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Posted: 12/31/2014 11:24:43 AM EDT
[#1]
I like them, but you can buy A LOT of cotter pins for that money.
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Posted: 12/31/2014 11:38:52 AM EDT
[#2]
What is the round count life expectancy of a standard cotter pin?
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Posted: 12/31/2014 11:44:32 AM EDT
[#3]
Not worth it to me. YMMV
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Posted: 12/31/2014 11:45:44 AM EDT
[#4]
Nearly a lifetime, you will lose one before you ever wear it out........ these solid pins are as effective as anti roll pins . gadget at best
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is the round count life expectancy of a standard cotter pin? |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 12:17:08 PM EDT
[#5]
The original Colt select-fire, pre-M16 AR15s (R601, etc.) came with solid firing pin retaining pins.
They were found to be prone to breakage, more expensive to manufacture, and generally unnecessary. Cotter pins were found to be more durable, easier to use, and cheaper to source - one of the few "win-win" scenarios from a design/manufacturing standpoint. But hey, that was fifty years ago. Maybe they've introduced something brand new and amazing in solid metal pin technology that puts the old guard to shame... ~Augee |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 1:14:33 PM EDT
[#6]
I have the solid FPRP on my rifle and prefer it.
I grew up in SE Alaska and saw cotter pins fail on outboard motors, it made me biased. I like machines to be reliable... |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 1:18:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have the solid FPRP on my rifle and prefer it. I grew up in SE Alaska and saw cotter pins fail on outboard motors, it made me biased. I like machines to be reliable... Two different applications are hardly a good comparison. Have you ever had a cotter type FPRP fail in an AR type rifle? Ever even heard of it happening? |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 2:07:30 PM EDT
[#8]
I don't believe there is much stress on the firing pin retainer. I would just keep the cotter pin, maybe get a few spares in case you lose one while cleaning the bcg.
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Posted: 12/31/2014 2:35:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Gimmick.
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Posted: 12/31/2014 2:38:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gimmick. This. There's absolutely no reason. Your standard firing pin retaining pin won't fail you. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 3:08:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nearly a lifetime, you will lose one before you ever wear it out........ these solid pins are as effective as anti roll pins . gadget at best Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nearly a lifetime, you will lose one before you ever wear it out........ these solid pins are as effective as anti roll pins . gadget at best Quoted:
What is the round count life expectancy of a standard cotter pin? They have their uses. I have a gun that liked to bend cotter pins. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 8:13:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Plain cotter pins aren't hardened either, totally different animal.
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Posted: 12/31/2014 9:58:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plain cotter pins aren't hardened either, totally different animal. Winner. The "cotter pin" in the AR-M16 is NOT a cotter pin. Cotter pins are specifically designed to be easily bent and are soft enough to be repeatedly bent and straightened. The AR-M16 firing pin retainer is a special hardened pin which is intended NOT to bend, and has a flatter head to insure it's below the level of the carrier. Put a standard cotter pin in the carrier and it will very seriously gouge your receiver. As above, the original Stoner solid pin was found to be less reliable and cost more. In addition it tended to fall out of the carrier, resulting in it's loss, which rendered the weapon out of service and unusable. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 11:50:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Tried the solid pin with the little split end one time. Couldn't get it through the BCG and one of the little tips broke off. Might have been operator error but never had trouble with the 'cotter pins' and won't use a solid pin again.
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Posted: 12/31/2014 11:54:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tried the solid pin with the little split end one time. Couldn't get it through the BCG and one of the little tips broke off. Might have been operator error but never had trouble with the 'cotter pins' and won't use a solid pin again. Yea there's no real advantage except maybe being easier to not lose. I'd just put the stock FPRP back in and caller good. |
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Posted: 1/1/2015 1:47:46 AM EDT
[#16]
IIRC, there are two "copies" of the original Stoner design.
DPMS offers one that I tried and pitched. The "prongs" on the end wouldn't keep it in place. IF I was going to use one now I'd go with the KNS unit which has raised pads on the prongs to keep it in place. DPMS Pin 
KNS Pin 
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Posted: 1/1/2015 3:45:45 AM EDT
[#17]
Those cotter pins DO fail and break... if you have an undercut bolt carrier and a notched hammer... but the correct answer in that case is to ditch your lame ban-era bolt carrier and hammer.
I want one of these made out of titanium for my superlight project (If it's lighter than the steel flavor, anyway). |
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Posted: 1/1/2015 11:12:16 AM EDT
[#18]
So I am the only person that has ran across cotter pins that will not go through the off side? For me they work or are a fight to get through.
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Posted: 1/1/2015 11:14:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Just looking at these it looks like they would be stronger than a cotter pin. I just ordered a new JP bolt for my AR10 and it came with a solid pin instead of a cotter pin and now I'm thinking about replacing the cotter pins in my AR15's with solid cotter pins. Good move? The solid pins are available on EBAY. 3 for 6.99 My KAC SR-25 also has the solid firing pin retaining pin from the factory. It has been in there for 21 years now. As for the AR15s, stay with what they have. All of my AR15s have the cotter pins in them and I have no intention of ever changing them. If you HAVE to replace a cotter pin firing pin retaining pin, do so with the same type of pin. The cotter pins have been used for decades and they work well. |
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Posted: 1/1/2015 2:22:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Have you noticed that KNS in their advertising / description of their solid firing pin retaining pin make no claim that it does anything better than the standard firing pin retaining pin? I'd say that there's a reason for that.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those cotter pins DO fail and break... if you have an undercut bolt carrier and a notched hammer... but the correct answer in that case is to ditch your lame ban-era bolt carrier and hammer. ....... Yep. |
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Posted: 1/1/2015 2:23:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I am the only person that has ran across cotter pins that will not go through the off side? For me they work or are a fight to get through. If it happens with more than one pin, it's probably your bolt carrier. |
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Posted: 1/1/2015 3:57:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you noticed that KNS in their advertising / description of their solid firing pin retaining pin make no claim that it does anything better than the standard firing pin retaining pin? I'd say that there's a reason for that. Ironic, because their trigger pins don't do anything either. 
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Posted: 1/1/2015 4:20:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I am the only person that has ran across cotter pins that will not go through the off side? For me they work or are a fight to get through. I haven't broken one yet, but I run into the problem you mention often enough in some ARs that I keep spares. Sometimes I can re-bend them to fit, but is generally a waste of time to do so. The solid option is appealing for this reason for me. But, I haven't tried one yet. |
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Posted: 1/1/2015 6:00:59 PM EDT
[#24]
When installing the retainer pin try rotating it while pushing. This will usually get it in.
Otherwise, it's usually a slightly out of spec bolt carrier. Most manuals warn never to bend the pin, which often ruins it. The pin is hardened, Bending it more than just a tiny bit damages the hardened steel's internal structure, resulting in failures. |
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Posted: 1/1/2015 6:08:20 PM EDT
[#25]
In all my years shooting I have had one pin fail and I still use the cheap pin. Not worth using the solid ones.
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Posted: 1/1/2015 6:41:13 PM EDT
[#26]
The "cotter pin" split pin is used in place of the original solid pin design which had breakage/reliability issues.
Now, the unwary are buying expensive solid pins to replace the cheap split pins in what's really a retrograde, not an upgrade. But people like to spend money apparently. |
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