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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:05:59 AM EDT
went shooting with some buddies on saturday when my buddy's rifle turned into a grenade. it's a PSA lower with PSA lower build kit and their 16" stainless upper. was firing reloads acquired from his brother-in-law (there were 6 left of 500). had several rounds in a row with primer strikes that didn't set off the round. he was (luckily) firing from the hip while testing out the ammo. magazine catch and bolt catch both shot off into his left arm, but other than that no damage done. bolt carrier flowered open where the bolt is inserted, magazine shot out of the well at a billion miles per hour, half of the extractor sheared off, upper receiver blew out (for lack of a better term) and was torn apart at the rear lug. had to hammer back the BCG to make sure that nothing would go off; then took a cleaning rod and popped out the case (and the bullet), which is pictured below. barrel/extension seem to be fine, except for what appear to be bullet shavings/fragments at the muzzle. still haven't been able to completely remove the BCG from the upper.
ammo that's too hot? obstruction in barrel? what causes this? i took pics of as many things as i felt were necessary. i can take additional pics. sucks to see a dead upper but just happy nobody got hurt. 
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:10:06 AM EDT
[#1]
nvrmnd.
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:11:21 AM EDT
[#2]
My guess would be that reloaded ammo.
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:13:59 AM EDT
[#3]
That looks like a reload that was way over pressure.
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:14:44 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
That looks like a reload that was way over pressure. That would be my guess too..... |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:17:19 AM EDT
[#5]
I would say the problem lies with the rocket scientist who reloaded the ammo,over pressure round.Rifles a complete loss but everyones ok thats the important thing...even thouigh the rifles trashed it contained the disaster.
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:18:07 AM EDT
[#6]
Round doesn't appear to have been seated fully into the chamber when the primer was fired. I've got a couple questions about that. The primer was struck by the firing pin so the KB didn't happen from a improperly seated primer that was hit by the BCG when the round was being pushed into the chamber. So, how did this happen? The firing pin shouldn't even be able to contact the primer unless the bolt is locked into battery.
Did it have any trouble firing, or did it chamber and fire like a normal round, but explode in the process? |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:18:18 AM EDT
[#7]
Looks like your friend's brother-in-law was mad at him. j/k
I'd have to agree with the posts above. Looks like this was caused by reloads. Sorry for his loss and I hope he wasn't too badly injured. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:18:54 AM EDT
[#8]
Second on the reloaded ammo. Freak accidents happen, it is a machine and machines are prone to flaws like anything else; no matter how well built.
But I'd wager it was probably the reloaded ammo. Did you pull the bullets on the reloaded ammo remaining and check them? I am not a reloading expert, but most of these failures tend to be user error when reloading ammo. Sounds stupid, but did you CHECK the barrel after the "dead" rounds failed to fire? Perhaps a bullet went partially down the barrel? |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:19:58 AM EDT
[#9]
Whatever you do, do not shoot any more reloads from your buddies brother-in-law.
He needs a re-education on reloading. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:20:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Im going to go with OOB, since he had several "no-go-bangs" before this then a KaBoom.
Someone correct me if im nuts. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:20:50 AM EDT
[#11]
This is EXACTLY why I dont shoot reloaded ammo.
Had a nice S&W .38spcl explode in my hand... It was the reloaders pistol. The shrapnel almost caught one of my sons in the face. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:22:51 AM EDT
[#12]
may have been a squib from one of the dead rounds, maybe a double load in the reload. Makes me think twice about the reloading kit i have on my wishlist.
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:25:37 AM EDT
[#13]
Overcharged round IMHO.
Your buddies brother-in-law owes your buddy a new AR.......but your buddy is just as much at fault for shooting someone else's reloads. Glad he wasn't hurt! |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:25:42 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
went shooting with some buddies on saturday when my buddy's rifle turned into a grenade. it's a PSA lower with PSA lower build kit and their 16" stainless upper. was firing reloads acquired from his brother-in-law (there were 6 left of 500). had several rounds in a row with primer strikes that didn't set off the round. he was (luckily) firing from the hip while testing out the ammo. magazine catch and bolt catch both shot off into his left arm, but other than that no damage done. bolt carrier flowered open where the bolt is inserted, magazine shot out of the well at a billion miles per hour, half of the extractor sheared off, upper receiver blew out (for lack of a better term) and was torn apart at the rear lug. had to hammer back the BCG to make sure that nothing would go off; then took a cleaning rod and popped out the case (and the bullet), which is pictured below. barrel/extension seem to be fine, except for what appear to be bullet shavings/fragments at the muzzle. still haven't been able to completely remove the BCG from the upper. ammo that's too hot? obstruction in barrel? what causes this? i took pics of as many things as i felt were necessary. i can take additional pics. sucks to see a dead upper but just happy nobody got hurt. I don't think I'd ever shoot someone else's reloads. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:35:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: QFT and to be even more clear, I would never shoot anyone else's reloads. Period. Quoted: I don't think I'd ever shoot someone else's reloads. went shooting with some buddies on saturday when my buddy's rifle turned into a grenade. it's a PSA lower with PSA lower build kit and their 16" stainless upper. was firing reloads acquired from his brother-in-law (there were 6 left of 500). had several rounds in a row with primer strikes that didn't set off the round. he was (luckily) firing from the hip while testing out the ammo. magazine catch and bolt catch both shot off into his left arm, but other than that no damage done. bolt carrier flowered open where the bolt is inserted, magazine shot out of the well at a billion miles per hour, half of the extractor sheared off, upper receiver blew out (for lack of a better term) and was torn apart at the rear lug. had to hammer back the BCG to make sure that nothing would go off; then took a cleaning rod and popped out the case (and the bullet), which is pictured below. barrel/extension seem to be fine, except for what appear to be bullet shavings/fragments at the muzzle. still haven't been able to completely remove the BCG from the upper. ammo that's too hot? obstruction in barrel? what causes this? i took pics of as many things as i felt were necessary. i can take additional pics. sucks to see a dead upper but just happy nobody got hurt. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:38:12 AM EDT
[#16]
thanks for all of the feedback. i too think that it was just WAY over pressure. after it kaboom'd, my buddy walked over and said "if you want, you can say 'i told you so,' because you told me 1,000 times to not shoot his reloads."
Quoted:
Round doesn't appear to have been seated fully into the chamber when the primer was fired. I've got a couple questions about that. The primer was struck by the firing pin so the KB didn't happen from a improperly seated primer that was hit by the BCG when the round was being pushed into the chamber. So, how did this happen? The firing pin shouldn't even be able to contact the primer unless the bolt is locked into battery. Did it have any trouble firing, or did it chamber and fire like a normal round, but explode in the process? i'm not sure how it happened. there were several rounds before that seated just fine, but when he pulled the trigger you'd hear the hammer drop but nothing would happen. he'd eject the round, a new one would seat, but none of them went off. then this happened. i believe that the bolt was locked into battery; it appeared to be when we were hammering out the BCG. not sure if this answered your question(s). |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:41:06 AM EDT
[#17]
What is that bullet in the pic from? Was that recovered from the blown up gun? If so then obstructed barrel looks like the winner. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:41:10 AM EDT
[#18]
* adds digital scale back to reloading wishlist.
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:42:58 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/exploder1/20120326_103515.jpg What is that bullet in the pic from? Was that recovered from the blown up gun? If so then obstructed barrel looks like the winner. it popped out along with the case when we used a cleaning rod from muzzle to chamber. ETA: is that related at all to what look like bullet shavings at the muzzle? |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:45:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Another black eye for reloads....
I use only my own. Now this guy will find out what kind of a guy his brother-in-law is. I hope the BIL steps up and makes it right... |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:47:32 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/exploder1/20120326_103515.jpg What is that bullet in the pic from? Was that recovered from the blown up gun? If so then obstructed barrel looks like the winner. Agreed. I don't usually find a bullet in the bore when I clean my rifle. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:54:32 AM EDT
[#22]
After several failures to fire, your buddy didn't check and clear malfunctions/squib or question the ammo? He just kept firing?
Shocking. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:55:58 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Houston, we have a problem.went shooting with some buddies on saturday when my buddy's rifle turned into a grenade. it's a PSA lower with PSA lower build kit and their 16" stainless upper. was firing reloads acquired from his brother-in-law (there were 6 left of 500). |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:56:59 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/exploder1/20120326_103515.jpg What is that bullet in the pic from? Was that recovered from the blown up gun? If so then obstructed barrel looks like the winner. it popped out along with the case when we used a cleaning rod from muzzle to chamber. ETA: is that related at all to what look like bullet shavings at the muzzle? From your description of those rounds that failed to ignite, it's possible that one was a squib and its bullet lodged in the bore. Then the next normal round is a grenade. Did you see that all the FTF rounds still had their bullets ? Very important to observe this and check the barrel when this happens. If they did, then it's possible that it was an underloaded round. Either way, I would, without hesitation, suspect those reloads. Not a reload hater ( I reload), but that's what it appears to be. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:00:15 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: * adds digital scale back to reloading wishlist. AND a chronograph. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:01:29 AM EDT
[#26]
I know its completely off topic.......but how you like that primary arms red dot?
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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:03:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/exploder1/20120326_103515.jpg What is that bullet in the pic from? Was that recovered from the blown up gun? If so then obstructed barrel looks like the winner. it popped out along with the case when we used a cleaning rod from muzzle to chamber. ETA: is that related at all to what look like bullet shavings at the muzzle? Can you do a real close up of the projectile? I seriously think there was a 55gr in the brass case, then another seated on top 
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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:07:25 AM EDT
[#28]
If you found a bullet in the bore/cartridge after firing that round, I would think that the barrel had to be obstructed. I might also suspect an out of battery condition, perhaps from a high primer. I would want to look at the rounds that didn't fire and the cases from rounds that did.
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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:12:17 AM EDT
[#29]
I stopped reading when I saw RELOADS
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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:14:24 AM EDT
[#30]
It was probably that plastic magpul BUIS....
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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:19:49 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
reloads acquired from his brother-in-law No need to guess; crap reloads caused it.
Sorry man. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:21:40 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/exploder1/20120326_103515.jpg What is that bullet in the pic from? Was that recovered from the blown up gun? If so then obstructed barrel looks like the winner. it popped out along with the case when we used a cleaning rod from muzzle to chamber. ETA: is that related at all to what look like bullet shavings at the muzzle? Can you do a real close up of the projectile? I seriously think there was a 55gr in the brass case, then another seated on top I think the ring on the bullet is from the cleaning rod they used to push it out but i could be wrong. It's hard to see in the pic but it looks like there are pock marks on the case from unburnt powder in the chamber. Maybe the reloader didn't crimp the rounds and didn't have sufficient neck tension causing one of the dud rounds to come apart, when it was chambered. The next round got loaded on top, bullet pushed back into case (that's why the bullet in the pic looks like it was seated way too deep) and kaboom. Just a wild guess but I can't see anyway the bullet wouldn't have made it out of the barrel if there wasn't something blocking it. I don't think it fired OOB because it looks like the fireing pin made a good solid hit on the primer. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:24:11 AM EDT
[#33]
It wasn't an obstruction, the reason the bullet was retreived was because the charge blew out the rear of the case. Path of least resistance. How many times were these cases full length resized?
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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:32:05 AM EDT
[#34]
The bullet in the pic looks like it has rifling marks on it from where it went partially down the barrel and was stuck. The next rounds bullet disentegrated and the pressure blew the back of the case off and then blew up the gun.
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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:37:32 AM EDT
[#35]
Looks like part of the case from a prior round causing the next round bullet to jam inside the barrel ??
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/exploder1/20120326_105709.jpg |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:48:33 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
It wasn't an obstruction, the reason the bullet was retreived was because the charge blew out the rear of the case. Path of least resistance. How many times were these cases full length resized? I don't see how blowing out the case and the gun apart is the path of least resistance vs putting a bullet down an un obstructed barrel. I could be wrong but when ive seen posts about case head seperation the bullet is not still in the barrel. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:52:58 AM EDT
[#37]
Looking at the pic of the case again, I'm suspecting a barrel obstruction from a prior FTF. Maybe a squib load. It sure looks like the case was pushed back so hard that the extractor caught the side of the case. There was some serious pressure in that barrel and chamber.
Ouch. Sorry man. Too bad about the gun. Glad everyone is all right. It sure seems that nearly all the AR kaboom's result from poor quality reloads. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 11:46:14 AM EDT
[#38]
threads like this keep me from getting a polymer lower
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Posted: 3/26/2012 12:24:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
It wasn't an obstruction, the reason the bullet was retreived was because the charge blew out the rear of the case. Path of least resistance. How many times were these cases full length resized? I don't see how blowing out the case and the gun apart is the path of least resistance vs putting a bullet down an un obstructed barrel. I could be wrong but when ive seen posts about case head seperation the bullet is not still in the barrel. that's why i asked how many time was it re-sized, that lower area starts to get weak (as well as the rest of it), that in combination with a crimped bullet... It still takes a lot of force to to push that bullet through rifling. In this case it looks like it took less pressure to rupture the case. that picture of the case doesn't look like a "regular" case head separation. I feel cases with incipient head separation that are still loaded and not pitched out would result in this type of failure being a possibility vs just ripping the head off. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 12:37:12 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
It wasn't an obstruction, the reason the bullet was retreived was because the charge blew out the rear of the case. Path of least resistance. How many times were these cases full length resized? Ding Ding Ding. Clearly this guy doesn't like your buddy being married to his sister because it's obvious he's trying to kill him. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the reason these reloads were "given" away is that the loader is probably thinking they've been loaded one time too many. Looks like a weak case rupture. Too many people out there think that just because you can load a 45ACP case 50 times that you can do the same with rifle brass. Where was the bullet that was removed? Near the breech? Muzzle? Those little brass shavings at the muzzle end make me think that the previous case came apart, left part of the neck in the barrel, and when the next round was fired, kaboom. Did you collect your fired brass? Find a case that came apart? I've seen it in shotgun casings that have been loaded 20 times. Instead of uncrimping, the whole end separates and goes down the bore - obviously not a real problem in a shotgun... Find out if the BIL has taken out any new insurance policies.... |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 12:42:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Before the kaboom round did you guys have mortor the prior rounds with light primer strikes to get them to eject? If so, my bet is cases not being trimmed properly so the neck was forced into the rifling, then firing the rounds could have left brass in the throat until some rounds wouldn't seat all the way, causing what appeared to be light primer strikes because the bolt wasn't fully locked up. Then this last round managed to feed all the way, but the brass in the throat from the previous firing captured the last round's bullet causing it to act as a barrel obstruction, then the pressure blew out the case head being the path of least resistance.
That would explain the brass rings visible chamber side, and the recovered bullet. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 1:00:14 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Before the kaboom round did you guys have mortor the prior rounds with light primer strikes to get them to eject? If so, my bet is cases not being trimmed properly so the neck was forced into the rifling, then firing the rounds could have left brass in the throat until some rounds wouldn't seat all the way, causing what appeared to be light primer strikes because the bolt wasn't fully locked up. Then this last round managed to feed all the way, but the brass in the throat from the previous firing captured the last round's bullet causing it to act as a barrel obstruction, then the pressure blew out the case head being the path of least resistance. That would explain the brass rings visible chamber side, and the recovered bullet. I like your line of thinking here... |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 1:06:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Just curious any details on how he was reloading?
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Posted: 3/26/2012 1:09:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
My guess would be that reloaded ammo. yup |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 1:19:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
My guess would be that reloaded ammo. yup possible issues: (or combo of) -brass used too many times -over pressured reload -primer not seated proper regardless dont trust whoever reloaded it anymore |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 1:54:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
This is EXACTLY why I dont shoot reloaded ammo. Had a nice S&W .38spcl explode in my hand... It was the reloaders pistol. The shrapnel almost caught one of my sons in the face. people have used reloaded ammo for alot longer than anyone around here have been alive! people probably will after were all dead and gone too. There are guidelines to follow in reloading. Some think it's to complex it's simple! though it does use up a persons time. I have a spare room just to load in. I don't like distractions when loading, preppin brass ect. Then again it's just me and the wife here so it makes it simple.
I simply DO NOT load for ANYONE or let anyone shoot my handloads unless I'm right there with them! It might seem pricky to some but it's worked for me all these years 
Besides most kabooms I've seen are FACTORY ammo or surpluss. At least I know who loaded mine! do you? |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 2:19:49 PM EDT
[#47]
It looks like part of a case was still in the chamber and the bolt wouldn't lock up all the way. I had my .22 conversion break off at the neck area of the chamber adapter. When I tried to chamber a empty but sized case it stopped just short of the BCG locking up. Not sure if it would fire like this but that's just my opinion.
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Posted: 3/26/2012 2:20:11 PM EDT
[#48]
I've seen the aftermath of an under-charged round in a bolt gun, very similar result with the brass except that in the bolt gun the brass actually flowed. Undercharged rifle rounds act much differently than undercharged pistol rounds. The bullet might pop out and stick in the rifling , this causes a pressure seal and the gas takes the easiest route, usually the rear of the case near the head or where case support is minimal. The chamfering around the chamber probably got filled with the flowing brass and caused that weird-looking case rupture.
The unscathed projo tells me that it probably was not a squib, which could cause an overpressure problem. Other KB'ed ARs that fired out of battery or blew up because of an overcharge split the left side out of the upper usually don't they? All of this leads me to conclude it was an undercharged case. |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 2:31:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
* adds digital scale back to reloading wishlist. AND a chronograph. why would a reloader need either? I do have both, neither is needed to produce safe quality accurate handloads. that was a case head failure. like 95% of the kabooms you'll see. we can all speculate on the failure |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 2:35:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Hot round.
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