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Link Posted: 6/27/2014 11:22:05 AM EDT
[#1]
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Still waiting...
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USPH2,

We have yet to receive your bolt. Can you track the package?


Still waiting...


Hey DPMS, you guys ever get the faulty BCG?

You know it's not cool to drag a company's name through the mud without cause. I've been asking for a pic since this thread was first posted. The first excuse was not knowing how to post a pic and then it was that the BCG was returned for replacement (But never actually received?). I'm wondering if this ever happened at all or was just newbie BS talk.
Link Posted: 6/30/2014 9:54:39 AM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 6/30/2014 10:52:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Tag for OPs crack.




Link Posted: 6/30/2014 12:17:06 PM EDT
[#4]
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Nope never received anything back including a request for the serial number.

It appears USPH2 never really had a DPMS we guess...
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USPH2,

We have yet to receive your bolt. Can you track the package?


Still waiting...


Hey DPMS, you guys ever get the faulty BCG?

You know it's not cool to drag a company's name through the mud without cause. I've been asking for a pic since this thread was first posted. The first excuse was not knowing how to post a pic and then it was that the BCG was returned for replacement (But never actually received?). I'm wondering if this ever happened at all or was just newbie BS talk.



Nope never received anything back including a request for the serial number.

It appears USPH2 never really had a DPMS we guess...


Or never really had a crack!
Link Posted: 6/30/2014 4:47:01 PM EDT
[#5]
IN for maybe bolt pic or explanation.
Link Posted: 7/1/2014 7:21:46 AM EDT
[#6]
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AIM -- best deal in town.  Quality, value, and customer service
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If it's working fine, why replace it?

But if you want one... AIM NiB for ~$100.


AIM -- best deal in town.  Quality, value, and customer service

Absolutely....buying anything else here is stupid and doing so on name only
Link Posted: 7/1/2014 4:21:42 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:



Nope never received anything back including a request for the serial number.

It appears USPH2 never really had a DPMS we guess...
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USPH2,

We have yet to receive your bolt. Can you track the package?


Still waiting...


Hey DPMS, you guys ever get the faulty BCG?

You know it's not cool to drag a company's name through the mud without cause. I've been asking for a pic since this thread was first posted. The first excuse was not knowing how to post a pic and then it was that the BCG was returned for replacement (But never actually received?). I'm wondering if this ever happened at all or was just newbie BS talk.



Nope never received anything back including a request for the serial number.

It appears USPH2 never really had a DPMS we guess...


Interesting.  I was hoping to see the bolt...
Link Posted: 7/1/2014 5:02:38 PM EDT
[#8]
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I would but I have already mailed it back to DPMS.  They will upload the pics when they get it.  Thanks...  So you saw my pic of my recent build what do you think and be honest I am always trying to improve and will be building a .308 AR next...
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You get a chance to upload the pic yet? I saw your other post with the pics of the PSA rifle so you must understand how to do it now.

Please upload it, we would love to see the crack.


I would but I have already mailed it back to DPMS.  They will upload the pics when they get it.  Thanks...  So you saw my pic of my recent build what do you think and be honest I am always trying to improve and will be building a .308 AR next...


Updates?  See that you had logged in today
Link Posted: 7/1/2014 6:02:44 PM EDT
[#9]
waiting
Link Posted: 7/1/2014 8:30:53 PM EDT
[#10]
My guess is being a 14er he was unaware dpms posted on this site.   Seen people bash dpms and wanted to make a "cool thread"

Backfire.

I'm sure he already has a new username.
Link Posted: 7/1/2014 10:46:42 PM EDT
[#11]
I have a 7" pistol upper that is all DPMS parts. Aside from putting together some God awfully ugly configurations,  they make good stuff at reasonable prices.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 8:40:18 AM EDT
[#12]
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My guess is being a 14er he was unaware dpms posted on this site.   Seen people bash dpms and wanted to make a "cool thread"

Backfire.

I'm sure he already has a new username.
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Nope, he was on less than an hour ago posting about his next build, a middy. He needs to come in here and explain to DPMS why he never returned the "Cracked" BCG.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 9:19:33 AM EDT
[#13]
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Nope, he was on less than an hour ago posting about his next build, a middy. He needs to come in here and explain to DPMS why he never returned the "Cracked" BCG.
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My guess is being a 14er he was unaware dpms posted on this site.   Seen people bash dpms and wanted to make a "cool thread"

Backfire.

I'm sure he already has a new username.


Nope, he was on less than an hour ago posting about his next build, a middy. He needs to come in here and explain to DPMS why he never returned the "Cracked" BCG.



No I have not returned it as of yet... I bought a replacement and I just have not had the time to return it.  It is my truck boxed and ready to go.  Every time I get to town which is about 30 miles away from where I live I forget to go by the post office.  That is it.  Also I do not know where some of you got the idea that I was bad mouthing DPMS when I was not and nothing in my original post even suggests I was.  In fact I am quite happy with my DPMS AR and I have 2 uppers by them.  So stop putting words in my mouth.  As far as sending the bolt back I will eventually do that, but I am in no hurry as I have since purchased a replacement bolt.  

I do not even know what a "14er" is, but if DPMS is reading this I will get it back to you eventually,  but I am really in no hurry and I do not hold DPMS responsible for the bolt.  The rifle had many thousands of rounds through it and like any moving part it is going to need to be replaced eventually.  I also understand you want to see it for your own reference as well.  I am not expecting nor do I think you should replace it at no cost.  It is what it is that's all.  
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 12:29:49 PM EDT
[#14]
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Ok I mailed it Yesterday via USPS Priority Mail you should have by Tuesday or Wednesday.  I could not find my original receipt though.  I bought it about 2 years ago from a gun show dealer. It was new in the box when I bought it.  I did include the serial number with bolt.  Thanks again.
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I had a roll pin fall out of a dpms bolt. It was the pin that holds the ejector in. I called dpms and they wanted me to send the whole upper. I just bought a new bolt and sold the gun. I hate sending stuff back if it breaks it gets sold and doesn't get another chance. I told dpms that I'm sure of the problem. The hole for the roll pin was too big. I said all I needed was a new bolt. They wouldnt send me one without sending the whole upper in. It was like they didn't trust me. I emailed pics of the problem and even posted it in their industry forum then they deleted it and blocked me from their industry forum. Yah real professionals



We offered to repair your rifle 100% free of charge, you declined the offer.

We headspace each bolt to the barrel verifying it will be safe and correct if a bolt needs to be replaced it is done at the factory, headspaced and test fired.


Ok I mailed it Yesterday via USPS Priority Mail you should have by Tuesday or Wednesday.  I could not find my original receipt though.  I bought it about 2 years ago from a gun show dealer. It was new in the box when I bought it.  I did include the serial number with bolt.  Thanks again.


you said you already mailed it.....
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:46:36 PM EDT
[#15]
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you said you already mailed it.....
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I had a roll pin fall out of a dpms bolt. It was the pin that holds the ejector in. I called dpms and they wanted me to send the whole upper. I just bought a new bolt and sold the gun. I hate sending stuff back if it breaks it gets sold and doesn't get another chance. I told dpms that I'm sure of the problem. The hole for the roll pin was too big. I said all I needed was a new bolt. They wouldnt send me one without sending the whole upper in. It was like they didn't trust me. I emailed pics of the problem and even posted it in their industry forum then they deleted it and blocked me from their industry forum. Yah real professionals



We offered to repair your rifle 100% free of charge, you declined the offer.

We headspace each bolt to the barrel verifying it will be safe and correct if a bolt needs to be replaced it is done at the factory, headspaced and test fired.


Ok I mailed it Yesterday via USPS Priority Mail you should have by Tuesday or Wednesday.  I could not find my original receipt though.  I bought it about 2 years ago from a gun show dealer. It was new in the box when I bought it.  I did include the serial number with bolt.  Thanks again.


you said you already mailed it.....


Yea, that was excuse number 2 for not being able to post a pic of the "Crack". The first excuse was not knowing the pic posting procedure, he figured that out to post a pic of a rifle, but still no crack pic.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 2:02:31 PM EDT
[#16]
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you said you already mailed it.....
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I had a roll pin fall out of a dpms bolt. It was the pin that holds the ejector in. I called dpms and they wanted me to send the whole upper. I just bought a new bolt and sold the gun. I hate sending stuff back if it breaks it gets sold and doesn't get another chance. I told dpms that I'm sure of the problem. The hole for the roll pin was too big. I said all I needed was a new bolt. They wouldnt send me one without sending the whole upper in. It was like they didn't trust me. I emailed pics of the problem and even posted it in their industry forum then they deleted it and blocked me from their industry forum. Yah real professionals



We offered to repair your rifle 100% free of charge, you declined the offer.

We headspace each bolt to the barrel verifying it will be safe and correct if a bolt needs to be replaced it is done at the factory, headspaced and test fired.


Ok I mailed it Yesterday via USPS Priority Mail you should have by Tuesday or Wednesday.  I could not find my original receipt though.  I bought it about 2 years ago from a gun show dealer. It was new in the box when I bought it.  I did include the serial number with bolt.  Thanks again.


you said you already mailed it.....


Yes I mis-spoke I should of said that I had it boxed and ready to ship, when I said that I was heading to town later that day to mail it.  But I forgot because I got tied up with the wife and shopping and all...

Some of you on here can be real, well let's just say not very pleasant...  First you accuse me of bad mouthing DPMS, which if you actually go back and read my original post you can clearly see that was not the case.  As for for returning the bolt,  I will get it mailed back, it is just not on my priority list right now.  These are not excuses it is just the way it is....
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 2:05:21 PM EDT
[#17]
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We offered to repair your rifle 100% free of charge, you declined the offer.

We headspace each bolt to the barrel verifying it will be safe and correct if a bolt needs to be replaced it is done at the factory, headspaced and test fired.
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I had a roll pin fall out of a dpms bolt. It was the pin that holds the ejector in. I called dpms and they wanted me to send the whole upper. I just bought a new bolt and sold the gun. I hate sending stuff back if it breaks it gets sold and doesn't get another chance. I told dpms that I'm sure of the problem. The hole for the roll pin was too big. I said all I needed was a new bolt. They wouldnt send me one without sending the whole upper in. It was like they didn't trust me. I emailed pics of the problem and even posted it in their industry forum then they deleted it and blocked me from their industry forum. Yah real professionals



We offered to repair your rifle 100% free of charge, you declined the offer.

We headspace each bolt to the barrel verifying it will be safe and correct if a bolt needs to be replaced it is done at the factory, headspaced and test fired.



Maybe I am wrong but the bolt does not need to be head spaced does it.  The new bolt I bought dropped right in and is working perfectly...
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 6:57:46 PM EDT
[#18]
In for pic
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 7:45:36 PM EDT
[#19]
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Maybe I am wrong but the bolt does not need to be head spaced does it.  The new bolt I bought dropped right in and is working perfectly...
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I had a roll pin fall out of a dpms bolt. It was the pin that holds the ejector in. I called dpms and they wanted me to send the whole upper. I just bought a new bolt and sold the gun. I hate sending stuff back if it breaks it gets sold and doesn't get another chance. I told dpms that I'm sure of the problem. The hole for the roll pin was too big. I said all I needed was a new bolt. They wouldnt send me one without sending the whole upper in. It was like they didn't trust me. I emailed pics of the problem and even posted it in their industry forum then they deleted it and blocked me from their industry forum. Yah real professionals



We offered to repair your rifle 100% free of charge, you declined the offer.

We headspace each bolt to the barrel verifying it will be safe and correct if a bolt needs to be replaced it is done at the factory, headspaced and test fired.



Maybe I am wrong but the bolt does not need to be head spaced does it.  The new bolt I bought dropped right in and is working perfectly...


Yes, you are wrong.  Anytime a bolt is replaced proper procedure dictates that you check headspace.  Now, that being said 95% of people including myself don't because it's almost always not an issue.  But DPMS is a manufacturer and must follow strict guidelines as a matter of reputation, professionalism, and most importantly, safety.

That's why in order to fix it properly at the factory they would need your upper.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 8:02:40 PM EDT
[#20]
If it were me I would send the entire upper along with weapon serial number to DPMS that is ....... IF IF IF ..... there really was a crack.

Why?

First of all ... because if there is truly a crack it might be a defect in a certain production run and DPMS might be able to identify other possibly affected firearms.

Secondly ... I'd hate to read on here a month or so from now of a member being injured because of the same problem knowing that I withheld the information from the manufacturer.

My guess is that there is no crack, that the OP got caught up on the " Unnecessary Upgrade " train and when called out on the reason for needing a new BCG, had to justify the change.

I bought a brand new AR from a different manufacturer and I am leaving the internals bone stock until something actually needs to be changed.

My friends ( the ones stuck on that "Unecessary Upgrade" train are trying to goad me into buying all kinds of unnecessary tacticool crap but I just laugh at them.

One of them has almost $2500 invested in his AR and I am outshooting him with my bone stock $900 AR.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 8:05:33 PM EDT
[#21]
duplicate ..... sorry
Link Posted: 7/3/2014 8:51:50 AM EDT
[#22]
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Yes I mis-spoke I should of said that I had it boxed and ready to ship, when I said that I was heading to town later that day to mail it.  But I forgot because I got tied up with the wife and shopping and all...

Some of you on here can be real, well let's just say not very pleasant...  First you accuse me of bad mouthing DPMS, which if you actually go back and read my original post you can clearly see that was not the case.  As for for returning the bolt,  I will get it mailed back, it is just not on my priority list right now.  These are not excuses it is just the way it is....
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I had a roll pin fall out of a dpms bolt. It was the pin that holds the ejector in. I called dpms and they wanted me to send the whole upper. I just bought a new bolt and sold the gun. I hate sending stuff back if it breaks it gets sold and doesn't get another chance. I told dpms that I'm sure of the problem. The hole for the roll pin was too big. I said all I needed was a new bolt. They wouldnt send me one without sending the whole upper in. It was like they didn't trust me. I emailed pics of the problem and even posted it in their industry forum then they deleted it and blocked me from their industry forum. Yah real professionals



We offered to repair your rifle 100% free of charge, you declined the offer.

We headspace each bolt to the barrel verifying it will be safe and correct if a bolt needs to be replaced it is done at the factory, headspaced and test fired.


Ok I mailed it Yesterday via USPS Priority Mail you should have by Tuesday or Wednesday.  I could not find my original receipt though.  I bought it about 2 years ago from a gun show dealer. It was new in the box when I bought it.  I did include the serial number with bolt.  Thanks again.


you said you already mailed it.....


Yes I mis-spoke I should of said that I had it boxed and ready to ship, when I said that I was heading to town later that day to mail it.  But I forgot because I got tied up with the wife and shopping and all...

Some of you on here can be real, well let's just say not very pleasant...  First you accuse me of bad mouthing DPMS, which if you actually go back and read my original post you can clearly see that was not the case.  As for for returning the bolt,  I will get it mailed back, it is just not on my priority list right now.  These are not excuses it is just the way it is....



Well then this is actually good news. Since you still have the BCG in question it will be simple for you to take and post a pic for us. You clearly know how to post them now. Won't cost anything except for a little tape to close the box again.
Link Posted: 7/3/2014 9:55:45 AM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
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Ok I mailed it Yesterday via USPS Priority Mail you should have by Tuesday or Wednesday.  I could not find my original receipt though.  I bought it about 2 years ago from a gun show dealer. It was new in the box when I bought it.  I did include the serial number with bolt.  Thanks again.
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you said you already mailed it.....
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Yes I mis-spoke I should of said that I had it boxed and ready to ship, when I said that I was heading to town later that day to mail it.  But I forgot because I got tied up with the wife and shopping and all...

Some of you on here can be real, well let's just say not very pleasant...  First you accuse me of bad mouthing DPMS, which if you actually go back and read my original post you can clearly see that was not the case.  As for for returning the bolt,  I will get it mailed back, it is just not on my priority list right now.  These are not excuses it is just the way it is....
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Seriously?  You post comments in a public forum about a defective part, refuse to post pics when requested by the people you're asking for advice, as well as the manufacturer, lie about mailing it back while the manufacturer is waiting, and we're the unpleasant ones?  I think you've been caught in a few lies and you're upset about it.

You need to understand that you're posting in a highly trafficked forum where people exchange advice and experience.  I, as well as many others, own a DPMS, so this thread could have had relevant information.  Instead, you wasted a lot of people's time with your dishonest post and thread when others took time to help you.

If you simply wanted a new BCG for the hell of it, when asked you should have stated that, not lied about a defective part.

Good luck, OP.  You're gonna need it.
Link Posted: 7/3/2014 11:11:54 AM EDT
[#24]
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Seriously?  You post comments in a public forum about a defective part, refuse to post pics when requested by the people you're asking for advice, as well as the manufacturer, lie about mailing it back while the manufacturer is waiting, and we're the unpleasant ones?  I think you've been caught in a few lies and you're upset about it.

You need to understand that you're posting in a highly trafficked forum where people exchange advice and experience.  I, as well as many others, own a DPMS, so this thread could have had relevant information.  Instead, you wasted a lot of people's time with your dishonest post and thread when others took time to help you.

If you simply wanted a new BCG for the hell of it, when asked you should have stated that, not lied about a defective part.

Good luck, OP.  You're gonna need it.
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Ok I mailed it Yesterday via USPS Priority Mail you should have by Tuesday or Wednesday.  I could not find my original receipt though.  I bought it about 2 years ago from a gun show dealer. It was new in the box when I bought it.  I did include the serial number with bolt.  Thanks again.


you said you already mailed it.....


Yes I mis-spoke I should of said that I had it boxed and ready to ship, when I said that I was heading to town later that day to mail it.  But I forgot because I got tied up with the wife and shopping and all...

Some of you on here can be real, well let's just say not very pleasant...  First you accuse me of bad mouthing DPMS, which if you actually go back and read my original post you can clearly see that was not the case.  As for for returning the bolt,  I will get it mailed back, it is just not on my priority list right now.  These are not excuses it is just the way it is....


Seriously?  You post comments in a public forum about a defective part, refuse to post pics when requested by the people you're asking for advice, as well as the manufacturer, lie about mailing it back while the manufacturer is waiting, and we're the unpleasant ones?  I think you've been caught in a few lies and you're upset about it.

You need to understand that you're posting in a highly trafficked forum where people exchange advice and experience.  I, as well as many others, own a DPMS, so this thread could have had relevant information.  Instead, you wasted a lot of people's time with your dishonest post and thread when others took time to help you.

If you simply wanted a new BCG for the hell of it, when asked you should have stated that, not lied about a defective part.

Good luck, OP.  You're gonna need it.


So now you are calling me a liar, You are a real piece of work...  You still think I was bad mouthing DPMS, so you must not be able to read or you are just interpreting your own facts and not the actual facts, like a said a real piece of work you are...  This is not even worth my time to sit hear and debate with you over something a ridiculous as this.  
Link Posted: 7/3/2014 11:38:57 AM EDT
[#25]
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I bought a brand new AR from a different manufacturer and I am leaving the internals bone stock until something actually needs to be changed.

My friends ( the ones stuck on that "Unecessary Upgrade" train are trying to goad me into buying all kinds of unnecessary tacticool crap but I just laugh at them.

.
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Happens in the Motorcycle world too.... I have two friends, one of which has literally (yes LITERALLY) ridden his BMW R1150GS around the world.

The other just bought a GS Adventure and the first guy immediately tells the second guy, "You need to ditch those stock shocks for some Ohlins!"  

Ohlins are high dollar aftermarket fully adjustable shocks that cost plenty.

I looked at friend number 1 (as this was said right in front of me) and said..... "Why don't you let him ride the bike for a while and decide that the stock shocks don't work for him?"

A shock change out would be a decent percentage of what the guy paid for is bike.  It amazes me what constitutes "conventional wisdom" some times.

TG
Link Posted: 7/3/2014 12:13:45 PM EDT
[#26]
OP:   Did you now actually place it in the mail or UPS or FedEx or something?

I think most of us following this thread just want OP and DPMS to do the right thing by each other to verify the defect and resolve the issue.  It seems that DPMS has gone the extra mile and we are all waiting for the part to get to them for inspection and report back, or waiting for OP to post photos that might help resolve the dispute.

I'm not saying OP has "badmouthed" DPMS.  I am saying that OP is not being responsive to our requests for photos or DPMS' request to examine the part and attempt to resolve the complaint.  I think we are being reasonable in that expectation.
Link Posted: 7/3/2014 1:28:36 PM EDT
[#27]
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So now you are calling me a liar, You are a real piece of work...  You still think I was bad mouthing DPMS, so you must not be able to read or you are just interpreting your own facts and not the actual facts, like a said a real piece of work you are...  This is not even worth my time to sit hear and debate with you over something a ridiculous as this.  
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You've told several less-than truthful statements.  What did you expect?
Link Posted: 7/8/2014 6:24:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Still no pic?
Link Posted: 7/11/2014 1:46:26 PM EDT
[#29]
NVMD  
Link Posted: 9/2/2014 4:07:48 PM EDT
[#30]
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Still no pic?
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Link Posted: 9/2/2014 5:54:13 PM EDT
[#31]
I too have been waiting patiently for a pic. I've made no bones about being sold on DPMS as I have shot the hell out of mine and not had a single glitch. If I had something broke I would replace it with a DPMS part. Found out years ago if you want dependability use Chevy parts on Chevies and Ford parts on Fords. Just an opinion.
Link Posted: 9/2/2014 6:59:35 PM EDT
[#32]
The first two ARs I built myself were on DPMS parts kits I bought from an outfit in MN that is no longer in business in the late 90s early 00s. Both rifles shot great, 100% reliable except for one case of my reloads when I was still learning. About the only thing I didn't like was the unshrouded firing pins on the BCG but I think back then they were all like that.

DSA has been my go to company for small parts but I would not hesitate to use DPMS.
Link Posted: 9/2/2014 11:41:09 PM EDT
[#33]
nopic
Link Posted: 9/2/2014 11:46:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Fathom Arms Enhanced BCG. Made by Azimuth Tech.
Link Posted: 9/3/2014 12:37:23 AM EDT
[#35]
not GD. Didn't realize....

My B.
Link Posted: 9/4/2014 9:10:09 AM EDT
[#36]
OP, any BCG pic?
Link Posted: 9/4/2014 11:14:27 AM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 9/4/2014 12:26:37 PM EDT
[#38]
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^This.

What's wrong with the one you have?
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... and what does either of those two do special that the one you have doesn't?


^This.

What's wrong with the one you have?



Yup


Op go shoot that AR with the parts it was built with. Replace said parts as necessary.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/9/2014 9:52:54 AM EDT
[#39]
Link Posted: 9/9/2014 12:52:57 PM EDT
[#40]
A multi-year thread. Cool.
Link Posted: 9/10/2014 2:31:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 9/18/2014 12:13:57 PM EDT
[#42]
update on this
Link Posted: 9/18/2014 4:48:24 PM EDT
[#43]
Shipped back?

Pic?




?
Link Posted: 9/19/2014 12:29:07 AM EDT
[#44]
It's shipped guise... I'm tracking it right now:

Link Posted: 9/19/2014 12:38:23 AM EDT
[#45]
He answered in THIS thread
Link Posted: 9/19/2014 12:40:17 AM EDT
[#46]
hairline crack?  Call DPMS and tell them what you have....they will take care of you.
Link Posted: 9/19/2014 3:48:16 AM EDT
[#47]
PLUG: I like my DPMS rifles, LR308 and AP4.   Accurate and reliable.  


Link Posted: 9/19/2014 10:02:31 AM EDT
[#48]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


PLUG: I like my DPMS rifles, LR308 and AP4.   Accurate and reliable.  
View Quote
What scope is that?   Good looking rifle!

 



Oh yea OP still waiting for pictures.  
Link Posted: 9/19/2014 11:24:39 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Thinking of replacing my BCG on my DPMS was maybe thinking a Bravo Company of Rainer BCH looking for advice on which to go with.
View Quote


Somehing cheaper, like the rifle.

No reason to go premium on one part when it takes everything working correctly for the rifle to function.

For DPMS, something $100 or less.
Link Posted: 9/19/2014 11:29:02 AM EDT
[#50]
I just found out this is a crazy old thread someone dug up...

Stupid since it was stupid to start with...

But as long as it doesn't say "Sig brace" in the title, I don't even care anymore. Don't want to go back to AR pistol forum...
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