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JW1069
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Posted: 4/18/2009 12:59:29 AM
The scarcity of complete uppers coupled with my need to meet NY's AWB, has me thinking of building my next upper from the barrel up. Looking at either a 14.5" or 16" barrel, how would you rate the different barrels out there?

Build Info: I'd like to put together a rifle to be used at 10-300 yards for "tactical" engagements. This would be used as a go-to rifle for SD and in carbine classes; not for precision shooting competitions. Other furniture would likely include a DD Lite rail, VFG, light (no tape switches), fiip down sights, and (most likely) an ACOG. This upper will sit on a LMT lower...a very lonely and naked LMT lower right now.

I've heard names like Kreiger, Compass Lake, Denny's Operator, White Oaks, Noveske, etc. Let's hear how they stack up against one another!
smithc6
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Posted: 4/18/2009 1:02:04 AM
Originally Posted By JW1069:
The scarcity of complete uppers coupled with my need to meet NY's AWB, has me thinking of building my next upper from the barrel up. Looking at either a 14.5" or 16" barrel, how would you rate the different barrels out there?

Build Info: I'd like to put together a rifle to be used at 10-300 yards for "tactical" engagements. This would be used as a go-to rifle for SD and in carbine classes; not for precision shooting competitions. Other furniture would likely include a DD Lite rail, VFG, light (no tape switches), fiip down sights, and (most likely) an ACOG. This upper will sit on a LMT lower...a very lonely and naked LMT lower right now.

I've heard names like Kreiger, Compass Lake, Denny's Operator, White Oaks, Noveske, etc. Let's hear how they stack up against one another!


Noveske
js308
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Posted: 4/18/2009 1:09:14 AM
Noveske, LMT and Colt
12_gauge
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Posted: 4/18/2009 1:18:48 AM
[Last Edit: 4/18/2009 1:21:09 AM by 12_gauge]
One of the most distinguished marksman that I know claims that Satern is the best. I am sure he could profile the barrel for your application. Here is his message to me earlier today on this topic:

"after 5 years as a member of the USMC rifle team shooting competitively abroad and domestically, winning state championships and maintaining High Master status in Long Range category (1000 yd), and being Double Distinguished, may I offer my two cents on a good barrel? Satern!!! Steve Satern in Estherville Iowa is THE MAN. He makes the AMU and current USMC barrels. His barrels run circles around Shillen, Krieger, Douglas etc."-Kip Carrier
Every ripple has the potential to become a tidal wave.
ratfink57
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Posted: 4/18/2009 2:05:06 AM
[Last Edit: 4/18/2009 2:13:46 AM by ratfink57]
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:
One of the most distinguished marksman that I know claims that Satern is the best. I am sure he could profile the barrel for your application. Here is his message to me earlier today on this topic:

"after 5 years as a member of the USMC rifle team shooting competitively abroad and domestically, winning state championships and maintaining High Master status in Long Range category (1000 yd), and being Double Distinguished, may I offer my two cents on a good barrel? Satern!!! Steve Satern in Estherville Iowa is THE MAN. He makes the AMU and current USMC barrels. His barrels run circles around Shillen, Krieger, Douglas etc."-Kip Carrier


Good luck getting one. I heard of 1 year wait times on those before the post election madness started.

Edit;
Sabre makes good combat barrels, I would put them on par with Colt, LMT and Bravo Co. Noveske would be a step up from there.
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12_gauge
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Posted: 4/18/2009 2:20:16 AM
Originally Posted By ratfink57:
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:
One of the most distinguished marksman that I know claims that Satern is the best. I am sure he could profile the barrel for your application. Here is his message to me earlier today on this topic:

"after 5 years as a member of the USMC rifle team shooting competitively abroad and domestically, winning state championships and maintaining High Master status in Long Range category (1000 yd), and being Double Distinguished, may I offer my two cents on a good barrel? Satern!!! Steve Satern in Estherville Iowa is THE MAN. He makes the AMU and current USMC barrels. His barrels run circles around Shillen, Krieger, Douglas etc."-Kip Carrier


Good luck getting one. I heard of 1 year wait times on those before the post election madness started.


Edit;
Sabre makes good combat barrels, I would put them on par with Colt, LMT and Bravo Co. Noveske would be a step up from there.



I didn't know availability was an issue in the question. If the above poster wants a good barrel NOW, I would recommend the LT Stealth system that suits his needs as far as length/rail. Those are a matter of weeks.
Every ripple has the potential to become a tidal wave.
556Fundi
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Posted: 4/18/2009 2:46:57 AM
I was going to give my 2cents, but realize I have less than 1 cent to give so I will just say my exhaustive research with little AR experience led me to get a Noveske.
MisterWilson
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Posted: 4/18/2009 2:51:07 AM
Originally Posted By JW1069:
The scarcity of complete uppers coupled with my need to meet NY's AWB, has me thinking of building my next upper from the barrel up. Looking at either a 14.5" or 16" barrel, how would you rate the different barrels out there?

Build Info: I'd like to put together a rifle to be used at 10-300 yards for "tactical" engagements.


Serious question: What's the difference between "tactical" engagements versus the standard variety?
[NO TEXT]
arty6pd
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Posted: 4/18/2009 2:51:51 AM
[Last Edit: 4/18/2009 2:52:49 AM by arty6pd]
I was able to obtain a barrel! I have been completely happy with it so far.
" We only get the part of the story the media gives us anyway, so my opinion is as good as any"
12_gauge
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Posted: 4/18/2009 4:15:46 AM
Originally Posted By MisterWilson:
Originally Posted By JW1069:
The scarcity of complete uppers coupled with my need to meet NY's AWB, has me thinking of building my next upper from the barrel up. Looking at either a 14.5" or 16" barrel, how would you rate the different barrels out there?

Build Info: I'd like to put together a rifle to be used at 10-300 yards for "tactical" engagements.


Serious question: What's the difference between "tactical" engagements versus the standard variety?


Tactical engaguements involve the use of tactical gear. Standard engagements do not. I would think this would have been obvious?
Every ripple has the potential to become a tidal wave.
12_gauge
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Posted: 4/18/2009 4:16:17 AM
Originally Posted By arty6pd:
I was able to obtain a barrel! I have been completely happy with it so far.


Why, pray tell, what barrel was it that you obtained?
Every ripple has the potential to become a tidal wave.
dmhays
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Posted: 4/18/2009 4:25:22 AM
Noveske ftw
DonnieBrasco
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Posted: 4/18/2009 4:26:43 AM

Originally Posted By MisterWilson:
Originally Posted By JW1069:
The scarcity of complete uppers coupled with my need to meet NY's AWB, has me thinking of building my next upper from the barrel up. Looking at either a 14.5" or 16" barrel, how would you rate the different barrels out there?

Build Info: I'd like to put together a rifle to be used at 10-300 yards for "tactical" engagements.


Serious question: What's the difference between "tactical" engagements versus the standard variety?
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noveske18
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Posted: 4/18/2009 5:48:28 AM
Originally Posted By dmhays:
Noveske ftw


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M4builder
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Posted: 4/18/2009 7:50:45 AM
Noveske will be the best for your build. The N4 barrels specifically.
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jh901
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Posted: 4/18/2009 8:08:44 AM
add BCM to this list.....

Originally Posted By js308:
Noveske, LMT and Colt


proguide
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Posted: 4/18/2009 9:00:54 AM
Originally Posted By js308:
Noveske, LMT and Colt


This is pretty much the standard answer that you will get here.
chadwick76
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Posted: 4/18/2009 9:07:48 AM
noveske
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Posted: 4/18/2009 9:32:15 AM
Originally Posted By M4builder:
Noveske will be the best for your build. The N4 barrels specifically.


I've only been involved with ARs for a short while, but have never seen Noveske's N4 barrels offered individually. Does anyone know if they are generally sold separately and not only in complete upper builds?

You might also want to consider the mid-length Hard Blue ones that Superior offers. I have a 16" and have found it to be a pretty kick ass barrel.
Geohans
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Posted: 4/18/2009 9:48:56 AM
Wes at MSTN will build to suit; he often has the Noveske barrels.
SpecWarCom
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Posted: 4/18/2009 10:18:26 AM
[Last Edit: 4/18/2009 10:21:59 AM by SpecWarCom]
Compass Lake, Douglas, or Lilja in no particular order. I like shorter Lilja barrels, and the longer Compass Lake/Douglas barrels for SPRs.

My .02.

-Glenn

ETA: What kind of ammo will you be shooting? If you're not shooting good stuff like Black Hills Sierra 77gr, Mk 262, etc and only running shit like M193, Wolf, M855, you're not going to need a badass barrel and you'd be wasting your money. Your barrel is only going to shoot as good as the ammo you're running through it.

On a carbine length like you want - get a good Colt/Noveske/Sabre barrel and it'll definitely do what you ask of it. If you were running your gun out to 5-6-700 meters on an dedicated intermediate range platform, I'd recommend a higher class barrel, but those will defintiely do what you want them to do.
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Posted: 4/18/2009 11:21:43 AM
Originally Posted By SpecWarCom:
Compass Lake, Douglas, or Lilja in no particular order. I like shorter Lilja barrels, and the longer Compass Lake/Douglas barrels for SPRs.

My .02.

-Glenn

ETA: What kind of ammo will you be shooting? If you're not shooting good stuff like Black Hills Sierra 77gr, Mk 262, etc and only running shit like M193, Wolf, M855, you're not going to need a badass barrel and you'd be wasting your money. Your barrel is only going to shoot as good as the ammo you're running through it.

On a carbine length like you want - get a good Colt/Noveske/Sabre barrel and it'll definitely do what you ask of it. If you were running your gun out to 5-6-700 meters on an dedicated intermediate range platform, I'd recommend a higher class barrel, but those will defintiely do what you want them to do.


This is the reply you need to pay attention to, what ammo are you going to use? Is the barrel going to be used as a survival, defense, shtf, plinking or target? If your planning on using it as target rifle with match rounds, you will want to go stainless, if its going to be the shtf, rifle go chrome lined, save your money you would spend on Noveske and get a good, BCM, Sabre, Colt, LMT and use your savings for better optics.
Noveskes are good but dont get trapped in the Noveske Kool Aid, they are over priced and most shooters cant use what a top tier mfg barrel is capable of anyway, now if you want to ignore the Noveske advice you also gain bragging rights to some.
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DallasLooterShooter
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Posted: 4/18/2009 11:28:46 AM
I bought a Model 1 Sales upper with an ER Shaw barrel. It has performed very well up to 300 yards. Using only an Aimpoint I could consistently hit a target (both stationary and moving) that was 12" wide by 24" tall. My barrel is 10.25". I paid $350 for the upper without BCG/CH. That is about the same price as some of these companies want for JUST the barrel.

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arty6pd
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Posted: 4/18/2009 12:07:57 PM
[Last Edit: 4/18/2009 12:17:00 PM by arty6pd]
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:
Originally Posted By arty6pd:
I was able to obtain a barrel! I have been completely happy with it so far.


Why, pray tell, what barrel was it that you obtained?


Im not sure the geneology of this barrel but it shoots very fine for a 16" carbine. Im happy with 2" groups with my milspec velocity reloads. I can find no markings on it but the bore is bright, the finish is an excellent match with the upper and the lower. The rifling is still there after approximately 200 rounds. I consider this a definite plus along with the fact that it is in m4 configuration! I bought it on the local classified adds for a grand sum of $179.00. It appears brand spanking new too.
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JW1069
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Posted: 4/18/2009 5:57:49 PM
[Last Edit: 4/18/2009 6:00:09 PM by JW1069]
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:
Originally Posted By MisterWilson:
Originally Posted By JW1069:
The scarcity of complete uppers coupled with my need to meet NY's AWB, has me thinking of building my next upper from the barrel up. Looking at either a 14.5" or 16" barrel, how would you rate the different barrels out there?

Build Info: I'd like to put together a rifle to be used at 10-300 yards for "tactical" engagements.


Serious question: What's the difference between "tactical" engagements versus the standard variety?


Tactical engaguements involve the use of tactical gear. Standard engagements do not. I would think this would have been obvious?


Just trying to convey that I'm not going to be sitting at a bench taking 5 minutes between each shot. I'm going to use this rifle for active range sessions (ie, using multiple shooting positions), carbine classes, and SD - not bullseye shooting competitions. Hope that answers your question.

Compass Lake, Douglas, or Lilja in no particular order. I like shorter Lilja barrels, and the longer Compass Lake/Douglas barrels for SPRs.

My .02.

-Glenn

ETA: What kind of ammo will you be shooting? If you're not shooting good stuff like Black Hills Sierra 77gr, Mk 262, etc and only running shit like M193, Wolf, M855, you're not going to need a badass barrel and you'd be wasting your money. Your barrel is only going to shoot as good as the ammo you're running through it.

On a carbine length like you want - get a good Colt/Noveske/Sabre barrel and it'll definitely do what you ask of it. If you were running your gun out to 5-6-700 meters on an dedicated intermediate range platform, I'd recommend a higher class barrel, but those will defintiely do what you want them to do.


Right now, I'm shooting XM193 and M855...no Wolf or other crap, just brass. I will likely add the Black Hills 77 gr into the mix since it would be combined with a magnified optic (I'm only using RDS currently). My local range only runs out to 300 yards, so I wouldn't be able to tap into the potential of say an 18" high end SPR barrel.

I completely agree with not overspending for "the best" barrel if I'm not going to maximize its potential. I'm trying to get a sense of how the different barrels stack up wth one another, then see what's in stock or could be ordered in a reasonalbe timeframe. Obviously, I'll have to hunt around no matter which barrel I'm looking for. At this point, I'm looking to stretch my options beyond the complete uppers offered by LMT or Noveske for the simple fact that (a) I can't find one in stock, and (b) I'll need to have a FSC556 pinned on it.


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Posted: 4/18/2009 6:30:08 PM
IMO from PERSONAL experience, and in no particular order.

Noveske
LaRue
Knights Armament Co
LMT

I've not used each in the same situation but for the various application, each has been TOPS.


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