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Posted: 9/26/2014 1:41:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
What are the quality differences or maybe pros/cons of a Stag Arms AR vs FNH FN-15 ? I am not seeing prices drop locally to to the AR Slump, so both are within $100 of each other. The Stag is heavier due to the quadrail (which I don't really want). I may end up getting a Spike's Tactical stripped lower and going from there, but want to look at these 2 rifles. Other than an AR pistol, I have not bought an AR since the mid 1980s when Colt was the only game in town. Go with the Spikes, and build what you want. It's fun and easy. |
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Posted: 9/26/2014 7:38:32 AM EDT
[#2]
I tend to agree. But I still am looking at the easy way out.
My impression is that the FN is a quality firearm, but I do not know how the 2 brands compare...... |
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Posted: 9/26/2014 7:59:49 AM EDT
[#3]
They are both good to go.
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Posted: 9/26/2014 8:05:24 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are both good to go. This here ^ . Since nothing local is coming down, what about an online purchase? |
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Posted: 9/26/2014 8:10:23 AM EDT
[#5]
They both are GTG and get the cheaper one and get the ammo with the difference.
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Posted: 9/26/2014 9:37:13 AM EDT
[#6]
Within 100$ I would take the FN, but there is nothing wrong with a Stag either
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Posted: 9/26/2014 11:23:37 PM EDT
[#7]
FN has a great reputation in not only their components but quality control as well. Spikes is very good but the edge goes to FN.
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Posted: 9/27/2014 2:52:22 AM EDT
[#8]
The FN rifles dont use the CHF barrel thats produced for the military line and I dont know if they HP/MP test parts or if they use the specified materials in the civilian line
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Posted: 9/27/2014 4:33:12 AM EDT
[#9]
The FN-15 is not milspec, if that matters to you. Barrel is button-broached. Castle nut is not staked. Seems like a rifle assembled from sourced parts.
You could build a comparable rifle for less. You're paying a premium for the FN rollmark. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 4:46:01 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The FN-15 is not milspec, if that matters to you. Barrel is button-broached. Castle nut is not staked. Seems like a rifle assembled from sourced parts. You could build a comparable rifle for less. You're paying a premium for the FN rollmark. IMO the FN is as "mil-spec" as any. Do you know why the barrel is button rifled? (Hint: it is what "mil-spec" calls for.) Castle nut is not staked? Really, all of them? I hope you're sitting down, but FN, in all likelihood, out sources fewer parts than any. Most all ARs are built from sourced parts. We always pay more for a roll mark in every walk of life and I don't like deers for a roll mark. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 9:22:23 AM EDT
[#11]
is it HP MP tested 1195E steel,is the BCG HP MP tested is the bolt HP MP tested, is the extractor shotpeened is there permetex under the carrier key/BC surface before being staked if not then it doesnt come close to TDP specs.
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Posted: 9/27/2014 10:14:53 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go with the Spikes, and build what you want. It's fun and easy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What are the quality differences or maybe pros/cons of a Stag Arms AR vs FNH FN-15 ? I am not seeing prices drop locally to to the AR Slump, so both are within $100 of each other. The Stag is heavier due to the quadrail (which I don't really want). I may end up getting a Spike's Tactical stripped lower and going from there, but want to look at these 2 rifles. Other than an AR pistol, I have not bought an AR since the mid 1980s when Colt was the only game in town. Go with the Spikes, and build what you want. It's fun and easy. This! I'll add however I'd get the Spikes "Punisher" logo'd lower however.  I'd much rather build to exactly to what I wanted as it is usually cheaper than buying something then adding or taking away parts to make it the one you want. That said, if this is your first AR, then I would get a complete standard middy or carbine, shoot the shit out of it, and find what you like and change what you don't on your next build...
To answer your original question as to Stag vs. FN... Man, both are going to be very solid. Get whichever one you can find for the cheapest. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 10:16:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FN has a great reputation in not only their components but quality control as well. Spikes is very good but the edge goes to FN. Do tell... |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 11:47:05 AM EDT
[#14]
Stag is right about equal to my Rock River. The more I've learned about AR's, the more and more disappointed I am with the Rock River. Even though it's just an old backup now, I've still considered replacing it.
FN is equal or better than Colt. I'd get the FN, save myself from buying twice. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 1:22:24 PM EDT
[#15]
FN is not equal to colt they dont use tested parts , its not equal to BCM,LMT,Spikes....until I see for sure that some one can show they use the same materials and testing as has to be done for what they supply to the government.If there equal then im sure theyll say and show how there parts are tested and what materials they are made from like spikes did way back and BCM otherwise your buying a roll mark.
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Posted: 9/27/2014 1:37:07 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMO the FN is as "mil-spec" as any. Do you know why the barrel is button rifled? (Hint: it is what "mil-spec" calls for.) Castle nut is not staked? Really, all of them? I hope you're sitting down, but FN, in all likelihood, out sources fewer parts than any. Most all ARs are built from sourced parts. We always pay more for a roll mark in every walk of life and I don't like deers for a roll mark. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The FN-15 is not milspec, if that matters to you. Barrel is button-broached. Castle nut is not staked. Seems like a rifle assembled from sourced parts. You could build a comparable rifle for less. You're paying a premium for the FN rollmark. IMO the FN is as "mil-spec" as any. Do you know why the barrel is button rifled? (Hint: it is what "mil-spec" calls for.) Castle nut is not staked? Really, all of them? I hope you're sitting down, but FN, in all likelihood, out sources fewer parts than any. Most all ARs are built from sourced parts. We always pay more for a roll mark in every walk of life and I don't like deers for a roll mark. In order to get around the legalities of selling a civilian AR-15, FN had to completely separate their commercial and military branches. They are not allowed to use the M4 TDP in any way in order to legally produce a civilian AR. Does that mean they don't fudge the tolerances a tiny bit to get past that? I don't know. FN has said that they have the same people who have worked and test fired their military production rifles work on the FN-15. I don't know what that specifically entails either. It's entirely possible that they convinced whatever oversight entity that they reverse engineered everything through their commercial arm. However, at this point, as far as specs go, FN has not been very forthcoming. As far as the rifle itself, I had one. Standard CAR buffer. Castle nut was not staked. Unknown fire control group (not schmidt). 6K buffer tube. Others have said the selector is the same source as DD's. It supports the theory that FN has had to source outside parts to get around the TDP. All I'm saying is, if these things are important to you, then FN is not the way to go. It is neither good or bad, though maybe a tad overpriced. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 1:14:27 AM EDT
[#17]
I see a few of the Colt lovers are back and in form. Its a shame they lack knowledge and accuracy in their statements regarding other products yet they speak as though they know everything (which they don't)
For those who have forgotten, Colt has had issues over the years with their quality control due to financial difficulties. FN has never had the quality control issues like Colts problematic history. The result is FN produces the M16 and M4 for the US Armed Forces. 1) The FN is as close to mil-spec as any other AR available to the general public. 2) Mil-Spec barrels are "button-broached", this includes FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. 3) FN has superior quality control to virtually any other manufacturer. Stag, Rock River, Bushmaster, etc. are considered second tier and FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. are considered first tier. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 1:17:16 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The FN rifles dont use the CHF barrel thats produced for the military line and I dont know if they HP/MP test parts or if they use the specified materials in the civilian line None of the military's M4's or M16's have CHF barrels...Mil-Spec calls for "button-broached" barrels.
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Posted: 9/29/2014 1:37:28 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see a few of the Colt lovers are back and in form. Its a shame they lack knowledge and accuracy in their statements regarding other products yet they speak as though they know everything (which they don't) For those who have forgotten, Colt has had issues over the years with their quality control due to financial difficulties. FN has never had the quality control issues like Colts problematic history. The result is FN produces the M16 and M4 for the US Armed Forces. 1) The FN is as close to mil-spec as any other AR available to the general public. 2) Mil-Spec barrels are "button-broached", this includes FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. 3) FN has superior quality control to virtually any other manufacturer. Stag, Rock River, Bushmaster, etc. are considered second tier and FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. are considered first tier. Do you have a document that states FNH gained some of the contracts for M16s and M4s because of Colt QC? Who makes the tiers? How does a manufacturer get placed on a tier? What are qualifications for the different tiers? Do you have return rates from each manufacturer, where FNH has the least returns for defects? Do you have specific knowledge of the FNH commerical rifles, and what specifications they are manufactured to? Since you accuse others of lacking knowledge and accuracy let's see some REAL SOURCES for your statements. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 2:08:47 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see a few of the Colt lovers are back and in form. Its a shame they lack knowledge and accuracy in their statements regarding other products yet they speak as though they know everything (which they don't) For those who have forgotten, Colt has had issues over the years with their quality control due to financial difficulties. FN has never had the quality control issues like Colts problematic history. The result is FN produces the M16 and M4 for the US Armed Forces. 1) The FN is as close to mil-spec as any other AR available to the general public. 2) Mil-Spec barrels are "button-broached", this includes FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. 3) FN has superior quality control to virtually any other manufacturer. Stag, Rock River, Bushmaster, etc. are considered second tier and FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. are considered first tier. FN commercial and FN military are two different entities. The rifles produced for the military are not made semi-auto and shipped out for commercial sales like the Colts are/were (to put it very simply). They are two different plants. I follow you on the FN military arm, but I cannot definitively say that FN commercial is up there with Colt, BCM, LMT, or DD based on my observations. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 2:58:09 AM EDT
[#21]
If I remember right Stag's parent company is CMT and they make parts for a bunch of different companies. Either should be good to go. I have several Stags with no issue. I have no FN's but they make some really nice rifles that get used heavily
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Posted: 9/29/2014 8:16:54 AM EDT
[#22]
WOW! Lots of speculation and advice and we don't even know what Stag model the OP is comparing. It could be a Model 1, 2T or 3G. Makes a pretty big difference.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:10:58 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For those who have forgotten, Colt has had issues over the years with their quality control due to financial difficulties. FN has never had the quality control issues like Colts problematic history. The result is FN produces the M16 and M4 for the US Armed Forces. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I see a few of the Colt lovers are back and in form. Its a shame they lack knowledge and accuracy in their statements regarding other products yet they speak as though they know everything (which they don't) For those who have forgotten, Colt has had issues over the years with their quality control due to financial difficulties. FN has never had the quality control issues like Colts problematic history. The result is FN produces the M16 and M4 for the US Armed Forces. 1) The FN is as close to mil-spec as any other AR available to the general public. 2) Mil-Spec barrels are "button-broached", this includes FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. 3) FN has superior quality control to virtually any other manufacturer. Stag, Rock River, Bushmaster, etc. are considered second tier and FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. are considered first tier. Do you have a document that states FNH gained some of the contracts for M16s and M4s because of Colt QC? Who makes the tiers? How does a manufacturer get placed on a tier? What are qualifications for the different tiers? Do you have return rates from each manufacturer, where FNH has the least returns for defects? Do you have specific knowledge of the FNH commerical rifles, and what specifications they are manufactured to? Since you accuse others of lacking knowledge and accuracy let's see some REAL SOURCES for your statements. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:23:27 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For those who have forgotten, Colt has had issues over the years with their quality control due to financial difficulties. FN has never had the quality control issues like Colts problematic history. The result is FN produces the M16 and M4 for the US Armed Forces. 1) The FN is as close to mil-spec as any other AR available to the general public. 2) Mil-Spec barrels are "button-broached", this includes FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. 3) FN has superior quality control to virtually any other manufacturer. Stag, Rock River, Bushmaster, etc. are considered second tier and FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. are considered first tier. What are your sources for these claims? Do you have a document that states FNH gained some of the contracts for M16s and M4s because of Colt QC? Who makes the tiers? How does a manufacturer get placed on a tier? What are qualifications for the different tiers? Do you have return rates from each manufacturer, where FNH has the least returns for defects? Do you have specific knowledge of the FNH commerical rifles, and what specifications they are manufactured to? Since you accuse others of lacking knowledge and accuracy let's see some REAL SOURCES for your statements. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I see a few of the Colt lovers are back and in form. Its a shame they lack knowledge and accuracy in their statements regarding other products yet they speak as though they know everything (which they don't) 1) The FN is as close to mil-spec as any other AR available to the general public. 2) Mil-Spec barrels are "button-broached", this includes FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. 3) FN has superior quality control to virtually any other manufacturer. Stag, Rock River, Bushmaster, etc. are considered second tier and FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. are considered first tier. What are your sources for these claims? Do you have a document that states FNH gained some of the contracts for M16s and M4s because of Colt QC? Who makes the tiers? How does a manufacturer get placed on a tier? What are qualifications for the different tiers? Do you have return rates from each manufacturer, where FNH has the least returns for defects? Do you have specific knowledge of the FNH commerical rifles, and what specifications they are manufactured to? Since you accuse others of lacking knowledge and accuracy let's see some REAL SOURCES for your statements. I have seen the document that FNH doesn't make M16s and M4s for the military Look on the side of an FN M16 and tell me if it says FNH..... It says FNMI makes M16s and M4s, not FNH |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:32:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1) The FN is as close to mil-spec as any other AR available to the general public. Quote HistoryQuoted: What are your sources for these claims? Quoted: Quoted: I see a few of the Colt lovers are back and in form. Its a shame they lack knowledge and accuracy in their statements regarding other products yet they speak as though they know everything (which they don't) For those who have forgotten, Colt has had issues over the years with their quality control due to financial difficulties. FN has never had the quality control issues like Colts problematic history. The result is FN produces the M16 and M4 for the US Armed Forces. 1) The FN is as close to mil-spec as any other AR available to the general public. 2) Mil-Spec barrels are "button-broached", this includes FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. 3) FN has superior quality control to virtually any other manufacturer. Stag, Rock River, Bushmaster, etc. are considered second tier and FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. are considered first tier. Do you have a document that states FNH gained some of the contracts for M16s and M4s because of Colt QC? Who makes the tiers? How does a manufacturer get placed on a tier? What are qualifications for the different tiers? Do you have return rates from each manufacturer, where FNH has the least returns for defects? Do you have specific knowledge of the FNH commerical rifles, and what specifications they are manufactured to? Since you accuse others of lacking knowledge and accuracy let's see some REAL SOURCES for your statements. Will if it isn't Mr. Know it all again...the little boy that has never served his country and goes around demanding everyone do the research and prove to him how little he knows. Obviously, you either too lazy to do anything yourself or you lack the ability to find the answers on your own. More importantly where not here to do your work for you and your a waste of our valuable time demanding that we do the work to prove to you just how little you know. So. may I suggest you sign up and serve your country or do the research on your own. Either way your will learn what we already know...that your not as smart as you think you are. "[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt's_Manufacturing_Company]In 1985, Colt's workers, members of the United Auto Workers went on strike for higher wages. This strike would ultimately last for five years, and was one of the longest running labor strikes in American history.[53] With replacement workers running production, the quality of Colt's firearms began to decline, Dissatisfied with Colt's production, in 1988 the U.S. military awarded the contract for future M16 production to Fabrique Nationale.[/url][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt's_Manufacturing_Company][54[/url]]" The rest you can find on your own. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:38:04 PM EDT
[#26]
Woops. wrong thread
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:42:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FN commercial and FN military are two different entities. The rifles produced for the military are not made semi-auto and shipped out for commercial sales like the Colts are/were (to put it very simply). They are two different plants. I follow you on the FN military arm, but I cannot definitively say that FN commercial is up there with Colt, BCM, LMT, or DD based on my observations. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I see a few of the Colt lovers are back and in form. Its a shame they lack knowledge and accuracy in their statements regarding other products yet they speak as though they know everything (which they don't) For those who have forgotten, Colt has had issues over the years with their quality control due to financial difficulties. FN has never had the quality control issues like Colts problematic history. The result is FN produces the M16 and M4 for the US Armed Forces. 1) The FN is as close to mil-spec as any other AR available to the general public. 2) Mil-Spec barrels are "button-broached", this includes FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. 3) FN has superior quality control to virtually any other manufacturer. Stag, Rock River, Bushmaster, etc. are considered second tier and FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. are considered first tier. FN commercial and FN military are two different entities. The rifles produced for the military are not made semi-auto and shipped out for commercial sales like the Colts are/were (to put it very simply). They are two different plants. I follow you on the FN military arm, but I cannot definitively say that FN commercial is up there with Colt, BCM, LMT, or DD based on my observations. Actually there made at the same plant just different areas to prevent the commercial and military from being mixed. As far as the specs go they are available online (have to do some digging) and are right there with other tier 1 commercial AR's. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:00:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually there made at the same plant just different areas to prevent the commercial and military from being mixed. as far as the specs go they are available online (have to do some digging) and are right there with other tier 1 commercial AR's Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I see a few of the Colt lovers are back and in form. Its a shame they lack knowledge and accuracy in their statements regarding other products yet they speak as though they know everything (which they don't) For those who have forgotten, Colt has had issues over the years with their quality control due to financial difficulties. FN has never had the quality control issues like Colts problematic history. The result is FN produces the M16 and M4 for the US Armed Forces. 1) The FN is as close to mil-spec as any other AR available to the general public. 2) Mil-Spec barrels are "button-broached", this includes FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. 3) FN has superior quality control to virtually any other manufacturer. Stag, Rock River, Bushmaster, etc. are considered second tier and FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. are considered first tier. FN commercial and FN military are two different entities. The rifles produced for the military are not made semi-auto and shipped out for commercial sales like the Colts are/were (to put it very simply). They are two different plants. I follow you on the FN military arm, but I cannot definitively say that FN commercial is up there with Colt, BCM, LMT, or DD based on my observations. Actually there made at the same plant just different areas to prevent the commercial and military from being mixed. as far as the specs go they are available online (have to do some digging) and are right there with other tier 1 commercial AR's Please link to those specs. I had one and they are not even milspec. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:19:17 PM EDT
[#29]
None of the commercial AR's are Mil-Spec. What do you consider to not be Mil-Spec on your FN?
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:39:31 PM EDT
[#30]
FN makes a good AR.
Stag makes a good AR. Wikipedia is a crappy source. CHF barrels are better hard use barrels, when purchased by the two major manufacturers, any day of the week over a true milspec barrel. This pissing contest cannot be won because too much opinion is involved.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:52:47 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FN makes a good AR. Stag makes a good AR. Wikipedia is a crappy source. CHF barrels are better hard use barrels, when purchased by the two major manufacturers, any day of the week over a true milspec barrel. This pissing contest cannot be won because too much opinion is involved. You have to wonder why people even have the pissing contest rather then just agreeing that their both GTG!
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Posted: 9/30/2014 4:14:56 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have seen the document that FNH doesn't make M16s and M4s for the military Look on the side of an FN M16 and tell me if it says FNH..... It says FNMI makes M16s and M4s, not FNH Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I see a few of the Colt lovers are back and in form. Its a shame they lack knowledge and accuracy in their statements regarding other products yet they speak as though they know everything (which they don't) 1) The FN is as close to mil-spec as any other AR available to the general public. 2) Mil-Spec barrels are "button-broached", this includes FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. 3) FN has superior quality control to virtually any other manufacturer. Stag, Rock River, Bushmaster, etc. are considered second tier and FN, Colt, BCM, LMT, etc. are considered first tier. What are your sources for these claims? Do you have a document that states FNH gained some of the contracts for M16s and M4s because of Colt QC? Who makes the tiers? How does a manufacturer get placed on a tier? What are qualifications for the different tiers? Do you have return rates from each manufacturer, where FNH has the least returns for defects? Do you have specific knowledge of the FNH commerical rifles, and what specifications they are manufactured to? Since you accuse others of lacking knowledge and accuracy let's see some REAL SOURCES for your statements. I have seen the document that FNH doesn't make M16s and M4s for the military Look on the side of an FN M16 and tell me if it says FNH..... It says FNMI makes M16s and M4s, not FNH Certain members repeatedly make claims with nothing to back it up.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 4:57:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Then discount them and move on...or go find out for yourself.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:31:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Both GTG. I love my Stag, I'm sure I would be happy with one made by FN. Pick a roll-mark, they are both good rifles.
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Posted: 10/1/2014 8:49:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are your sources for these claims? Do you have a document that states FNH gained some of the contracts for M16s and M4s because of Colt QC? Who makes the tiers? How does a manufacturer get placed on a tier? What are qualifications for the different tiers? Do you have return rates from each manufacturer, where FNH has the least returns for defects? Do you have specific knowledge of the FNH commerical rifles, and what specifications they are manufactured to? Since you accuse others of lacking knowledge and accuracy let's see some REAL SOURCES for your statements. There sure are a few cheeky people on here. FNMI is the military division and FNH is the civilian division. Don't known the details but when I joined in the 80's Colt was in trouble due to a lot of rejects. Doubt its the only factor that caused the switch but common sense says it didn't help them, especially with gov. contracts which can be tough. Library of Congress would be my guess as a starting place for documentation...although something like that would probably be in the media. |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 3:11:55 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stag is right about equal to my Rock River. The more I've learned about AR's, the more and more disappointed I am with the Rock River. Even though it's just an old backup now, I've still considered replacing it. FN is equal or better than Colt. I'd get the FN, save myself from buying twice. Are you disappointed with it's accuracy? I shoot all six of my different AR rifles at 100 yards and my Rock River is my most accurate AR rife! |
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Posted: 10/2/2014 3:33:21 AM EDT
[#37]
With everything said their are so many variables. You could buy two rifles from the same manufacturer and have huge differences. The fact is Stag makes a very good product but FN is known for making and exceptional product. Based on the OPs minimal info, I would say go with what he can afford and he wouldn't be disappointed..
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Posted: 10/2/2014 5:12:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Go with the FN.
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Posted: 10/2/2014 8:32:40 AM EDT
[#39]
Tons of BS being slung around. I'm involved with the company that produces FN BCG's. Never had such stringent specs to follow then FN. Quality parts or no parts at all. To the OP, both are GTG.
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Posted: 10/2/2014 10:47:12 AM EDT
[#40]
You can't go wrong with either Stag or FN.
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