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Posted: 4/24/2012 5:37:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
New builder here, joining the AR club like everyone seems to be doing these days. I went with a Hammer Forged Chrome-Lined 20 inch Upper from Palmetto State. I actually sent the first one back because the barrel had some scratches. After a couple of E-mails with PSA, they sent me a shipping label. I dropped it off at Staples last Thursday night, PSA got it Monday and had it back to me Tuesday. They sent me a hat for my troubles. That's great customer service. I've been looking it over carefully and I'm a little concerned after reading the other post on here with the out of spec BCM upper mounted to the PSA lower. My upper looks a little uneven to me. Unfortunately, I don't yet have a lower to mount it to so that I can check more closely See the pic below: http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd293/breenemeister/AR/PSAAR.jpg The left side is obviously wider. When actually measured, the left is a little more than 2 mm at the top and the right side is around 1.5 mm at the top. Is this enough to worry about? I hope that I'm just over-analyzing as I tend to do that. What do you guys think? I have a PSA upper and it is exactly the same. Never noticed it. I compared it with my Stag Arms and they are different. The Stag Arms is thicker in that area and of equal thickness on both sides of center line. Just looking at it by eye. 
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Posted: 4/24/2012 5:44:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Another person post a pic of another maker's upper that out of spec the same way. I don't think it is PSA that made it wrong, it was the company that is cutting the forged pieces. It just shows that maker's are not making as much as they are just building using the same suppliers. Your upper is out of spec, or sure looks that way in your picture. I recently got an AP upper from Surplus Arms and it is spot on and has a really cool American Flag etched behind the last pic rail groove. I am pretty happy with the way the budget upper looks.
My current build is a PSA lower, CMMG LPK, PSA RE and Buffer, Magpul MOE, AP upper, Black Rifle Works upper parts, nothing forward of that yet and no BCG. Building over time to spread out the costs. |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 5:45:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Another person post a pic of another maker's upper that out of spec the same way. I don't think it is PSA that made it wrong, it was the company that is cutting the forged pieces. It just shows that maker's are not making as much as they are just building using the same suppliers. Your upper is out of spec, or sure looks that way in your picture. I recently got an AP upper from Surplus Arms and it is spot on and has a really cool American Flag etched behind the last pic rail groove. I am pretty happy with the way the budget upper looks. My current build is a PSA lower, CMMG LPK, PSA RE and Buffer, Magpul MOE, AP upper, Black Rifle Works upper parts, nothing forward of that yet and no BCG. Building over time to spread out the costs. I agree, BCM had this issue just days ago |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 5:54:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Send PSA the picture and ask them the question.
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Posted: 4/24/2012 5:56:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Just checked my PSA uppers that I received some months ago and they are spot on. Wait till you get your lower and mount it and see how it looks or ask a friend to mount it on his/her lower and see how it looks. It's hard to say from a picture what is off the slot or the OD.
My PSA uppers fit my lowers perfectly. |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 5:59:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Thanks for the replies. I really wish I had a lower that I could mount it to. I'm probably looking at 2 weeks or more on that. I'll have to get in touch with friends with ARs and get someone to attach it to a lower. It just seems wrong. I'm very new to ARs, but I'd say both sides should be equal. Regardless of whether the outside diameter is off or the whole thing is drilled off-center, it's not right, especially not for what these things cost. If it has to go back to PSA, it will be it's second trip home. I really don't want to go there.
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Posted: 4/24/2012 6:04:45 PM EDT
[#8]
If the slot is on center and the OD is off, when it is on a lower you will not notice one single thing... it will look normal. You only have a potential problem if the slot is off.
Don't make a big deal out of it until you know what the problem is. Take it to a gun shop somewhere and ask a clerk if he will mount it on a lower if you have to. The ones I deal with would be happy to do that for me. Check it first before you waste time sending it back in to PSA. |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 6:07:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Send PSA the picture and ask them the question. Good call, why should I worry about it? Email sent. |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 6:17:58 PM EDT
[#10]
I check my guns out when I first get them, but I wouldn't even think to look for this, now I know. How did you notice it or is it just so far off that you can't miss it?
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Posted: 4/24/2012 6:22:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Just looked at my DPMS A1 upper and both sides are the same.
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Posted: 4/24/2012 6:26:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I check my guns out when I first get them, but I wouldn't even think to look for this, now I know. How did you notice it or is it just so far off that you can't miss it? I was browsing today and saw the other thread about the BCM upper that was off. That's why I checked a little more closely. But since I've seen it, it's hard for me not to notice it if you know what I mean. We'll see what PSA thinks and I'm going to try to get it mounted on someone's lower this weekend. Man, that sounded dirty. |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 6:30:15 PM EDT
[#13]
Just checked my RRA and it is spot on. HMMMM A DMPS and RRA are GTG and the kool-aid brands are the ones that are off. Just sayin'
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Posted: 4/24/2012 6:30:48 PM EDT
[#14]
It's fine. I just checked my PSA upper and it looks just like yours. I never would have noticed it if you didn't bring it up.
Edit; I checked all the forged uppers I currently have, the two Cirro's are a little off center, one is more than the other but not much. My one Anchor Harvey is about the same as worst of the Cirro's but all three seem to be a bit thicker than the PSA which makes the thin side look really bad but, as I said before, I never would have noticed it if you didn't point it out. The PSA has a square forge mark, I don't know who makes that one. I am sure someone here does. |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 7:02:31 PM EDT
[#15]
This thread is a dup. I just checked that PSA#BCM thread that I haven't bothered to read unit now and it is 4 pages of this same stuff.
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Posted: 4/24/2012 7:46:50 PM EDT
[#16]
My BCM and S&W uppers look like this but they are both centered on the lower receiver, both have at least 600 flawless rounds through them. I would just check if its centered on the lower before i started to worry. The one in the BCM thread was not centered.
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Posted: 4/24/2012 7:48:33 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: My BCM and S&W uppers look like this but they are both centered on the lower receiver, both have at least 600 flawless rounds through them. I would just check if its centered on the upper before i started to worry. The one in the BCM thread was not centered. I have a stripped BCM in the "awaiting built" bin, and it looks like the first photo in this thread. I'm going to check my Colt uppers tomorrow. I think it's normal. |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 8:01:17 PM EDT
[#18]
heres mine
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Posted: 4/24/2012 8:02:40 PM EDT
[#19]
I just checked uppers from complete rifles to help you out.
Colt LE ... one side 3/32, the other 2/32; difference of .030 Noveske ... one side 2/32. the other 3/64; difference of .015 LMT ... both sides 3/32 Armalite ... both sides 3/32 Difference on your upper is .5 mm, which is appx .020. Nothing to worry about. Now, when you look at Dipper's upper, that's another story, that looks off by a mile. One side is almost 4/32, the other barely over 1/32. |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 8:04:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Forgot to say you should also function check it as well you should be able to tell right away if the bolt carrier is hitting the buffer tube. Both of my rifles have also been really accurate besides working flawlessly.
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Posted: 4/24/2012 8:08:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
I just checked uppers from complete rifles to help you out. Colt LE ... one side 3/32, the other 2/32; difference of .030 Noveske ... one side 2/32. the other 3/64; difference of .015 LMT ... both sides 3/32 Armalite ... both sides 3/32 Difference on your upper is .5 mm, which is appx .020. Nothing to worry about. Now, when you look at Dipper's upper, that's another story, that looks off by a mile. One side is almost 4/32, the other barely over 1/32. Not my upper I just posted the pics for comparison and I noticed the two uppers were off in different directions. 
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Posted: 4/24/2012 8:14:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Quoted: I just checked uppers from complete rifles to help you out. Colt LE ... one side 3/32, the other 2/32; difference of .030 Noveske ... one side 2/32. the other 3/64; difference of .015 LMT ... both sides 3/32 Armalite ... both sides 3/32 Difference on your upper is .5 mm, which is appx .020. Nothing to worry about. Now, when you look at Dipper's upper, that's another story, that looks off by a mile. One side is almost 4/32, the other barely over 1/32. Not my upper I just posted the pics for comparison and I noticed the two uppers were off in different directions. My BCM and S&W are also on different sides, never actually thought to look at that on a rifle before. Then again you really don't nit pick about small defects on a riffle it has never failed you before.  |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 8:31:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Yes!!! I checked my friends PSA upper tonight and it's perfect.Goes to show you every company has issues sometimes,It might take a couple of trips but they'll get it right eventually.
 Karma is a bitch!
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Posted: 4/24/2012 8:46:32 PM EDT
[#24]
Just check my uppers! All three look exactly like yours! Obviously it nothing to worry about. Casue all mine fuction perfectly!
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Posted: 4/24/2012 9:08:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Just check my uppers! All three look exactly like yours! Obviously it nothing to worry about. Casue all mine fuction perfectly! Don't take this wrong,while I like the way my friends rifle turned out I feel the chances of me getting a rifle of quality as his is growing slimmer. |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 9:30:30 PM EDT
[#26]
I just checked my PSA Dissy and it's spot on. Ordered about 7 weeks ago.
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Posted: 4/25/2012 6:38:08 AM EDT
[#27]
I have a friend that builds competition and tactical weapons for law enforcement agencies and on occasion military and private sales. He has a close working relationship with PSA and is close friends with management. He loves PSA but he has brought up to me that their upper receivers have problems. He said that an assembled upper from PSA should have no problem for general use but still, they can be a little off if you are trying to build something. I personally run a PSA upper on my rifle and it has worked extremely well but I know that there are some issues.
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Posted: 4/25/2012 7:00:40 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Yes!!! I checked my friends PSA upper tonight and it's perfect.Goes to show you every company has issues sometimes,It might take a couple of trips but they'll get it right eventually. Karma is a bitch!At hundredths of an inch, it isn't an issue, it's just manufacturing tolerance. As long as it still runs, it doesn't matter. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 7:23:34 AM EDT
[#29]
The real question is it within the spec tolerance, don't know how happy I'd be about that as it appears to be out of spec. It may work just fine, but now you are going to wonder about it each and everytime you take it out. Wait and see what PSA has to say.
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Posted: 4/25/2012 7:28:30 AM EDT
[#30]
I kinda wish people would slap these uppers on a lower and shoot them instead of measuring them first. I'm wondering if this is actually a functional problem or purely an aesthetic one.
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Posted: 4/25/2012 8:01:41 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
I have a friend that ... Please do not continue to post third hand speculation and innuendo as fact. Our uppers are within spec or they are replaced under warranty. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 8:06:28 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a friend that ... Please do not continue to post third hand speculation and innuendo as fact. Our uppers are within spec or they are replaced under warranty. So you obviously read the thread. Does the upper appear to be within spec? |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 8:09:09 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
I kinda wish people would slap these uppers on a lower and shoot them instead of measuring them first. I'm wondering if this is actually a functional problem or purely an aesthetic one. All of our uppers are test fired with anywhere from 3 to 20 rounds before they are shipped. The upper does not leave until it has passed the test fire and function check. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 8:14:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I kinda wish people would slap these uppers on a lower and shoot them instead of measuring them first. I'm wondering if this is actually a functional problem or purely an aesthetic one. All of our uppers are test fired with anywhere from 3 to 20 rounds before they are shipped. The upper does not leave until it has passed the test fire and function check. Again, you have not answered the question. Does the upper shown in the picture look in spec? |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 8:23:24 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
So you obviously read the thread. Does the upper appear to be within spec? Sorry I did not get back to you fast enough. It is impossible to tell from this photo whether or not it is in spec. We are bringing the upper back to measure it. If it is out of spec it will be replaced. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 8:29:16 AM EDT
[#36]
My PSA upper is identical to the OPs upper except that it's on the other side. I have ran about 3500 rounds through mine with ZERO malfunctions. I shoot mostly Tulammo and Monarch steel casings. I also shoot a bunch of handloads with ZERO issues.
P.S. I didn't even know about it until just now when I checked it.
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Posted: 4/25/2012 8:30:12 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So you obviously read the thread. Does the upper appear to be within spec? Sorry I did not get back to you fast enough. It is impossible to tell from this photo whether or not it is in spec. We are bringing the upper back to measure it. If it is out of spec it will be replaced. My apologies, I though that your statement about test firing was in response to me. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 8:45:09 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Quoted: I kinda wish people would slap these uppers on a lower and shoot them instead of measuring them first. I'm wondering if this is actually a functional problem or purely an aesthetic one. All of our uppers are test fired with anywhere from 3 to 20 rounds before they are shipped. The upper does not leave until it has passed the test fire and function check. I figured. I know BCM does the same thing too... Honestly, I think this is people worrying about their upper not looking pretty enough. If it mates up to the lower and functions, keep shooting. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 8:49:15 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
My PSA upper is identical to the OPs upper except that it's on the other side. I have ran about 3500 rounds through mine with ZERO malfunctions. I shoot mostly Tulammo and Monarch steel casings. I also shoot a bunch of handloads with ZERO issues. P.S. I didn't even know about it until just now when I checked it. A small amount of variance is normal. That is why we test fire them to check the function. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 9:09:35 AM EDT
[#40]
Jeez, one more time people, PUT THE UPPERS ON LOWERS and see how they fit!!!!!!!!!!!
The ONLY thing that matters is that the machined slot is centered with the ID of the receiver, that's it!! If the outside of the receiver is not perfectly round.... if their is slightly more material on one side of the receiver or the other, it doesn't matter. Honestly, sometimes I feel sorry for all manufactures and builders. Dealing with people who don't know what their talking about or even looking at must get old pretty darn fast. Having to continually educate one person after another must be extremely frustrating. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 9:12:58 AM EDT
[#41]
I'm sure there plenty of things that could be out of spec and the rifle would still "function" just fine. I'm not sure a function test tells us anything about this (possible) issue.
This looks like the kind of thing that wouldn't be an issue until a malfunction. An out of battery fire for instance. If a surface is too thin, would it hold up to a malfunction? All specs are not about firing the rifle. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 9:15:45 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Jeez, one more time people, PUT THE UPPERS ON LOWERS and see how they fit!!!!!!!!!!! The ONLY thing that matters is that the machined slot is centered with the ID of the receiver, that's it!! If the outside of the receiver is not perfectly round.... if their is slightly more material on one side of the receiver or the other, it doesn't matter. Honestly, sometimes I feel sorry for all manufactures and builders. Dealing with people who don't know what their talking about or even looking at must get old pretty darn fast. Having to continually educate one person after another must be extremely frustrating. THE GUY ASKED A QUESTION BECAUSE OF A THREAD THAT HE SAW |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 9:19:17 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
I'm sure there plenty of things that could be out of spec and the rifle would still "function" just fine. I'm not sure a function test tells us anything about this (possible) issue. This looks like the kind of thing that wouldn't be an issue until a malfunction. An out of battery fire for instance. If a surface is too thin, would it hold up to a malfunction? All specs are not about firing the rifle. The path of least resistance; the magwell has it The back end of the upper isn't going to explode. I'm guessing most of you in hear haven't ever don't any machining before. Specs aren't giving in a "X" number, they are given in a range "x-y". Quit nittpicking every little thing and go out and shoot your rifle instead of going over it with a ruler. PSA - Good on you for trying to make people happy over a non issue. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 9:28:46 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I kinda wish people would slap these uppers on a lower and shoot them instead of measuring them first. I'm wondering if this is actually a functional problem or purely an aesthetic one. All of our uppers are test fired with anywhere from 3 to 20 rounds before they are shipped. The upper does not leave until it has passed the test fire and function check. Again, you have not answered the question. Does the upper shown in the picture look in spec? And YOU ask a question like this!! Really!! You expect someone to tell you if that receiver is in spec from a picture?? 
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Posted: 4/25/2012 9:28:53 AM EDT
[#45]
my concern is where that off-center groove will put the bolt at when it starts to engage the barrel extension
i have several that aren't exact and don't bother me in the least but i do have one that i have some reservations about... 
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Posted: 4/25/2012 9:36:54 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
my concern is where that off-center groove will put the bolt at when it starts to engage the barrel extension i have several that aren't exact and don't bother me in the least but i do have one that i have some reservations about... http://i46.tinypic.com/2e1zsp0.jpg SIGH!! You don't know if the "groove" is off center with the IMPORTANT part of the receiver... the ID.. unless you check it. The OUTSIDE of the receiver doesn't matter one bit. Check to see if the slot is centered with the ID, not the OD. If it is not centered with the ID, there is a potential problem depending on how far it is off.... if it is the OD, there is NO problem. Holding a tape measure up to the receiver tells you NOTHING about the important working part of the receiver. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 9:43:38 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
my concern is where that off-center groove will put the bolt at when it starts to engage the barrel extension i have several that aren't exact and don't bother me in the least but i do have one that i have some reservations about... http://i46.tinypic.com/2e1zsp0.jpg SIGH!! You don't know if the "groove" is off center with the IMPORTANT part of the receiver... the ID.. unless you check it. The OUTSIDE of the receiver doesn't matter one bit. Check to see if the slot is centered with the ID, not the OD. If it is not centered with the ID, there is a potential problem depending on how far it is off.... if it is the OD, there is NO problem. Holding a tape measure up to the receiver tells you NOTHING about the important working part of the receiver. the receiver extension and channel seem to line up fine, i just admittedly don't know enough about the machining of the upper receiver to know if that equates to the bolt lining up regularly with the barrel extension SIGH! |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 9:45:55 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
my concern is where that off-center groove will put the bolt at when it starts to engage the barrel extension i have several that aren't exact and don't bother me in the least but i do have one that i have some reservations about... If that is one of our receivers, please IM us or contact customer service. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 9:51:18 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
my concern is where that off-center groove will put the bolt at when it starts to engage the barrel extension i have several that aren't exact and don't bother me in the least but i do have one that i have some reservations about... http://i46.tinypic.com/2e1zsp0.jpg SIGH!! You don't know if the "groove" is off center with the IMPORTANT part of the receiver... the ID.. unless you check it. The OUTSIDE of the receiver doesn't matter one bit. Check to see if the slot is centered with the ID, not the OD. If it is not centered with the ID, there is a potential problem depending on how far it is off.... if it is the OD, there is NO problem. Holding a tape measure up to the receiver tells you NOTHING about the important working part of the receiver. the receiver extension and channel seem to line up fine, i just admittedly don't know enough about the machining of the upper receiver to know if that equates to the bolt lining up regularly with the barrel extension SIGH! The outside does matter when it comes to mounting your rear sight. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 9:55:15 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
The outside does matter when it comes to mounting your rear sight. true enough, don't even have a handle for this upper so that hadn't even crossed my mind |
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