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Basic
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Posted: 1/25/2012 3:01:38 PM EST
A couple of my buddies recently installed the Slide Fire "bump fire" stock onto the AR-15's and it is a blast, literally. I have a stock on hand but was thinking about putting it on a dedicated lower or possibly build an entire rifle for this purpose. I presently have an extra RRA stripped lower I picked up a while ago and would like to do this as inexpensively as possible since this is meant to be more of a "fun gun." Sure, anything I save will be burned in ammo but I would rather not cheap out and have problems all the time.

1. What parts can I cheap out on and what parts should be of the best quality possible? I would rather not spend an absolute fortune and accuracy isn't the primary goal here.

2. For barrels, I assume chrome lined is in order. It has also been suggested to go with a heavy contour made of 4150 steel instead of the more common and less costly 4140 steel. What do you think?

3. Anything special needed for a trigger? I read some people who say these kits prefer single stage while others say it doesn't matter. Single stage is definitely cheaper. I do plan to try and shoot .22lr through this system as I have seen videos of this being done and would save significantly on the cost of ammo but still be fun. My .22lr conversion is a drop in that takes the place of the bolt carrier group. Would the fact that I want to shoot a lot of .22lr make an impact on the trigger selection? Again, this isn't meant to be a match gun, just for fun.

4. I have a CMMG piston conversion for a carbine length gas system laying around. Would this be better than DI for such a purpose?

5. For the lower, I was looking at completing it with a Palmetto State Armory lower parts kit with the buffer and stock for around $100. This looks to be well respected for a budget solution. Anyone see a problem with this kit?

6. My other upper is a RRA M4 style with everything being RRA. This has the chrome lined barrel and came with a complete rifle kit I built a few years back. I also have an AR pistol (no go for legal reasons) and a varmiter (no go as I don't want to use it as a blaster) so this upper I have is the only one that makes sense for now.

7. Anyone else had much experience shooting with one of these stocks? Is there anything to worry about except the neighbors calling you in for having a machine gun? What parts take a beating and fail and what parts handle this just fine?

8. If you think I should get an entire upper, who makes one that will handle this type of abuse but not break the bank?

9. Would it be better to go cheap and replace parts as they break?

Thanks.
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Posted: 1/25/2012 3:27:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/27/2012 12:45:49 PM EST by jcrowl]
Sounds like a fun project. My only complaint would be that the Slide fire stock is ridiculously overpriced. Full auto can be fun,..for a while. I had a registered M16A1 for a number of years (24)..took it out to shoot maybe 10 times in all that time.
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Posted: 1/25/2012 3:56:50 PM EST
Yes, I agree that the Slide Fire stock is very overpriced but I got a deal on mine. It was NIB and I guess a guy needed money before he could put it to use. I expect to see a ton of Chinese copies floating around once the patent runs out.

Either way, I see it as a fun project without the cost of a registered full auto. I don't see it as something to shoot all the time (unless the .22lr works out well) and will mainly be something to pull out for the friends and family when they are around. This definitely seems to be something you want to let cool for a couple minutes between magazine dumps.
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Posted: 1/25/2012 5:22:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/25/2012 5:23:03 PM EST by Banshee35]
I have one that I run every once in a while on my SBR and I have a 11.5" .223 upper and an 8" 9mm upper that it runs great with with or without a can. I recently tried it on a 5.7 upper and it didn't have enough recoil to allow it to work. Now I need to work on it a bit and I think I could get it to work as there seems to be a slight rub on the buffer tube. Perhaps a little buffing, maybe lube the outside of the buffer tube, etc. I have seen the videos of it on a .22 but I think it is pretty hit or miss and would probably require a lot of tweaking...but from what I hear so do the RRs in .22.

If you want to have some cheap fun with it I would suggest looking at a 9mm upper if you're going to be buying a new upper for it anyway. You could still run the .223 one you have now on it once in a while without problem and perhaps a .22 as well. These things get badmouthed a lot but they are fun and I have spent more money on dumber shit. That being said, they really are more of a toy to turn money into noise...but still fun!
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Posted: 1/27/2012 5:17:37 AM EST
I'm currently also shopping for complete uppers and lowers to assemble a "bump fire" AR-15 that I'm going to shoot at OFASTS once a year.

So far, I'm looking at:

  • SA&A Complete Lower.
    Comes with DPMS LPK. I was looking at Spikes Lowers but I've read that both the SA&A and the Spikes lowers are made by Aero Precision.

  • BCM BFH 16" Middy Upper

  • BCM BCG

  • BCM GunFighter Med Latch Charging Handle


I'm still missing the rails. I need to look around more to find something that is not too crazy expensive. I want to put some sort of vfg or something on there for more control during mag dumps.

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Posted: 1/27/2012 5:23:34 AM EST
Buy the cheapest damn upper you can find. You won't be able to afford to shoot it out anyways and your accuracy is going to suck balls bumpfiring so it is a non-issue.

Throw a Spikes Melonited Gas tube on there for the heat and go waste some ammo.
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Posted: 1/27/2012 7:56:55 AM EST
I was thinking about one of these for a .22LR AR-15.

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Posted: 1/27/2012 9:18:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By CKMorley:
I was thinking about one of these for a .22LR AR-15.

ckmorley


will it work a 22lr AR ????
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Posted: 1/27/2012 9:50:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By user426:

Originally Posted By CKMorley:
I was thinking about one of these for a .22LR AR-15.

ckmorley


will it work a 22lr AR ????

There were some good videos of people getting the SSAR to work with a MP15-22 (with all types of ammo... actually worked really well with Federal cheap stuff)

I've heard (but haven't seen) that it can work with a .22lr AR-15 if you slap a Levang comp or something similar on it.
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Posted: 1/27/2012 10:00:09 AM EST
I had one on my M&P 15-22 for a short time. It does not work at all with the stock trigger setup because .22 does not have enough recoil to actuate the trigger properly. This can be resolved cheaply by adding some JL springs, or a lighter trigger setup like a Geisselle drop in. Since I was pretty happy with the gun the way it was, and really wanted to finish my middy build, I ended up selling the slide fire to free up the cash. I figure I will grab another one at some point, but for now I needed the money more.
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Posted: 1/27/2012 11:13:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By Terminator2003:
I had one on my M&P 15-22 for a short time. It does not work at all with the stock trigger setup because .22 does not have enough recoil to actuate the trigger properly. This can be resolved cheaply by adding some JL springs, or a lighter trigger setup like a Geisselle drop in. Since I was pretty happy with the gun the way it was, and really wanted to finish my middy build, I ended up selling the slide fire to free up the cash. I figure I will grab another one at some point, but for now I needed the money more.


Thanks for the info.

ckmorley
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Posted: 1/27/2012 12:04:12 PM EST
Have not seen it mentioned yet but, try a comp of some sort to tame the muzzle movement. Not saying you will need one but for extended firing it may be worthwhile just for the comfort factor. Consider also that you will have lots of attention when shooting it, that means potential novices wanting to give it a go, If they arent prepared for the forces exerted by the rifle during firing the comp and the heavy contour barrel will help with that. I would forget about trying to make it work with .22lr drop in kit. The ar trigger wont reset without the proper recoil. A m& p 15 22 must have a different (lighter?) trigger or i cant see how someone made it work with a conv kit and normal ar trigger.
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Posted: 1/27/2012 12:40:03 PM EST
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Posted: 1/27/2012 12:50:46 PM EST
I dont get where the price argument fits. I see plenty of rails pictured on this site close to $300.00 in the catalogs. High dollar stocks too, but to each their own. I'm not putting the slide fire on the same plane as Troy or larue or vltor parts,but it does do something no other stock can do. I bet some of the people who are hating on the price would shove an old lady out of the way to get at a registered dias if they thought it was $2000.00
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Posted: 1/27/2012 12:57:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By cwatkin:

7. Anyone else had much experience shooting with one of these stocks? Is there anything to worry about except the neighbors calling you in for having a machine gun? What parts take a beating and fail and what parts handle this just fine?


Only choose the best rifle with the best parts when flirting with the humorsome children at the ATF who ruin lives as capriciously as the direction of the wind.
"I will tell you what the best caliber is. It is the bullet, that is fired by the man, who sees the other guy first. In my experience, the caliber doesn't matter." - patkrysbold
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Posted: 1/27/2012 5:20:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/27/2012 5:28:41 PM EST by JCunningham]
PSA good stuff. used barrel. you don't need chrome lined unless you don't plan on cleaning it. why spend money on a barrel if your just going to destroy it anyway. you will need the money for ammo so you can shoot $30 a minute
The AR is a battle rifle and should be expected to perform as such.
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Posted: 3/27/2012 6:27:17 AM EST
I finally got my bumpfire setup going and it works great. I am going to still get a dedicated upper for this which has been ordered but I did it and was just careful with my standard barrel upper as to let it cool off well between blasts. It started jamming after a while and I am pretty sure it is because it blew all the lube out of the action after many blasts.

The crappy neighbors up the road did call the sheriff's dept. and they didn't even care. They wanted to see it in action and got a big kick out of it so we just kept on making noise and had a good time. These neighbors or the type of people who shouldn't have moved to the country as they call the sheriff about everything, even when it isn't illegal, yet feel they can let mean dogs have the run of the place. The AR-15 has helped keep that problem under control. Yes, these people have called the sheriff on neighbors who are farmers because they didn't want to hear chickens, tractors, or cows mooing.

I also tried shooting my .22lr conversion with the cheap bulk Federal ammo from Wal-Mart and it didn't work. I lubed the slide with graphite and am using a PSA single stage trigger but it didn't work. I guess I would need a better trigger for this to work. Overall, I have found that the bulk Federal ammo is pretty good stuff and fires in just about anything.

Thanks,

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Posted: 3/27/2012 6:31:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By cwatkin:
I finally got my bumpfire setup going and it works great. I am going to still get a dedicated upper for this which has been ordered but I did it and was just careful with my standard barrel upper as to let it cool off well between blasts. It started jamming after a while and I am pretty sure it is because it blew all the lube out of the action after many blasts.

The crappy neighbors up the road did call the sheriff's dept. and they didn't even care. They wanted to see it in action and got a big kick out of it so we just kept on making noise and had a good time. These neighbors or the type of people who shouldn't have moved to the country as they call the sheriff about everything, even when it isn't illegal, yet feel they can let mean dogs have the run of the place. The AR-15 has helped keep that problem under control. Yes, these people have called the sheriff on neighbors who are farmers because they didn't want to hear chickens, tractors, or cows mooing.

I also tried shooting my .22lr conversion with the cheap bulk Federal ammo from Wal-Mart and it didn't work. I lubed the slide with graphite and am using a PSA single stage trigger but it didn't work. I guess I would need a better trigger for this to work. Overall, I have found that the bulk Federal ammo is pretty good stuff and fires in just about anything.

Thanks,

Conor


Using graphite lube around Aluminum is not advised.
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Posted: 3/27/2012 7:58:34 AM EST
What is wrong with the graphite on the aluminum buffer tube? Should I take this apart (easy) and clean it off well?

Thanks,

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Posted: 3/27/2012 3:01:27 PM EST
I have a slide fire stock.
It will not work with .22LR, as there's not enough recoil to cycle the mass of the entire weapon.
You may be able to get it to work if you assist the recoil (push AND pull on the handguard) but unassisted the .22LR lacks the power to get it done.

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Posted: 3/27/2012 3:44:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/27/2012 3:44:34 PM EST by 1911xdm]
i hate those types of people. just glad the cops were cool about it. The police in my area think no one should have guns.
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Posted: 3/27/2012 4:30:17 PM EST
TBH I think those things are kinda cool... but then not at the same time. It's like those autozone stick on fender vents....

but anyways have fun with it if its possible with 22lr
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Posted: 3/27/2012 5:00:34 PM EST
If the slide fire works with a MP15-22 I will get one for mine that would be sick with a drum mag
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Posted: 3/28/2012 7:14:59 AM EST
Thanks for all the information. Yes, this is just a toy and seems somewhat expensive but if you can afford the ammo, the cost of the stock shouldn't be a concern.

Please advise me why using graphite lube between the aluminum buffer tube and Slide Fire stock is a bad idea. Since this didn't help with .22lr on this rifle, I don't really care and can clean it off. I will probably just go ahead and clean it for good measure but was just wondering why it is bad.

Also, yeah, I was real happy that the cops were cool too. I think they were just happy it was 4 guys just having fun and not some nutcase! They didn't take my name or nothin! I figured those people would call me in for automatic weapons fire and I wasn't disappointed. After all the other crap they have done, I decided to blast on my land instead of the normal shooting range to piss them off.

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Posted: 3/28/2012 7:29:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By cwatkin:
Thanks for all the information. Yes, this is just a toy and seems somewhat expensive but if you can afford the ammo, the cost of the stock shouldn't be a concern.

Please advise me why using graphite lube between the aluminum buffer tube and Slide Fire stock is a bad idea. Since this didn't help with .22lr on this rifle, I don't really care and can clean it off. I will probably just go ahead and clean it for good measure but was just wondering why it is bad.

Also, yeah, I was real happy that the cops were cool too. I think they were just happy it was 4 guys just having fun and not some nutcase! They didn't take my name or nothin! I figured those people would call me in for automatic weapons fire and I wasn't disappointed. After all the other crap they have done, I decided to blast on my land instead of the normal shooting range to piss them off.

Conor


no gun is a toy! I would not use that piston kit with it because then you can not run your 22lr kit because it was made for a DI AR 15. Also stick with standard rounded hammered triggers as the two stage ones do not work with the 22lr kit. other than that the only cheap parts I would use on a rifle would be cosmetic: stock, grip, handguard, vfg, etc.
"Stupid is as Stupid does" -Forrest Gump
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Posted: 3/28/2012 9:27:27 AM EST
graphite can and will corrode aluminum,
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Posted: 3/29/2012 9:38:58 AM EST
Thanks for the advice. Yes, I agree with you that no gun is a toy but you know what I mean. :). I also call my 4WD Jeep a toy but like a gun, this could kill me or others if used wrong. So, these are toys for big boys.

For the lower I put this on, I didn't cheap out too bad. I used a PSA lower parts kit in a RRA lower so I would say that these should work just fine which they did on the first few uses. I also try to go for "value" and not just "cheap". In a lot of cases, the more expensive unit (doesn't matter what it is or if it is even gun related) is cheaper in the long run.

Thanks for the advice on the graphite. I will be removing this and read several other places that graphite is a NO-NO on aluminum, commonly guns.

As for .22 lr, I have given up on this for now. They make a bump fire stock and trigger for these (see http://fostechoutdoors.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=5) for the 10/22 so this might be the way to go. Although this seems expensive, it looks to be a quality product and one can make up the savings on ammo real quick!

Thanks,

Conor
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Posted: 3/29/2012 9:41:54 AM EST
Thanks for the advice. Yes, I agree with you that no gun is a toy but you know what I mean. :). I also call my 4WD Jeep a toy but like a gun, this could kill me or others if used wrong. So, these are toys for big boys.

For the lower I put this on, I didn't cheap out too bad. I used a PSA lower parts kit in a RRA lower so I would say that these should work just fine which they did on the first few uses. I also try to go for "value" and not just "cheap". In a lot of cases, the more expensive unit (doesn't matter what it is or if it is even gun related) is cheaper in the long run.

Thanks for the advice on the graphite. I will be removing this and read several other places that graphite is a NO-NO on aluminum, commonly guns.

As for .22 lr, I have given up on this for now. They make a bump fire stock and trigger for these (see http://fostechoutdoors.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=5) for the 10/22 so this might be the way to go. Although this seems expensive, it looks to be a quality product and one can make up the savings on ammo real quick! They do make a .22 conversion kit for AR-15s that work with piston kits. I think it is called the .22 evolution or something. Mine is not compatible with a piston.

Thanks,

Conor
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Posted: 3/29/2012 11:18:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2012 11:19:58 AM EST by scudzuki]
I have a can of this already and thought about using it with the slide-fire but haven't tried it yet.
It is an aerosol that dries to a film of pure molybdenum disulfide (moly) dry lube.
Safer than a graphite lube on aluminum.
MolyKote at McMaster-Carr

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Posted: 3/29/2012 11:28:32 AM EST
The Slide Fire is not going to work with a standard AR .22 conversion. It's too heavy.

The S&W M&P 15-22 has a polymer receiver (upper and lower) and is very light. The standard trigger doesn't work. I put a Geissele SSA in it and could get bursts, but not a full mag. The Geissele SSA is two stage - it won't reset consistently.

I am going to try cutting one leg of my hammer spring and bending the other, along with bending my trigger spring.

That will probably lead to light strikes, so I will then spring for a Timney 3# trigger to get this thing running right.
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Posted: 3/29/2012 4:36:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By criley:
The Slide Fire is not going to work with a standard AR .22 conversion. It's too heavy.

The S&W M&P 15-22 has a polymer receiver (upper and lower) and is very light. The standard trigger doesn't work. I put a Geissele SSA in it and could get bursts, but not a full mag. The Geissele SSA is two stage - it won't reset consistently.

I am going to try cutting one leg of my hammer spring and bending the other, along with bending my trigger spring.

That will probably lead to light strikes, so I will then spring for a Timney 3# trigger to get this thing running right.


I have heard that the JP light spring set will allow it to work with the 15-22. I wanted to try it, but ended up selling it before I got around to modifying the gun.
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Posted: 3/31/2012 6:09:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By Terminator2003:
Originally Posted By criley:
The Slide Fire is not going to work with a standard AR .22 conversion. It's too heavy.

The S&W M&P 15-22 has a polymer receiver (upper and lower) and is very light. The standard trigger doesn't work. I put a Geissele SSA in it and could get bursts, but not a full mag. The Geissele SSA is two stage - it won't reset consistently.

I am going to try cutting one leg of my hammer spring and bending the other, along with bending my trigger spring.

That will probably lead to light strikes, so I will then spring for a Timney 3# trigger to get this thing running right.


I have heard that the JP light spring set will allow it to work with the 15-22. I wanted to try it, but ended up selling it before I got around to modifying the gun.



Well, I cut off one leg of the hammer spring, bent the trigger spring to weaken it, put a set screw in the grip screw area to reduce overtravel of the trigger, and it still won't run with stock springs.

Ignition was fine, though.

Gonna have to buy a Timney.
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Posted: 3/31/2012 3:02:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By criley:
Originally Posted By Terminator2003:
Originally Posted By criley:
The Slide Fire is not going to work with a standard AR .22 conversion. It's too heavy.

The S&W M&P 15-22 has a polymer receiver (upper and lower) and is very light. The standard trigger doesn't work. I put a Geissele SSA in it and could get bursts, but not a full mag. The Geissele SSA is two stage - it won't reset consistently.

I am going to try cutting one leg of my hammer spring and bending the other, along with bending my trigger spring.

That will probably lead to light strikes, so I will then spring for a Timney 3# trigger to get this thing running right.


I have heard that the JP light spring set will allow it to work with the 15-22. I wanted to try it, but ended up selling it before I got around to modifying the gun.



Well, I cut off one leg of the hammer spring, bent the trigger spring to weaken it, put a set screw in the grip screw area to reduce overtravel of the trigger, and it still won't run with stock springs.

Ignition was fine, though.

Gonna have to buy a Timney.



JP springs are only $10 so I would try those first if I were you.
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Posted: 4/1/2012 5:26:04 PM EST
Well, I got tired of no joy with the .22, so I put the Slide Fire on my 6450 and it ran perfectly. It put big smiles on our faces and drew the neighbor over. He ran some rounds through it and was smiling, too.
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Posted: 4/21/2012 8:15:40 AM EST
Yes, the slide fire seems to draw smiles from all those around except for one set of idiot neighbors that complain about everything.

I got a PSA upper since it was about the best bang for the buck. It is this one: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/complete-uppers/psa-20-hammer-forged-cl-mp-a2-upper.html

I figure this will withstand the abuse of bumpfiring better than others. I haven't shot it a ton as I wanted to break it in somewhat easy and clean it between mags but it seems to shoot very nicely. My initial impressions are that this is a quality kit. No parts have come loose on this one unlike another maker who charges about double for their products.

My next upgrade may be a titanium firing pin for faster cycle rate/durability.

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Posted: 4/21/2012 10:00:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2012 10:02:07 AM EST by iNeXile556]

Originally Posted By scudzuki:
I have a can of this already and thought about using it with the slide-fire but haven't tried it yet.
It is an aerosol that dries to a film of pure molybdenum disulfide (moly) dry lube.
Safer than a graphite lube on aluminum.
MolyKote at McMaster-Carr

Joe

You might want to read the product description Einstein:

snip..."This moly and graphite lubricant...
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