same thing. Turned out to be a shill for taccon. I wasn't sure if you were doing it as satire, reality was being stranger than fiction, or if there was a chance you were shilling for Franklin. I know there are many low count poster on the forum but usually they don't place themselves in positions such as this. If it wasn't your intention to shill for them then I owe you an apology, I'll reserve it till I see you report, but I'll happily give it if the trigger turns out to be worth it and you review matches reality. I've been a member since Nov 2012 and you think I set up an account 3 years ago to come in and shill for a product that wasn't even invented when my account was created? |
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Posted: 9/18/2015 1:58:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Glad yall are gonna get it right the first time. Keep up the good work and keep us updated
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NM, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2015 3:09:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Thanks a lot for chiming in, Jay! Can you at least tell us that the trigger has indeed been given the go-ahead from the bastards at the ATF?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2015 3:17:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ControlledChaos999:
Thanks a lot for chiming in, Jay! Can you at least tell us that the trigger has indeed been given the go-ahead from the bastards at the ATF? remember, in western legal tradition, "that which is not prohibited is pemitted," that is to say if it ain't illegal its legal. it is up to gov to say that something is illegal, not for us to get permission to do somehting. They may never get a (begrudgin) determination from atf saying that it is legal. But laccking a prohibitive determination, especially after these are shipped to the market for a while in some volume will be tacit non dis-approval. The only way we might get an assertion from gov that this is legal in a court ruling. If I had the monle to drop on this right now I would not be anxious abot it. Gov has already show that w/ a normal ar trigger malfunctioning they can convince a jury to send a guy up a river, so how is this worse?? |
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Posted: 9/19/2015 1:24:18 AM EDT
[#14]
I guess since the announcement of the product it would be safe for Franklin Armory to re-upload the videos they had showing its function.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 9/19/2015 2:32:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JSmithXYY:
guys, w tolerances, tolerance stacking etc, triggers can be different in different lowers. that is why the best single stage triggers, where you have the least margin between safety and performance, are hand fitted in that lower. we all have little to no idea just how tight the tolerances have to be to get these triggers to work, most inportantly to NOT fail in a way that the atf could use against us in our chance at having a substantial ROF increase without having to pay big bucks in the closed registry. Naturally, there are alot more moving parts here, both mechanicallt and legally.. if just one bubba wescos their trigger pack and it starts running full auto we can probably kiss this whole deal good bye. in the context of the design and in their heretofore limited sample size they are not confident that the trigger, as currently designed, will work as intended 100% in any* AR lower. The best way for this to. move forward is for early adopters with mo'money buy these hand fitted and extra QC'd units at a premiuum so that FA has the funds to surmount any future technical and legal hurdles. remember, they didnt wait for approval like sheep. "whhat is not prohibitted is permitted" as the saying goes, so having given an opportunity for gov to issue a prohibition they went ahead. remember, these are the people we have to thank for the non nfa ar pistol "firearm." Yep. I can't believe anyone that has ever worked on more than one AR wouldn't immediately see that this was absolutely the case. Weird. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/20/2015 3:53:38 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By franklinarmory: Dear AR15.COM Community. Franklin Armory has been waiting to become an AR15.COM advertiser. We hope that we may be able to be one some day soon. However, the rules require that I must refrain from discussing pricing, availability, where to order, or any other non-technical details. It was very interesting to read the 14 pages of responses on this thread. I see where many of you were anticipating our release and were greatly disappointed by the outcome. I hear your concerns loud and clear. Unfortunately, it would not be safe for us to launch these triggers as a stand alone accessories at this time. The tolerances are tight, though manageable. Pre-production lots have gone together very smoothly. However, moving into the production phase, we need more data points to ensure that production units always work the same when they get into our consumer's hands. It is my responsibility to ensure that each BFS and RFS not only bench tests well, but it must also perform well under live fire circumstances where various harmonics may come into play. The easiest way to have the patent pending BFS and RFS removed from the market by the ATF would be to allow something out of spec to slip through. Given the chance to re do the release of these products, we still wouldn't jeopardize our customer's safety or our reputation by offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory to start. Every trigger needs to be perfect right from the beginning. The best way for me to guarantee that is to actually test it with a full magazine. It shouldn't take too long to get the statistical data necessary for us to feel comfortable with offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory, and we look forward to doing so. I'm willing to bet you will like it. Respectfully, Jay Jacobson President Franklin Armory Frankly you shouldn't have released any info on this trigger until it was very close to release. Like I'm talking shipping in a few weeks type of ready. You really jumped the gun and while I'm sure it will still sell when it's out, I was looking forward to it and now I'm lost interested and just gone with a SSA and SSA-E. I think you guys would be hard pressed to sell complete guns or lowers, I know even if I was still in the market, I'd just want the trigger. |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 7:26:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By franklinarmory:
Dear AR15.COM Community. Franklin Armory has been waiting to become an AR15.COM advertiser. We hope that we may be able to be one some day soon. However, the rules require that I must refrain from discussing pricing, availability, where to order, or any other non-technical details. It was very interesting to read the 14 pages of responses on this thread. I see where many of you were anticipating our release and were greatly disappointed by the outcome. I hear your concerns loud and clear. Unfortunately, it would not be safe for us to launch these triggers as a stand alone accessories at this time. The tolerances are tight, though manageable. Pre-production lots have gone together very smoothly. However, moving into the production phase, we need more data points to ensure that production units always work the same when they get into our consumer's hands. It is my responsibility to ensure that each BFS and RFS not only bench tests well, but it must also perform well under live fire circumstances where various harmonics may come into play. The easiest way to have the patent pending BFS and RFS removed from the market by the ATF would be to allow something out of spec to slip through. Given the chance to re do the release of these products, we still wouldn't jeopardize our customer's safety or our reputation by offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory to start. Every trigger needs to be perfect right from the beginning. The best way for me to guarantee that is to actually test it with a full magazine. It shouldn't take too long to get the statistical data necessary for us to feel comfortable with offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory, and we look forward to doing so. I'm willing to bet you will like it. Respectfully, Jay Jacobson President Franklin Armory I hope that eventually you can sell the FCG by itself. You will make a killing. I wouldn't be surprised if you would make more off the trigger then guns. Everyone makes ARs, you just made a golden goose no one else has. 
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Posted: 9/20/2015 10:22:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Smiley:
Thank you for taking the time to come in here. I have a question that I hope you can answer. Why is the BFS not being sold in WA and OR state? As far as I know there are no laws that would prohibit this trigger in either state. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mr_Smiley:
Originally Posted By franklinarmory:
Dear AR15.COM Community. Franklin Armory has been waiting to become an AR15.COM advertiser. We hope that we may be able to be one some day soon. However, the rules require that I must refrain from discussing pricing, availability, where to order, or any other non-technical details. It was very interesting to read the 14 pages of responses on this thread. I see where many of you were anticipating our release and were greatly disappointed by the outcome. I hear your concerns loud and clear. Unfortunately, it would not be safe for us to launch these triggers as a stand alone accessories at this time. The tolerances are tight, though manageable. Pre-production lots have gone together very smoothly. However, moving into the production phase, we need more data points to ensure that production units always work the same when they get into our consumer's hands. It is my responsibility to ensure that each BFS and RFS not only bench tests well, but it must also perform well under live fire circumstances where various harmonics may come into play. The easiest way to have the patent pending BFS and RFS removed from the market by the ATF would be to allow something out of spec to slip through. Given the chance to re do the release of these products, we still wouldn't jeopardize our customer's safety or our reputation by offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory to start. Every trigger needs to be perfect right from the beginning. The best way for me to guarantee that is to actually test it with a full magazine. It shouldn't take too long to get the statistical data necessary for us to feel comfortable with offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory, and we look forward to doing so. I'm willing to bet you will like it. Respectfully, Jay Jacobson President Franklin Armory Thank you for taking the time to come in here. I have a question that I hope you can answer. Why is the BFS not being sold in WA and OR state? As far as I know there are no laws that would prohibit this trigger in either state. What he said |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2015 5:21:08 PM EDT
[#19]
I'm also interested to know this. I looked up what is considered a MG in WA state and came up with this:
(15) "Machine gun" means any firearm known as a machine gun, mechanical rifle, submachine gun, or any other mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir clip, disc, drum, belt, or other separable mechanical device for storing, carrying, or supplying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism, or instrument, and fired therefrom at the rate of five or more shots per second. Is it the terminology "pressed for each shot" that is prohibiting the sale in WA? Even if this were the case, I'd love to be able to buy the BFS trigger for my property in Montana. Unfortunately, if this trigger is being offered in complete rifles/lowers only I wouldn't be able to complete a FFL transfer in Montana. 
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WaMag:
What he said Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WaMag:
Originally Posted By Mr_Smiley:
Why is the BFS not being sold in WA and OR state? As far as I know there are no laws that would prohibit this trigger in either state. What he said |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/22/2015 12:06:31 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wolfwalker:
Yep. I can't believe anyone that has ever worked on more than one AR wouldn't immediately see that this was absolutely the case. Weird. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wolfwalker:
Originally Posted By JSmithXYY:
guys, w tolerances, tolerance stacking etc, triggers can be different in different lowers. that is why the best single stage triggers, where you have the least margin between safety and performance, are hand fitted in that lower. we all have little to no idea just how tight the tolerances have to be to get these triggers to work, most inportantly to NOT fail in a way that the atf could use against us in our chance at having a substantial ROF increase without having to pay big bucks in the closed registry. Naturally, there are alot more moving parts here, both mechanicallt and legally.. if just one bubba wescos their trigger pack and it starts running full auto we can probably kiss this whole deal good bye. in the context of the design and in their heretofore limited sample size they are not confident that the trigger, as currently designed, will work as intended 100% in any* AR lower. The best way for this to. move forward is for early adopters with mo'money buy these hand fitted and extra QC'd units at a premiuum so that FA has the funds to surmount any future technical and legal hurdles. remember, they didnt wait for approval like sheep. "whhat is not prohibitted is permitted" as the saying goes, so having given an opportunity for gov to issue a prohibition they went ahead. remember, these are the people we have to thank for the non nfa ar pistol "firearm." Yep. I can't believe anyone that has ever worked on more than one AR wouldn't immediately see that this was absolutely the case. Weird. Many here have not probably built. Many here have probably never hand fitted a single stage trigger. I dunno, maybe this trigger pack is such that it has long sear surfaces and a robust design to make malfunctions unlikely, or maybe it is more analogous to a really good single stage trigger where various dimensions all have to be just right so that the trigger won't malfunction and/or feel like shit. The real danger here is that the parts could malfunction and go full auto. Like I said before, that is a risk everyone of us runs RIGHT NOW as a disconnect or breaking can do this and the atf did send a guy to prison for a simple malfunction, remember the guy in the national guard. However it is harder to convince a jury to send you up the river for having a malfunction with the same lockwork in millions of ARs than to convince them that this new fangled Franklin trigger malfunctioning is as innocent. The more I think about this, the more I think it might be worth it to buy the complete lower. I do think that they should sell just the lower rec with the fitted lockwork in it, not with a RE, grip and butt. FA, if I send you a balios light lower could you fit the FCG in there and then ship to a DLR for transfer? it is a special light weight lower receiver. Thx |
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Posted: 9/22/2015 1:47:50 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Awesome. I have been interested in this even since I first heard about it. I hope that eventually you can sell the FCG by itself. You will make a killing. I wouldn't be surprised if you would make more off the trigger then guns. Everyone makes ARs, you just made a golden goose no one else has. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By franklinarmory:
Dear AR15.COM Community. Franklin Armory has been waiting to become an AR15.COM advertiser. We hope that we may be able to be one some day soon. However, the rules require that I must refrain from discussing pricing, availability, where to order, or any other non-technical details. It was very interesting to read the 14 pages of responses on this thread. I see where many of you were anticipating our release and were greatly disappointed by the outcome. I hear your concerns loud and clear. Unfortunately, it would not be safe for us to launch these triggers as a stand alone accessories at this time. The tolerances are tight, though manageable. Pre-production lots have gone together very smoothly. However, moving into the production phase, we need more data points to ensure that production units always work the same when they get into our consumer's hands. It is my responsibility to ensure that each BFS and RFS not only bench tests well, but it must also perform well under live fire circumstances where various harmonics may come into play. The easiest way to have the patent pending BFS and RFS removed from the market by the ATF would be to allow something out of spec to slip through. Given the chance to re do the release of these products, we still wouldn't jeopardize our customer's safety or our reputation by offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory to start. Every trigger needs to be perfect right from the beginning. The best way for me to guarantee that is to actually test it with a full magazine. It shouldn't take too long to get the statistical data necessary for us to feel comfortable with offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory, and we look forward to doing so. I'm willing to bet you will like it. Respectfully, Jay Jacobson President Franklin Armory I hope that eventually you can sell the FCG by itself. You will make a killing. I wouldn't be surprised if you would make more off the trigger then guns. Everyone makes ARs, you just made a golden goose no one else has. Correct. But you can bet your ass as soon as that trigger gets in the hands of a competent machinist. He's gonna copy it with subtle changes, get approval from BATFE, and market it. The funny part is, the competent machinist will probably get it out the door quicker than Franklin Armory, and as an accessory without having to cut an arm off for it. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 9/22/2015 1:54:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: stinkypol]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xtreme762:
Correct. But you can bet your ass as soon as that trigger gets in the hands of a competent machinist. He's gonna copy it with subtle changes, get approval from BATFE, and market it. The funny part is, the competent machinist will probably get it out the door quicker than Franklin Armory, and as an accessory without having to cut an arm off for it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xtreme762:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By franklinarmory:
Dear AR15.COM Community. Franklin Armory has been waiting to become an AR15.COM advertiser. We hope that we may be able to be one some day soon. However, the rules require that I must refrain from discussing pricing, availability, where to order, or any other non-technical details. It was very interesting to read the 14 pages of responses on this thread. I see where many of you were anticipating our release and were greatly disappointed by the outcome. I hear your concerns loud and clear. Unfortunately, it would not be safe for us to launch these triggers as a stand alone accessories at this time. The tolerances are tight, though manageable. Pre-production lots have gone together very smoothly. However, moving into the production phase, we need more data points to ensure that production units always work the same when they get into our consumer's hands. It is my responsibility to ensure that each BFS and RFS not only bench tests well, but it must also perform well under live fire circumstances where various harmonics may come into play. The easiest way to have the patent pending BFS and RFS removed from the market by the ATF would be to allow something out of spec to slip through. Given the chance to re do the release of these products, we still wouldn't jeopardize our customer's safety or our reputation by offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory to start. Every trigger needs to be perfect right from the beginning. The best way for me to guarantee that is to actually test it with a full magazine. It shouldn't take too long to get the statistical data necessary for us to feel comfortable with offering the BFS or RFS as an accessory, and we look forward to doing so. I'm willing to bet you will like it. Respectfully, Jay Jacobson President Franklin Armory I hope that eventually you can sell the FCG by itself. You will make a killing. I wouldn't be surprised if you would make more off the trigger then guns. Everyone makes ARs, you just made a golden goose no one else has. Correct. But you can bet your ass as soon as that trigger gets in the hands of a competent machinist. He's gonna copy it with subtle changes, get approval from BATFE, and market it. The funny part is, the competent machinist will probably get it out the door quicker than Franklin Armory, and as an accessory without having to cut an arm off for it. Most likely this scenario  and that business will get my business (and money) first.
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Posted: 9/22/2015 1:36:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tohbii]
[#23]
So much hostility in this thread
Edit: The hate shouldnt be directed at franklin armory for how long this istaken. The atf has had the trigger in their position for 8 months, franklin armory literally cant push it out any faster Stop being so but hurt. Im but hurt over pricing but thats just because im cheap |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/22/2015 2:11:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8:
I guess since the announcement of the product it would be safe for Franklin Armory to re-upload the videos they had showing its function. Here is one that shows function... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKpVaKsUic |
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Posted: 9/22/2015 5:07:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Squawk1200: I'm also interested to know this. I looked up what is considered a MG in WA state and came up with this: (15) "Machine gun" means any firearm known as a machine gun, mechanical rifle, submachine gun, or any other mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir clip, disc, drum, belt, or other separable mechanical device for storing, carrying, or supplying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism, or instrument, and fired therefrom at the rate of five or more shots per second. Is it the terminology "pressed for each shot" that is prohibiting the sale in WA? Even if this were the case, I'd love to be able to buy the BFS trigger for my property in Montana. Unfortunately, if this trigger is being offered in complete rifles/lowers only I wouldn't be able to complete a FFL transfer in Montana. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Squawk1200: I'm also interested to know this. I looked up what is considered a MG in WA state and came up with this: (15) "Machine gun" means any firearm known as a machine gun, mechanical rifle, submachine gun, or any other mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir clip, disc, drum, belt, or other separable mechanical device for storing, carrying, or supplying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism, or instrument, and fired therefrom at the rate of five or more shots per second. Is it the terminology "pressed for each shot" that is prohibiting the sale in WA? Even if this were the case, I'd love to be able to buy the BFS trigger for my property in Montana. Unfortunately, if this trigger is being offered in complete rifles/lowers only I wouldn't be able to complete a FFL transfer in Montana. Originally Posted By WaMag: Originally Posted By Mr_Smiley: Why is the BFS not being sold in WA and OR state? As far as I know there are no laws that would prohibit this trigger in either state. What he said |
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Posted: 9/22/2015 6:49:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FSAL:
Here is one that shows function... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKpVaKsUic Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FSAL:
Originally Posted By brodband8:
I guess since the announcement of the product it would be safe for Franklin Armory to re-upload the videos they had showing its function. Here is one that shows function... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKpVaKsUic I've seen this one a bunch, I want to see mag dump vids lol |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/22/2015 6:53:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8:
I've seen this one a bunch, I want to see mag dump vids lol Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brodband8:
Originally Posted By FSAL:
Originally Posted By brodband8:
I guess since the announcement of the product it would be safe for Franklin Armory to re-upload the videos they had showing its function. Here is one that shows function... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKpVaKsUic I've seen this one a bunch, I want to see mag dump vids lol They did have one, but it was with the sig brace fired from the shoulder and it was removed pretty fast. |
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Posted: 9/23/2015 10:38:29 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FSAL:
Here is one that shows function... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKpVaKsUic Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FSAL:
Originally Posted By brodband8:
I guess since the announcement of the product it would be safe for Franklin Armory to re-upload the videos they had showing its function. Here is one that shows function... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKpVaKsUic You should not have done that. Now I want a few of these triggers REALLY BAD!
Though I have to wonder what is the deal with that shooter/rifle where he was using his off hand to operate the selector? The whole point of the AR design is to allow one to use their strong hand thumb to operate the selector. |
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Posted: 9/23/2015 11:21:03 AM EDT
[#29]
It looks like some of the products with the BFS are now up for sale:
http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS_NEW.html Eric  |
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Posted: 9/23/2015 11:34:25 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Forest:
You should not have done that. Now I want a few of these triggers REALLY BAD!
Though I have to wonder what is the deal with that shooter/rifle where he was using his off hand to operate the selector? The whole point of the AR design is to allow one to use their strong hand thumb to operate the selector. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By FSAL:
Originally Posted By brodband8:
I guess since the announcement of the product it would be safe for Franklin Armory to re-upload the videos they had showing its function. Here is one that shows function... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKpVaKsUic You should not have done that. Now I want a few of these triggers REALLY BAD!
Though I have to wonder what is the deal with that shooter/rifle where he was using his off hand to operate the selector? The whole point of the AR design is to allow one to use their strong hand thumb to operate the selector. Much agreement here. But $750 for a nothing special M4 Lower? Your basically paying $500 for the trigger. |
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Posted: 9/23/2015 11:52:41 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By onealphay2k:
Much agreement here. But $750 for a nothing special M4 Lower? Your basically paying $500 for the trigger. That's what my math says. I'm just going to have to wait. I don't have a problem paying $300 for just the FCG, but $750 for a lower just isn't going to happen. I've tried for the last week to convince myself to buy one. But I want this trigger in my SBR anyway. |
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Posted: 9/23/2015 11:53:27 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By onealphay2k:
Much agreement here. But $750 for a nothing special M4 Lower? Your basically paying $500 for the trigger. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By onealphay2k:
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By FSAL:
Originally Posted By brodband8:
I guess since the announcement of the product it would be safe for Franklin Armory to re-upload the videos they had showing its function. Here is one that shows function... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKpVaKsUic You should not have done that. Now I want a few of these triggers REALLY BAD!
Though I have to wonder what is the deal with that shooter/rifle where he was using his off hand to operate the selector? The whole point of the AR design is to allow one to use their strong hand thumb to operate the selector. Much agreement here. But $750 for a nothing special M4 Lower? Your basically paying $500 for the trigger. Have patience. |
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Posted: 9/23/2015 12:03:33 PM EDT
[#33]
I didn't even want one until I saw that damn video. Now, I am ready to order one, but I will have to wait as well.
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Posted: 9/23/2015 12:19:43 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 9/23/2015 12:24:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Nice! Thanks Tohbii!
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Posted: 9/23/2015 3:08:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tohbii]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eric_Mayer:
It looks like some of the products with the BFS are now up for sale: http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS_NEW.html Eric Wait WTF are these approved? will they ship asap or is this like a pre release thing? edit: says on page to ship early november |
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Posted: 9/23/2015 3:47:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Can't wait....
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Posted: 9/23/2015 4:42:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Glad to see they are for sale but they wont get a penny from me until they sell the trigger by itself.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2015 5:21:35 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spartikis:
Glad to see they are for sale but they wont get a penny from me until they sell the trigger by itself. Same. Maybe this was already covered, but I'm assuming they're selling them in lowers/complete rifles for the time being to facilitate in tracking them down in case ATF requires them to recall the triggers. I think once they get a positive determination letter they'll feel comfortable selling the trigger units only. |
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Posted: 9/23/2015 5:25:21 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spartikis:
Glad to see they are for sale but they wont get a penny from me until they sell the trigger by itself. This. I was interested in the trigger, not interested in the rifle at all. |
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Posted: 9/23/2015 6:01:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: m411b30]
[#41]
$1525 for a nothing special civilian "M4" style AR-15? I'll pass thanks anyway! No trigger system on earth for the AR-15 is worth $900. Anyone can build a reliable "M4" style AR-15 for $600, or maybe even less.
I honestly don't know why anyone would even consider some bullshit like this. It doesn't even have a rail system on it, or a piston system. This HAS to be some kind of nasty joke! |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2015 6:38:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spartikis:
Glad to see they are for sale but they wont get a penny from me until they sell the trigger by itself. This. Along with ATF approval for me, so prob be awhile. These are sweet, but not worth the 1% chance of getting into a legal mess over having it. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 9/24/2015 1:39:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: stinkypol]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spartikis:
Glad to see they are for sale but they wont get a penny from me until they sell the trigger by itself. Same here brother. |
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Posted: 9/28/2015 2:10:42 PM EDT
[#44]
just posted a few minutes ago
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Posted: 9/28/2015 2:34:22 PM EDT
[#45]
Shit just got real...
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Posted: 9/28/2015 2:35:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jaqufrost]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tohbii: just posted a few minutes ago  https://youtu.be/3TAhsoTJ6pshttp://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--AigCHM9Z--/fuiidxf8ahp8vr6fgzez.jpg Hotlinked for mobile users. |
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Posted: 9/28/2015 2:37:13 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tohbii:
just posted a few minutes ago https://youtu.be/3TAhsoTJ6ps
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--AigCHM9Z--/fuiidxf8ahp8vr6fgzez.jpg What the hell is with the Gangsta Music?? Yo? |
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Posted: 9/28/2015 2:53:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TZ250:
Shit just got real... The cyclic rate is.......very high |
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Posted: 9/28/2015 3:34:39 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tohbii:
just posted a few minutes ago https://youtu.be/3TAhsoTJ6ps
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--AigCHM9Z--/fuiidxf8ahp8vr6fgzez.jpg Looks like it doesn't disappoint, assuming they all work as the one does. Too bad none of us want to buy the entire rifle for a trigger. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/28/2015 3:52:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: scudzuki]
[#50]
I once put together a lower that operated like this.
The disconnector did not overlap the trigger sear enough... if you let the trigger snap forward, the sear would catch the hammer off the disconnector, but if you eased the trigger forward, it would fire. The trigger sear would catch the hammer with the trigger in the forward position. I believe it happened because the disconnector was from a different supplier than the trigger; all I did to restore SA functionality it was to grind a little off the bottom of the front stop on the disconnector to allow more overlap. It occurs to me that all I'd need to make a trigger like Franklin Armories is an extended disconnector that has a tail under the safety cam (like a full auto) and a modification to the safety cam to back the disconnecor off a little in position 3, with enough overlap to catch the hammer (no FA fire) and little enough overlap to allow the hammer sear to miss the trigger sear on trigger return. Position 2 (fire) of the safety would allow the disconnector to overlap the trigger sear enough for SA operation. It would be necessary for each FCG made as I've described to be fitted to the lower it was to run in. Looks like I'll be spending some time in the shop this week... Joe |
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