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Posted: 3/22/2017 10:38:26 AM EDT
[#1]
I updated some weights that were already in the spreadsheet, but didn't have user weights:
2A Armament Lightweight Bolt Carrier Group: 7.97oz 
BCM/VLTOR Gunfighter Charging Handle Mod 3 (Large latch): 1.26oz 
Bootleg Inc Picmod 13": 10.93oz (including mounting hardware) 
here's a new one that needs a line added to the sheet: Ballistic Advantage .625" Lo-Pro Gas Block - 1.41oz (didn't have the roll pin on there though) 
Thanks again for all your work, jek |
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Posted: 3/22/2017 11:13:49 AM EDT
[#2]
no problemo amigo. I added the gas block. I didn't even know that BA made them, so I'm glad you brought it to my attention. I added their 3 other sizes of lopro GBs that they make as well, though they'll be stuck at the 'bottom of the list' until we get some weights for them. It's still good to get them in there. thanks!
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Posted: 3/22/2017 3:13:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jekbrown]
[#3]
I'm not even done building my first LW AR and I'm already planning on my second.
 Question, if it's a range toy and not full auto, would it not be possible to run an AR without detents/springs for your take down pins? I mean, will they just 'walk out' on their own? Pondering a tegra poly lower with a poly LPK, but no bolt catch or the aforementioned parts.
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Posted: 3/22/2017 3:33:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Yes, they will walk out on their own. KNS makes push button pins that won't, but they're not lightweight.
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Posted: 3/22/2017 4:36:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jekbrown]
[#5]
lame. I can't think of any way to prevent that that wouldn't add more weight than the detents/springs do, unless you did something really custom. If you made an 80 lower you could thread the opposite 'ear' and use a custom aluminum screw instead of a pin, but there's so much weight savings to be had in a carbon fiber lower than it wouldn't be worth it.
I can still ditch my bolt catch though, which is good because that's the heaviest remaining part of the LPK and there's no good fix for that. The V7 ones aren't all that light, and the lone Ti option is $90+. zing! |
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Posted: 3/22/2017 4:50:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jekbrown:
I can still ditch my bolt catch though, which is good because that's the heaviest remaining part of the LPK and there's no good fix for that. The V7 ones aren't all that light, and the lone Ti option is $90+. zing! |
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Posted: 3/22/2017 5:04:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jekbrown]
[#7]
yeah, $90 for a bolt catch is just a bridge too far for me, especially when a rifle is entirely functional (and weighs less!) without one. It's almost more 'hardcore' to just leave it out of the gun than it is to spend the $90.
For me the most ridiculous part on my current LW build is the V7 buffer retainer. The stock one weighs damn near zero as it is...going Ti saves about 3 hundredths of an ounce. lol Way out front (muzzle device, gas block, bbl, etc.) it makes sense to shave ounces where ever you can...but the buffer retainer is behind your grip, so it's safe to say that no one ever 'felt' that extra 0.03oz. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 1:10:46 AM EDT
[#8]
Just ditch the buffer retainer. It's not needed, just makes assembly easier.
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Posted: 3/23/2017 1:25:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jekbrown]
[#9]
you can do that, sure. I always leave them out with guns that have a JP SCS. Some people shorten the retainer and use then with the SCS...seems silly to me. Anyway...good point. If it remains functional, ditching parts should always be on the table for an ultralight build.
I was thinking about the take down pins again. I think with a poly lower it might be possible to dimple the plastic on the far-side of the pin hole such that it is sufficient to retain the pins without the detents/springs. Not sure I want to 'brick' a poly lower trying it though. lol. With a tegra lower, new frontier poly LPK, no buffer retainer or bolt catch and a smoke composits short CF stock/extension, you'd be on your way to a hella-light AR. Prolly feel really front heavy even with a pencil bbl, but still...crazy light. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2017 4:19:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jekbrown:
Pondering a tegra poly lower with a poly LPK, but no bolt catch or the aforementioned parts. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 10:21:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tgad2]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jekbrown:
Added the items you listed, few Qs on the above: Faxon: are you sure on that bbl weight? it's a few oz different than factory specs. just wanna make sure it's accurate... V7 FH: is this a discontinued item? I don't see it on their site? I do put discontinued things in the PWD, I just want to make sure I'm not misidentifying a current one... SLR Sentry 6: can you confirm this weight? with or without set screws? it's quite a bit diff than the factory weight or another users... thanks for the data! The V7 Ti Extended A2 style FH with V-grooves is the same as the one on their site without the V-grooves; it may be a tad lighter. There's a photo of the V-grooved one on the website next to the normal one. I don't seeing offered as an option now. Also, I see a weight was just posted for the 2A Regulated Bolt Carrier. I have one here I weighed tonight and mine weighed 8.05 oz. EDIT: I see he didn't mention his was the REGULATED version. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 2:13:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Got stitchclimber's barrel nut in today. Looks fantastic. I'm gonna get it mounted tonight and have it with me for tomorrow's pewpewpew session.
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Posted: 3/24/2017 4:42:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hfrog355:
Got stitchclimber's barrel nut in today. Looks fantastic. I'm gonna get it mounted tonight and have it with me for tomorrow's pewpewpew session. http://i.imgur.com/EAinaiMl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YjXrVNsl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/vu0zOpQl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/SMKYZhol.jpg I know a few folks might be worried about the barrel nut being smaller(on average .004") than the factory one but, I cal all but guaran-damn-tee you that it will not affect function once the rail is mounted up and the cross bolts are even remotely tightened. We could not make one to fit every single persons KMR at this price, I hope you can understand. Hopefully if we can do a second run, we will adjust the O.D. to be slightly larger. I will also point to anyone to the patents granted to BCM, there is no mention of a friction-fit requirement. I tested the smallest one of the batch I could find(kept if for myself) on a friend's M16 and after a 60 round Magpul drum and two 30 round mags as fast as we could keep the gun on target, the rail did not budge, move, rotate or come off. I did though, burn a hole in one of my SKD PiG gloves so all was not lost... 
Please, please try the barrel nut before condemning it and sending it back for a refund. If installed correctly, you will not have an issue. Some might take offense to this but, most of the lightweight guns will not be run on M16 lowers or get beat up like a very select group of folks do to their stuff. I would not have released these if I didn't think they were absolutely safe. Sorry for the rant, just want to be sure that you good folks understand what goes into this process. I still have about 25 left so if anyone wants more, please let me know. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2017 8:16:22 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stitchclimber:
Thanks for posting hfrog355! I'm glad to see my two scales read the same as yours, haha! Please let me know how you like it! I know a few folks might be worried about the barrel nut being smaller(on average .004") than the factory one but, I cal all but guaran-damn-tee you that it will not affect function once the rail is mounted up and the cross bolts are even remotely tightened. We could not make one to fit every single persons KMR at this price, I hope you can understand. Hopefully if we can do a second run, we will adjust the O.D. to be slightly larger. I will also point to anyone to the patents granted to BCM, there is no mention of a friction-fit requirement. I tested the smallest one of the batch I could find(kept if for myself) on a friend's M16 and after a 60 round Magpul drum and two 30 round mags as fast as we could keep the gun on target, the rail did not budge, move, rotate or come off. I did though, burn a hole in one of my SKD PiG gloves so all was not lost...
Please, please try the barrel nut before condemning it and sending it back for a refund. If installed correctly, you will not have an issue. Some might take offense to this but, most of the lightweight guns will not be run on M16 lowers or get beat up like a very select group of folks do to their stuff. I would not have released these if I didn't think they were absolutely safe. Sorry for the rant, just want to be sure that you good folks understand what goes into this process. I still have about 25 left so if anyone wants more, please let me know. |
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Posted: 3/24/2017 9:34:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: vallopez2000]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ahrion:
I haven't received an email or anything back regarding the bnut after making a pmt |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 12:30:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: hfrog355]
[#16]
Yeah, it not only looks good, but it lives up to the billing. It's hard to tell from the video, but I'm pushing/pulling on the handguard pretty hard in this. I would say it's on par with the BCM B-nut. Nice work!
 Picmod with LW B-Nut |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2017 1:15:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SOCOM76]
[#17]
I purchased a KMR13 and KMR10 in February of 2014. By the end of the year, I had removed the rail and reinstalled it several times, and in doing so, the rail lost the friction fitment. Just over 3 years later, the loss of the friction fitment has never been a problem, and rest assured, between training and carbine courses, I run my rifles hard. I was hoping for a larger barrel nut to regain the friction fitment, but the lock-up system at the base of the rail system is far more important than the friction fitment. Historically, since the debut of the KMR, some rails required heat to install and remove, and others did not. The method in which the rail attaches to the barrel nut is simple, yet robust. In my opinion, the best, followed by Geissele's lock-up system.
Point is, Stitch is correct in his statements above. |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 3:05:50 AM EDT
[#18]
Thanks everyone! I'm glad these are working out so far. For those yet to get there's they are on the way! I partially dislocated my hip so I've been very limited in getting out of the house.
I can't wait to get my lightweight barrel and continue my build! This "lightweight" FN barrel is anything but. Funny how certain manufacturers versions of LW is COMPLETELY different from others... Wish they could all be on the same page, ya know? |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2017 4:35:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SOCOM76]
[#19]
Won't be installing mine until Monday or Tuesday.
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USA
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Posted: 3/25/2017 12:02:43 PM EDT
[#20]
What are these aluminum KMR barrel nuts going for?
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Posted: 3/25/2017 2:06:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BeltFed_1:
What are these aluminum KMR barrel nuts going for? I helped my friend with the M16 assemble a new 11.5" upper the other day so he could save the original A1 upper and we used a Midwest Industries 10" G3 Lightweight M-LOK handguard. It's SOOO light! The barrel nut is steel but there's not much to it so it doesn't ruin the lightweight aspect of the rail. Pictured underneath is a POF Dictator but he ended up going with the Superlative Arms .750" Bleed-Off gas block since they work so well for suppressed guns. The only issue we had with this rail was that there is really no protection for the hand. If putting a lot of rounds downrange fast, covers and/or gloves are a must. I've been handling more and more of these rails lately and as I do, I like them more and more. For me though, considering the KMR-A isn't that much more, I'll probably stick with that for the time being. Anyone think aluminum barrel nuts for the MI G3 rails would sell? I don't think there is much weight to lose but I see more and more people using them every day, it seems. 
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Posted: 3/25/2017 7:19:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: check-raiser]
[#22]
I don't know if I would do Al for the MI bbl nut, since the friction fit requires knurling on the bbl nut. I would like the anti rotation plate (g3 rails) to be made of Ti to save an ounce (but at what cost lol).
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2017 8:23:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Can't speak for the G3, but before the debut of the G3, I convinced my brother to purchase the G2, which was a complete waste of money, and completely my fault.
Going in, I knew that a rail could not be retained on a barrel nut using a sub-standard clamping system that consisted of two bolts with extremely limited torque values, and a mild adhesive that essentially glues the rail to the barrel nut. Nothing short of absurd, but figured I might be missing something. Nope, I did not miss a thing, but still my fault. Even if marketed as a secondary precaution, gluing anything to a weapon should have been enough to warrant cause for concern, and I ignored it. Needless to say, that rail repeatedly dislodged from the barrel nut. Not partially, but completely. I will never own anything from MI. Never... |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 10:09:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SOCOM76:
Can't speak for the G3, but before the debut of the G3, I convinced my brother to purchase the G2, which was a complete waste of money, and completely my fault. Going in, I knew that a rail could not be retained on a barrel nut using a sub-standard clamping system that consisted of two bolts with extremely limited torque values, and a mild adhesive that essentially glues the rail to the barrel nut. Nothing short of absurd, but figured I might be missing something. Nope, I did not miss a thing, but still my fault. Even if marketed as a secondary precaution, gluing anything to a weapon should have been enough to warrant cause for concern, and I ignored it. Needless to say, that rail repeatedly dislodged from the barrel nut. Not partially, but completely. I will never own anything from MI. Never... For another buddy who installed a Seekins adjustable gas block but could not get to the gas screw with the rail on. Instead of taking it off and on, I simply put the rail on the mill and cut a slot for the hex key. Easy peasy. I like some of the MI stuff, but other things I don't. Their products are WAY, WAY better than even five years ago and at least for me, their CS has drastically improved. So no MI barrel nuts, what next? |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2017 11:06:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SOCOM76]
[#25]
To index the barrel nut for the gas system, I remember having to torque the barrel nut to 70ft/lbs. Using that amount of leverage against an aluminum barrel nut would snap the teeth right off.
The worst thing about MI is they knew their mounting system was ridiculously weak, and instead of developing a new tab, they tossed a tube of glue in the box, continued marketing the G2, and started development the G3. What's next? Hmm... |
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Posted: 3/25/2017 11:39:03 PM EDT
[#26]
The MI G3 has a non indexing barrel nut that can be torqued between 30-60 ft lbs per the included instructions. The lower torque value, offset by the antirotation plate system, makes the Al nut possible.
Btw, I haven't had one issue with the helicoils, green loctite adhesive, or fitment with 1 x 12 G2 SSK lw and 2 x 15" G3 Mlok rails |
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Posted: 3/26/2017 1:13:24 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By check-raiser:
The MI G3 has a non indexing barrel nut that can be torqued between 30-60 ft lbs per the included instructions. The lower torque value, offset by the antirotation plate system, makes the Al nut possible. Btw, I haven't had one issue with the helicoils, green loctite adhesive, or fitment with 1 x 12 G2 SSK lw and 2 x 15" G3 Mlok rails I had a couple of the earliest Troy TRX rails and one pulled a helicoil in about three removal and installs and the next took about six. I dealt with it until they got close to releasing the Alpha Rail and they swapped me out at no charge to me. The MI uses larger screws so that's good. I do like the fact the barrel nut does not have to be indexed. I love my SMOS and Noveske rails and have gotten install down pat, but the barrel nut design is an understandable sticking point for new or less experienced folks. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2017 12:31:20 AM EDT
[#28]
Does anyone know how much the bcm kmr hardware screws weigh. I saw that they ha e titanium options and wanted to see the difference
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Posted: 3/27/2017 12:39:43 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brettwurst:
Does anyone know how much the bcm kmr hardware screws weigh. I saw that they ha e titanium options and wanted to see the difference Did you want just the screws or the screws and clamps? |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2017 1:01:07 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jwood562:
I have both the titanium and oem at home. I can weigh both for you on my reloading scale. Very accurate scale to the 100ths of a gram. Did you want just the screws or the screws and clamps? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jwood562:
Originally Posted By Brettwurst:
Does anyone know how much the bcm kmr hardware screws weigh. I saw that they ha e titanium options and wanted to see the difference Did you want just the screws or the screws and clamps? |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 1:53:46 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brettwurst:
Screws and clamps of both would be awesome 19g OEM vs 15g titanium screw, clamps and U-clip |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 2:05:28 AM EDT
[#32]
I am hoping my al BCM KMR nuts come in soon from stitch climber.
As some of you may have seen or remember, my goal was 3.5lbs complete with billet upper and lower with sights. After putting everything together and carefully weighing all parts against one another I will come in a little above my goal weight of 3.5lbs I have tried everything from polymer LPKs and all parts. Full write up coming soon |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2017 10:24:43 AM EDT
[#33]
How do we weigh uppers nowadays; with or without BUIS, charging handle, BCG, etc?
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Posted: 3/27/2017 10:55:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SOCOM76:
How do we weigh uppers nowadays; with or without BUIS, charging handle, BCG, etc? |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2017 11:08:54 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jwood562:
I cannot find my super accurate reloading scale so this is based off my digital postal scale which does not give me tenths of a gram. 19g OEM vs 15g titanium screw, clamps and U-clip |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 11:37:54 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jwood562:
I cannot find my super accurate reloading scale so this is based off my digital postal scale which does not give me tenths of a gram. 19g OEM vs 15g titanium screw, clamps and U-clip |
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Posted: 3/27/2017 12:39:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jwood562]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hfrog355:
I know about LW barrel nuts and I know V7 is doing the clamps in Ti, but who is making LW screws and U-clips? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hfrog355:
Originally Posted By Jwood562:
I cannot find my super accurate reloading scale so this is based off my digital postal scale which does not give me tenths of a gram. 19g OEM vs 15g titanium screw, clamps and U-clip Edit. Never mind. I thought they came with the screws |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2017 5:17:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Any idea on weights of hera arms irs keymod rails? They are pretty reasonably priced if they are lightweight
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Posted: 3/27/2017 7:13:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jekbrown]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brettwurst:
Any idea on weights of hera arms irs keymod rails? They are pretty reasonably priced if they are lightweight 
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2017 7:27:17 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jekbrown:
not seeing good weights anywhere. Just looking at it, it looks relatively light, but the steel bbl nut might be kinda hefty. I've added them to the database and will be 'on the lookout' for this info. Some of their rails have weight data on LAN World, but it's only some of them...it's rounded to the nearest full ounce...and it never includes the barrel nut. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jekbrown:
Originally Posted By Brettwurst:
Any idea on weights of hera arms irs keymod rails? They are pretty reasonably priced if they are lightweight |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2017 9:09:22 PM EDT
[#41]
So I'm looking to lighten my rifle which was not a build and bought as is. It's an 18 inch steel fluted heavy barrel with Samson evolution 15 inch handguard. Rifle weighs at 7.8lbs and while I know there are plenty of parts I can lighten, I am mainly concerned with front weight of the rifle. I called Samson and they say their weights include barrel nut, but I feel like it's heavier than what they say. Anyone actually weigh this? Anyone think it's worth replacing handguards to make noticeable difference? Barrel fluted still weighs 2.4lbs too. Any input is welcome
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2017 11:16:46 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brettwurst:
So I'm looking to lighten my rifle which was not a build and bought as is. It's an 18 inch steel fluted heavy barrel with Samson evolution 15 inch handguard. Rifle weighs at 7.8lbs and while I know there are plenty of parts I can lighten, I am mainly concerned with front weight of the rifle. I called Samson and they say their weights include barrel nut, but I feel like it's heavier than what they say. Anyone actually weigh this? Anyone think it's worth replacing handguards to make noticeable difference? Barrel fluted still weighs 2.4lbs too. Any input is welcome |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2017 11:25:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SlappyT1:
I personally would stick with what you have already. Is it a Stag 3G? You could always drop a 1/4 lb+ off the front end with a titanium gas block, lighter muzzle device, and BCM or 2a rail, but that really seems like peanuts with a barrel that heavy. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SlappyT1:
Originally Posted By Brettwurst:
So I'm looking to lighten my rifle which was not a build and bought as is. It's an 18 inch steel fluted heavy barrel with Samson evolution 15 inch handguard. Rifle weighs at 7.8lbs and while I know there are plenty of parts I can lighten, I am mainly concerned with front weight of the rifle. I called Samson and they say their weights include barrel nut, but I feel like it's heavier than what they say. Anyone actually weigh this? Anyone think it's worth replacing handguards to make noticeable difference? Barrel fluted still weighs 2.4lbs too. Any input is welcome |
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Posted: 3/28/2017 9:20:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brettwurst:
Yep it's a 3G. I swapped out theirs with vg6 epsilon which is a little lighter I believe. I was even looking at that new faxon streamline carbon fiber which would knock off ablout 7-8 oz with titanium barrel nut and couple that with ¼ lb gas block that might be legit and make it under 7 lbs. Are the gas blocks really 4 oz? |
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Posted: 3/29/2017 11:40:10 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stitchclimber:Anyone think aluminum barrel nuts for the MI G3 rails would sell? I don't think there is much weight to lose but I see more and more people using them every day, it seems. |
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Posted: 3/29/2017 3:36:44 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jekbrown:
Might depend on the weight savings, but I do really like what MI has done with their line of rails. Very diverse. They have something for just about everyone and at very competitive prices...so yeah, if there is significant weight savings I think you might have another viable product on your hands... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jekbrown:
Originally Posted By stitchclimber:Anyone think aluminum barrel nuts for the MI G3 rails would sell? I don't think there is much weight to lose but I see more and more people using them every day, it seems. |
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Posted: 3/29/2017 9:06:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: check-raiser]
[#47]
Rock River Arms "Star" Safety Selector weighed at 15.5 grams (.55 oz). Compared with a standard selector, I would assume slightly less mass (than weighed) by the looks of it.
Bootleg std charging handle, 7074 31.9 grams (1.14 oz). |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/30/2017 3:31:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Odinworks o2 forend 15" 6.7 oz with 2.7 oz hardware. This would be worth making titanium or lighter aluminum barrel nut system to lighten further
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Posted: 3/30/2017 4:09:50 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brettwurst:
Odinworks o2 forend 15" 6.7 oz with 2.7 oz hardware. This would be worth making titanium or lighter aluminum barrel nut system to lighten further |
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Posted: 3/30/2017 11:12:27 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brettwurst:
Odinworks o2 forend 15" 6.7 oz with 2.7 oz hardware. This would be worth making titanium or lighter aluminum barrel nut system to lighten further |
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