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Posted: 12/13/2009 4:27:06 PM EDT
[#1]
colt has the m4 contract... fn and colt make the m16
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Posted: 12/13/2009 4:29:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Colt for the M4
FN or Colt for the m16a4 FN for the SAW and others Beretta for the M9 Who makes the m14 that is in use? SA? Sabre makes barrels for some things G.E. mini gun. Lots of people you may never have heard of also I would guess. |
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Posted: 12/13/2009 4:30:47 PM EDT
[#3]
Does FN make parts available to some of the other builders?
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Posted: 12/13/2009 4:32:11 PM EDT
[#4]
No. Parts were made using US Govt supplied tech package and the contract says they can only make for .gov or .gov export policy. Civilian parts are not allowed.....yet.
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Posted: 12/13/2009 4:36:55 PM EDT
[#5]
Sabre Defence recently landed a government contract for the production of a quantity of M16A4s. All made in the USA, Colt in Hartford, Ct. and FN at its plant in Columbia, S.C.
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Posted: 12/13/2009 4:47:23 PM EDT
[#6]
OK thanks guys, great information. So do all these players like RRA, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, DPMS, Delton, etc, etc make all their own parts? Like trigger assemblies, buffer tubes, buffers, upper receiver, etc?
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Posted: 12/13/2009 5:19:37 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Who makes the m14 that is in use? SA? . They were all made before most othe memebers of this board were born. Springfield Armrory (the real one in Mass - not the pouser company that makes the M1A), H&R and IIRC Winchester made them. Some have been reworked by Crane or other High Power Competition related firms (that still have expertise in that obsolete platform). |
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Posted: 12/13/2009 6:19:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
OK thanks guys, great information. So do all these players like RRA, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, DPMS, Delton, etc, etc make all their own parts? Like trigger assemblies, buffer tubes, buffers, upper receiver, etc? No, they all use various subs for parts, including lower receivers!!!! Not all the time, but sometimes (on the receivers). This includes Colt's. The thing is, if you get a rifle made of the same parts by the same people who make the government guns, you must have bought a Colt's. |
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Posted: 12/13/2009 6:33:23 PM EDT
[#9]
HHHMMM....Gov contract means what?...Meets minium contract specs at the lowest cost. Its called the lowest bidder.
BUT does not mean all can meet the minium contract specs. |
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Posted: 12/13/2009 6:50:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Who makes the m14 that is in use? SA? . They were all made before most othe memebers of this board were born. Springfield Armrory (the real one in Mass - not the pouser company that makes the M1A), H&R and IIRC Winchester made them. Some have been reworked by Crane or other High Power Competition related firms (that still have expertise in that obsolete platform). TRW, Thompson-Ramo-Wooldridge also made M14s |
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Posted: 12/13/2009 6:52:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
OK thanks guys, great information. So do all these players like RRA, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, DPMS, Delton, etc, etc make all their own parts? Like trigger assemblies, buffer tubes, buffers, upper receiver, etc? No, they all use various subs for parts, including lower receivers!!!! Not all the time, but sometimes (on the receivers). This includes Colt's. The thing is, if you get a rifle made of the same parts by the same people who make the government guns, you must have bought a Colt's. Colt makes all of their own parts |
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Posted: 12/13/2009 7:10:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Colt supplies the M4s/M16s and they get their barrels from Green Mountain Barrel Co.
I have one of their 10/22 stainless bull barrels and the thing is nice  |
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Posted: 12/13/2009 7:11:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Who makes the m14 that is in use? SA? . ...Some have been reworked by Crane or other High Power Competition related firms (that still have expertise in that obsolete platform). Obsolete???....stills seems to do a hell of a job overseas. Old, yes...Obsolete, no. |
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Posted: 12/13/2009 7:17:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Colt supplies the M4s/M16s and they get their barrels from Green Mountain Barrel Co. I have one of their 10/22 stainless bull barrels and the thing is nice 
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Posted: 12/13/2009 7:19:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
OK thanks guys, great information. So do all these players like RRA, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, DPMS, Delton, etc, etc make all their own parts? Like trigger assemblies, buffer tubes, buffers, upper receiver, etc? No, they all use various subs for parts, including lower receivers!!!! Not all the time, but sometimes (on the receivers). This includes Colt's. The thing is, if you get a rifle made of the same parts by the same people who make the government guns, you must have bought a Colt's. Colt makes all of their own parts Not always true. They try to but use subs on occasion. |
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Posted: 12/14/2009 12:06:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Who makes the m14 that is in use? SA? . ...Some have been reworked by Crane or other High Power Competition related firms (that still have expertise in that obsolete platform). Obsolete???....stills seems to do a hell of a job overseas. Old, yes...Obsolete, no. Yes obsolete. It was obsoltee the day it was made. Obsolete in that the US Army has not procured USGI replacement parts since 1976 or so, they don't have a school to train M14 Armorers, the rifles have accuracy issues (I can hear the gasps of surpris over the internet), and they don't mount optics easily. If it wern't for Remmington slowing down the SASS deployment by protesting the contractg award, and the fact commanders have limited budgets (a rifle in the armory is free even if it only has 1 magazine - SASS's cost) they would not be using the M14 at all. |
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Posted: 12/14/2009 12:29:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Who makes the m14 that is in use? SA? . ...Some have been reworked by Crane or other High Power Competition related firms (that still have expertise in that obsolete platform). Obsolete???....stills seems to do a hell of a job overseas. Old, yes...Obsolete, no. Yes obsolete. It was obsoltee the day it was made. Obsolete in that the US Army has not procured USGI replacement parts since 1976 or so, they don't have a school to train M14 Armorers, the rifles have accuracy issues (I can hear the gasps of surpris over the internet), and they don't mount optics easily. If it wern't for Remmington slowing down the SASS deployment by protesting the contractg award, and the fact commanders have limited budgets (a rifle in the armory is free even if it only has 1 magazine - SASS's cost) they would not be using the M14 at all. I still hold firm that it is not obsolete so good luck with your "well if we had this then....." argument. Yes my father carried one in his career which is why I do agree it's old as dirt, but obsolete hell no. It is an excellent platform for the 7.62x51mm cartridge, and has soldiered on very well in the GWOT. |
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Posted: 12/14/2009 1:14:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Colt supplies the M4s/M16s and they get their barrels from Green Mountain Barrel Co. 
So why stamp a barrel C MP if it's made by Green Mountain? What about FN M16A2s, Or going back further, the GM Hydromatic M16A1 that still has converted A2 models in active duty arms rooms? |
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Posted: 12/14/2009 1:39:53 PM EDT
[#19]
This may seem like a silly question but what, exactly, is our standard service rifle? A2, M4, and what is an M16A4?
regards, Ralph |
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Posted: 12/14/2009 1:48:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
This may seem like a silly question but what, exactly, is our standard service rifle? A2, M4, and what is an M16A4? regards, Ralph M16A4 is the same as an M16A2 but with a flattop upper. KAC M5 RAS usually attached in place of the standard handguard http://www.colt.com/mil/M16.asp |
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Posted: 12/14/2009 2:16:44 PM EDT
[#21]
See Forest's post below...
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Posted: 12/14/2009 2:22:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Who makes the m14 that is in use? SA? . They were all made before most othe memebers of this board were born. Springfield Armrory (the real one in Mass - not the pouser company that makes the M1A), H&R and IIRC Winchester made them. Some have been reworked by Crane or other High Power Competition related firms (that still have expertise in that obsolete platform). Um... not quite. There was a shortage of M14s in inventory when the Army started issuing them in Afganistan again for DMR use. The Army purchased a large number of Springfield M1As to fill in the gaps. |
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Posted: 12/14/2009 2:27:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Who makes the m14 that is in use? SA? . They were all made before most othe memebers of this board were born. Springfield Armrory (the real one in Mass - not the pouser company that makes the M1A), H&R and IIRC Winchester made them. Some have been reworked by Crane or other High Power Competition related firms (that still have expertise in that obsolete platform). Um... not quite. There was a shortage of M14s in inventory when the Army started issuing them in Afganistan again for DMR use. The Army purchased a large number of Springfield M1As to fill in the gaps. I'm going to call BS for several reasons. First is there is NO support in the Army (spare parts or training) for such weapons. Second they have not issued any calls for bids on such an item. They wanted a DMR .308 and they had a bid and competition. The KAC SASS won. That is the weapon the Army is starting to issue. They have the spare parts, magazines, and training. It's a platform that is known. There may have been a few units who purchased M1As using company funds to fill the gap till the SASS got to them, but I'd put money on that being few and far between (and not from 'The Army'). |
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Posted: 12/14/2009 2:27:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Colt supplies the M4s/M16s and they get their barrels from Green Mountain Barrel Co. I have one of their 10/22 stainless bull barrels and the thing is nice O Rly? Thats what I was told by Green Mtn. They lied then. Colt makes their own barrel in their Hartford Plant. |
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Posted: 12/14/2009 2:31:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Colt supplies the M4s/M16s and they get their barrels from Green Mountain Barrel Co. I have one of their 10/22 stainless bull barrels and the thing is nice O Rly? Thats what I was told by Green Mtn. They lied then. Colt makes their own barrel in their Hartford Plant. Fascinating... Oh well, I still love my 10/22 barrel  |
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Posted: 12/14/2009 2:55:13 PM EDT
[#26]
I have a FN upper on my ar at home. It's a 20" flat top. Front sight base is marked FN too. I'm not saying where I got though.
I was in a unit that had several M-14's. That was mid 90's though. I seem to remember some sort of manual for it, but can't be sure. I have no idea where we got parts for them. (wasn't my gig) |
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Posted: 12/14/2009 3:05:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Colt supplies the M4s/M16s and they get their barrels from Green Mountain Barrel Co. I have one of their 10/22 stainless bull barrels and the thing is nice then they told you a bald face lie colt makes all their own parts minus a few springs and roll pins/pin and furniture You can see pics of them making upper/lowers and barrels in the CT factory if you just take the time to look instead of relying on errornet BS. or venders trying to sale you something |
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Posted: 12/14/2009 3:06:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Colt for the M4 FN or Colt for the m16a4 FN for the SAW and others Beretta for the M9 Who makes the m14 that is in use? SA? Sabre makes barrels for some things G.E. mini gun. Lots of people you may never have heard of also I would guess. Colt had the exclusive rights for the M4 but lost it recently so probably soon the future procurement will be up for bid. I heard they won the contract for M16s again for the military. M9 is made by BerettaUSA I believe... I think there was something in the contract that said the military's guns had to be made stateside. |
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Posted: 12/14/2009 3:12:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
OK thanks guys, great information. So do all these players like RRA, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, DPMS, Delton, etc, etc make all their own parts? Like trigger assemblies, buffer tubes, buffers, upper receiver, etc? No, they all use various subs for parts, including lower receivers!!!! Not all the time, but sometimes (on the receivers). This includes Colt's. The thing is, if you get a rifle made of the same parts by the same people who make the government guns, you must have bought a Colt's. Colt makes all of their own parts Wrong. See below: Quoted:
Quoted:
Colt supplies the M4s/M16s and they get their barrels from Green Mountain Barrel Co. I have one of their 10/22 stainless bull barrels and the thing is nice then they told you a bald face lie colt makes all their own parts minus a few springs and roll pins/pin and furniture You can see pics of them making upper/lowers and barrels in the CT factory if you just take the time to look instead of relying on errornet BS. or venders trying to sale you something Mag catch is not made by Colt but sourced. |
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Posted: 12/14/2009 5:58:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Parts not made by Colt from time to time include. Some FA lower parts for M4 contract. Stocks, hand guards, and pistol grips. Side sling swivel- M4. That's what I can remember off hand, I'm sure there are others.
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Posted: 12/16/2009 9:07:43 AM EDT
[#31]
I just read an article in Guns & Ammo Book of the AR-15 that says Sabre Defence has been awarded a small production run of M16A4 rifles for the USN and USMC. "Sabre was recently awarded a contract to produce more than 5,500 M16A4 rifles to support the U.S. Navy, Marine Corps and several foreign military customers. Nine bids were received, with Sabre being only the third company in the 45-year history - besides Colt and FN - to be awarded a contract to supply a mil spec M16 to the government - no small accomplishment, to be sure". The author is Pat Cascio and its on page 124 for anyone interested.
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Posted: 12/16/2009 9:23:26 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
I just read an article in Guns & Ammo Book of the AR-15 that says Sabre Defence has been awarded a small production run of M16A4 rifles for the USN and USMC. "Sabre was recently awarded a contract to produce more than 5,500 M16A4 rifles to support the U.S. Navy, Marine Corps and several foreign military customers. Nine bids were received, with Sabre being only the third company in the 45-year history - besides Colt and FN - to be awarded a contract to supply a mil spec M16 to the government - no small accomplishment, to be sure". The author is Pat Cascio and its on page 124 for anyone interested. True, the news has been out for a while. I'm not sure about their claim that it's only the 3rd Company. Hydramatic Division of GM and Harrington and Richardson made M-16s during the Vietnam War also. |
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Posted: 12/16/2009 9:25:01 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
This may seem like a silly question but what, exactly, is our standard service rifle? A2, M4, and what is an M16A4? regards, Ralph M16A4 is a FA rifle with a flatop receiver and has the BUIS. The FN builds for the Navy are coming in with rail system handguards. |
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Posted: 12/16/2009 9:28:49 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
This may seem like a silly question but what, exactly, is our standard service rifle? A2, M4, and what is an M16A4? regards, Ralph M16A4 is the same as an M16A2 but with a flattop upper. KAC M5 RAS usually attached in place of the standard handguard http://www.colt.com/mil/M16.asp For the A2, the Army went to 3rd burst while the A4 is FA. |
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Posted: 12/16/2009 9:33:38 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This may seem like a silly question but what, exactly, is our standard service rifle? A2, M4, and what is an M16A4? regards, Ralph M16A4 is the same as an M16A2 but with a flattop upper. KAC M5 RAS usually attached in place of the standard handguard http://www.colt.com/mil/M16.asp For the A2, the Army went to 3rd burst while the A4 is FA. No, it's actually the M16A3 which is full auto, The A4 is basically an A2(3 round burst) with a flattop upper. http://guns.wikia.com/wiki/Colt_M16A3 http://www.colt.com/mil/M16.asp |
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Posted: 12/16/2009 10:14:44 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This may seem like a silly question but what, exactly, is our standard service rifle? A2, M4, and what is an M16A4? regards, Ralph M16A4 is the same as an M16A2 but with a flattop upper. KAC M5 RAS usually attached in place of the standard handguard http://www.colt.com/mil/M16.asp For the A2, the Army went to 3rd burst while the A4 is FA. The A4 is not FA |
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Posted: 12/16/2009 10:16:03 AM EDT
[#37]
*****
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Posted: 12/16/2009 11:18:42 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Colt supplies the M4s/M16s and they get their barrels from Green Mountain Barrel Co.
So why stamp a barrel C MP if it's made by Green Mountain? What about FN M16A2s, Or going back further, the GM Hydromatic M16A1 that still has converted A2 models in active duty arms rooms? Not sure if this got answered. I didn't see it, but could have missed it in all the flak. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that C MP stamped on a barrel means its made from Chrome-moly steel, and Micro Particle inspected. This is not to be confused with Chrome Lined, which, in my experience, have been marked with CL. Now, that's not definitive. Different manufacturers can stamp their barrels differently. Just trying to point out that the C doesn't necessarily mean Colt. -Ty |
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Posted: 12/16/2009 11:23:20 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
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Who makes the m14 that is in use? SA? . They were all made before most othe memebers of this board were born. Springfield Armrory (the real one in Mass - not the pouser company that makes the M1A), H&R and IIRC Winchester made them. Some have been reworked by Crane or other High Power Competition related firms (that still have expertise in that obsolete platform). TRW, Thompson-Ramo-Wooldridge also made M14s I was not only born when the M-14 was made, it was my duty rifle in South East Asia. (aka Viet Nam) in 1968. I recall some were TRW's Here is a bit of info: The T44 competed successfully against the T47 (a modified T25) and the FN FAL (T48). This led to the T44's adoption by the U.S. military as the M14 in 1957. Springfield Armory began tooling a new production line in 1958 and delivered the first service rifles to the U.S. Army in July 1959. However, long production delays resulted in the 101st Airborne Division being the only unit in the Army fully equipped with the M14 by the end of 1961. The Fleet Marine Force finally completed the change from M1 Garand to M14 in late 1962. Springfield Armory records reflect that M14 manufacture ended as TRW, fulfilling its second contract, delivered its final production increment in Fiscal Year 1965 (1July '64 - 30June '65). The Springfield archive also indicates the 1.38 million rifles were acquired for just over $143 million, for a unit cost of about $104.[ Go read this for a good history and some facts and figures. Note that the M14 is STILL IN USE in the US military. There is always a place for a .30 Cal. weapon that packs a good punch and is reliable. M14 History |
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Posted: 12/16/2009 11:36:09 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Who makes the m14 that is in use? SA? . They were all made before most othe memebers of this board were born. Springfield Armrory (the real one in Mass - not the pouser company that makes the M1A), H&R and IIRC Winchester made them. Some have been reworked by Crane or other High Power Competition related firms (that still have expertise in that obsolete platform). TRW, Thompson-Ramo-Wooldridge also made M14s I was not only born when the M-14 was made, it was my duty rifle in South East Asia. (aka Viet Nam) in 1968. I recall some were TRW's Here is a bit of info: The T44 competed successfully against the T47 (a modified T25) and the FN FAL (T48). This led to the T44's adoption by the U.S. military as the M14 in 1957. Springfield Armory began tooling a new production line in 1958 and delivered the first service rifles to the U.S. Army in July 1959. However, long production delays resulted in the 101st Airborne Division being the only unit in the Army fully equipped with the M14 by the end of 1961. The Fleet Marine Force finally completed the change from M1 Garand to M14 in late 1962. Springfield Armory records reflect that M14 manufacture ended as TRW, fulfilling its second contract, delivered its final production increment in Fiscal Year 1965 (1July '64 - 30June '65). The Springfield archive also indicates the 1.38 million rifles were acquired for just over $143 million, for a unit cost of about $104.[ Go read this for a good history and some facts and figures. Note that the M14 is STILL IN USE in the US military. There is always a place for a .30 Cal. weapon that packs a good punch and is reliable. M14 History Too bad you can't buy one from the CMP 
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Posted: 12/16/2009 11:48:28 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Colt supplies the M4s/M16s and they get their barrels from Green Mountain Barrel Co.
So why stamp a barrel C MP if it's made by Green Mountain? What about FN M16A2s, Or going back further, the GM Hydromatic M16A1 that still has converted A2 models in active duty arms rooms? Not sure if this got answered. I didn't see it, but could have missed it in all the flak. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that C MP stamped on a barrel means its made from Chrome-moly steel, and Micro Particle inspected. This is not to be confused with Chrome Lined, which, in my experience, have been marked with CL. Now, that's not definitive. Different manufacturers can stamp their barrels differently. Nope Just trying to point out that the C doesn't necessarily mean Colt. -Ty Except that it does. C = Colt B = Bushmaster F = FN IIRC There are others. MP = "Magnetic Particle Inspected" + "Proof tested" Those marks mean things. There was only a very short time in the 60s when 'C' meant 'chromed chamber' and CB meant 'chromed bore & chamber' (and at that time Colt was the only one producing barrels for M16s). |
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Posted: 12/16/2009 11:50:53 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
I just read an article in Guns & Ammo Book of the AR-15 that says Sabre Defence has been awarded a small production run of M16A4 rifles for the USN and USMC. "Sabre was recently awarded a contract to produce more than 5,500 M16A4 rifles to support the U.S. Navy, Marine Corps and several foreign military customers. Nine bids were received, with Sabre being only the third company in the 45-year history - besides Colt and FN - to be awarded a contract to supply a mil spec M16 to the government - no small accomplishment, to be sure". The author is Pat Cascio and its on page 124 for anyone interested. He neglected to point out that contract orginally went to Bushmaster, and was later pulled when they were bought out by Cebres (sp?) because BM no longer qualified for the 'small business set aside' the contract was orginally put out under. AFAIK Sabre has yet to have a rifle accepted by Govt inspectors. |
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