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Posted: 7/19/2014 5:47:23 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a new Bushmaster that i just got a few days ago. Its one of the new ones made in NY. The barrel nut is tight, the gas key is properly staked, and there is nothing wrong with it. I have only put 300 rounds through it so far, and no failures of any kind. Truth is, any company that mass produces any product will have its share of lemons. Im sure even Colt has had their share of duds. Like anything else, you should try to inspect the rifle before you buy it, if at all possible. I know alot of keyboard commandos will keep bashing Bushmaster, no matter what. But like i said, you most likely wont have any problems out of your Bushy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I notice a lot of trash talking on Bushmasters and was wondering what the issues are? I've had mine (basic M4 style) for a few years and it is nicer than my DPMS as far as fit and finish, and as good or better than a M&P15 I've shot. So my question is, are there some serious issues I need to check or is it over hyped? I get that it's entry level but are there some manufacturing defects or something? QC issues? I have a new Bushmaster that i just got a few days ago. Its one of the new ones made in NY. The barrel nut is tight, the gas key is properly staked, and there is nothing wrong with it. I have only put 300 rounds through it so far, and no failures of any kind. Truth is, any company that mass produces any product will have its share of lemons. Im sure even Colt has had their share of duds. Like anything else, you should try to inspect the rifle before you buy it, if at all possible. I know alot of keyboard commandos will keep bashing Bushmaster, no matter what. But like i said, you most likely wont have any problems out of your Bushy. Glad to hear of you are enjoying your Bushy. I like you am one of the disillusioned. I have a flawless DPMS, but I have only had it for a year and a little over 1000 rds. I've found out that until you have parachuted into the desert, rolled in the mud in Africa and killed at least 6 zombies you don't know what you are talking about. Different opinions is what makes life interesting, I guess. Enjoy! |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 6:39:03 AM EDT
[#2]
Can't speak about the latest Bushie offerings, but I bought a rifle and a carbine back in the mid 90s (right after the ban was implemented). They are still 100% after countless rounds and I couldn't be happier with them. YMMV
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Posted: 7/19/2014 7:29:10 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can't speak about the latest Bushie offerings, but I bought a rifle and a carbine back in the mid 90s (right after the ban was implemented). They are still 100% after countless rounds and I couldn't be happier with them. YMMV Years ago there was'nt near as much to select from in AR's, Bushmaster, Colt,Armalite. I suspect BCM is at the top in off the shelve quality stuff nowadays. Theres good stuff out nowadays. I prefer building my own. I'm more towards hunting though. I do have an older BCM upper along with a even older LMT upper. both are quality 16" M4 style. they're sighted in and packed away. folks bitch about DPMS, Bushmaster,ect. |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 4:10:41 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They would never see her coming! By the time you know she's there you are already dead  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That dog....is AWESOME! Dogs like that can be kept in a pocket, or thrown through a window to clear a room. Back to topic: My brother has a 1997-98 era Bushy A2, and the bolt carrier is properly staked, and it runs fine. |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 4:26:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Bushmasters suck.
They're cheap and accurate and reliable. What pieces of crap! |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 6:12:14 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
I notice a lot of trash talking on Bushmasters and was wondering what the issues are? I've had mine (basic M4 style) for a few years and it is nicer than my DPMS as far as fit and finish, and as good or better than a M&P15 I've shot. So my question is, are there some serious issues I need to check or is it over hyped? I get that it's entry level but are there some manufacturing defects or something? QC issues? I had a Bushmaster a few years ago and it was fine. Sold it because I was getting into something else and needed the cash. I think that they are as good or better than the DPMS and M&P. The are good guns...if your works then don't worry about what others say. |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 6:13:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Old BM (pre-Freedom Group) is great stuff. I've used BM from 1997 through 2006. There is nothing wrong with the old BM rifles, barrels, parts.
Today, go with Windham Weaponry! Great people, Terrific products. |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 8:04:58 PM EDT
[#8]
It's purple!
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Posted: 7/20/2014 7:01:10 AM EDT
[#9]
Just a response to the mention of the " Chart". As a Stag Arms owner, among others, I noticed the chart was not completely accurate. They claimed that Stag did not have m4 feed ramps which is not true. There were a few other issues with the charts accuracy regarding Stag. The m4 feed ramp thing is just one that I remembered. I have a friend with a Bushmaster that loves it. Some brands are better or more desirable than others. I like Chevy some people prefer Fords. Does that make Chevy better?
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Posted: 7/20/2014 7:15:01 AM EDT
[#10]
In my experience of working the counter of an LGS, we've had more bushmasters come in needing repair or getting stuck casings out than any other AR rifle. Now, it is important to note that this doesn't always mean that all bushmasters are bad. It may mean there are SO MANY bushmasters out there, that the probability of one coming in with issues is higher than one from another maker.
That being said, I've owned three bushmaster rifles. All of them, I repeat... ALL of them gave me issues. Mainly stuck casings and not just steel cased ammo. Lots of failures to feed and mostly failures to extract. In almost all of these cases, I replaced the factory bushmaster barrel with a Spikes or Daniel Defense barrel and it no longer had issues. Due to the issues with the barrels, I am suspect of their bolt carrier groups as well and have replaced them or installed them in "beater" AR's. It seems the Bushmaster rifles I've owned either did not have chrome lined chambers or had improperly reamed chambers, among other things. Can they make a good product? Maybe. I just never got one. |
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Posted: 7/20/2014 7:26:05 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my experience of working the counter of an LGS, we've had more bushmasters come in needing repair or getting stuck casings out than any other AR rifle. Now, it is important to note that this doesn't always mean that all bushmasters are bad. It may mean there are SO MANY bushmasters out there, that the probability of one coming in with issues is higher than one from another maker. That being said, I've owned three bushmaster rifles. All of them, I repeat... ALL of them gave me issues. Mainly stuck casings and not just steel cased ammo. Lots of failures to feed and mostly failures to extract. In almost all of these cases, I replaced the factory bushmaster barrel with a Spikes or Daniel Defense barrel and it no longer had issues. Due to the issues with the barrels, I am suspect of their bolt carrier groups as well and have replaced them or installed them in "beater" AR's. It seems the Bushmaster rifles I've owned either did not have chrome lined chambers or had improperly reamed chambers, among other things. Can they make a good product? Maybe. I just never got one. |
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Posted: 7/20/2014 7:44:54 AM EDT
[#12]
Our agency bought 400 Bushmasters from 2007-2008. When we started training with them, we determined about 20% were having numerous failures to extract causing serious malfunctions. The weapons were completely unreliable. The final determination of the problem (with Bushmaster's concurrence) was out of spec chambers (too tight) causing the failure to extract when the weapons started to heat up as they were shot. We were using XM193 ammo. Bushmaster's answer to the problem was to HAND REAM the chambers to spec and call it good. When I asked our firearms training unit what Bushmaster was going to do about the chrome lining, I was told they weren't going to do anything. The following year all of the Bushmasters were sold and the agency put a bid out which Colt won with the 6920. Basically zero problems since. (The last sentence was included to piss off the Colt haters and make the fanboys happy. I think there would have been zero problems with a few other brands too.)
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Posted: 7/20/2014 7:45:07 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've had a couple Tula steel cases require removal with a cleaning rod so I quit using steel in it, but I had some steel left and tried in the DPMS yesterday and had a Hornady steel case get stuck. Had to go get the rod again. So I'm just thinking it's steel case in general. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In my experience of working the counter of an LGS, we've had more bushmasters come in needing repair or getting stuck casings out than any other AR rifle. Now, it is important to note that this doesn't always mean that all bushmasters are bad. It may mean there are SO MANY bushmasters out there, that the probability of one coming in with issues is higher than one from another maker. That being said, I've owned three bushmaster rifles. All of them, I repeat... ALL of them gave me issues. Mainly stuck casings and not just steel cased ammo. Lots of failures to feed and mostly failures to extract. In almost all of these cases, I replaced the factory bushmaster barrel with a Spikes or Daniel Defense barrel and it no longer had issues. Due to the issues with the barrels, I am suspect of their bolt carrier groups as well and have replaced them or installed them in "beater" AR's. It seems the Bushmaster rifles I've owned either did not have chrome lined chambers or had improperly reamed chambers, among other things. Can they make a good product? Maybe. I just never got one. I own over a dozen AR's. All of them will shoot steel cased ammo without any problems. A quality barrel and chamber will have no issues with steel cased ammo. The bushmaster barrels I've used would not shoot steel and would occasionally have a brass case get stuck. |
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Posted: 7/20/2014 8:36:43 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I own over a dozen AR's. All of them will shoot steel cased ammo without any problems. A quality barrel and chamber will have no issues with steel cased ammo. The bushmaster barrels I've used would not shoot steel and would occasionally have a brass case get stuck. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: In my experience of working the counter of an LGS, we've had more bushmasters come in needing repair or getting stuck casings out than any other AR rifle. Now, it is important to note that this doesn't always mean that all bushmasters are bad. It may mean there are SO MANY bushmasters out there, that the probability of one coming in with issues is higher than one from another maker. That being said, I've owned three bushmaster rifles. All of them, I repeat... ALL of them gave me issues. Mainly stuck casings and not just steel cased ammo. Lots of failures to feed and mostly failures to extract. In almost all of these cases, I replaced the factory bushmaster barrel with a Spikes or Daniel Defense barrel and it no longer had issues. Due to the issues with the barrels, I am suspect of their bolt carrier groups as well and have replaced them or installed them in "beater" AR's. It seems the Bushmaster rifles I've owned either did not have chrome lined chambers or had improperly reamed chambers, among other things. Can they make a good product? Maybe. I just never got one. I own over a dozen AR's. All of them will shoot steel cased ammo without any problems. A quality barrel and chamber will have no issues with steel cased ammo. The bushmaster barrels I've used would not shoot steel and would occasionally have a brass case get stuck. |
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Posted: 7/20/2014 9:19:15 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our agency bought 400 Bushmasters from 2007-2008. When we started training with them, we determined about 20% were having numerous failures to extract causing serious malfunctions. The weapons were completely unreliable. The final determination of the problem (with Bushmaster's concurrence) was out of spec chambers (too tight) causing the failure to extract when the weapons started to heat up as they were shot. We were using XM193 ammo. Bushmaster's answer to the problem was to HAND REAM the chambers to spec and call it good. When I asked our firearms training unit what Bushmaster was going to do about the chrome lining, I was told they weren't going to do anything. The following year all of the Bushmasters were sold and the agency put a bid out which Colt won with the 6920. Basically zero problems since. (The last sentence was included to piss off the Colt haters and make the fanboys happy. I think there would have been zero problems with a few other brands too.) It seems that Bushmaster has a LARGE chunk of the L.E. Market. I think it's do to the "low bid" process. The main issue I've encountered with Dept. Guns when I do the P.M. on them is loose carrier keys. I purchased an Inch Pound Torque Wrench, and a Brownells staking took. THAT solves that problem!
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Posted: 7/20/2014 9:48:47 PM EDT
[#16]
I haven't fired a newer production one, but I've heard from many people that their QC dropped substantially when they were bought by Freedom Group. My only range time with one was awhile back, and it was older than I am
Also, as a Mainer, I hate them for selling out and causing even more jobs to be lost during what was already a tough time for our state. Nowadays, the Windham rifles being made 20 minutes from where I live seem to be much better quality than any newer Bushy. |
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Posted: 7/20/2014 11:27:46 PM EDT
[#17]
I was just on the Bushmaster page, I've gone from a Del-Ton home build, to a BCM, then a Spike's, and an Aero Precision. I finally humored myself by looking at Bushmaster's uppers. Why are their uppers $450-$800?!?!? Their plain jane uppers run in the $600 range which is obscene IMO. What gives???
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Posted: 7/21/2014 12:35:47 AM EDT
[#18]
So far, I have had no problems out of my new Bushmaster. Today, it hit the 500 round mark, and no failures of any kind. I have been running Federal 55grain through it, running it wet, and cleaning after each 100 rounds to help break it in. I had an older Bushmaster that i bought in early 2005, and it was a Maine gun. Other than the finish on the newer one not being quite as nice, i cant tell much difference in them. Perhapse they have finally ironed out the QC issues they were having before?
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Posted: 7/21/2014 1:43:05 AM EDT
[#19]
If it is working for you, then there is no problem, right? My only experiences with them have not been positive....out of spec lower. I have seen a couple shit the bed at training courses, never bothered to find out what part(s) went belly up, though.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 5:42:23 AM EDT
[#20]
I owned two. Both were Windham built, pre-Freedom Group, pre-Remington
One was a 16'' h-bar bought it in 2003. It ran flawlessly for thousands of rounds and was quite accurate. I eventually parted it out. The lower lives on in a different rifle. The other was was an A4-style with a government profile barrel, circa 2005. Quite accurate. But it had serious short stroking issues. It wouldn't even extract weaker stuff like Wolf. The action would partially open, then close right back up with the empty case in the chamber. I shipped it to Bushmaster two times. They claimed they could not duplicate the issue, even though I never once had a range session that did not include at least one short stroke. I ran close to 3,000 rounds of LC XM193 through it during these sessions. Finally I decided to fix it myself. I removed the FSB to inspect the gas port. It was in spec, although it was on the very edge of the "circle" of the gas passage hole. I looked through the gas passage hole and found the issue. The hole in the gas tube and the gas passage hole in the FSB were misaligned by about half. I think the hole for the pin that retains the gas tube had been drilled off. I opened up the gas tube hole with a Dremel, reassembled, and the rifle now ran fine with M193. However, I still experienced shortstroking with lower pressure loads. This time I tackled the BCG. Ground the key, sealed with Permatex, staked. Still shortstroking. Then I checked the outside diameter of the gas tube at the receiver end. It was out of spec, considerably undersized. I bought a new gas tube, redrilled out the hole at the FSB to match the out of spec issue there, and then finally the rifle ran flawlessly. TL;DR One rifle. Two seriously out-of-spec parts resulting in shortstroking. QA caught neither. Two trips back resulted in nothing. Fixed it myself. No more Bushmasters for me. ETA: This one had the infamous canted FSB too, but that was the least of my concerns. The finish was perfect though. 
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Posted: 7/21/2014 5:56:45 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I owned two. Both were Windham built, pre-Freedom Group, pre-Remington One was a 16'' h-bar bought it in 2003. It ran flawlessly for thousands of rounds and was quite accurate. I eventually parted it out. The lower lives on in a different rifle. The other was was an A4-style with a government profile barrel, circa 2005. Quite accurate. But it had serious short stroking issues. It wouldn't even extract weaker stuff like Wolf. The action would partially open, then close right back up with the empty case in the chamber. I shipped it to Bushmaster two times. They claimed they could not duplicate the issue, even though I never once had a range session that did not include at least one short stroke. I ran close to 3,000 rounds of LC XM193 through it during these sessions. Finally I decided to fix it myself. I removed the FSB to inspect the gas port. It was in spec, although it was on the very edge of the "circle" of the gas passage hole. I looked through the gas passage hole and found the issue. The hole in the gas tube and the gas passage hole in the FSB were misaligned by about half. I think the hole for the pin that retains the gas tube had been drilled off. I opened up the gas tube hole with a Dremel, reassembled, and the rifle now ran fine with M193. However, I still experienced shortstroking with lower pressure loads. This time I tackled the BCG. Ground the key, sealed with Permatex, staked. Still shortstroking. Then I checked the outside diameter of the gas tube at the receiver end. It was out of spec, considerably undersized. I bought a new gas tube, redrilled out the hole at the FSB to match the out of spec issue there, and then finally the rifle ran flawlessly. TL;DR One rifle. Two seriously out-of-spec parts resulting in shortstroking. QA caught neither. Three trips back resulted in nothing. Fixed it myself. No more Bushmasters for me. ETA: This one had the infamous canted FSB too, but that was the least of my concerns. The finish was perfect though. Quote HistoryQuoted: I owned two. Both were Windham built, pre-Freedom Group, pre-Remington One was a 16'' h-bar bought it in 2003. It ran flawlessly for thousands of rounds and was quite accurate. I eventually parted it out. The lower lives on in a different rifle. The other was was an A4-style with a government profile barrel, circa 2005. Quite accurate. But it had serious short stroking issues. It wouldn't even extract weaker stuff like Wolf. The action would partially open, then close right back up with the empty case in the chamber. I shipped it to Bushmaster two times. They claimed they could not duplicate the issue, even though I never once had a range session that did not include at least one short stroke. I ran close to 3,000 rounds of LC XM193 through it during these sessions. Finally I decided to fix it myself. I removed the FSB to inspect the gas port. It was in spec, although it was on the very edge of the "circle" of the gas passage hole. I looked through the gas passage hole and found the issue. The hole in the gas tube and the gas passage hole in the FSB were misaligned by about half. I think the hole for the pin that retains the gas tube had been drilled off. I opened up the gas tube hole with a Dremel, reassembled, and the rifle now ran fine with M193. However, I still experienced shortstroking with lower pressure loads. This time I tackled the BCG. Ground the key, sealed with Permatex, staked. Still shortstroking. Then I checked the outside diameter of the gas tube at the receiver end. It was out of spec, considerably undersized. I bought a new gas tube, redrilled out the hole at the FSB to match the out of spec issue there, and then finally the rifle ran flawlessly. TL;DR One rifle. Two seriously out-of-spec parts resulting in shortstroking. QA caught neither. Three trips back resulted in nothing. Fixed it myself. No more Bushmasters for me. ETA: This one had the infamous canted FSB too, but that was the least of my concerns. The finish was perfect though. Sure sounds like I dodged some bullets with mine, it is set to be rebuilt with new barrel, bcg, gas block, etc. So it will be just receivers and buffer tube left original when I'm done probably. I checked this morning mine was made in Windham Maine as well. But I also just got a BCM KMR in trade and the top rail is 0.020" too narrow, had to put a washer under the screw head on my MBUS so it would tighten down, point being, they all make mistakes but sounds like bushmaster was not doing a good job checking for sure. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 7:37:45 AM EDT
[#22]
The only BM I'd stay clear of is the Carbon-15.
I have just seen to many pictures/accounts of them failing BM also only offers a 1 year warranty on their rifles... This fact alone should tell you how much faith they have in their product. How many other companies out there offer lifetime warranty on their rifle? |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 8:06:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only BM I'd stay clear of is the Carbon-15. I have just seen to many pictures/accounts of them failing BM also only offers a 1 year warranty on their rifles... This fact alone should tell you how much faith they have in their product. How many other companies out there offer lifetime warranty on their rifle? According to the chart Colt, S&W and BM offer 1 year warranties. I think DPMS does 3 and the rest are lifetime. I'm pretty sure BM still just does 1 year but not sure about Colt and S&W. That info may very well be outdated now. I'm sure there is a Colt guy here who can clarify. Agree on the Carbon 15. I love my old XM15 but I would steer clear of the Carbon. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 8:21:14 AM EDT
[#24]
I think some of you guys are missing the point here, what we all need to remember is that these things have a freakin coiled snake on the receiver, we need to consider what that is worth!
LOL
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Posted: 7/21/2014 8:24:50 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think some of you guys are missing the point here, what we all need to remember is that these things have a freakin coiled snake on the receiver, we need to consider what that is worth! LOLpersonally I prefer the look of the dragon on one of my other receivers........now that is really cool.  Though the coiled snake isn't too bad on my first AR.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 8:34:10 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: personally I prefer the look of the dragon on one of my other receivers........now that is really cool. Though the coiled snake isn't too bad on my first AR.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think some of you guys are missing the point here, what we all need to remember is that these things have a freakin coiled snake on the receiver, we need to consider what that is worth! LOLpersonally I prefer the look of the dragon on one of my other receivers........now that is really cool. Though the coiled snake isn't too bad on my first AR. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 8:36:22 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably both cooler than a pony! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think some of you guys are missing the point here, what we all need to remember is that these things have a freakin coiled snake on the receiver, we need to consider what that is worth! LOLpersonally I prefer the look of the dragon on one of my other receivers........now that is really cool. Though the coiled snake isn't too bad on my first AR. Bought both completed rifles for what one pony would have cost, so yeah....... |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 2:29:38 PM EDT
[#28]
"Bought both completed rifles for what one pony would have cost, so yeah......."
So...two AMC Gremlins beats one Honda Accord? Quantity over quality? |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 2:40:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Bought both completed rifles for what one pony would have cost, so yeah......." So...two AMC Gremlins beats one Honda Accord? Quantity over quality? Hey, Gremlins got the job done, mine got me from place to place back in the day. It was something I could afford on a student's budget. Model Ts got the job done, transporting people from one point to another. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 2:52:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey, Gremlins got the job done, mine got me from place to place back in the day. It was something I could afford on a student's budget. Model Ts got the job done, transporting people from one point to another. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"Bought both completed rifles for what one pony would have cost, so yeah......." So...two AMC Gremlins beats one Honda Accord? Quantity over quality? Hey, Gremlins got the job done, mine got me from place to place back in the day. It was something I could afford on a student's budget. Model Ts got the job done, transporting people from one point to another. Nice! I had one, too...a '77 canary yellow. I think you understood my point, too, that there is a difference between cost and quality. For most people, a Bushmaster (or any Brand 'X') will be fine. My experience with them is limited, and not great, but if people buy one (or any product) with eyes open, and if it gets them shooting, all power to 'em. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 3:32:31 PM EDT
[#31]
I recently purchased a Bushmaster Carbon 15 O.R.C. Ultralight started another thread because the issue I noticed was it was very picky as to the brand of magazine or shape of the follower. The Bushmaster mag that came with it works fine and a few other mags I have do also, however a 3 other different brands of mags do not leave the bolt open when the gun is empty nor can I lock the bolt open with them when I insert them while they are empty. The mags hold the bolt open on 2 other ARs I have tested them with fine, so I was wondering if this was a Bushmaster thing or maybe something that goes along with the Ultralight model. Other than that, I love my Bushy
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Posted: 7/21/2014 4:21:56 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice! I had one, too...a '77 canary yellow. I think you understood my point, too, that there is a difference between cost and quality. For most people, a Bushmaster (or any Brand 'X') will be fine. My experience with them is limited, and not great, but if people buy one (or any product) with eyes open, and if it gets them shooting, all power to 'em. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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"Bought both completed rifles for what one pony would have cost, so yeah......." So...two AMC Gremlins beats one Honda Accord? Quantity over quality? Hey, Gremlins got the job done, mine got me from place to place back in the day. It was something I could afford on a student's budget. Model Ts got the job done, transporting people from one point to another. Nice! I had one, too...a '77 canary yellow. I think you understood my point, too, that there is a difference between cost and quality. For most people, a Bushmaster (or any Brand 'X') will be fine. My experience with them is limited, and not great, but if people buy one (or any product) with eyes open, and if it gets them shooting, all power to 'em. Mine was a late 70's puke green, I think it was called lime green. Lots of space with the back seat folded down. great visibility in a Gremlin........Great car to transport my Brown Bess in.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 4:44:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never thought of bushmaster as being considered low quality until I started reading here, and I've only skimmed through "The Chart" for fun. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't something serious like bolt failures or something to watch for. If it's over nit pick, mil spec stuff I'm not concerned. I don't care what brand anything is, or who likes the brand, as long as it is good stuff. I'm not trusting my life to it and hopefully never have to. But it's never let me down yet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I still find it funny that Bushmaster used to be an acceptable brand until "the chart" came out. Suddenly, the same unstaked commercial receiver extensions and semi bolt carriers that 80% of the industry used for years with no problem was the line in the sand drawn dividing "serious" and "hobby grade" AR-15's. Hmmm... I thought the chart was nuked well before you became a member. Is it still posted somewhere? 
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Posted: 7/21/2014 4:52:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Supposedly Bushmaster, Windham, and Remington are all owned by some crap company Freedom Arms or something like that. Not sure if that is completely true but it makes sense. They all seem to cut corners really bad and put out sub standard stuff. I wont own anything other than a Colt or a BCM now. Maybe a Daniel Denfense if they are up to part with the last 2 mentioned.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 4:54:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to the chart Colt, S&W and BM offer 1 year warranties. I think DPMS does 3 and the rest are lifetime. I'm pretty sure BM still just does 1 year but not sure about Colt and S&W. That info may very well be outdated now. I'm sure there is a Colt guy here who can clarify. Agree on the Carbon 15. I love my old XM15 but I would steer clear of the Carbon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The only BM I'd stay clear of is the Carbon-15. I have just seen to many pictures/accounts of them failing BM also only offers a 1 year warranty on their rifles... This fact alone should tell you how much faith they have in their product. How many other companies out there offer lifetime warranty on their rifle? According to the chart Colt, S&W and BM offer 1 year warranties. I think DPMS does 3 and the rest are lifetime. I'm pretty sure BM still just does 1 year but not sure about Colt and S&W. That info may very well be outdated now. I'm sure there is a Colt guy here who can clarify. Agree on the Carbon 15. I love my old XM15 but I would steer clear of the Carbon. Colt and S&W offer lifetime warrantys. We have BM 16" carbines at work that were purchased in 2002. They all use substandard parts. However when we do train with them I assure that mine is lubed well and it has never failed... In the 60 rounds we fire through them in a controlled indoor range so that's not saying much. I owned a Windham MPC and the parts on it we're MUCH better. It was a solid rifle. Maybe BM has changed since then, but from the samples I have handled... I wouldn't come near one if I was wanting to purchase for myself. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 4:57:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Supposedly Bushmaster, Windham, and Remington are all owned by some crap company Freedom Arms or something like that. Not sure if that is completely true but it makes sense. They all seem to cut corners really bad and put out sub standard stuff. I wont own anything other than a Colt or a BCM now. Maybe a Daniel Denfense if they are up to part with the last 2 mentioned. Windham is separate from BM now and I'd take a WW over a BM in a second. Although the WW has few bad habits they didn't recover from. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 5:12:04 PM EDT
[#37]
My ford is better than your chevy, That BMW might be better than my ford but my ford gets me to the same place for less money. "though maybe not as comfortably"
tens of thousands of Bushmasters have come off the line any work fine for people every day. No its not a LMT or BCM but ive had mine for 8+ years nearing 10k rounds of brass, steel, reloads, and PMC garbage or whatever was around, no failures. Yes its a semi bolt, but its a semi gun, id be willing to bet 99.9% of us have a non milspec part "cough MAGPUL IS NOT MILSPEC cough" commercial buffer tube LOL who cares? change it out for $30 when it breaks, IF IT BREAKS. Reminton 700 misfire and have even killed people but yet many still think it is the best bolt action out there. With the amount of people buying ptac there really should not be any grief given over bushies, but to each their own. Bolts break, ejectors wear out. Are there better guns out there? Yes of course, does that mean yours is garbage? of course not. Have fun shoot it, When the time comes you want a slick high end gun you will buy one. Until then enjoy what you have. Haters will hate so just hate them back and snicker a little bit when they show up at the range with their 3k cock extension |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 5:23:26 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My ford is better than your chevy, That BMW might be better than my ford but my ford gets me to the same place for less money. "though maybe not as comfortably" tens of thousands of Bushmasters have come off the line any work fine for people every day. No its not a LMT or BCM but ive had mine for 8+ years nearing 10k rounds of brass, steel, reloads, and PMC garbage or whatever was around, no failures. Yes its a semi bolt, but its a semi gun, id be willing to bet 99.9% of us have a non milspec part "cough MAGPUL IS NOT MILSPEC cough" commercial buffer tube LOL who cares? change it out for $30 when it breaks, IF IT BREAKS. Reminton 700 misfire and have even killed people but yet many still think it is the best bolt action out there. With the amount of people buying ptac there really should not be any grief given over bushies, but to each their own. Bolts break, ejectors wear out. Are there better guns out there? Yes of course, does that mean yours is garbage? of course not. Have fun shoot it, When the time comes you want a slick high end gun you will buy one. Until then enjoy what you have. Haters will hate so just hate them back and snicker a little bit when they show up at the range with their 3k cock extension Ya if you bought your bushmaster 8+ years ago, it is not the same rifle that is sold today. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 5:25:26 PM EDT
[#39]
For the price of an off the shelf rifle lets say average is around 1000 bucks. A bcm 16 inch carbine or midi can be had for around the same price if you build your own lower and you have a much better rifle that will take abuse and hard use.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 6:13:53 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ya if you bought your bushmaster 8+ years ago, it is not the same rifle that is sold today. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My ford is better than your chevy, That BMW might be better than my ford but my ford gets me to the same place for less money. "though maybe not as comfortably" tens of thousands of Bushmasters have come off the line any work fine for people every day. No its not a LMT or BCM but ive had mine for 8+ years nearing 10k rounds of brass, steel, reloads, and PMC garbage or whatever was around, no failures. Yes its a semi bolt, but its a semi gun, id be willing to bet 99.9% of us have a non milspec part "cough MAGPUL IS NOT MILSPEC cough" commercial buffer tube LOL who cares? change it out for $30 when it breaks, IF IT BREAKS. Reminton 700 misfire and have even killed people but yet many still think it is the best bolt action out there. With the amount of people buying ptac there really should not be any grief given over bushies, but to each their own. Bolts break, ejectors wear out. Are there better guns out there? Yes of course, does that mean yours is garbage? of course not. Have fun shoot it, When the time comes you want a slick high end gun you will buy one. Until then enjoy what you have. Haters will hate so just hate them back and snicker a little bit when they show up at the range with their 3k cock extension Ya if you bought your bushmaster 8+ years ago, it is not the same rifle that is sold today. Bought mine a decade ago. I guess mine is OK then. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 6:50:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Ya that was back when Bushmaster was actually Bushmaster. Refer to one of my previous posts and I hear they are now owned by like freedom arms or something like that.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 6:52:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Im sorry its Freedom Group and they are..
Freedom Group We are the world's leading innovator, designer, manufacturer and marketer of firearms, ammunition and related products for the hunting, shooting sports, law enforcement and military markets. As one of the largest manufacturers in the world of firearms and ammunition, we have some of the most globally recognized brands including Remington®, Bushmaster® Firearms, DPMS/Panther Arms™, Marlin®, H&R®, The Parker Gun™, Mountain Khakis®, Advanced Armament Corp. ®, Dakota Arms®, Para™ USA and Barnes® Bullets. These guys cut corners like crazy and the Q.C. is horrible. |
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Posted: 7/21/2014 9:52:02 PM EDT
[#43]
The first AR I bought was in October 2004 just after the sunset. It was a LE only marked 16" with all the evil features. It's never had a hiccup in 10 years. That being said my dept. just got in a batch of them for patrol rifles. We've used Armalite and S&W in the past as we go with a state bid. Ordered around 20 and over half had tight chambers that caused the guns to FTE on 5.56.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:23:49 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ONLY U.S. Military contract was for no more than 75 weapons and that was YEARS ago. Peter Kokalis RAVED about it in S.O.F. Magazine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Bushy picked up some large gov't contracts just as the stories spread of them treating individuals like crap. The ONLY U.S. Military contract was for no more than 75 weapons and that was YEARS ago. Peter Kokalis RAVED about it in S.O.F. Magazine. Tell me more about this Bushmaster/Government contract. It sounds interesting. The government really bought some Bushmasters? What did they do with them? Try to field them like a regular Colt or just do some R&D? Quoted:
Im sorry its Freedom Group and they are.. Freedom Group We are the world's leading innovator, designer, manufacturer and marketer of firearms, ammunition and related products for the hunting, shooting sports, law enforcement and military markets. As one of the largest manufacturers in the world of firearms and ammunition, we have some of the most globally recognized brands including Remington®, Bushmaster® Firearms, DPMS/Panther Arms™, Marlin®, H&R®, The Parker Gun™, Mountain Khakis®, Advanced Armament Corp. ®, Dakota Arms®, Para™ USA and Barnes® Bullets. These guys cut corners like crazy and the Q.C. is horrible. I don't know if they cut corners, but if they do, it seems disturbing that they own AAC. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:32:55 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My ford is better than your chevy, That BMW might be better than my ford but my ford gets me to the same place for less money. "though maybe not as comfortably" tens of thousands of Bushmasters have come off the line any work fine for people every day. No its not a LMT or BCM but ive had mine for 8+ years nearing 10k rounds of brass, steel, reloads, and PMC garbage or whatever was around, no failures. Yes its a semi bolt, but its a semi gun, id be willing to bet 99.9% of us have a non milspec part "cough MAGPUL IS NOT MILSPEC cough" commercial buffer tube LOL who cares? change it out for $30 when it breaks, IF IT BREAKS. Reminton 700 misfire and have even killed people but yet many still think it is the best bolt action out there. With the amount of people buying ptac there really should not be any grief given over bushies, but to each their own. Bolts break, ejectors wear out. Are there better guns out there? Yes of course, does that mean yours is garbage? of course not. Have fun shoot it, When the time comes you want a slick high end gun you will buy one. Until then enjoy what you have. Haters will hate so just hate them back and snicker a little bit when they show up at the range with their 3k cock extension |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:35:16 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my experience of working the counter of an LGS, we've had more bushmasters come in needing repair or getting stuck casings out than any other AR rifle. Now, it is important to note that this doesn't always mean that all bushmasters are bad. It may mean there are SO MANY bushmasters out there, that the probability of one coming in with issues is higher than one from another maker. That being said, I've owned three bushmaster rifles. All of them, I repeat... ALL of them gave me issues. Mainly stuck casings and not just steel cased ammo. Lots of failures to feed and mostly failures to extract. In almost all of these cases, I replaced the factory bushmaster barrel with a Spikes or Daniel Defense barrel and it no longer had issues. Due to the issues with the barrels, I am suspect of their bolt carrier groups as well and have replaced them or installed them in "beater" AR's. It seems the Bushmaster rifles I've owned either did not have chrome lined chambers or had improperly reamed chambers, among other things. Can they make a good product? Maybe. I just never got one. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:37:18 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't fired a newer production one, but I've heard from many people that their QC dropped substantially when they were bought by Freedom Group. My only range time with one was awhile back, and it was older than I am Also, as a Mainer, I hate them for selling out and causing even more jobs to be lost during what was already a tough time for our state. Nowadays, the Windham rifles being made 20 minutes from where I live seem to be much better quality than any newer Bushy. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:37:52 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only BM I'd stay clear of is the Carbon-15. I have just seen to many pictures/accounts of them failing BM also only offers a 1 year warranty on their rifles... This fact alone should tell you how much faith they have in their product. How many other companies out there offer lifetime warranty on their rifle? |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:27:08 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They've had a history of piss poor QC. No matter what they do now or in the futre, there will always be that shit stain on the company's reputation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I notice a lot of trash talking on Bushmasters and was wondering what the issues are? I've had mine for a few years and it is nicer than my DPMS as far as fit and finish, and as good or better than a M&P15 I've shot. So my question is, are there some serious issues I need to check or is it over hyped? I get that it's entry level but are there some manufacturing defects or something? QC issues? They've had a history of piss poor QC. No matter what they do now or in the futre, there will always be that shit stain on the company's reputation. That's why you buy windham. Excellent QC and customer service. Windham will replace a rifle without second thought if you are un satisfied with it |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 3:17:39 PM EDT
[#50]
I bought my Bushy in 1995 right after a redneck from Arkansas decided I was too stupid, and needed protection from myself. This was just after Al Gore invented the Internet, but since he forgot to invent Forums, I didn't know any better, and there was no such thing as The Chart.
There were two choices in AR's at that time, Bushmaster and Colt. Since BM was cheaper, they outsold Colt by a wide margin, and I bought mine based on price. Years later, and 3-4,000 rounds out the neutered end, ( remember, no evil Assault Weapon features allowed ), it still runs with no hitches. BM has had some quality issues at various times. but mine has been flawless with no failures to feed, fire or eject, from the chrome lined barrel. No loose, improperly staked, or broken parts either. |
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