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Posted: 2/25/2012 11:57:41 PM EDT
A few years ago I bought a 14.5" LMT from a law enforcement friend of mine and just wanted to share a short review of my experiences with it so far.
First off let me say that I only bought this rifle because I got a killer deal on it. I had several ARs already and it was nothing special to me. The previous owner had shot ~3500-4000 rounds through it, 2500 of which he shot suppressed with a M4-1000. So I knew the gun was warmed up before I bought it. I decided to set it up identical to my issued rifle so that I could have something to train with in my off time that would become second nature operating when I was at my unit in the military. I wanted to see how far the rifle would go without cleaning it and figured since I got it so cheap I didn't care anyway so I painted it and went shooting.

(Specs: 14.5" LMT complete upper w/LMT BUIS, KAC rail, Surefire Scout M600, LaRue FUG, TROY Pro Grade Sling mount, and Magpul MOE.)



The rifle was the same as any AR that I have fired and I put close to 1100 rounds through it the first weekend. No cleaning, no problems...
I tried to put between 500-1000 rounds through it each month but sometimes couldn't do that because I was out of state or country. Long story short as of now, there is close to 9,500 rounds through this gun without cleaning and after taking it out again today and putting another 500 rounds through it, I have decided that my test is done. (Keep in mind the rifle was shot almost 4000 rounds and 2500 suppressed before I got to it)

I live in the desert of Nevada and have a good environment with dusty, sandy, dry conditions similar to what you would see over seas in the middle east or anywhere dry and hotter than hell.
When I train I like to get down and dirty, so it was fun knowing that I would get to see first hand how the rifle would truly stand up to abusive conditions and not just something I had read from some guy in a gun magazine who shot 50 rounds of Federal through an AR and says it's the greatest thing in the world.

Me



I did not clean this gun one time since I bought it and when I received it, the gun was dirty and had not been cleaned in some time. This morning before shooting I popped open the upper to lube up the BCG (as I do every time I shoot) and didn't realize how bad it was. I shoot most of my ARs for several thousand rounds before cleaning them and as I lubed up the BCG my buddy looked over and said, "Good god man, that thing is f***ing dirty"... His AR had not been clean in several thousand rounds as well so I knew it was going to be good. I really stopped and looked at it and we decided it was worth taking pictures. Here is one of the upper... It was much worse in real life than it looks in the pictures.



The following are some of the close ups I took of the parts that matter. I would like to stress that I never ever had a single weapon related malfunction with this rifle. It has more than exceeded my expectations and is fully functional of anything that I would ever need it for. I know how hard I ran this rifle and I made it a point to have it in the dirt as much as possible whenever I would go out shooting. I have shot this rifle in the rain, snow, mud, and desert sand with every type of ammo you could imagine (steel cased and brass) and I would trust my life to this gun without hesitation. Enjoy the pics. :)














Anyway, that’s pretty much it. 10,000 rounds without cleaning is nothing special from a quality milspec gun, but I am really happy with the gun and I'm sure that it could take another 10k rounds without cleaning. I do T&E for manufacturers and companies from time to time when I'm not busy, but it was nice to just do something for myself and have fun with it. The pictures do not do a justice to the absolute filthiness on the inside of the rifle. I have no affiliation with LMT but I now respect their product even more than I previously did. If you are looking for a reliable AR platform, I would recommend an LMT to anyone without hesitation and with total confidence. Take care and stay safe guys.

Link Posted: 2/26/2012 12:42:57 AM EDT
1st...

and nice write up. I have a few of their offerings...

While the "machining"-lower receiver mainly, tool marks, blemishes, etc-(I could care less how pretty it looks as long as it works...none of my guns are safe queens) is not as good as some other high end manufacturers, I think they more than make up for it in the quality of the parts. Their customer service is top notch as well...
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 12:45:32 AM EDT
LMT manufactuers a rock solid working gun. I have had very similar experience with mine, little cleaning and a lot of reliability.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 12:50:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2012 12:50:48 AM EDT by hammet]
Maybe its me, and I'm no expert, but I'd feel pretty uncomfortable with someone breaking down any rifle near me with ammo still in the mag.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 12:51:10 AM EDT
If your rifle had a number, we could call it "Filthy #"...and a new legend could be born.

Nice write up.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 12:53:39 AM EDT
Nice camo job, too...what was your technique if you don't mind my asking?
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 12:58:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Nice camo job, too...what was your technique if you don't mind my asking?


I agree as well. Normally not a fan of such, but his looks pretty damn good.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 1:02:08 AM EDT
Thanks for the post, OP.

Link Posted: 2/26/2012 1:05:24 AM EDT
I posted this in our local forum as well:

I recommend LMT rifles to all my friends as well to the point that some people get annoyed. I own both a DI and a piston MRP. The DI has roughly over 7,000 rds through her mostly suppressed. The MRP has about 2-3K through her mostly suppessed as well. I trust them with my life. I wouldn't push a product I don't trust. One of my friends picked up his DI MRP yesterday because of my recommnedation and reviews like this.

Thanks for the review. Here's a couple of pics of my LMTs.



Link Posted: 2/26/2012 2:14:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 2:50:16 AM EDT
I love LMT stuff, right now my go to gun is a LMT based MK18 but with a Noveske barrel.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 3:01:55 AM EDT
Nice write up! That is a sweet looking rifle.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 3:27:18 AM EDT
Nice write up. LMT does make some quality stuff.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 3:33:15 AM EDT
Gotta love an LMT! Nice rig.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 3:37:28 AM EDT
Nice!!

I like the camo job!

My Defender 2000 runs great . Zero problems. bought it sometime in 2005 thanks to AR3.

I also have a half breed, a Bushmaster/VLTOR Lower and a LMT M4 upper that I use as a spare.
And it hasnt had any problems.

And I do trust my carbines.

I do think if you keep the Carrier & Bolt wet it would run for a very long time.

Link Posted: 2/26/2012 3:43:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2012 3:43:50 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 5:19:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
I'm not convinced that not cleaning an AR and having it runs proves anything. Someone here ran 15,000 (i think)rounds of wolf thru a model one upper

I have a lmt upper I bought around 2004. Great upper.

I agree with that, both points.

The first thing that I do after I get home from shooting is clean everything to like new clean.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 5:39:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2012 5:40:20 AM EDT by hellbound]
Originally Posted By hammet:
Maybe its me, and I'm no expert, but I'd feel pretty uncomfortable with someone breaking down any rifle near me with ammo still in the mag.


It's just you.

I hate safety nazi goofballs. I take pictures of my guns with loaded mags all the time. It adds contrast to an all black picture.

In the OP's photos it's a good point of reference - clean smooth brass and anodized aluminum in the magazine vs filthy upper/lower.

You can clearly see that the chamber is empty.

ETA: I just noticed you're from NY... Guilty as charged. Carolyn McCarthy has trained you well.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 5:45:19 AM EDT
In my experience, LMTs are unusually accurate.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 5:46:11 AM EDT
Excellent write up and weapon.....now thats what I call a "KGR" or Known Good Rifle....well done sir.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 6:17:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2012 6:18:31 AM EDT by cmcflex]
Originally Posted By Aimless:
I'm not convinced that not cleaning an AR and having it runs proves anything. Someone here ran 15,000 (i think)rounds of wolf thru a model one upper

I have a lmt upper I bought around 2004. Great upper.


I am convinced that nothing we see on this forum proves anything per se. But it is another data point offering some suggestive evidence. I for one take it for what it is but take it seriously.



Originally Posted By hellbound:
ETA: I just noticed you're from NY... Guilty as charged. Carolyn McCarthy has trained you well.


Link Posted: 2/26/2012 6:43:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2012 6:49:20 AM EDT by IFBBjuicemonkey]
Originally Posted By hammet:
Maybe its me, and I'm no expert, but I'd feel pretty uncomfortable with someone breaking down any rifle near me with ammo still in the mag.


It is 99% more likely that the OP simply put a loaded mag into the lower after he popped the take down pins and took 'er apart, just for the sake of the picture, and with no BCG in the rifle, there is no way of it going off anyway. The crap people come up with to complain and comment about...

When I think LMT I think of a workhorse, no nonsense AR. Great pics OP, love to see AR's that see some serious use.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 7:17:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By brasidas:
In my experience, LMTs are unusually accurate.



I dont know if this is true but I recall hearing that LMT was having batches of barrels made by Rock Creek with a 5R button. This was back when I bought mine around 2005 or so. If someone knows the truth on this I'd love to hear it.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 7:19:31 AM EDT
i love that camo job. krylon?
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 7:22:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By brasidas:
In my experience, LMTs are unusually accurate.


I haven't found them to be quite as accurate as my Noveske, but very accurate and reliable nonetheless. I have 4 LMT's (3 MRP's and MWS) and I have 2 LMT factory 10.5's paid for at my class 3 waiting on paperwork. So yes, I think you could say that I trust LMT.

10k is a little longer than I let mine go, but I have no doubt that they would run, and run well in adverse environments. I am planning a similar "project" for my piston MRP. I was thinking 20-25k rounds with just proper lube.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 7:27:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DvlDog:
Originally Posted By brasidas:
In my experience, LMTs are unusually accurate.



I dont know if this is true but I recall hearing that LMT was having batches of barrels made by Rock Creek with a 5R button. This was back when I bought mine around 2005 or so. If someone knows the truth on this I'd love to hear it.


Ive got a Email from LMT that states they use 4140 for all gov contracts
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 7:28:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By d90king:
Originally Posted By brasidas:
In my experience, LMTs are unusually accurate.


I haven't found them to be quite as accurate as my Noveske, but very accurate and reliable nonetheless. I have 4 LMT's (3 MRP's and MWS) and I have 2 LMT factory 10.5's paid for at my class 3 waiting on paperwork. So yes, I think you could say that I trust LMT.

10k is a little longer than I let mine go, but I have no doubt that they would run, and run well in adverse environments. I am planning a similar "project" for my piston MRP. I was thinking 20-25k rounds with just proper lube.


Noveske SS barrels?
Or the N4 chrome lined barrel ?
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 9:58:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Nice camo job, too...what was your technique if you don't mind my asking?

Thanks, I do a base coat of tan. Then tape it off with big lines and go over it with brown. Then I go back over it again with the straw/pine needle thin stripes accordingly in random spots... There are like 4 layers of paint on that bad boy. I have been getting a ton of people asking about that and I will probably just do a write up on that as well and post it up. I'm getting ready to paint my SCAR this week so it should work out fine. I don't paint my guns to look pretty, but I try to do something random and different each time to see how it turns out.


Originally Posted By Aimless:
I'm not convinced that not cleaning an AR and having it runs proves anything. Someone here ran 15,000 (i think)rounds of wolf thru a model one upper

I have a lmt upper I bought around 2004. Great upper.

I wasn't trying to prove anything, I agree with you. I am simply showing that a quality milspec rifle will perform without having to clean it regularly. It is a documentary, not a commercial.
I know colleagues of mine who have upwards of 50,000 rounds through their ARs and never do more than lube the BCG and brush it off with a tooth brush from time to time... But this is a review on my experience with my rifle. Most people don't have the time or desire to do this with their ARs so I hope it can help some people as a reference point, if nothing else some cool pictures.


Originally Posted By hellbound:
Originally Posted By hammet:
Maybe its me, and I'm no expert, but I'd feel pretty uncomfortable with someone breaking down any rifle near me with ammo still in the mag.


It's just you.

I hate safety nazi goofballs. I take pictures of my guns with loaded mags all the time. It adds contrast to an all black picture.

In the OP's photos it's a good point of reference - clean smooth brass and anodized aluminum in the magazine vs filthy upper/lower.

You can clearly see that the chamber is empty.

ETA: I just noticed you're from NY... Guilty as charged. Carolyn McCarthy has trained you well.


My thoughts exactly


Link Posted: 2/26/2012 10:05:24 AM EDT
Thanks for the write-up... that is one fine looking weapon, love the paint job

Link Posted: 2/26/2012 10:06:20 AM EDT
Nice lookin stick! Is that a YHM flash hider?
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 10:09:02 AM EDT
N4 CL My 14.5 is silly accurate.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 11:12:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 11:33:33 AM EDT
Yep, LMT is good stuff.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 12:41:35 PM EDT
That's a nice looking M4....cool paint job
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 1:04:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hammet:
Maybe its me, and I'm no expert, but I'd feel pretty uncomfortable with someone breaking down any rifle near me with ammo still in the mag.


its just you

Link Posted: 2/26/2012 1:25:48 PM EDT
Even though it's not mil-spec, a very nice rifle and paint.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 3:10:40 PM EDT
On the cleaning forum there is a topic when to change the buffer spring on his LMT ? he has 2500-3000rds fired

His coil is 10inches


Since my LMT Defender has a little over 3000rds I puilled my coil spring .
My buffer spring is 10inches

Both need to be replaced.


Is that normal ?
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 3:17:23 PM EDT
I enjoy seeing write-ups and pictures of rifles that actually get used. Nice job!
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 3:23:48 PM EDT
Wow! I think you replicated "dirty" working conditions very well lol. I love my LMT. From my own experience it is very accurate and would highly recommend it. Camo job looks nice, like the pattern.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 4:01:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FMJ:
On the cleaning forum there is a topic when to change the buffer spring on his LMT ? he has 2500-3000rds fired

His coil is 10inches


Since my LMT Defender has a little over 3000rds I puilled my coil spring .
My buffer spring is 10inches

Both need to be replaced.


Is that normal ?

Hi Rich,

Per the Army Tech/ Maintenance manual TM9-1005-319-23,

2-9. TROUBLESHOOTING PROCEDURES,

3. FAILURE TO CHAMBER Step 1, page 2-22 Change 3,

4. FAILURE TO LOCK, page 2-24 Change 3,

Step 5 CARBINE ONLY:

10 1/16 Inches (25.56 cm) minimum to 11 1/4 inches (28.58 cm) maximum


http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/TM9-1005-319-23.pdf


HTH

I'll have to check mine on my LMT when I have time or before I go shooting, but I only have a couple of thousand rounds on mine, hoping mine is still within the acceptable length.


Link Posted: 2/26/2012 5:24:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Alpha-Romeo3:
Originally Posted By FMJ:
On the cleaning forum there is a topic when to change the buffer spring on his LMT ? he has 2500-3000rds fired

His coil is 10inches


Since my LMT Defender has a little over 3000rds I puilled my coil spring .
My buffer spring is 10inches

Both need to be replaced.


Is that normal ?

Hi Rich,

Per the Army Tech/ Maintenance manual TM9-1005-319-23,

2-9. TROUBLESHOOTING PROCEDURES,

3. FAILURE TO CHAMBER Step 1, page 2-22 Change 3,

4. FAILURE TO LOCK, page 2-24 Change 3,

Step 5 CARBINE ONLY:

10 1/16 Inches (25.56 cm) minimum to 11 1/4 inches (28.58 cm) maximum


http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/TM9-1005-319-23.pdf


HTH

I'll have to check mine on my LMT when I have time or before I go shooting, but I only have a couple of thousand rounds on mine, hoping mine is still within the acceptable length.




Thanks AR3 I be on the lookout or you can IM me
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 5:38:36 PM EDT
Thank you for posting this. Always interesting to read. Nice paint too, I've always toyed with the idea, but afraid I'd regret it when done.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 6:19:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
Originally Posted By brasidas:
In my experience, LMTs are unusually accurate.



I dont know if this is true but I recall hearing that LMT was having batches of barrels made by Rock Creek with a 5R button. This was back when I bought mine around 2005 or so. If someone knows the truth on this I'd love to hear it.

I remember hearing that also.


is this just in relation to the Defender? I only ask cause i know that they used the 5R barrel for the MRP. 18" and 16" IIRC.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 6:20:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2012 6:20:50 PM EDT by jBoy723]
Sorry, Double Tap..
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 8:40:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
Originally Posted By brasidas:
In my experience, LMTs are unusually accurate.



I dont know if this is true but I recall hearing that LMT was having batches of barrels made by Rock Creek with a 5R button. This was back when I bought mine around 2005 or so. If someone knows the truth on this I'd love to hear it.

I remember hearing that also.


MRP barrels are rock creek, or so im told


im happy with my MRP's accuracy either way.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 8:42:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2012 8:48:53 PM EDT by InfiniteGrim]
Are you including the 4500 rounds your friend put through it in your rounds fired without cleaning? Did your friend say he never cleaned it?



I dont see this in your picture and I'm just wondering... Did you notice a path where the bolt was scratching all the dirt off the inside of the receiver? I'm just finding it odd that mine did and yours didn't?








Where are your post cleaning pictures?





BTW I LOVE the paintjob
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 8:48:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2012 12:21:28 AM EDT by js308]
Originally Posted By hammet:
Maybe its me, and I'm no expert, but I'd feel pretty uncomfortable with someone breaking down any rifle near me with ammo still in the mag.


I can see you don't handle AR's very often.
Link Posted: 2/26/2012 9:29:01 PM EDT
Looks like my defender 2000. I have about 6-7K rounds through mine mostly suppressed and all I've ever done to mine is lube it. Never a single failure, I swear by it.

On a side note my 6920 can't get to the 1000 round mark shooting suppressed without having hiccups so I stopped shooting it suppressed and it has since been 100% reliable.
Link Posted: 2/27/2012 5:18:09 AM EDT
Random thoughts....

Considering your are running what appears to be a commercial spec stock I'm guessing the lower is not LMT? Might be worth mentioning the make the of the lower (particually LPK) if known because 10K rounds without cleaning is not just a function of the upper.

Tests like this have been successfully done before with other brands and IMO, just about any quality brand of DI AR is capably of this type of performance. On the other hand, shit happens some times. Look at the other current thread on this forum about a guy using a brand new LMT bolt and had the ejector break on the first round. So does your test prove that LMT's are the best ever or that everybody should expect the same performance if they buy an LMT or is the other guy's experience proves that you were just lucky and that LMT's are actually crappy rifles with no QC? Obviously the truth is somewhere in between as usual

IMO, nobody with an AR (LMT or otherwise) should expect to go 10K rounds on an AR with no cleaning or maintenance. Matter of fact I got into an argument with a guy who showed up to one of our HTF meetups complaining about AR's because he tried a very similar test (Complete LMT rifle, 10K rounds, all steel case Russian ammo, non-suppressed, no cleaning, no maintenance) and started having problems at the 10K range. In his opinion that made AR's inferior to AK's which in his experience wouldn't have had any problem doing a similar test. I told him the same thing I will say here which is, His test proved almost nothing and that there is no good reason to run any rifle that long without proper cleaning and maintenance. Is it cool to run tests like this from time to time just to see what will happen? Well I guess that's up to the individual but in the end, you haven't really accomplished anything.

OP stated that now, after 10K rounds he trusts that rifle without question. To each their own but me personally, I would trust his rifle less then one with only 2-3k of trouble free rounds through it. Why? because the AR has some parts that are known to wear out and fail without notice and some of those can happen with a relatively low round counts. The buffer spring is one part that comes to mind. My own experience with them seems to be validated by Pat Rodgers in his "what breaks in training classes" thread. While it is certainly possible for a well made buffer spring to go 10, 15, or maybe even 20k or more rounds without issue, it is very common for them to fail at much lower round counts. I believe PR's recommended maintenance schedule for that part is replacement at ~5-7k rounds. The extractor spring (especially stock, standard version) is another part I wouldn't trust my life on past 10k rounds but to each their own.

The one and only thing I think a test like shows is...All the BS about DI AR's crapping were they eat and that being what makes them unreliable is BS. Or that the AR's tolerances are too tight and that's why they can't handle sand, mud etc... The truth is they can obviously handle all of that without issue ASSUMING the rifle is properly lubed. That is the key with the AR and that remains to the case regardless of whether is a DI or GP driven gun. The only realy downside to the AR compared to the AK is the AR's gas system (again, DI or GP) does seem to be more picky and requires the right buffer and spring to run 100%.

My $.02 anyway
Link Posted: 2/27/2012 5:38:58 AM EDT
That's a badass paint job.
Link Posted: 2/27/2012 6:14:34 AM EDT
I used to work with Karl Lewis, in respect to DOD contracting.

I'll tell you this, the man is one hell of an American success story.

The roots of his business through where LMT is at today is just amazing stuff.

Really good guy too.
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