I always wanted to tell them, let put a round in the chamber, point it at you, pull the trigger and if it doesn't go off then yes its dirty

Just finished my 20". I am on the fence right now if I want to get a KAC M5 rail for it or not?





 

S
Get it.

Dan

You know you need one.

Do it.

I finished up my upper today - its got an FN upper, barrel and BCG. Now I'm just waiting on my lower to come back from the anodizer.

Very nice  Here are two potato pics of my A4 clone.  I'll try to get a hold of a real camera for some better pics and will post soon.

the OP should contain what makes a correct AR15A4 clone like the cool kid clone threads.

Minus an ACOG (for now), I have everything on the way to put together an A4 clone within the next week.  

[/URL]

A 20" rifle with a detachable carry handle

One could probably write a fair sized book on all the changes that have been made to the M16A4 as a weapon system over time, so you can understand that it's somewhat difficult to do a write up to the effect of: "This is what constitutes an M16A4 clone..."

I sure someone will be along shortly to either refute or amend some of this, as I'm far from what I would consider to be a subject matter expert on it all, though I'll give it a try...

In regards to the M16A4, I generally view the weapon as having 3 distinct eras: "Early A4s", "The War Years" (to include US Army & Marine Corps variants), & "Modern Era A4s".


Early 'A4s...(July '97 - Sep '99)

Officially, the M16A4 was adopted on July 29th, 1997, to replace the M16A2 as the standard-issue rifle for both the U.S Army & the US Marine Corps. While there were prototypes rifles (XM16A2E4s) in use on dates before July of '97, their features (grey anodizing or such) are not generally considered when discussing "Early A4" clones.

Early M16A4s are noted by their use of:

M16A2 barrel assemblies (having rifle feed ramped barrel extensions & fixed carry-handle height front sight bases)
Non-"M" or "M4" marked flat-top upper receivers (these early A4 upper receivers did NOT have M4 Feed ramps)
They used peel-washers to time their flash suppressors during most of this period.
Most were delivered to their respective services equipped with standard ("shiny-surfaced") A2 hand guards.
They were delivered with standard detachable carry handle rear sights.
They all used metal trap doors in their A2 stock end plates.
Their safety selectors, while having a "tick" to indicate the mode of operation, were only single-sided (no ambidextrous safeties were in use) & the "lever" itself extended from the edge of the safety rather than from the middle as currently issued ones do.
Their A2 pistol grips also tended to be of a "shinier" black material & the bottom forward "bump" was not as pronounced as currently issued ones (it incorporated a smoother transition to the tip).
While the Parkerizing of the various steel components (Components like the barrel, hand guard retainer cap, flash suppressor, forward assist, rear sights on the detachable carry handle, ect.) were more "grey" in color than they were "black", the upper & lower receivers after the adoption date were anodized to a Type II (black) hard-coat specification. (Someone more knowledgeable than me may know if there were ever actually any "M16A4"s with "grey" receivers, though I know of none that were officially labeled as such.)  
Early A4s were known to have used either the US M7, or US M9 bayonet (with early straight tube-style grip).
Sling-use varied between: standard M1-style sling or black A2 "silent" sling, though by sometime @ early '98?, various 3-point slings started showing up in use.
As for side-sling swivels, I'm not certain if it was only a Colt thing or what, but seems like some rifles had them, and others didn't. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in on this.

(Starting @ Oct '98? - early '99?)
A4s started showing up either equipped with, or were modified by the addition of, a KAC M5 Rail Adapter System (RAS).
These early drop-in rails tended to be more "purple" than "black" in color.

(For a short time between Oct '99 to @ early 2003(ish?))
ARMS #59M SIR systems would be seen to be installed on select units' M16A4s.


What I like to call...
"The War Years"...doesn't have so much to do with any particular "war" per se, but is basically from @ 2000 - 2010(ish)

These M16A4s are noted by their use of:

True A4 barrel assemblies having "M4" feed ramped barrel extensions & "F"-marked (detachable carry handle height) front sight bases.
Flat top "M" or "M4" marked upper receivers incorporating "M4" feed ramps.
They used "crush" washers to time their flash suppressors.
Their A2 pistol grips, while still incorporating the earlier tapering of the bottom "bump", were made of a notably less-shiny material.
The steel components (barrel, HG end caps, triggers, ect.) began having more of a true "black" coloring due to changes made in the surface-treatment procedures.
These rifles began being delivered with KAC (or later, P&S Products) M5 rail adapter systems pre-installed from the factory.
They still incorporated metal (aluminum) trap door assembles in their A2 stocks, though the stock-body materials began being produced in a slightly more "grey" color, than the deeper "black" color of earlier models.
Sometime during the later part of this era (@ 2009ish?) ambidextrous safeties started showing up occasionally in use.
Detachable carry handles began to be phased out of deliveries (or packaged separately with the weapon) as A4s began to be shipped out with either no rear iron sights or had Matech back up rear iron sights equipped... Also, KAC 600m? sights were occasionally (though rarely) seen to be used rather than the Matechs during this time period. (May have been KAC 800m sights - my memory is somewhat hazy in this regard)
These rifles were often seen using Surefire M95 & M96-series weapon lights (M951/M952 or M961/M962 models both with & without the use of tape switches) The earliest ones had "wide" bodies (thicker) & "ribbed" head assemblies. Later ones used thinner bodies & had smooth head assemblies. These changes were made in an effort to lighten the accessory weight-wise, at the expense of heat dissipation.
Depending on the AO - Buttstock magazine pouches were often used during this time period. Most were seen to be black in color, though occasionally other color variants like olive drab or camo-patterned colors were used.
Sling use varied dramatically during this period, though most were seen to be of the 3-point type design, usually black in color, though like the stock pouches, were occasionally seen in other color variants. Near the latter part of this period (late 2006ish?), Blue Force Gear 2-point slings began to be seen occasionally in use on A4s.
Also, during this period, many of the standard 30rd magazines with field units were upgraded by the use of Magpul "anti-tilt" followers. Later (circa 2009), the military began procuring their own version of this follower for use in all their future magazine purchases.

US Army variants tended to use Aimpoint M68 red dot sights (Comp M2 earlier, or Comp M3.. maybe Comp M4 for very late models? - I'm not sure exactly when the Comp M4 & M4s models actually started making the rounds)
Us Army variants were also noted to still be using either US M7 or M9 bayonets.

Marine Corps variants usually were noted to be using a Trijicon scope (TA01NSN & TA31-F? models earlier, & TA31RCOA4 models later)
The original TA51 mounts on these optics were at first shipped with knobs facing toward the left side of the weapon. Later this was changed to have the knobs of the TA51 mount face toward the right side. (or was it the other way around?...I can't recall now.)
The Marines started using the OKC3S bayonet with this rifle from @ 2003 onward.


Modern Era M16A4s (Circa 2011(ish) to Present)

These M16A4s are noted by their use of the following:

Their A2 pistol grips have a distinctive "shelf-like" tapering of the bottom "bump" of the grip, as well as a squared-off taper to the top side profile of the grip. Furthermore, these grips tend to be lighter black in color, nearing closer to a "grey-scale" than "black" and have a flat, non-reflective surface finish.
They use one of 3 different types of safeties - The first being like the older format (War Years) safety except that it is reversible for use with South-Paws, the second is an ambidextrous safety that has a shortened lever on the non-dominant (non-thumb) side, and the 3rd is non-ambidextrous safety though the "lever" extends from the center of the safety rather than from the edge of the safety as those of the previous eras.
The trap doors of the A2 stock assemblies, while still using metal retaining latches, are occasionally found to have plastic door bodies rather than the metal (aluminum) bodies of previous eras. (Though I'm not sure if this is an actual change to the A4 specification, or rather some type of screw-up in the supply chain.)
These rifles are delivered with either Matech or KAC rear sights equipped, rather than with detachable carry handles.
They are often seen equipped with either black or coyote colored Blue Force Gear NSN Vickers 2-point slings & mounts, though M1 slings are occasionally seen in use for "parade" or "training" purposes/exercises.
These rifles are almost exclusively used with either the Trijicon TA31RCOA4 scope (for the US Marines), or the Aimpoint M68 (COMP M4 & M4S) red dot sights (for the US Army).
The TA51 mounts used with the Trijicon scopes were, or rather ...are, commonly replaced with LaRue Tactical quick release lever mounts.
As of this posting, I believe there are no longer any A4s that are still equipped with standard A2 hand guards. They should all be equipped with KAC M5 drop-in rails. (That I know of)
Right around this time frame (2010ish), LED lighting began to really make itself known in the weapon light industry, and as such - M16A4s began to be seen with Surefire M952V LED/Infrared convertible weapon lights, or Surefire M600v? LED "Scout" weapon lights in use. (Not sure of the actual Scout model number, though I believe it was in the 600-type series)

Because of the often rapid, constantly changing nature of the use & development of night vision accessories & laser sighting equipment, I have purposefully not touched upon their use with the M16A4 in this posting, and shall leave that to the AR15 community's more knowledgeable fellows to expound upon.

On a side note:
Throughout the last two eras (War Years & Modern), there have been a number of "Field Modifications" (some "approved" & others ...not-so-much) to the M16A4 weapon system. One such modification, has been the replacement of the Standard A2 stock assembly with a collapsible one such as the Lewis Machine & Tool Company (or also B5 Systems) SOPMOD Stock, or the Veltor "A5" stock assembly. While these "Mods" may have been approved for temporary "fielded" use, while so modified, these weapons are generally no longer considered to be classed among other "M16A4s", but rather among the status of "Special Weapons" or unofficially as "M16A5s". Because these weapons (as modified) no longer fit either the physical description or technical specifications of that of an M16A4, clones which are based around these modifications are generally not considered to be among M16A4 "clones".

Maybe later I will go back through this adding a few relevant pictures, but I think this is about the best I can come up with at present, and hopefully it will be enough to help you to sort things out...


Mike (FlDiveCop71)


ETA: This write up, while general in nature, primarily refers to completed M16A4 weapons' configurations as they were delivered to the US military @ the timeframes mentioned, and should not be construed as absolutes as to actual configurations that may be found in the field, either presently or at the aforementioned time periods. While the military supply system may continue to provide newly manufactured components built to outdated specifications, these items are primarily intended & supplied as "replacement" components for older weapons, rather than as revisionary components for newly issued M16A4s. Though some mention is made as to various options & accessories used in association with the M16A4 throughout these periods, please note that these comments are by no means the end-all / be-all of what was either available for use, or actually issued to the troops, but rather that which has been either known personally, or shown through reliable sources to have been used @ these periods. ...FDC71.

Good write up Mike, but there are always exceptions.  I just received 3ea M16A4 upper receivers (go back one page to see) that are dated 10/05 and 06/14 and produced by FN.  All three have rifle feed ramps with no markings on above the gas tube port.  Never did get the 3 M16A4 bbls I requested so the got A2 bbls (non F marked FSB and rifle cuts on barrel extensions).  M5 RAS that I received were KAC uppers and P&S lower halfs.  I installed side sling swivel mounts to the FSB.  I give the shooter his choice of either MaTech or KAC 600m BUIS, as I have both to issue.  Starting to see more active duty Army units going north with M16A2s and M16A4s this year then last where very few M16s were seen.  M16A2 are usually slicked topped (ie no optics) 50/50 round/RAS handguards where the M16A4s all have RAS and an optic.


CD

I saw a lot of Army units (3ID/4ID) ~2006 in country that swapped their fixed stocks out for collapsible stocks. Like, entire battalions worth of joes.

I have a mag pouch and sling coming in tomorrow, but got my rail installed yesterday so I can finally claim it's starting to turn into an A4 clone.

I hate all of you. I am going to have to add the KAC rail now, but itd going to have to wait a little bit because the upper was sent back because of a badly canted front sight/gas block.

Yep, guy on the EE right now selling them in new condition for $117.

Awesome write up! Thanks!

Got the Vickers sling and a spectre mag pouch in today.

Might take the mag pouch back off.  I know it's good for clones, but the whole "can't shoot right handed because the effing magazine pouch is in the way" thing is pretty annoying.

Also, I have no idea what I'm doing mounting the sling, obviously.  

I've got one of those Specter Gear pouches just like that and I don't use it. It is really annoying.

It now resides on the buttstock of my Browning 12 gauge BPS where it holds a box of 00 buck..

one of the only reasons I know people actually ran the buttstock mag was because we were required to have a magazine with us on the FOB at all times and it was more comfortable than carrying it in your pocket. Most of us ended up just getting a single mag pouch for our riggers belts to satiate the chow hall guards.

Very nice! those are some clean rifles.

So - about those Stock Mag Pouches...

One of the more frustrating things when dealing with stock pouches, is trying to figure out how best to make one of these:

Attached File


...Work with one of these:



...In such a way that you can still easily access one of these:



Thankfully, there's a cheap, easy to install (No sewing required), surprisingly effective to use, non-invasive (doesn't adversely impact associated components) tip / trick / instructable that I learned from a Marine Reservist about a year ago that can be applied to solve this problem, and if necessary - just as easily undone so as to be "as if it never happened" should such a need ever arise...and all that is required is some of this:



which can be purchased at any local walmart for @ $5. It can even be purchased in tan if need be...

Walmart Tan Velcro Roll

...though I used black, which works just as well. Here's what it looks like when it's all done:

Attached File

Attached File

Attached File


And for those that may be wondering - this is how the front of the sling is attached to the rail:
Attached File


Instructions:

Here's what you'll need...

Three sections of Velcro One-roll tape:
1 section being at least 6.5 inches long (You will cut off any excess that is longer than @ 6.25 inches)
1 section that is at least 8.5 inches long (You will cut off any excess that is over roughly 8.25 inches)
& 1 small section that is basically 1 inch long.

Attached File


(These instructions are for a Right-hand shooting set-up... A Left-hand setup would, for the most part, mirror-image these instructions...)

First we start by setting the front strap of the pouch in position - This is for a right-hand shooter - note the slip buckle is positioned as close to the over-loop as possible, this makes for a more comfortable shooting position (cheek rest).
Attached File

Now that the front strap is positioned, you may want to insert an empty mag into the pouch. (some find it easier to install with a mag inserted)
Attached File

Now we attach the longer ~8 inch strip of Velcro to the pouch side of the BFG adapter...(right side of this picture points toward the front of the weapon)
It is placed about 3/4 of the way to the top from the sling swivel bracket to where the adapter tightens down. Note where the smallest strip of Velcro is placed for reference...
Attached File

now fold the long Velcro strip around the adapter so that the small section of Velcro ends up in this position: (right side of this photo now represents the back end of the weapon)
Attached File

Now place the adapter onto the stock pouch like so...(Note that the smallest Velcro strip is used to fill the gap between the fold-over tabs of the stock pouch - this prevents the mag pouch from moving around vertically once the pouch is installed)
Attached File

Once the adapter is in place, close the fold over tabs of the stock pouch onto the adapter...
Attached File

Now for the ~6 inch Velcro strip - Place it into position: (Left side of this picture represent the muzzle end of the weapon.)
Attached File

Now fold the ~6 inch strip around the adapter to this position... (right hand side of the photo represents the back end of the weapon)
Attached File

Now hook the sling lock of the adapter into the sling loop on the stock:
Attached File

Next pull the top of the adapter over the upper end of the stock and tighten the adapter assembly down snug onto the stock:
Note that the "fuzzy" side of the Velcro strips are located on the outside of the stock assembly...
Attached File

You may have to adjust one of the Velcro strips vertically in order to get them to line up once the adapter is tightened down. This can be accomplished by undoing the rear & sliding the long strap vertically as necessary.
Attached File

Now loop the front pouch strap around the stock & through the slip loop...
Attached File

...& tightly strap it closed:
Attached File

Now close the two aft Velcro strips by placing the shorter strip down first & then the longer one down on top of it:
Attached File


Congratulations.. Mission accomplished...
Attached File

Now go get the rest of your build on...

FlDiveCop71

Makes sense, thanks for the explanation.

I can see why it would be unpopular for combat use, but my most likely use of the rifle is going to be on the tractor or truck on the ranch as a hog/just in case gun.  So for my use, there is some appeal in having a second magazine on the gun instead of on my person or thrown somewhere random in the vehicle.  Still haven't decided if I'm going to ditch it or not.

Well I ended up re-purposing my M16A2 lower half, and other parts, for my A4 build this weekend. I picked up a very worn FN barrel assembly and decided against having it reparked in favor of doing another BFPU project.

The lower is a McKay and also grabbed one of their used carry handles they have listed as 'ex-military'. It's an Archor Harvey forging along with the blem Aero Precision upper. Under the rail covers is a used M5 I picked up real cheap on the EE which has some nice wear on it as well from the previous owner. LPK is from WOA with a QMS trigger and the BCG is a Palmetto premium no logo. This was a budget minded build but still wanted to use quality parts. A SF sr07 will be going in the middle of the top rail.

I'm not quite satisfied with the wear. I think I took it a little too far in places but considering the barrel assembly has almost no finish left, I guess anything goes. My M16A1 BFPU turned out better. I think gray anodizing is more forgiving and easier to get varying shades. For me, at least with my technique, it's either all black or bare aluminum. I'll have to go over it again and try to smooth it out.

All in all, I freaking love this thing. It's heavy as shit but doesn't balance half bad with a full mag in the pouch. And don't feel bad about the ol' M16A2. I got it's new lower mostly put together. It will be shootable once the A2 stock body comes in and I order another QMS trigger and either a toolcraft or PSA BCG.

Also, total rookie oversight:  after assembly, I realized the barrel has rifle feed ramps and the upper has M4 cuts. Didn't affect the function test but I'll have to remedy that later.

Don't mean to clog up the post, but if anyone needs a base upper for a clone I have one for sale here for very cheap: http://www.gunauction.com/buy/13906564

whats those belts they are wearing now ? thanks

I hate this thread. I now have a new KAC RAS and a Spec-ops mag pouch. And nothing else yet.

I've never started a build from just a mag pouch.

Could be worse.  I started a build from just an OKC3S

That looks familiar

Im sure I've humped up that sonofabitch

Same here, I now have two KAC M5's and a sling adapter... Can't believe I started a rifle build with a sling adapter. I'm wanting to go Colt though so I can pair it with my M4ish clone, who knows when anyone will have them again though.

I started mine with just a carry handle that I bought with intentions of using it as a paperweight for my desk. It turned into a rifle.

Same thing happened to me before with a buffer tube and a2 stock.  Might as well get a $50 lower and $40 LPK right?

Next thing I know an upper appeared as well

(reply fail)

Eagle Industries Padded War Belt. We got em in just before i got out, they are ok, kinda thin on padding, but they did have suspender straps which was nice. I think you can find them on ebay as surplus now.

Pic thread

Here's my A4, I plan on painting this m5 but I have a nicer one on the way.

Holy purple! I wouldnt bother painting it. Ive seen worse anodized parts issued.

It's even purpleier in person!

I got it cheap because of the purple and scratches, figured I'd paint it tan or something. The other one coming should be black.

It seems like something's missing but I can't put my finger on it.

Are you going to paint to whole rifle or just the rails? I haven't seen many painted M16A4s.

thanks

I'll just be painting the rail since I'll have two. Haven't quite decided, maybe a distressed looking taupe or just dust it with tan from one angle. I got it cheap just to play with so who knows.

Well, my tax return finally kicked in, and I decided at long last to take the big plunge into getting my first (personally owned) ACOG setup for one of my A4 clones...

So the first thing I did was hop onto Larue Tactical's website & ordered an LT100 ACOG mount, which - after arriving - I realized was not quite the same as the mounts which were used on the A4s that I'd had experience with (The LT100 apparently has it's locking levers on the left-hand side, rather than on the right.)
Attached File

Guess that's what I get for rushing & not paying attention to all the little details - No problem though - I'll still use the LT100 on another rifle as they're all outstanding mounts - even if I do have to mount the thing backwards. (The locking lever is difficult to actually get "locked" when also mounting a back up iron sight, unless of course, you mount it with the levers facing backwards (levers facing toward the front of the rifle) :p

Still - I was feeling a little OCD at this point - thus I called up Larue, and after a brief conversation...placed another order for the proper mount - an LT622, which happily arrived just this morning, so now I'm one step closer to completing my modern era (2011(ish) to present) M16A4 clone.

(Turns out, you actually have to call Larue in order to purchase this particular mount as it's not publicized for sale through their web-store...)
Attached File

Underside view...
Attached File

Laser engraving detail...
Attached File

Here's a side-by-side of the two shown in the positions in which they are intended to be mounted...(top of the picture as if being toward the muzzle end of the rifle)
Attached File


Should be receiving the first ACOG I purchased sometime Wednesday. Can't wait...

Hmm...just realized my top of page post is still missing the instructions for the Velcro-Stockpouch-Adapter-Mod. I'll see about getting that fixed sometime tomorrow. My apologies to those who may have been waiting for them.  

FDC71

Is there an Equipment Exchange Facebook Page?  Can somebody add me to it?  I can send my info via IM.

That's really good info on the LT622 mount.  My A4 is stil wearing a carry handle until I can cough up the cash on the ACOG but when I do I'll be calling larue.

Added instructions to the top-of-page post...

Hope they are not too confusing for folks.

Enjoy

Thanks for the play by play.