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Posted: 11/6/2014 8:08:18 PM EDT
[#1]
I'd like to re-iterate that most users of this bolt will probably not see any damage for quite a long time if they are shooting unsuppressed. Also, unfortunately most folks just don't shoot very much.The last bolt that broke took 944 rounds. That doesn't sound like many rounds (it isn't) but your average Joe will take a very, very long time to shoot 944 rounds.
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Posted: 11/6/2014 8:13:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A recall would have been prudent on their part. People start losing fingers and eyes they will see the error of their ways. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: BIG ASS UPDATE: BOLT #2 IS BROKEN http://i.imgur.com/nMYI9bj.jpg AND I GOT IT ON FILM! Okay so I've been shooting my replacement reliabolt from Sharps Rifle Co for I believe less than a month and I've broken the second bolt. I've also taken very, very detailed record of my shooting schedule and I think I've finally found out why the bolt is breaking. I do believe that it is indeed a 100% flawed design (or material) IF you plan to shoot suppressed. Here's what happened: It took five shooting sessions with the new bolt to break it. The number of rounds I shot in each session are as follows: Sesson: #1 - 270 Rounds #2 - 80 Rounds #3 - 202 Rounds #4 - 162 Rounds #5 FAILURE POINT - 230 Rounds TOTAL ROUND COUNT ON BOLT - 944 Rounds FAILURES: 2 Double Feeds No failures to eject, feed, etc that can be attributed to the bolt. The bolt failed while I was filming the shooting/action scenes for an Elcan SpecterDR YouTube review so I got it on film!!! All ammo used was Federal imported israeli made Independence 5.56 spec. ammo that I've had great success with in the past. All rounds shot with new bolt were suppressed besides 60 rounds. WHY DID THE BOLT FAIL? While shooting the first reliabolt and then the replacement reliabolt I noticed that while using the reliabolts, I had major pressure signs. Namely.. case head swipe. I'll show this in the video I'm going to make soon. I also blew out 3 primers while using the Sharp's bolt. Flattened primers, massive case head swipe, and blown primers all mean that the bolt is unlocking before chamber pressures have dropped to a safe level. With the factory DD bolt and even with an AIM surplus 9310 bolt, I have almost none of these issues at all. Something is causing these bolts to unlock prematurely (way, way prematurely).. at least with a Daniel Defense (big gas port) SBR that is suppressed. Would this bolt be fine in an unsuppressed 16" carbine? Maybe. A 20" rifle? Probably. But these pressure signs are shocking and I will not trust this product again. I encourage Sharps to keep developing this bolt and hopefully turn it into something great. Maybe a milspec bolt made of S7 steel would be better, or perhaps they can use their bladed lug design with C158 steel? Either way, I'm not going to risk possible injury or damage to my rifle by continuing to use replacement bolts. I will give Sharps a HUGE A+ as far as customer service goes. They issued this replacement bolt promptly without question which is excellent. I will not be requesting another bolt from them though. If there's any questions feel free to ask. I'll be posting a YouTube video on this including the footage in which the bolt broke within a week or so. ETA: I forgot to mention, I headspaced the rifle with the replacement bolt as well as the factory DD bolt and it had perfect headspace. Interesting, since I just e-mailed Sharps earlier today. It was in response to their e-mail thanking me for using their products. I referenced this thread, and voiced my concerns about their bolt. They responded quickly, and said there was a heat treat problem with early bolts, but that the bolt shipped to me was not in that range. I'd be interested to hear their response to this second incident. Ask them why they didn't issue a recall via all the major firearm's news outlets. The bolt is at the heart of a rifle. They are tampering with serious injury and property damage if their bolts are breaking or exploding. I'm calling it quits after two bolts because I have a $2400 optic sitting a few inches above the bolt in my carbine that I don't want to see blown up. A recall would have been prudent on their part. People start losing fingers and eyes they will see the error of their ways. I blew up a polymer lower with overpressure rounds and had some minor abrasions on my forearm. The rifle was totally destroyed. I just dont see how a broken bolt lug could cause serious injury.
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Posted: 11/6/2014 8:46:07 PM EDT
[#3]
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Do you have a source for a documented case where a broken bolt caused loss of fingers or eyes? Or even a Kaboom causing permanent damage? I blew up a polymer lower with overpressure rounds and had some minor abrasions on my forearm. The rifle was totally destroyed. I just dont see how a broken bolt lug could cause serious injury. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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BIG ASS UPDATE: BOLT #2 IS BROKEN http://i.imgur.com/nMYI9bj.jpg AND I GOT IT ON FILM! Okay so I've been shooting my replacement reliabolt from Sharps Rifle Co for I believe less than a month and I've broken the second bolt. I've also taken very, very detailed record of my shooting schedule and I think I've finally found out why the bolt is breaking. I do believe that it is indeed a 100% flawed design (or material) IF you plan to shoot suppressed. Here's what happened: It took five shooting sessions with the new bolt to break it. The number of rounds I shot in each session are as follows: Sesson: #1 - 270 Rounds #2 - 80 Rounds #3 - 202 Rounds #4 - 162 Rounds #5 FAILURE POINT - 230 Rounds TOTAL ROUND COUNT ON BOLT - 944 Rounds FAILURES: 2 Double Feeds No failures to eject, feed, etc that can be attributed to the bolt. The bolt failed while I was filming the shooting/action scenes for an Elcan SpecterDR YouTube review so I got it on film!!! All ammo used was Federal imported israeli made Independence 5.56 spec. ammo that I've had great success with in the past. All rounds shot with new bolt were suppressed besides 60 rounds. WHY DID THE BOLT FAIL? While shooting the first reliabolt and then the replacement reliabolt I noticed that while using the reliabolts, I had major pressure signs. Namely.. case head swipe. I'll show this in the video I'm going to make soon. I also blew out 3 primers while using the Sharp's bolt. Flattened primers, massive case head swipe, and blown primers all mean that the bolt is unlocking before chamber pressures have dropped to a safe level. With the factory DD bolt and even with an AIM surplus 9310 bolt, I have almost none of these issues at all. Something is causing these bolts to unlock prematurely (way, way prematurely).. at least with a Daniel Defense (big gas port) SBR that is suppressed. Would this bolt be fine in an unsuppressed 16" carbine? Maybe. A 20" rifle? Probably. But these pressure signs are shocking and I will not trust this product again. I encourage Sharps to keep developing this bolt and hopefully turn it into something great. Maybe a milspec bolt made of S7 steel would be better, or perhaps they can use their bladed lug design with C158 steel? Either way, I'm not going to risk possible injury or damage to my rifle by continuing to use replacement bolts. I will give Sharps a HUGE A+ as far as customer service goes. They issued this replacement bolt promptly without question which is excellent. I will not be requesting another bolt from them though. If there's any questions feel free to ask. I'll be posting a YouTube video on this including the footage in which the bolt broke within a week or so. ETA: I forgot to mention, I headspaced the rifle with the replacement bolt as well as the factory DD bolt and it had perfect headspace. Interesting, since I just e-mailed Sharps earlier today. It was in response to their e-mail thanking me for using their products. I referenced this thread, and voiced my concerns about their bolt. They responded quickly, and said there was a heat treat problem with early bolts, but that the bolt shipped to me was not in that range. I'd be interested to hear their response to this second incident. Ask them why they didn't issue a recall via all the major firearm's news outlets. The bolt is at the heart of a rifle. They are tampering with serious injury and property damage if their bolts are breaking or exploding. I'm calling it quits after two bolts because I have a $2400 optic sitting a few inches above the bolt in my carbine that I don't want to see blown up. A recall would have been prudent on their part. People start losing fingers and eyes they will see the error of their ways. I blew up a polymer lower with overpressure rounds and had some minor abrasions on my forearm. The rifle was totally destroyed. I just dont see how a broken bolt lug could cause serious injury. I have had dozens of broken bolts and none of them had the potential for injury. Sheared lugs can be caused by catastrophic failure that could cause injury, but alone it won't cause major injury. When the pressure vessels of the case, chamber, or barrel fails then you have the potential for injury. |
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Posted: 11/6/2014 11:01:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Why didn't you just leave the factory Daniel Defense bolt in? Its a full auto BCG.
I have over 5000 rounds through mine, no failures. |
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Posted: 11/7/2014 12:13:59 AM EDT
[#5]
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Why didn't you just leave the factory Daniel Defense bolt in? Its a full auto BCG. I have over 5000 rounds through mine, no failures. Exactly. With a build you have to buy something, so I get trying this or that. But with a factory gun, I just don't get replacing the factory bolt with aftermarket stuff. Even if it works, so what? What added feature can a bolt offer other than locking and unlocking the action and preferably doing so without shedding lugs...like the UNReliabolt. |
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Posted: 11/7/2014 8:54:15 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exactly. With a build you have to buy something, so I get trying this or that. But with a factory gun, I just don't get replacing the factory bolt with aftermarket stuff. Even if it works, so what? What added feature can a bolt offer other than locking and unlocking the action and preferably doing so without shedding lugs...like the UNReliabolt. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why didn't you just leave the factory Daniel Defense bolt in? Its a full auto BCG. I have over 5000 rounds through mine, no failures. Exactly. With a build you have to buy something, so I get trying this or that. But with a factory gun, I just don't get replacing the factory bolt with aftermarket stuff. Even if it works, so what? What added feature can a bolt offer other than locking and unlocking the action and preferably doing so without shedding lugs...like the UNReliabolt. Some people just like to try and break stuff 
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Posted: 11/7/2014 10:29:33 AM EDT
[#7]
Wow good thing I saw this. Almost got one to try out
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Posted: 11/7/2014 11:09:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. With a build you have to buy something, so I get trying this or that. But with a factory gun, I just don't get replacing the factory bolt with aftermarket stuff. Even if it works, so what? What added feature can a bolt offer other than locking and unlocking the action and preferably doing so without shedding lugs...like the UNReliabolt. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why didn't you just leave the factory Daniel Defense bolt in? Its a full auto BCG. I have over 5000 rounds through mine, no failures. Exactly. With a build you have to buy something, so I get trying this or that. But with a factory gun, I just don't get replacing the factory bolt with aftermarket stuff. Even if it works, so what? What added feature can a bolt offer other than locking and unlocking the action and preferably doing so without shedding lugs...like the UNReliabolt. I'm speculating here, but I'd guess that he was testing out a new product to see if he wanted to carry that product in his shop.
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Posted: 11/7/2014 11:33:16 AM EDT
[#9]
I'm still thinking about getting the Reliabolt to stick in my 20" 1-7 barreled rifle. It fires nothing but 77g bthp's. Never had a can on it. Would be interesting to see the results.
S7 is a little hard to get right in a bolt. Barrett took a long time to get it right. |
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Posted: 11/7/2014 1:22:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd like to re-iterate that most users of this bolt will probably not see any damage for quite a long time if they are shooting unsuppressed. Also, unfortunately most folks just don't shoot very much.The last bolt that broke took 944 rounds. That doesn't sound like many rounds (it isn't) but your average Joe will take a very, very long time to shoot 944 rounds. Breaking at 944 round is COMPLETELY unacceptable. With ammo prices falling we'll again seeing 'average Joes' shooting several hundred rounds a range session. |
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Posted: 11/7/2014 7:25:19 PM EDT
[#11]
How long does a normal bolt last you?
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Posted: 11/7/2014 8:09:29 PM EDT
[#12]
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TCArmory Quote HistoryQuoted:
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what is your Youtube channel? i'd like to subscribe in anticipation of the footage of the breakage and your thoughts TCArmory Holy shit, whats up Jeff! I had no idea that was you lol ive been subbed to your channel for a good minute! |
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Posted: 11/7/2014 9:53:17 PM EDT
[#13]
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How long does a normal bolt last you? Under normal use, between 9000-12000 on average... |
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Posted: 11/7/2014 10:31:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd like to re-iterate that most users of this bolt will probably not see any damage for quite a long time if they are shooting unsuppressed. Also, unfortunately most folks just don't shoot very much.The last bolt that broke took 944 rounds. That doesn't sound like many rounds (it isn't) but your average Joe will take a very, very long time to shoot 944 rounds. That's a months worth of shootin here |
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Posted: 11/8/2014 5:41:04 PM EDT
[#15]
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Under normal use, between 9000-12000 on average... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How long does a normal bolt last you? Under normal use, between 9000-12000 on average... But with the can on that mk18, im curious as to how long a regular bolt lasts him. |
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Posted: 11/8/2014 8:37:20 PM EDT
[#16]
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[q I'm speculating here, but I'd guess that he was testing out a new product to see if he wanted to carry that product in his shop. This. |
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Posted: 11/8/2014 8:38:43 PM EDT
[#17]
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Holy shit, whats up Jeff! I had no idea that was you lol ive been subbed to your channel for a good minute! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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what is your Youtube channel? i'd like to subscribe in anticipation of the footage of the breakage and your thoughts TCArmory Holy shit, whats up Jeff! I had no idea that was you lol ive been subbed to your channel for a good minute! Not much :) Thanks for the sub man. |
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Posted: 11/8/2014 8:42:37 PM EDT
[#18]
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How long does a normal bolt last you? Never broke a C158 bolt. I've shot an unreal amount of 5.56 in my life but unfortunately due to my firearm's ADHD I never keep a particular gun longer than a year or two. That might be changing soon as I'll never, ever sell my LWRC M6 SPR or my MK18. Those two guns will be the absolute last firearms I will ever sell. My LWRC has a very high round count of just under 10k and the MK18 is just about there too. |
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Posted: 11/9/2014 4:57:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd like to re-iterate that most users of this bolt will probably not see any damage for quite a long time if they are shooting unsuppressed. Also, unfortunately most folks just don't shoot very much.The last bolt that broke took 944 rounds. That doesn't sound like many rounds (it isn't) but your average Joe will take a very, very long time to shoot 944 rounds. I normally shoot that many in two range sessions. 
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Posted: 11/12/2014 1:56:46 AM EDT
[#20]
So has Sharps had any further comment on the second broken bolt? I have a couple of these bolts and am wondering.
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Posted: 11/12/2014 10:39:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So has Sharps had any further comment on the second broken bolt? I have a couple of these bolts and am wondering. I'm curious about this too...any response / explanation from SRC regarding the second bolt? |
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Posted: 11/16/2014 1:26:36 PM EDT
[#22]
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Move on. Stop buying the flavor of the day parts and use proven parts with demonstrated reliabilty. No, no. Keep using new stuff and breaking it for us, until they're of demonstrated reliability. 
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Posted: 11/23/2014 1:54:28 AM EDT
[#23]
Sharpes sent out replacement bolts to everyone who got the bad batch (with a post-paid return box for the old bolt). It includes a letter of explanation and points out that many have over 10K rounds through the bad heat treat bolts, and from the few that broke, no injuries have occurred.
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Posted: 11/23/2014 11:51:52 AM EDT
[#24]
I haven't heard from Sharps on the second bolt. Maybe I'll call them up.
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Posted: 11/23/2014 1:03:26 PM EDT
[#25]
It sounds like the bladed lug design is leading to premature unlocking. Maybe lateral forces on the lug are causing this?
Just spitballing thoughts here. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 7:13:12 PM EDT
[#26]
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I disagree. ARP's superbolt has been working great for the 6.8 guys and LWRC's ACB has been purchased (at least in small quantities) by SOCOM elements. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Move on. Stop buying the flavor of the day parts and use proven parts with demonstrated reliabilty. As we have seen from the last 10 years, most of the junk marketed is useless and not for serious use. They only improvements that have been worthwhile have been KAC improvements. They fix the root cause problems and dont add bandaids. KAC has the best non mil-spec solution but LMT got their enhanced bolt right as well... Other than that, every other non mil-spec bolt out there is crap including this, as soon as I saw this bolt I thought it was hype and I'm not surprised with this. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 7:15:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I disagree. ARP's superbolt has been working great for the 6.8 guys and LWRC's ACB has been purchased (at least in small quantities) by SOCOM elements. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Move on. Stop buying the flavor of the day parts and use proven parts with demonstrated reliabilty. As we have seen from the last 10 years, most of the junk marketed is useless and not for serious use. They only improvements that have been worthwhile have been KAC improvements. They fix the root cause problems and dont add bandaids. KAC has the best non mil-spec solution but LMT got their enhanced bolt right as well... Other than that, every other non mil-spec bolt out there is crap including this, as soon as I saw this bolt I thought it was hype and I'm not surprised with this. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 7:16:56 PM EDT
[#28]
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LWRC's ACB has been purchased (at least in small quantities) by SOCOM elements. If you have proof of this other than hearsay and any data on them actually using it, IM me. |
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Posted: 12/1/2014 6:09:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sharpes sent out replacement bolts to everyone who got the bad batch (with a post-paid return box for the old bolt). It includes a letter of explanation and points out that many have over 10K rounds through the bad heat treat bolts, and from the few that broke, no injuries have occurred. I just now received mine. That's quality customer service to say the least. I didn't even ask for another. Along with the new bolt there was a letter informing me about the recall, of course, and when the old bolt is sent back, in the prepaid stamped box, you are entered for a chance to win a brand new AR chambered in 25-45 sharps along with 200 rounds 87gr soft point. I LOLed at 87gr 
Eta: big thanks to Dysfunction for bringing this to light. |
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Posted: 12/1/2014 7:48:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just now received mine. That's quality customer service to say the least. I didn't even ask for another. Along with the new bolt there was a letter informing me about the recall, of course, and when the old bolt is sent back, in the prepaid stamped box, you are entered for a chance to win a brand new AR chambered in 25-45 sharps along with 200 rounds 87gr soft point. I LOLed at 87gr
Eta: big thanks to Dysfunction for bringing this to light. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sharpes sent out replacement bolts to everyone who got the bad batch (with a post-paid return box for the old bolt). It includes a letter of explanation and points out that many have over 10K rounds through the bad heat treat bolts, and from the few that broke, no injuries have occurred. I just now received mine. That's quality customer service to say the least. I didn't even ask for another. Along with the new bolt there was a letter informing me about the recall, of course, and when the old bolt is sent back, in the prepaid stamped box, you are entered for a chance to win a brand new AR chambered in 25-45 sharps along with 200 rounds 87gr soft point. I LOLed at 87gr
Eta: big thanks to Dysfunction for bringing this to light. Got my recall letter and replacement bolts today, as well. I think Sharps handled it well. Look forward to Dysfunction testing the replacement bolts. |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 5:20:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Got my recall letter and replacement bolts today, as well. I think Sharps handled it well. Look forward to Dysfunction testing the replacement bolts. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sharpes sent out replacement bolts to everyone who got the bad batch (with a post-paid return box for the old bolt). It includes a letter of explanation and points out that many have over 10K rounds through the bad heat treat bolts, and from the few that broke, no injuries have occurred. I just now received mine. That's quality customer service to say the least. I didn't even ask for another. Along with the new bolt there was a letter informing me about the recall, of course, and when the old bolt is sent back, in the prepaid stamped box, you are entered for a chance to win a brand new AR chambered in 25-45 sharps along with 200 rounds 87gr soft point. I LOLed at 87gr Eta: big thanks to Dysfunction for bringing this to light. Got my recall letter and replacement bolts today, as well. I think Sharps handled it well. Look forward to Dysfunction testing the replacement bolts. I just wanted to add my piece as well to this thread... Today I got back into the country, and what timing. I bought a ReliaBolt this last Summer, however I never got a chance to install it. I check the mail today, and I have a package and the letter from Sharps about the recall with a brand new bolt as well! I REALLY appreciated this. I was literally getting ready to email them today to find out if the one I bought this last Summer was in the defective class after following this thread for a while, but they already beat me to it. ++++ for Customer Service and to hoping I have good luck with this new one. I primarily bought this to run in my 300blk suppressed, so I will update as I get some rounds down range this next month. I plan to shoot a lot... |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 10:40:53 PM EDT
[#32]
I purchased a Relia-bolt in July, but I have yet to use it due to shattering my left knee in August. Today, I too received a replacement bolt from SRC with the letter explaining a batch of bolts had a bad heat treat. I too didn't even contact Sharps to request a replacement bolt. Sharps shipped it out on their own accord. I'll get the letter scanned in, and post it up later.
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Posted: 12/3/2014 2:12:23 AM EDT
[#33]
I got my package today. I am completely shocked with Sharps costumer service. Thanks Sharps! I will be buying from you guys in the future, because I know you stand behind your products. More companies should model their customer service after yours. No one is perfect and shit happens. Thanks for making it right with your customers.
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Posted: 12/3/2014 6:23:44 AM EDT
[#34]
... Well... This is interesting.
Sharp's is trying to correct this. I respect that. I wish they would provide some details as to the cause of the problem, if they have isolated it. I will be sticking with milspec bolts. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 11:36:25 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... Well... This is interesting. Sharp's is trying to correct this. I respect that. I wish they would provide some details as to the cause of the problem, if they have isolated it. I will be sticking with milspec bolts. Sharps released this info, saying an improper heat-treat process was used on some of their bolts. Proper heat treat is required with any steel used for AR bolts (any steel that I am aware of anyway). I do not blame anyone for sticking with known, proven technology, yet mil spec bolts do break quite often. I received my replacement SRC bolts also, altho mine showed no signs of failure (yet). Had approx. 1400 rounds on 2 bolts (in a Colt Socom and BCM 14.5 middy). This had to be quite a shocking experience (and expensive) for Sharps (SRC), but I feel they are handling this as well as any company can. Any company that attempts change takes risks, this is an attempt to make a known problem better- I believe quite a bit of info has been learned. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Using known quality mil-spec bolts does make great sense, but I continue pushing the envelope for improvement- accepting part failures is a risk I face in doing so, My goto rifles still have known, proven bolts in place. S7 should prove itself to be worthy, once the bugs are worked through. Now, I will attempt to break mine. Shit happens... |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 2:15:42 PM EDT
[#36]
OK guys.
Now let's take a big step back and really look at the issue. First, good on the company for stepping up and providing replacements, etc. That shows they have integrity in the market and that is good, but seriously.... What do these bolts claim to do in the first place? I mean, what is any bolt supposed to do? 1} keep the gun locked 2} carry an effective extractor/ejector 3} lock and unlock over and over and 4} fit the gun they are used in. So why in the world does anyone need a supposedly "better" bolt that isn't? I mean, just how BAD are other name brand milspec type bolts that this bolt is appealing AT ALL? This whole fiasco really drives home the point that in the search for some minute and possibly only theoretical advantage folks are willing to put up with a lot of hassle and along the way the real and true piddly advantages of the thing even if it worked gets forgotten which is to say that the technical reality is that even if the thing did what it says it is supposed to do the advantage of the thing would be so minimal that it its value would be really pretty much nil anyhow. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 2:55:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK guys. Now let's take a big step back and really look at the issue. First, good on the company for stepping up and providing replacements, etc. That shows they have integrity in the market and that is good, but seriously.... What do these bolts claim to do in the first place? I mean, what is any bolt supposed to do? 1} keep the gun locked 2} carry an effective extractor/ejector 3} lock and unlock over and over and 4} fit the gun they are used in. So why in the world does anyone need a supposedly "better" bolt that isn't? I mean, just how BAD are other name brand milspec type bolts that this bolt is appealing AT ALL? This whole fiasco really drives home the point that in the search for some minute and possibly only theoretical advantage folks are willing to put up with a lot of hassle and along the way the real and true piddly advantages of the thing even if it worked gets forgotten which is to say that the technical reality is that even if the thing did what it says it is supposed to do the advantage of the thing would be so minimal that it its value would be really pretty much nil anyhow. All good questions, and fair. I have seen many bolts break through the years, these are SUPPOSED to last much longer- and I think they will once proper heat treat is done. Just like AerMet, it's potentially a much tougher steel than C158. The steel used in ARPs superbolt (9310) is claimed to potentially be tougher also, but 9310 is trickier to heat treat. So far, the claims by Sharps (SRC) are not substantiated. Also, the design (supposedly) improves feeding. There is a thread What parts break list many bolt failures during Pat Roger's classes, and in his experiences. One of his rifles only broke one bolt in 43,000+ rounds of use, so failures can be minimized by using known (milspec) bolts. Does this matter to most? I can't answer for everyone, but I am willing to attempt proving/disproving many parts. Is any improvement worth the cost? That is only an answer we each must answer. And, sometimes things look great on paper, but reality paints a different picture. No one is taking away anyone's proven parts, they are attempting improvements. So far, this one has not panned out, I'm not giving up yet. AND, my ARP superbolts have been holding up well (so far)- as have my milspec bolts. Edit for typing correction (damned fat fingers strike again) 
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Posted: 12/3/2014 2:59:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK guys. Now let's take a big step back and really look at the issue. First, good on the company for stepping up and providing replacements, etc. That shows they have integrity in the market and that is good, but seriously.... What do these bolts claim to do in the first place? I mean, what is any bolt supposed to do? 1} keep the gun locked 2} carry an effective extractor/ejector 3} lock and unlock over and over and 4} fit the gun they are used in. So why in the world does anyone need a supposedly "better" bolt that isn't? I mean, just how BAD are other name brand milspec type bolts that this bolt is appealing AT ALL? This whole fiasco really drives home the point that in the search for some minute and possibly only theoretical advantage folks are willing to put up with a lot of hassle and along the way the real and true piddly advantages of the thing even if it worked gets forgotten which is to say that the technical reality is that even if the thing did what it says it is supposed to do the advantage of the thing would be so minimal that it its value would be really pretty much nil anyhow. By your thinking every advancement for the 1958 AR–15 has been a waste of effort. Since a stock is a stock, a pistol grip is a pistol grip, a handguard is a handguard, etc... |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 3:53:56 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
By your thinking every advancement for the 1958 AR–15 has been a waste of effort. Since a stock is a stock, a pistol grip is a pistol grip, a handguard is a handguard, etc... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
OK guys. Now let's take a big step back and really look at the issue. First, good on the company for stepping up and providing replacements, etc. That shows they have integrity in the market and that is good, but seriously.... What do these bolts claim to do in the first place? I mean, what is any bolt supposed to do? 1} keep the gun locked 2} carry an effective extractor/ejector 3} lock and unlock over and over and 4} fit the gun they are used in. So why in the world does anyone need a supposedly "better" bolt that isn't? I mean, just how BAD are other name brand milspec type bolts that this bolt is appealing AT ALL? This whole fiasco really drives home the point that in the search for some minute and possibly only theoretical advantage folks are willing to put up with a lot of hassle and along the way the real and true piddly advantages of the thing even if it worked gets forgotten which is to say that the technical reality is that even if the thing did what it says it is supposed to do the advantage of the thing would be so minimal that it its value would be really pretty much nil anyhow. By your thinking every advancement for the 1958 AR–15 has been a waste of effort. Since a stock is a stock, a pistol grip is a pistol grip, a handguard is a handguard, etc... I can see how you would say that but, not at all. Many parts really do offer something different. Take stocks for example. Many offer ergos others don't. some are just simply "stocks" which someone may need. But when I see a part that makes claims that really are dubious, and you add the cost, and whatnot, well, let's put it this way, while I agree with you that advances come with risk, some aren't worth the risk. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 4:06:13 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you have proof of this other than hearsay and any data on them actually using it, IM me. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: LWRC's ACB has been purchased (at least in small quantities) by SOCOM elements. If you have proof of this other than hearsay and any data on them actually using it, IM me. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 4:39:12 PM EDT
[#41]
OP do you have a link to the video yet?
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Posted: 12/3/2014 4:43:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can see how you would say that but, not at all. Many parts really do offer something different. Take stocks for example. Many offer ergos others don't. some are just simply "stocks" which someone may need. But when I see a part that makes claims that really are dubious, and you add the cost, and whatnot, well, let's put it this way, while I agree with you that advances come with risk, some aren't worth the risk. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
OK guys. Now let's take a big step back and really look at the issue. First, good on the company for stepping up and providing replacements, etc. That shows they have integrity in the market and that is good, but seriously.... What do these bolts claim to do in the first place? I mean, what is any bolt supposed to do? 1} keep the gun locked 2} carry an effective extractor/ejector 3} lock and unlock over and over and 4} fit the gun they are used in. So why in the world does anyone need a supposedly "better" bolt that isn't? I mean, just how BAD are other name brand milspec type bolts that this bolt is appealing AT ALL? This whole fiasco really drives home the point that in the search for some minute and possibly only theoretical advantage folks are willing to put up with a lot of hassle and along the way the real and true piddly advantages of the thing even if it worked gets forgotten which is to say that the technical reality is that even if the thing did what it says it is supposed to do the advantage of the thing would be so minimal that it its value would be really pretty much nil anyhow. By your thinking every advancement for the 1958 AR–15 has been a waste of effort. Since a stock is a stock, a pistol grip is a pistol grip, a handguard is a handguard, etc... I can see how you would say that but, not at all. Many parts really do offer something different. Take stocks for example. Many offer ergos others don't. some are just simply "stocks" which someone may need. But when I see a part that makes claims that really are dubious, and you add the cost, and whatnot, well, let's put it this way, while I agree with you that advances come with risk, some aren't worth the risk. Without risk, advancements can not happen. (i.e., Apollo Program) I agree that when the Relia-bolt was initially around $200, the cost was too high for me to give it a try due to not being able to financially chance it. But, when they ended up selling for $79.99; that price point was financially feasible for me to give it a try. Also, in 2011 the M4 PIP saw a need for an improved bolt. Sadly, this phase of the program was not seen through because in the end the bottom dollar. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 5:17:14 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can see how you would say that but, not at all. Many parts really do offer something different. Take stocks for example. Many offer ergos others don't. some are just simply "stocks" which someone may need. But when I see a part that makes claims that really are dubious, and you add the cost, and whatnot, well, let's put it this way, while I agree with you that advances come with risk, some aren't worth the risk. There are many advantages to the elongated piston style system of the modern Di AR. The worst draw back is the hot gas and blow back that comes along with it. We all know this. It's really the only thing keeping the AR from becoming the worlds greatest rifle because of the reliability issues which go along with that. So yes if ANYONE thinks they can improve that area and be as reliable as an... ak.. (YUCK).. I hope it's a possibility. |
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Posted: 12/3/2014 5:19:42 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are many advantages to the elongated piston style system of the modern Di AR. The worst draw back is the hot gas and blow back that comes along with it. We all know this. It's really the only thing keeping the AR from becoming the worlds greatest rifle because of the reliability issues which go along with that. So yes if ANYONE thinks they can improve that area and be as reliable as an... ak.. (YUCK).. I hope it's a possibility. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I can see how you would say that but, not at all. Many parts really do offer something different. Take stocks for example. Many offer ergos others don't. some are just simply "stocks" which someone may need. But when I see a part that makes claims that really are dubious, and you add the cost, and whatnot, well, let's put it this way, while I agree with you that advances come with risk, some aren't worth the risk. There are many advantages to the elongated piston style system of the modern Di AR. The worst draw back is the hot gas and blow back that comes along with it. We all know this. It's really the only thing keeping the AR from becoming the worlds greatest rifle because of the reliability issues which go along with that. So yes if ANYONE thinks they can improve that area and be as reliable as an... ak.. (YUCK).. I hope it's a possibility. OK, OK... Sorry for making you do that. I apologize. 
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Posted: 1/28/2015 11:48:57 AM EDT
[#45]
Warning: This thread contains SO MUCH SCIENCE YOUR HEAD MAY EXPLODE
After about page 5 my head was hurting...you guys should be in business doing this stuff....
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Posted: 1/28/2015 11:56:56 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are many advantages to the elongated piston style system of the modern Di AR. The worst draw back is the hot gas and blow back that comes along with it. We all know this. It's really the only thing keeping the AR from becoming the worlds greatest rifle because of the reliability issues which go along with that. So yes if ANYONE thinks they can improve that area and be as reliable as an... ak.. (YUCK).. I hope it's a possibility. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I can see how you would say that but, not at all. Many parts really do offer something different. Take stocks for example. Many offer ergos others don't. some are just simply "stocks" which someone may need. But when I see a part that makes claims that really are dubious, and you add the cost, and whatnot, well, let's put it this way, while I agree with you that advances come with risk, some aren't worth the risk. There are many advantages to the elongated piston style system of the modern Di AR. The worst draw back is the hot gas and blow back that comes along with it. We all know this. It's really the only thing keeping the AR from becoming the worlds greatest rifle because of the reliability issues which go along with that. So yes if ANYONE thinks they can improve that area and be as reliable as an... ak.. (YUCK).. I hope it's a possibility. I take it you missed the AK thread in general with LRRPF52? Lol AK reliability. Lol reliability issues from carbon fouling. |
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Posted: 1/28/2015 1:42:08 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've always said if anyone is going to challenge someone else to break a LMT Enhanced Bolt, it was going to be Blain. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I always said if someone's going to break on of those bolts, it was going to be Dysfunction.
That's exactly what my buddy said at the range as soon as we discovered the breakage. I'd like to see you try to break an LMT enhanced bolt! I've always said if anyone is going to challenge someone else to break a LMT Enhanced Bolt, it was going to be Blain. Or Nutnfancy.....
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