User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/18/2014 8:57:59 AM EDT
I picked up a 9310 MPI bolt and experienced this failure around 250 rounds. Bolt was in a Les Baer carrier (made by Young Mfg. from what I can tell) in a BCM upper shooting m855. I've seen posts where people have had lugs break like this but this failure was accompanied by a blown gas ring. Also, there's a ring around the bolt where it looks polished from moving back and forth in the carrier. My other 3 bcgs don't have any wear like this. I put a different bolt in the Les Baer carrier and it feels a little tighter than my others which has me wondering if the carrier contributed to the failure. It seems unlikely that the lug broke from the carrier but the wearing and blown gas ring make me wonder.
Pic 1 Pic 2 |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2014 9:04:36 AM EDT
[#1]
Since you're using google photos it's really easy to post here photos. Just go to the google photos app and right click on the picture. It will have a copy image url click on that and then paste in in the little black image box here when you are posting. It has a little mountain on it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2014 9:04:44 AM EDT
[#2]
wow that looks pretty bad. good thing nothing really bad happened and you get to shoot another day. I've never had any failures in my guns.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2014 9:07:01 AM EDT
[#3]
Who manufactured the bolt? I would guess improper heat treat given resulting in an early failure.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2014 9:07:33 AM EDT
[#4]
That rings looks blown in the first picture. The lugs next to the extractor are the most commonly broken ones.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2014 10:02:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That rings looks blown in the first picture. The lugs next to the extractor are the most commonly broken ones. Time to try the relia bolt. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2014 10:08:53 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Time to try the relia bolt. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That rings looks blown in the first picture. The lugs next to the extractor are the most commonly broken ones. Time to try the relia bolt. How many rounds do you have on one of those? OP, get a DD BCG for now |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2014 10:21:59 AM EDT
[#7]
Thanks for the replies. Bolt was Rainier Arms and they've been great, sending me a new bolt as we speak but I did pick up a new BCM bolt as well. These things happen and I wasn't even going to post until I saw the blown gas ring and noticed what looks like excessive wear. I've seen threads about broken lugs and others about blown gas rings but not at the same time. Do you think the failures are related?
And thanks for the tip about the pictures, first time sharing with Google Drive. I tried putting the image address in the [img] brackets bit it didn't show. Maybe I have a privacy setting wrong with my Drive account. I'll have to fool with it when I get home tonight. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2014 11:37:45 AM EDT
[#8]
What's the barrel/gas system configuration?
Severe overgassing in a high pressure gas system configuration could have led to the blown gas ring, and locking lug shearing is generally due to lateral stress which would be increased in such a situation as well. If you have some external issue that caused or accelerated the premature bolt failure, best to identify that issue before you put in another bolt and put the rifle back into use. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2014 1:52:19 PM EDT
[#9]
I was going to ask if it was one from Rainier. I see you already posted it was. I have one I just got a couple months ago. I only have around 150 rounds on mine so far. I'm glad they are taking care of you.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2014 6:17:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Upper is a BCM 16" mid-length. It seemed to eject in the same direction as my other ARs and was built by BCM so over gassing never crossed my mind.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/18/2014 7:08:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Is that the $40 on sale rainier bolt?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2014 1:16:43 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that the $40 on sale rainier bolt? Why would you say that? I see no markings on the bolt |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2014 4:13:23 AM EDT
[#13]
I'm not sure 9310 can be Parkerized. Are you sure that is a 9310 bolt?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2014 4:36:45 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who exactly did you buy that bolt from? It appears from the pictures that it's Parkerized. If that's the case, it's not 9310 alloy steel. Like other stainless alloys, 9310 has to much nickel and/or chrome and can't be Parkerized. http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B6tisv_jRwAjN0pqNDRlZlM4UU0 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I picked up a 9310 MPI bolt and experienced this failure around 250 rounds. Who exactly did you buy that bolt from? It appears from the pictures that it's Parkerized. If that's the case, it's not 9310 alloy steel. Like other stainless alloys, 9310 has to much nickel and/or chrome and can't be Parkerized. http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B6tisv_jRwAjN0pqNDRlZlM4UU0 I've got THIS 9310 from Aim-Surplus and it's definitely Parkerized... |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2014 4:41:23 AM EDT
[#15]
looks like it could be mealurgical but when lugs go its usually the ones left and right of the extractor.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2014 5:23:42 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
I picked up a 9310 MPI bolt and experienced this failure around 250 rounds. Bolt was in a Les Baer carrier (made by Young Mfg. from what I can tell) in a BCM upper shooting m855. I've seen posts where people have had lugs break like this but this failure was accompanied by a blown gas ring. Also, there's a ring around the bolt where it looks polished from moving back and forth in the carrier. My other 3 bcgs don't have any wear like this. I put a different bolt in the Les Baer carrier and it feels a little tighter than my others which has me wondering if the carrier contributed to the failure. It seems unlikely that the lug broke from the carrier but the wearing and blown gas ring make me wonder. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B09T1daaMlWddjkxRGtubEpqVFU/edit?usp=docslist_api https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B09T1daaMlWdbHZtTndNMzQ1dFk/edit?usp=docslist_api Pic 1 Pic 2 Capital, Even the best can produce a bad bolt. Why don't you get a nice ss or chrome version and then you'll have a nice hybrid that'll be better in the long run. Just replace the gas rings and bolt and your back in business!!! Impala |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2014 6:21:27 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I picked up a 9310 MPI bolt and experienced this failure around 250 rounds. Who exactly did you buy that bolt from? It appears from the pictures that it's Parkerized. If that's the case, it's not 9310 alloy steel. Like other stainless alloys, 9310 has to much nickel and/or chrome and can't be Parkerized. http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B6tisv_jRwAjN0pqNDRlZlM4UU0 I've got THIS 9310 from Aim-Surplus and it's definitely Parkerized... I edited my original reply to back off my ascertain that 9310 couldn't be Parkerized as it has the same chrome/nickel content as C158. I wouldn't buy anything from AIM on a bet. 9310 is pretty pricey. I'm having trouble wrapping my arms around AIM's ability to deliver a 9310 bolt group to the market for $80. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 12:09:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I edited my original reply to back off my ascertain that 9310 couldn't be Parkerized as it has the same chrome/nickel content as C158. I wouldn't buy anything from AIM on a bet. 9310 is pretty pricey. I'm having trouble wrapping my arms around AIM's ability to deliver a 9310 bolt group to the market for $80. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I picked up a 9310 MPI bolt and experienced this failure around 250 rounds. Who exactly did you buy that bolt from? It appears from the pictures that it's Parkerized. If that's the case, it's not 9310 alloy steel. Like other stainless alloys, 9310 has to much nickel and/or chrome and can't be Parkerized. http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B6tisv_jRwAjN0pqNDRlZlM4UU0 I've got THIS 9310 from Aim-Surplus and it's definitely Parkerized... I edited my original reply to back off my ascertain that 9310 couldn't be Parkerized as it has the same chrome/nickel content as C158. I wouldn't buy anything from AIM on a bet. 9310 is pretty pricey. I'm having trouble wrapping my arms around AIM's ability to deliver a 9310 bolt group to the market for $80. Why wouldn't you "buy anything from Aim on a bet?" Unless you know something I don't. I've been doing business withAIM-Surplus for years and they have always sold me legit/Mil-Spec AR15 products. It's not like they are PSA, selling 8620 bolt heads that you have to read the fine print/disclaimer scrupulously or your stuck with something that's inferior and use it as a paper weight. (Yes that happened to me during the panic and it's used as a paper weight.) Aim isn't the only one selling 9310 bolts for a competitive price right now. Have you had bad experiences with AIM or their product offerings CAC01??? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 12:14:12 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I edited my original reply to back off my ascertain that 9310 couldn't be Parkerized as it has the same chrome/nickel content as C158. I wouldn't buy anything from AIM on a bet. 9310 is pretty pricey. I'm having trouble wrapping my arms around AIM's ability to deliver a 9310 bolt group to the market for $80. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I picked up a 9310 MPI bolt and experienced this failure around 250 rounds. Who exactly did you buy that bolt from? It appears from the pictures that it's Parkerized. If that's the case, it's not 9310 alloy steel. Like other stainless alloys, 9310 has to much nickel and/or chrome and can't be Parkerized. http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B6tisv_jRwAjN0pqNDRlZlM4UU0 I've got THIS 9310 from Aim-Surplus and it's definitely Parkerized... I edited my original reply to back off my ascertain that 9310 couldn't be Parkerized as it has the same chrome/nickel content as C158. I wouldn't buy anything from AIM on a bet. 9310 is pretty pricey. I'm having trouble wrapping my arms around AIM's ability to deliver a 9310 bolt group to the market for $80. Speculation and slander doesn't belong in a tech forum.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 12:36:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why wouldn't you "buy anything from Aim on a bet?" Unless you know something I don't. I've been doing business withAIM-Surplus for years and they have always sold me legit/Mil-Spec AR15 products. It's not like they are PSA, selling 8620 bolt heads that you have to read the fine print/disclaimer scrupulously or your stuck with something that's inferior and use it as a paper weight. (Yes that happened to me during the panic and it's used as a paper weight.) Aim isn't the only one selling 9310 bolts for a competitive price right now. Have you had bad experiences with AIM or their product offerings CAC01??? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I picked up a 9310 MPI bolt and experienced this failure around 250 rounds. Who exactly did you buy that bolt from? It appears from the pictures that it's Parkerized. If that's the case, it's not 9310 alloy steel. Like other stainless alloys, 9310 has to much nickel and/or chrome and can't be Parkerized. http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B6tisv_jRwAjN0pqNDRlZlM4UU0 I've got THIS 9310 from Aim-Surplus and it's definitely Parkerized... I edited my original reply to back off my ascertain that 9310 couldn't be Parkerized as it has the same chrome/nickel content as C158. I wouldn't buy anything from AIM on a bet. 9310 is pretty pricey. I'm having trouble wrapping my arms around AIM's ability to deliver a 9310 bolt group to the market for $80. Why wouldn't you "buy anything from Aim on a bet?" Unless you know something I don't. I've been doing business withAIM-Surplus for years and they have always sold me legit/Mil-Spec AR15 products. It's not like they are PSA, selling 8620 bolt heads that you have to read the fine print/disclaimer scrupulously or your stuck with something that's inferior and use it as a paper weight. (Yes that happened to me during the panic and it's used as a paper weight.) Aim isn't the only one selling 9310 bolts for a competitive price right now. Have you had bad experiences with AIM or their product offerings CAC01??? Is it your reading skills or comprehension that made it difficult to understand they were 8620 bolts? Those were the only bolts available to anyone at the time. PSA in no way shape or form tried to trick anyone into buying those bolts. They clearly labeled them as 8620. I guess that's what they get for trying to keep shooters at the range instead of behind a computer screen. O.P. Bolts are going to break. Usually not that soon but freakish shit happens. Spare bolts are small and pack well. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 12:59:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why wouldn't you "buy anything from Aim on a bet?" Unless you know something I don't. I've been doing business withAIM-Surplus for years and they have always sold me legit/Mil-Spec AR15 products. It's not like they are PSA, selling 8620 bolt heads that you have to read the fine print/disclaimer scrupulously or your stuck with something that's inferior and use it as a paper weight. (Yes that happened to me during the panic and it's used as a paper weight.) Aim isn't the only one selling 9310 bolts for a competitive price right now. Have you had bad experiences with AIM or their product offerings CAC01??? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I picked up a 9310 MPI bolt and experienced this failure around 250 rounds. Who exactly did you buy that bolt from? It appears from the pictures that it's Parkerized. If that's the case, it's not 9310 alloy steel. Like other stainless alloys, 9310 has to much nickel and/or chrome and can't be Parkerized. http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B6tisv_jRwAjN0pqNDRlZlM4UU0 I've got THIS 9310 from Aim-Surplus and it's definitely Parkerized... I edited my original reply to back off my ascertain that 9310 couldn't be Parkerized as it has the same chrome/nickel content as C158. I wouldn't buy anything from AIM on a bet. 9310 is pretty pricey. I'm having trouble wrapping my arms around AIM's ability to deliver a 9310 bolt group to the market for $80. Why wouldn't you "buy anything from Aim on a bet?" Unless you know something I don't. I've been doing business withAIM-Surplus for years and they have always sold me legit/Mil-Spec AR15 products. It's not like they are PSA, selling 8620 bolt heads that you have to read the fine print/disclaimer scrupulously or your stuck with something that's inferior and use it as a paper weight. (Yes that happened to me during the panic and it's used as a paper weight.) Aim isn't the only one selling 9310 bolts for a competitive price right now. Have you had bad experiences with AIM or their product offerings CAC01??? This. Brian has been a stand-up guy for a LONG time now. His reputation is damn good and I'm unwilling to believe he'd risk it, if he didn't believe in the bolts he's selling. They's no upside for him to sell shit bolts. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 1:17:36 PM EDT
[#22]
9310 is cheaper than Carpenter 158. It is not pricey. Even the more expensive 158 is only like $10 of the price of a bolt.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 2:53:54 PM EDT
[#23]
Did you wipe off that bolt before you took pictures? That thing looks BONE dry.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 3:07:23 PM EDT
[#24]
9310 if not heat treated right can become brittle
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 3:28:42 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
9310 if not heat treated right can become brittle That is exactly what I am thinking. Markim over at TOS had a Rainer 9310 bolt fail at around 2K rounds. It snapped lugs and and both were on the same side of the extractor, not opposite as is the usual case. I bet whoever made these for Rainer heat treated them like they were Carpenter 158. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 3:48:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Got me concerned now. I have 3 BCG's from Rainier. I don't have many rounds on any of them.
I shot Rainier an e-mail We will see what they say. Rainier has good CS. I'm sure any issue will be taken care of. Dave N |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 4:48:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
9310 if not heat treated right can become brittle A proper heat treat is important to any bolt, 9310 is not alone in that regard. Many steels get too hard (brittle) with too much heat, not tough enough with too little heat. Time is also a factor for proper H.T. The H.T. is trickier with 9310, but anyone offering 9310 should ensure the treater is doing a proper job- it is not that hard with modern equipment and knowledge. The same principals apply whether it is a knife blade or bolt (or any number of parts). 9310 is not an inferior steel to C158, it also does not require as large of a purchase to acquire- C158 often requires purchase of an entire mill run. Whatever steel is used (for any bolt) needs a proper heat treat for long term durability. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 5:08:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
9310 if not heat treated right can become brittle This. All the speculation should end right now. 9310 steel CAN be very strong but it is very dependent on how it is heat treated. If done wrong, it will be quite brittle and end up failing with a low round count. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 5:49:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
9310 if not heat treated right can become brittle Uh...pretty much any steel if improperly heat treated can be left brittle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2014 7:40:26 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless you have something to substantiate your claim that AIM is lying about their bolt material, you should probably keep it to yourself. Speculation and slander doesn't belong in a tech forum. Seriously? Where exactly did I say that AIM was lying about anything. That being said, there is nothing slanderous or speculative about my comment. I've been around long enough to see the shenanigans that come and go in the firearms industry. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 3:44:53 AM EDT
[#31]
Your bolt was probably not MPI tested. Make sure you buy BCGs from people that MPI test EVERY one. Some don't do it at all, some only do it in small batches.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 7:55:45 AM EDT
[#32]
I realize these things happen and only posted because I found the combination of broken lug, blown gas ring and wear pattern odd and thought someone else would find it interesting as well.
To reiterate Rainier has been great and I in no way posted this with intentions of questioning their products. I will definitely continue to order from them in the future. Also, this bolt was bought back in December of 2012 and although not shown in pictures is marked "MPI" if that information is of any use. And yes, the bolt is dry from cleaning in anticipation of shipping it back to Rainier and taking pictures. I always run my guns wet with Slip EWL 2000. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 8:24:27 AM EDT
[#33]
MPI is a snap shot. Test away but there are no guarantees they will be trouble free. Feed one some hot loads in short brass and slm the bolt enough things break. The process is nice but I have never blown a non-MPI set up...yet. The sellers are doing well replacing problematic parts and should be applauded for their CS.
Greg |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 11:05:51 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your bolt was probably not MPI tested. Make sure you buy BCGs from people that MPI test EVERY one. Some don't do it at all, some only do it in small batches. As discussed exhaustively in the past, MPI is essentially useless for detecting heat treatment problems which is overwhelmingly the cause of most premature AR15 bolt failures regardless of the type of steel. The only way to detect heat treatment problems is destructive testing of material samples from each heat treat batch. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 11:42:55 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Got me concerned now. I have 3 BCG's from Rainier. I don't have many rounds on any of them. I shot Rainier an e-mail We will see what they say. Rainier has good CS. I'm sure any issue will be taken care of. Dave N I have 2 of their bolts I bought as spares, hoping on some good news. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 2:27:00 PM EDT
[#36]
Went to the range today and shot 120 rounds on 2 Rainier BCG's. No issue so far.
Spoke with Rainier. They assured me there was nothing to be concerned about. Dave N |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 3:03:10 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why wouldn't you "buy anything from Aim on a bet?" Unless you know something I don't. I've been doing business withAIM-Surplus for years and they have always sold me legit/Mil-Spec AR15 products. It's not like they are PSA, selling 8620 bolt heads that you have to read the fine print/disclaimer scrupulously or your stuck with something that's inferior and use it as a paper weight. (Yes that happened to me during the panic and it's used as a paper weight.) Aim isn't the only one selling 9310 bolts for a competitive price right now. Have you had bad experiences with AIM or their product offerings CAC01??? Is it your reading skills or comprehension that made it difficult to understand they were 8620 bolts? Those were the only bolts available to anyone at the time. PSA in no way shape or form tried to trick anyone into buying those bolts. They clearly labeled them as 8620. I guess that's what they get for trying to keep shooters at the range instead of behind a computer screen. O.P. Bolts are going to break. Usually not that soon but freakish shit happens. Spare bolts are small and pack well. Settle down Francis... My mistake was believing someone would even sell bullshit like that. So I didn't bother to read the fine print and that was on me and I didn't try to return it because of that. But BCM, Spikes, AIM-Surplus etc sure as hell wouldn't sell that gargabe... I apologize if I offended you by slamming your "precious", PSA... Um, wait, no I'm not... |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 3:26:42 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As discussed exhaustively in the past, MPI is essentially useless for detecting heat treatment problems which is overwhelmingly the cause of most premature AR15 bolt failures regardless of the type of steel. The only way to detect heat treatment problems is destructive testing of material samples from each heat treat batch. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Your bolt was probably not MPI tested. Make sure you buy BCGs from people that MPI test EVERY one. Some don't do it at all, some only do it in small batches. As discussed exhaustively in the past, MPI is essentially useless for detecting heat treatment problems which is overwhelmingly the cause of most premature AR15 bolt failures regardless of the type of steel. The only way to detect heat treatment problems is destructive testing of material samples from each heat treat batch. What makes you so sure its a heat treat issue? What about material makeup in the steel? Granted I am not in the gun parts making industry but in my industry which is known for being very lean and methodically controlled problems are generally caused by raw materials. In plastics this could be viscosity variations that changes how it flows, in metals this could be changes in its composition. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 4:08:53 PM EDT
[#39]
I've always wondered how 4140 would make it as a bolt material.
We used S7 in making bolts at Barrett and that material withstood the pressures of the .50 extremely well. In one of the bolt threads not long ago, BadazzAR from Spikes said he was going to try S7 and see how that worked out. Wonder if he ever tried it? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 7:07:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Every once in a blue moon there can be a foreign particle in the steel that can cause a fatigue failure such as that.
There was a United DC-10 that crashed in Sioux City becasue of the same in one of the turbines despite it being tested to death in manufacturing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 7:09:40 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've always wondered how 4140 would make it as a bolt material. We used S7 in making bolts at Barrett and that material withstood the pressures of the .50 extremely well. In one of the bolt threads not long ago, BadazzAR from Spikes said he was going to try S7 and see how that worked out. Wonder if he ever tried it? The Shaprs Relia-Bolt is made from S7 and is available. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/21/2014 7:10:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every once in a blue moon there can be a foreign particle in the steel that can cause a fatigue failure such as that. There was a United DC-10 that crashed in Sioux City becasue of the same in one of the turbines despite it being tested to death in manufacturing. Except this isn't an isolated incident. Another guy had a Rainer 9310 bolt fail by losing two lugs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/22/2014 6:09:25 AM EDT
[#43]
Hi guys,
Let's not go ove board! The bolt went bad and all he needs is another replacement. The lugs are the most vunerable in the system and they can shear off over time. That's why I like to use either hard chrome or the nickle boron versions but then again I have read that on some BCG/bolts begin to flake off. My buddy just told me that his is begining to do the same and I was very shocked for a coating (nickle boron) that's suppose to be slicker/harder than hard chrome. None of my chromes have flaked off at any point so what does that tell you? Impala |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/22/2014 6:18:05 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Settle down Francis... My mistake was believing someone would even sell bullshit like that. So I didn't bother to read the fine print and that was on me and I didn't try to return it because of that. But BCM, Spikes, AIM-Surplus etc sure as hell wouldn't sell that gargabe... I apologize if I offended you by slamming your "precious", PSA... Um, wait, no I'm not... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why wouldn't you "buy anything from Aim on a bet?" Unless you know something I don't. I've been doing business withAIM-Surplus for years and they have always sold me legit/Mil-Spec AR15 products. It's not like they are PSA, selling 8620 bolt heads that you have to read the fine print/disclaimer scrupulously or your stuck with something that's inferior and use it as a paper weight. (Yes that happened to me during the panic and it's used as a paper weight.) Aim isn't the only one selling 9310 bolts for a competitive price right now. Have you had bad experiences with AIM or their product offerings CAC01??? Is it your reading skills or comprehension that made it difficult to understand they were 8620 bolts? Those were the only bolts available to anyone at the time. PSA in no way shape or form tried to trick anyone into buying those bolts. They clearly labeled them as 8620. I guess that's what they get for trying to keep shooters at the range instead of behind a computer screen. O.P. Bolts are going to break. Usually not that soon but freakish shit happens. Spare bolts are small and pack well. Settle down Francis... My mistake was believing someone would even sell bullshit like that. So I didn't bother to read the fine print and that was on me and I didn't try to return it because of that. But BCM, Spikes, AIM-Surplus etc sure as hell wouldn't sell that gargabe... I apologize if I offended you by slamming your "precious", PSA... Um, wait, no I'm not... There was no fine print, everything was advertised clearly. I can help you with the big letter words like " AND" and "THE". My assumption would be correct because garbage is spelled like ,well, garbage. Learn to spell when you learn to read. Typical PSA haters that never miss a chance to spread exaggerations and misconceptions. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/22/2014 6:49:59 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hi guys, Let's not go ove board! The bolt went bad and all he needs is another replacement. The lugs are the most vunerable in the system and they can shear off over time. That's why I like to use either hard chrome or the nickle boron versions but then again I have read that on some BCG/bolts begin to flake off. My buddy just told me that his is begining to do the same and I was very shocked for a coating (nickle boron) that's suppose to be slicker/harder than hard chrome. None of my chromes have flaked off at any point so what does that tell you? Impala Neither of those coatings would have prevented this as they are ony a surface coating that have no effect on the core hardness of the lugs. I agree with the above that this is a heat treat issue. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/22/2014 6:51:53 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uh...pretty much any steel if improperly heat treated can be left brittle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
9310 if not heat treated right can become brittle Uh...pretty much any steel if improperly heat treated can be left brittle. Yes, but some steels are more sensitive to heat treat procedures than others, thereby making them more "difficult" to heat treat. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/22/2014 6:53:47 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hi guys, Let's not go ove board! The bolt went bad and all he needs is another replacement. The lugs are the most vunerable in the system and they can shear off over time. That's why I like to use either hard chrome or the nickle boron versions but then again I have read that on some BCG/bolts begin to flake off. My buddy just told me that his is begining to do the same and I was very shocked for a coating (nickle boron) that's suppose to be slicker/harder than hard chrome. None of my chromes have flaked off at any point so what does that tell you? Impala That tells me that whoever did that NiB probably did not prepare the parts right. When NiB is applied correctly (and the parts are prepared correctly) it lives up to it's billing- this is why so many companies are offering it now. Proper preparation of parts is very important. My chrome stuff has not flaked, nor have any of my NiB parts. It's kinda like a cheap paint job if done incorrectly. Edit: The coating (or finish) probably had nothing to do with the OPs bolt breaking. There are reports of hydrogen embrittlement with chrome and possibly other coatings (and even in heat treating), but that probably does not apply here. Anyone who does heat treating should not hide behind the fact that 9310 can be trickier than some other metals to heat treat. That is no excuse. BUT, mistakes are made every day in all metal work and finishing and treating, (and life). Good article on hydrogen embrittlement |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/22/2014 8:10:00 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Shaprs Relia-Bolt is made from S7 and is available. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've always wondered how 4140 would make it as a bolt material. We used S7 in making bolts at Barrett and that material withstood the pressures of the .50 extremely well. In one of the bolt threads not long ago, BadazzAR from Spikes said he was going to try S7 and see how that worked out. Wonder if he ever tried it? The Shaprs Relia-Bolt is made from S7 and is available. Thanks for the info. Will have to pick one up to try out. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/22/2014 10:00:26 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was no fine print, everything was advertised clearly. I can help you with the big letter words like " AND" and "THE". My assumption would be correct because garbage is spelled like ,well, garbage. Learn to spell when you learn to read. Typical PSA haters that never miss a chance to spread exaggerations and misconceptions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why wouldn't you "buy anything from Aim on a bet?" Unless you know something I don't. I've been doing business withAIM-Surplus for years and they have always sold me legit/Mil-Spec AR15 products. It's not like they are PSA, selling 8620 bolt heads that you have to read the fine print/disclaimer scrupulously or your stuck with something that's inferior and use it as a paper weight. (Yes that happened to me during the panic and it's used as a paper weight.) Aim isn't the only one selling 9310 bolts for a competitive price right now. Have you had bad experiences with AIM or their product offerings CAC01??? Is it your reading skills or comprehension that made it difficult to understand they were 8620 bolts? Those were the only bolts available to anyone at the time. PSA in no way shape or form tried to trick anyone into buying those bolts. They clearly labeled them as 8620. I guess that's what they get for trying to keep shooters at the range instead of behind a computer screen. O.P. Bolts are going to break. Usually not that soon but freakish shit happens. Spare bolts are small and pack well. Settle down Francis... My mistake was believing someone would even sell bullshit like that. So I didn't bother to read the fine print and that was on me and I didn't try to return it because of that. But BCM, Spikes, AIM-Surplus etc sure as hell wouldn't sell that gargabe... I apologize if I offended you by slamming your "precious", PSA... Um, wait, no I'm not... There was no fine print, everything was advertised clearly. I can help you with the big letter words like " AND" and "THE". My assumption would be correct because garbage is spelled like ,well, garbage. Learn to spell when you learn to read. Typical PSA haters that never miss a chance to spread exaggerations and misconceptions. The implication in my original quoted post was that I shouldn't have to read fine print from sites that claim to sell legit shit. And how the fuck would you know what was there two years ago when I bough the piece of shit. But then again;I never was good at talking to idiots with extra chromosomes, so I can see why my retort would be over your head. My bad. But your Sally Struthers Correspondence School inspired degree curriculum from Devry has really paid off with your spelling skills. Maybe next they can teach you how to comprehend what you actually read and interpret what others write correctly. BTW, I have a PSA 14.7" CHF barrel. Most accurate barrel I own in the company of Colts and Spikes rifles. Nice assumption though on my PSA hating. Feel free to PM me and we'll take this up privately and not train wreck the OP's post... |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/22/2014 12:38:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Because I was there and bought the cheap 8620 bolts for spares just in case. Funny how I knew exactly what they were. But I can see how you would be confused. Don't be mad you got your dipstick caught in the chicken. Your implication that they did this unscrupulously was unfair and wrong. Now go make nice in the hen house. The bolts were 40 bucks btw.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
