Originally Posted By GrumpyM4:
The addition of an O ring or D ring does not negitivly impact any "parameter" of the function of the system in a way that could cause extraction issues.
Extractor tension is indeed a parameter that quite directly relates to the function of an AR. It seems that this would be patently obvious....
The whole point of adding a ring of any sort or an upgraded spring is to place added preassure on the extractor to ensure that there is no extractor lift during the extraction phase of operation.
The ONLY way this could negativly impact your firearm is if you made it so strong that the extractor did not snap over the rim of the cartridge during the chambering phase of operation. If this is an issue, perhaps you need to look at either your buffer weight or your buffer spring.
Techincally, no, the tension on the extractor could work against the tension on the ejector spring (I say this from a mechnaical point of view, and not an experiental one...).
And yes, you're correct that buffer/buffer spring issues also effect the function of the weapon.
Quite frankly, if you're buying equipment that is sold as "extra power" and then "quickly drops down to within design parameters.", i'd be asking for a refund. The whole point of buying these things is to place, and then maintain EXTRA FORCE upon a function of the firearm. If it quickly goes away, then what's the point?
You've completely misunderstood what I said.
The spring, by the very nature of being a spring, will have a 'break in' period in which its tension decreases. All springs, by nature, have this. Period. The only way to avoid this is to make this break-in part of the manufacturing process, which could be done by pre-loading the apring at the fatctry - which would easily double the cost of the spring. When thias spring - as any spring will do - is finished breaking in, it still has 'extra power' compared to a standard spring.
And by the way, what are the "design perameters" of the extractor? What's the "minimum" spring weight and what's the "max" weight? Exactly how much force does an O ring or a D ring add to that? Since you bring up the "design perameters", i'd like to know what they are.
I don't know what they are - but you're being ridiculous if you say they don't exist. An AR works according to principles of physics, not magic. Springs have tension, that tension is exerted on the parts the work with, and so on......this isn't rocket surgery, y'know....
To answer your question, I use the same springs and inserts that come with the gear (CMT and Fulton Armory), and I replace with factory replacements. No wolff gear, no extra heavy duty springs, etc. Just factory springs, inserts, and a cheap assed O ring (with no warranty I might add), and my guns run perfectly. Even when beat on, dirty as shit (with real dirt too, not just carbon buildup!).
So did mine (4 of the 5 I have dealt with) but the extra insurance does not hurt anything; it can only help, as has been proven time and again.
At the end of the day, I can look at the logical aspects of a machine, the interaction between the parts, the hows and whys and easily surmise that if adding an extractor ring causes problems, there's other issues to look at because no extractor ring addition should cause problems, it should only help fix them.
It's a matter of 'too much of a good thing'.
I can add air to my tires to make them roll easier. I can also add too much and make them wear unevenly or blow out. The same principle applies here.
What you call "cheap insurance", I call causing excess wear on some part of your rifle to make up for something else being out of spec in the hopes that the system will just "wear" itself into working order.
The rifles I have (the 5 mentioned above), one runs an A2 stock setup, the others run carbine buffers and springs, high-quality bolts and barrels with properly drilled gas ports...I don't buy junk. They're perfectly in spec.....but the AR system was originally designed to function with a rifle-length gas system. Carbines and some midlengths, by necessity, needs ome adjustments made elsewhere in the system to offset the change in the parameters of the gas system itself. This isn't magic, this is simple engineering.
While this may work.....ish, it doesn't fix the original issue to begin with and i'd me more worried of that rifle failing when it was needed then a rifle that just worked regardless. To you, it may be "cheap insurance". To me it means I can't trust the gun because of latent issues.
In all honesty, I think you're missing the larger point here. Forcing a rilfe-designed spring/insert to work in a carbine system doesn't mean there's a 'latent issue' it just means that you're ignoring inherent differences in the designs.
I'm actually rather disturbed that someone takes such a view of this....it's not trickery or magic, it's just tweaking one part to accomodate tweaks in another part that deviate from the original design.