Sounds like you were sold a Chicom knockoff. They are all over GB and even pop up on Ebay once in awhile.

This is why I only  buy from reputable dealers with parts that are properly marked. I don't want a weapon to blow up in my face because I saved $1

I believe this is a case or combination of failed quality control and faulty material used/treated.  I would think that even "cheap knockoffs" would last longer than 30 rounds.

First, I don't know this vendor, or have any parts from him. Sounds like he is doing the right thing, so we should all wait and see how this turns out.

But separate from this particular bolt and seller (because again, I see nothing here but a freak occurrence so far) why would you expect "cheap knockoffs" to last ONE round?

We all need to understand that in a Great Panic there is ready money to be made. Cheap Chicom crap is out there, and more and more is being sold on auction sites and forums. Over on Calguns there are some prices that are just too good to be true, and strangely enough reports started coming back that some of those uppers and BCGs had serious failures. Yet those vendors are still on Calguns, and people are buying, and customers are declaring the parts are the best thing this side of God's Own AR. They haven't actually fired them, you see, but they look mil-spec so they must be GTG. But if you can buy as many uppers as you want in this Great Panic for $400 including BCG, and the parts are mil-spec but unbranded and the vendor is non-responsive as to where they are all coming from, I could hazard a guess as to the country of origin.

Again, I do not ascribe cheap or Chicom to the bolt in this thread. There are plenty of fine machine shops in the US that can order the correct steel(s), machine and heat treat to spec, and test the resulting product. Just because a bolt isn't stamped MPC or HPT/MPI or BLAH/BLAH/BLAH doesn't mean it isn't a good bolt. It also doesn't mean it IS a good bolt.

Know your vendor. So far meputtin sounds like a decent vendor.

meputtin is actually a dealer from the digging I did when I ordered mine.

s-n-sshootingsupplies.com, his domain has been registered since December 2003, so I think he's legit. :)

Again, I don't know who meputtin is but so far he seems like a good vendor. Which I said 4 times. If he is SNS Shooting it looks like there should be no worries, and he would be another good source for parts.

I was trying to point out to people that there are bad vendors with bad parts out there whose only purpose is to make a buck (or $300), and to do some checking if they don't know who they are dealing with. Someone posted on one of the Great Panic "Oh my god it's in stock so buy it NOW!" threads about a parts source from another forum. I checked into that vendor a while back from that other forum, completely separate from ARF and before the insanity, and choose not to buy from them. Soon after that some reports suggested that quality might be less than claimed and the customer service received was lacking. Buying unknown parts from unknown vendors either online or at the local fun show is everyone's choice; don't be surprised when you find out that the person who made out like a bandit on the deal was not you.

alaskas, thanks for your input and I agree with you.  When I made the purchase,I made sure to do some research on the seller before buying.  When i did, I found that he was the owner of sns-shooting and that they were a brick and mortar gun shop.  I also didn't see a single complaint regarding him or the product he sells. My guess is that he does indeed have a manufacturer that builds these for him as he also sells custom suppressors amongst other things.  He called me first thing this morning to address the issue.  His livelihood depends on the products he sells and the way he treats his customers.  




 

hopefully this isnt a sign of spotty QC throughout the industry due to the panic

Makes one wonder. I bought a Joe Bob's bolt, they seem to get good/great reviews, although it is not marked in any way. I am on the prowle for atleast a colt bolt and will slap that in the carrier. My biggest fear is having that bolt fly apart in my face. (Ihavent shot it yet and Im not implying it will fly apart, I just dont want to take any chances).

Dude, you got everyone all riled up and worried if they have one of these bolts, and don't even have the courtesy to try and figure out the manufacturer?

So who ended up being the manufacturer??

ETA:  35mm beat me to it

i bought a pair from meputtin, on ebay over the weekend. payment went to sns shooting supplies. i emailed him to ask who the manufacturer was and all i got was... "i do"

Century Arms rouge employee from the sounds of it. Breaking into their garage after hours and whittling his own BCG's...

The cam pin busted, and the jagged edges of the busted cam pin are what put the new finish on your firing pin.

Once the teeth on the bolt failed, the cam pin is what kept the bolt carrier group from moving to the rear when you fired... That's why it grrrd your upper, and that's why it broke.

With no locking lugs on the bolt to 'pull' the bolt out of the carrier, the cam pin stayed in the locked position, making it hard to get your carrier out.

Courtesy?  Please dont try to school me on coutesy. I can only tell you what I know.  I have only been able to speak to him once.  I asked him who the manufacturer is and all he told me was that he didnt wish to disclose who built them for him due to a confidentiality agreement.  He said it was a military contractor.  And for all those worrying if you bought one from the same manufacturer, if you didnt buy from that seller, you most likely didnt buy one that was manufacturered by the same company.  Like I said, even a "shitty" bolt wont fail after 30 rounds.  There was obviously something completely flawed with this one.

fucking newbis





 

Is that a TiN bolt or is it just the color balance that makes it look gold

If you send me the locking lug pieces I can check the R.C. on our Instron tester. That could rule out improper Heat Treating.. My guess would be, they were improperly drawn back after hardening.
Poor QC.

It's just the color balance.  It was taken with my iPhone under incandescent lighting.

 

I would love to, but the seller is requesting that I send everything back so that he can test it out to make sure he's not selling more like this.  I received his package today.  So far, he's been an upstanding man of his word. It says a lot for the type of business he runs.  Now its just a matter of the controlling the quality of the parts that he needs to investigate.  I'm going to call him before I send it because I want to know what the conclusion is when he tests everything.





 

And you accidentally lost a lug at the range...  For the sake of 3rd party testing of course!

Did no one ever look at any of these parts before last December? LOL.

The conjoined "MP" with a "C" is an old Colt mark that was/has been engraved on their bolts.  This one's from a rifle manufactured in the 80's:

So now anyone with an AR made of 'pre-panic' parts can add another $200 to the value. :) A whole new classification.

I have a BCG and the only markings on bolt and carrier is the letter D

Opinions anyone ?

It might be a good idea to send a couple of the piece out for testing somewhere else, as long as you are going to get them back.

Once you send all of the evidence to the Seller, you have no proof the the BCG was defective in the first place, if the whole thing goes south.

I bought a BCG from meputtin as well on ebay and it had no markings and no chrome lining on anything.  So I called him up and asked him the manufacturer.  Gave me an answer something like if he tells me where his fishing hole is everyone will want to fish there.  The guy seemed nice enough though.
Later I sent him an email asking him specifics on the BCG steel and this is what I got.



Any guess on the manufacturer?

"Manufacturers" don't like to disclose who makes their products for them.  It saves them having the customer go straight to the maker hoping to get it for less.  Some makers will sell small parts to individuals, some will only sell in quantity and get annoyed when people call them looking for just a couple bolts.

8620 is the wrong steel for a bolt.  Correct for the carrier, but not at all for the bolt.  There can be good arguments for 9310 ( the steel JP Superbolts are made from), but not for 8620 other than it's cheap.

dpms, or whoever makes theirs is my guess.

Jarmstrong, any new updates?  Any word on what caused this?  Did you receive a new BCG?  How is it running?

Sounds like this misrepresented bolt.

8620 bolt and 4130 carrier is not mil-spec.  

DPMS uses Carpenter steel for the bolts...

After speaking with the seller, He sent me a brand new BCG overnight.  I packaged up the pieces and sent them out to him so that He could figure out what went wrong.  I talked to him a good bit about any issues he's had or what may have gone wrong.  He didn't want to disclose the name of the manufacturer because of this thread causing some backlash for a problem that may have been isolated.  Since this is really the only time he or I have heard of a bolt failing after only 30 rds. I could understand that.  They use these BCGs in their own guns and have sold them for a while now with no issue.  When it comes to how he handled the situation, I can say that he was very accommodating, apologetic, and wanted to make things right.  I believe there is a reason why he has 100% positive feedback and I wouldn't be hesitant from buying from him again.

Could be bad material or not the proper material. Good on the seller for taking care of you.

The guy has 100% feedback because feedback has to be left within a certain number of days after the end of the auction or you cant leave it at all. You cant 'change' your feedback after the part FAILS 3 months down the road...

Your part failed because it was made from the wrong steel for the job. He replaced a bad part with an equally bad part.

The part failed after 30 rounds... If this was an occurance that happened often, we would here about it. Can you name any other occurances where a  bolt failed after 30 rounds?

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_66/601696_my_bolt_exploded_what_did_I_do_______.html



 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/603032_Joe_Bob_s_Cera_plated_M16_BCG______.html

"We do know the bolts affected were more than the batch of 600 we recently received, as other bolts received by other dealers and manufacturers have had issues arise as well. So it's really a crap-shoot unfortunately to know which ones were affected or not.

None of the heat treating defects would have been noticed in test firing since most seem to be breaking in the 20-60 round range with factory loads."


Like I said, YOU bought a crappy part (that failed) and then got a crappy part for a replacement.

If you happen to go to a public shooting range you should warn anyone near you that you have an unsafe rifle that may blow up and send crap flying in their direction...

Wrong material for the bolt there, sport. 158 Carpenter is the correct steel

do they?..

Yes they use Carpenter steel. You can always ask them yourself in the industry section here...

Also, If you had read the entire thread here you would have noticed that this is NOT a Tin BCG. OP said the camera angle made it appear to be that color but it is not.

hello.  i just purchased one of these bolt carrier groups from "meputtin" on gunbroker.  i admit, i bought it as part of the panic.  i am one of the buyers who would actually like to use it.  i made an account here so i could share what ive learned so far.  maybe it can be of some value to people.  its not much, but here it goes...
ive been watching for a bcg as part of a build that does not break the bank.  i found this one for $200 and got it.  2 days ago i made the purchase.  i sent an email to "meputtin" asking for a phone number so i could pay with a credit card.  i got a reply from dave smith and made the call.  i spoke with a woman. pretty much the first thing i asked was who manufactured it.  she said she didnt think she could tell me for some kind of confidentiality purpose.  this immediately made me uncomfortable.  she did say i could speak with dave for more info, but he was threading a barrel and she couldnt interupt him while machining.  i gave my number and she said he would call.  i began doing some online research, and found that dave smith is the owner of sns shooting supplies in ms.  seems like they do custom work and machine some things like silencers.  thats when i found this thread in this forum.  at that point i was super worried.  for certain i bought complete junk.  it was about an hour later when dave smith called me back.  perhaps the most southern sounding guy ive ever spoken with.  i asked who manufactured the bcg, and he would not say.  he told me he just didnt want to reveal his source for a number of reasons.  the reasons he stated are normal reasons of wholesale/retail consideration.  although it may be rare in this industry, it is normal in other industries as this i know for sure because i am a wholesaler in a different industry.  for about the next 45 min i spoke with dave about several things.  he was very nice and very talkative.  he knows a considerable amount of knowledge about custom work with other firearms.  some important elements came out that i think you guys might be interested in.  i pretty much told him that after doing research online about this particular bcg from him, that i was scared to use it.  he told me i could cancel my order if i wished but he had total confidence in the product.  he told me about the no bs lifetime warrenty and he was sincere.  i dont see a problem with that.  he also told me that when he does ar type builds that he always uses this bcg and has had no complaints.  i asked him spesificly about the bcg in this thread with this particular problem.  he told me all about pretty much everything thats been covered here already.  he told me that he believes it was a heat treating issue, but was not 100% sure yet and was waiting on the manufacturer.  he told me the bcgs for sale now are of a different batch.  he also told me freely how he angered people online in forums because of his more or less straight forward opinions and interactions.  he does seem like a pretty straight forward guy.  after about 30 min talking to him, i assured him i was just a guy doing a build and in no way trying to infringe on his bcg source.  i was still really sketchy though because i didnt want to risk bodily harm or damage to my firearm.  i more or less begged him to give me more information on the bcg he was selling.  at that point, perhaps the most important thing he said came forward.  he wouldnt tell me who made it, but he told me this:  he said it is made by a big manufacturer in the midwest.  he also told me that this exact same bcg is sold at midway usa under there house brand of the ar stoner bcg.  in all, i talked to him for about 45 min.  i ended up letting him go because i felt like i was taking up too much of his time, but he would have continued to talk with me for longer had i wanted.  he was a pretty nice guy.  i cant comment on the quality of the product becasue i dont have it yet, but i think i can say that dave is not trying to sell junk.  i believe that he believes that these are quality bcgs.  he also, without me asking, told me the metals used in the bcg parts.  they are as stated earlier in this thread, and in midways ar stoner bcg.  i questioned the bolt material and he believes in his opinion, that its better.  im not trying to troll, just stating what he was saying.  he has strong favorable opinions of this bcg.  
 so im wondering.... does anyone know who the midwest manufacturer of the midway ar stoner bcg is? because that would be the manufacturer of this bcg according to dave himself.  
 i hope this may have helped someone here in some way.  that was my only reason for posting.  
be safe.

This whole thing about the seller downplaying it as an "isolated incident" and also a heat-treating issue has me scratching my head.

They run the hardening operation in batches, do they not?  How many bolts in a batch? 100? 200? etc.

i do remember him telling me that this manufacturer makes around 8000 per month.  i know nothing of the processes though.

Colt has used a variety of markings over the years, including plain "C" marked.  MPC is without question the most common, but there are others.

Head spacing.

You got lucky. Where are the cases?

I had the same conversation with him.  After seeing the similarities between this BCG and the AR-stoner I too believed that they could have been made by the same  manufacturer.  The BCG I received as a replacement has been flawless so far but there are the armchair know-it-alls like ar-15tech guy that says my rifle is dangerous with no basis to back up his statement as he has no evidence of what batch my BCG came from.  Just like most posts on an internet forum; take them with a grain of salt.  Everyone knows everything on the internet.

Some manufacturers test every single bolt, I believe.  But I'm guessing this is batch tested.  Which makes it even more important to figure out the cause and build date.

well, im really curious who makes this now after reading all this and purchasing one.  i think we can safely say this is the ar stoner bcg sold at midway.  but i cant find any info on that really, except dave saying its made in the midwest.  does anyone what manufacturer that is?

If I remember correctly, 8620 was the steel used in the original colt/armalite rifle bolts, and this was the original spec. Then later C158 was phased in as a better alternative, which it is.  Your 8620 bolts will not self destruct in 30-60 rounds if properly heat-treated, but also are not the bolt I would choose, especially in a carbine. C158, 9310 and AeroMet  are much better steels of choice, but also more expensive and harder to machine - thus more expensive. AR-Stoner accepts 8620 as good enough, I personally do not.

Someone, correct me if I am wrong. I will look for more data on this and post it if found. Also, I do not mind being corrected if my info is incorrect.

From the info I am gathering - after my bolt sheared the lugs last Friday on the fourth round down the barrel- there are at least three dealers/distributors that  have used this batch of bolts in their carriers. My question is how many manufacturers make bolts in the US?  Most i can find is six.  Not everyone has the ability to produce bolts( I wouldn't think).  I have heard from two sources that these bolts came from the midwest.  Wonder if that is who made them or coated them?

Can someone post the different manufacturers who has more knowledge than I do

There are now a couple of different "brands" showing up in that giant BGC thread that are using 4140 for bolt steel.  What's the take on this?

I know there are some barrels out there that are 4140, and they are frowned upon (no clue why, I don't own one) so I am curious about that steel being used for a bolt Perhaps the heat treating is the key, I am not sure.