Hey all,

I'm working on building a 3 gun rifle and am now down to the BCG. I've never had a problem with the phosphate BCG's but toyed around with the idea of doing a hard chrome or NiB BCG on this build. Are either of these worth the extra money? It seems the more I read on NiB the more I don't like. I'm reading stuff like the finish flaking off of even the name brand BCG's (on Spikes and FailZero BCG's). So now I'm starting to worry about even going this route or sticking with phosphate. I'm open to hearing any and all feedback, preferably from actual owners.

Thanks,

Bravo

I have a few LWRC piston ARs that came with nickle boron coated BCGs as well as I have a Glock 17 in the NB finish on the slide and barrel.   It really makes a huge difference in clean up.  Just use a rag and wipe the dirt right off and you are done.  No solvents or scrubbig required.

Also, the nickle boron coating is self lubricating.  Yes you should still use some lubricant, but it stays slick much longer than the phosphate coating.

I would spring for the extra $ and get the NB finish.  You will be glad you did.

Get the chrome from Rainier and save a few $$ for more ammo. I do own a chrome from Spike's (they don't make'm anymore) and the cleanup is great, super easy.
The chrome practically cleans up with just a rag, no scrubbing.  I imagine the NiB is the same but I can find no other benefits for either. Durability? Longevity?

I picked up a R-guns and for the first several months it worked great used very little oil and it cleaned up very well. I was shooting up to 100 rounds with no problems. Then about a month and a half ago I fired over 150 rounds trying to find a load and bullet combo that shot very accurate. I did not clean the gun for a couple of days after placing the still very warm gun in the case and the bolt was stuck TIGHT very tight I was unable to pull the BCG back with the charging handle. After spraying WD-40 and pulling on the charging handle it came loose but felt like it was full of sand. I disassemble the gun could not see anything wrong cleaned all the parts lubed up and was free again. I have not had a chance to repeat the problem but will shoot the piss out of it and see if it does it again.

I purchased a new BCG from Palmetto during the Black Friday sale for $89.00 and if the R-guns NIB messes up again I will have a replacement

If I were you I would pass on the NIB BCGs

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If I have any more problems I would love to make you a deal on this one.

I picked up a like new Spike's Nickel Boron full auto BCG here for $170.  Thing is SLICK!  Hasn't failed on me yet.  But then again, I run it with just as much lube as I did on my phosphate one.  If I had to pay the full price on it which is $225, I probably would not have bought one.  My phosphate BCG's have never failed on me.  The most rounds I've ran through a phosphate one is about 2500 with no issues at all.  I'd expect that and more out of the nickel boron one at the price I paid.  One of these days I'm going to try and run it without any lube for 500 rounds to see if any issues occur.

I am believing more in NiB as I use mine more. I started with a 5.45 Spikes NiB BCG and abused the crap outa mine, but continuued dropping a couple drops of lube every 100-200 rounds. Ran several hundred rounds of corrosive ammo each range trip, while my accuracy was not so good, the BCG cleaning was a breeze. I never considered cleaning a standard parkerized BCG that much of a chore, but this stuff cleans easily and is much slicker than chrome. I am converting more stuff over to NiB slowly, even tho I was slow to warm to it. Like anything mechanical, it should be taken care of minimally at least. It offers much better corrosion resistance than standard finishes also, which is important with corrosive ammo.
More and more companies are offering it and testing shows it to be beneficial. It is not magic, just another option. Others who used it more than me have good oppinions of it, time will tell if it is here to stay, I am betting it is (till something even better comes along).  It's cost is coming down slowly, dunno if it is really cost effective. I like it.

Heard nothing but praise about Spikes Nib. And several complaints about RGuns & core 15 NIckel boron BCG's.

I hear throwing BCM's extractor upgrade in the Rguns NiB BCG has worked well for some

I have heard 2-3 people have issues with them, on the one hand it appears someone got a standard run of the mill manufacturers screw up where the coating was wearing off, this was covered under warranty and replaced to the customers satisfaction, and the other issues it seems a couple people will shoot them with no lube for a few hundred rounds, not clean them afterward, and then the carbon dries and sticks to itself and creates a bond which is hard to manually break.  

I currently have 2 of them and have run them thousands rounds each, in shooting schedules ranging from 20 rounds at a time to a thousand rounds at a time, both lightly lubed and no lube, cleaned right after shooting, let sit for months, wet or dry and never had a problem.

If you are concerned about the BCG sticking then either A. Wipe it off with a cloth after shooting or B. Spray it down with WD40 either after shooting or before bringing it out after a long time of not cleaning after heavy shooting.

If you are concerned about the wear of the coating you shouldn't be... there has only been that 1 report and this is something that was obviously a manufacturers defect that happens to everyone and would not have come to light without use.  Completely covered by warranty and just one of those things that happen occasionally.

The product does work as advertised.

I have had a spikes one in mine for sometime now, nothing but praise from this side, very easy to clean. I can scrape the carbon off the bolt tail with my finger nail. I lube mine with either a couple drops of tetra lube, or mobil 1 5w30. No issues so far!

I was one of the unlucky ones that had a bad coating.

Basically mine was more like painted on which increased tolerances and after a couple hundred round the BCG would bind even when using lube, the coatig was also coming off after only 600 rnds i had multiple spots on the BCG as well as bolt.

Im sure thure great if yours gets coated correctly, mine was incredibly smooth for 200-300 rounds after that it really gummed up.

The BCG was under warranty and replaced, i just have bad luck like that lol

I just sent my NiB BCG back to Spikes Tactical for replacement...new one is on its way. Basically,...the coating was coming off at the bottom area where the hammer makes contact and at the upper 2 carrier rails. In both areas the surface was no longer smooth and most likely prematurely wearing the upper receiver. Thinking on selling the new one when it comes back and going with the phosphate BCG....I had about 1000rds on mine, but the coating was coming off sooner than that. Can anyone with a good amount of rounds run through their gun post some good close-up pics of those areas I mentioned?

I've got a FZ one and love it.  I'm not going to type a paragraph on why I like it but suffice it to say I'll never own another that isn't NiB coated unless something better comes along.

When considering a hard chromed, or super hard coating on the BCG like NiB, CBN, TiN, TiCN, TiAlN,  it should only be considered for ease of cleaning and not for the durability, extended life of the BC.  Nitride coatings are good for industrial applications (machining) but complete over-kill for most firearms.
NiB is extremely hard, measuring somewhere around 70 in the Rockwell 'C' scale (the higher the number the harder).
Remember that the BCG is sliding around inside of aluminum, usually 7075 Al, sometimes the softer 6061 Al.
7075 is so much softer than the NiB, that it is measured on a completely different scale.  Most standard BCG are made of 4130, 4140, 4150 Chromoloy,(CRMO) heat treated to around 48-51 Rc.  That is also so much harder than the aluminum upper receiver it is reciprocating in.  And that is not even mentioning the hard chrome plating of BCG's.
While 7075 Al is abrasive, it is still no match to the durability of uncoated, heat treated 4150 CRMO. steel.  So a NiB coated BC would wear out several hundred upper receivers before it became unserviceable.
And how many thousands of rounds would it take to wear out a upper receiver, then multiply that by 100, 200 or even 300?
The lube you are using in the upper receiver is to resist wear to the aluminum on the upper receiver/charging handle, and for the movement of the bolt twisting inside of the carrier, and the locking lugs moving in the barrel extension, with like-metals and hardness wearing evenly.
An additional drawback is that with hardness comes brittleness.  That is with every element in the universe that I can think of, and especially metals, and metal alloys.  Carbide is very hard, but if you drop it or shock it, it will chip.  NiB is no different.  If not perfectly fused to the mating metal it will chip and flake.  The edges that have flaked off or now protruding, even however slight, and becomes a chisel or knife wearing away your upper receiver even quicker.
That's my opinion for what it is worth.  Probably a little more scientific than what is necessary, but I look at it as a machinist point of view, and dealing with coatings 4 days a week.

I have owned the Fail Zero and RGuns.  I stand by them wholeheartedly.  My friend and a former team member here did a lot of the initial testing for UCT.

I think you're forgetting that the BCG is not sliding on 7075 AL (or 6061), it is sliding on the anodizing aluminum oxide layer which is much harder than the base aluminum. The NiB is also supposed to provide a low friction surface which should reduce wear as long as it's kept clean.

+1

Mine stuck and returned it. Powder fouling wouldn't just wipe off like my chromes do it was very dry feeling. And wouldn't wipe clean w/o oil or solvent. Very disappointed. Chrome for me.

One can buy brand new NiB bcgs cheaper than that chrome bcg.

I fired mine with no lube for almost 800 rounds, no issue. Also, your advice about wd40 is insanely wrong. WD40 will gum up over time and shouldn't ever be anywhere near a gun. Ever.

My NiB bcg rides in a NiB upper.

The WD40 thing came from Tom @ spikes.  It works for me on the NiB BCG. I'll post a retraction when I have problems.

This doesn't surprise me at all.

Just like you said.  I shoot a lot.  Usually 300-500 rounds every couple weeks recently.  Ive been shooting AR's for decades.  I do clean my guns usually after shooting unless its going back out in a week or so.  Ive never had a BCG fail me other than an extractor spring that just gave up.  I've replaced gas rings around 5,000 rounds.  I don't use chrome or NB.  Its like the wife that just has to move the furniture for no other reason than "CHANGE".  if it's working, don't change it.,......Mike

Except phophate is inferior in other ways, not just reliability. NiB makes clearing malfunctions FAR easier.

However, if one ISN'T having malfunctions.......I'm not.
Not trying to say NB or chrome is better or not for anything.  I'm just putting in my $.02 .  Cleaning isn't a big deal for me as I learned years ago not to shoot a lot of guns at one time.  I don't take more than 3 to the range a day.  I clean lightly too.  Phosphated with chrome interior ok for me.
Have fun, shoot safe....Mike

This is exactly what happened to me

I own two Fail Zeros and I would say they are great.  I read someones post about shooting it putting it away and it locked up on him.  I would say it was the oil he put on it that caused it to lock up.  I don't lube mine at all.  Fail Zeros saying is grease bad guys not guns.

I have stated this multiple times before so I will link a torture test story to this page.  

The page

I've lalways used hard-chrome BCG's and they work just fine for me. Now how much better Nickle Boron BCG's are I can't say. For now until NIB bolts come down in price I rather stay with hard-chrome myself. It cleans up fast for me and practically nothing sticks to the chrome plating anyway. If NIB bolts are your thing then go for it cuz it's your money and not mine.

Impala

In my spikes SBR I run a spikes NIb, in my LMT I run a fail zero Nib, I understand that they are both fail zero coatings.  Just one has the cool spider.  I love these bolts, i was very resistant to change and now I won't run anything else.  I have 2 more on order for my 6.8 and a 14.5.

I love these bolts and recommend them to anyone building an AR