User Panel
Posted: 6/23/2017 12:39:21 PM EDT
Got one of these one the way from psa, but got a little confused because its listed as phosphate barrel and then in the description it says nitride. I originally understood it to be nitride treated bore.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-300-aac-blackout-pistol-length-1-8-phosphate-13-5-lightweight-m-lok-freedom-rifle-kit-516445217.html |
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I read Phosphate 3 times, and then Nitride.
I am confused as well. I'd call PSA. |
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yep confusing. I will give them a call i guess. I found the same barrel on their site - the kit and bcg and stuff and it says nitride. I can probably tell by looking at it when it arrives, but would have liked to been straight on what i was getting up front.
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It cannot have just a nitride treated bore, it's all or nothing. I took it to mean it's a standard non chrome lined barrel..... till I also saw nitride.. Hmmmm
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Well guess i just have to wait and see. I guess if the exterior is nitride then its almost guaranteed the bore is lined, or does it Either way i will report back. I thought you could have one or the other not both.
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The stock pic looks to be a nitride finish bbl.
Nitride cannot be only inside or outside. As stated, it's either completely treated or it's not. It is not a coating, rather a treatment that penetrates into the parent metal. |
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Yep i was reading a little about the process some time back and turns the metallic surface harder. I understand it to be a total submersion type application.
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Nitride is an all in or all out deal. Basically it's a submersion surface treatment. Your barrel will either have a nitrided bore or it won't.
PSA is notorious about difficult to decipher info. You'd think they'd have some form of standardized info format since they sell a wide variety of products and "quality levels". My cynical side has wondered if it were intentionally confusing ... "no sir, you received what you ordered" |
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You're not buying psa for the dirty details, your buying it because it's a good deal.
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I believe its nitride. What appears to be the exact same barrel & upper - the build kit on their site says nitride. I will report back when i find out.
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Quoted:
I have a 16" PTAC M4 nitrided bbl, it surprised the hell out of me how well it shoots. Under $190 shipped for a barreled upper. We beat the shit out of it, zero issues. Shoots 4 moa with steel cased ammo easily. Great farm gun. View Quote |
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Man i always been scared of em the way guys dog em out. View Quote It would not be my go to, but I wouldn't be afraid to use it for most situations. |
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There is a reason PSA is one of the bigger companies in the country, I am just amazed that people buy consumer shit are so afraid of them, I have never had a bad product from them and thank god my wife does not know how much I have spent there!
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This is the reply i got from PSA
Hello, The bore is Nitride treated . The outside of the barrel is phosphated. Nitriding is a heat treating process that diffuses nitrogen into the surface of a metal to create a case-hardened surface. These processes are most commonly used on low-carbon, low-alloy steels. They are also used on medium and high-carbon steels, titanium, aluminium and molybdenum. Mag Phospate or manganese (not “magnesium”) phosphate is coating on the outside of the barrel using a sprayed or immersed salt bath to achieve a somewhat porous finish that then more readily accepts and holds some sort of lubrication to help prevent corrosion. Mag Phosphate is also called Parkerizing.? Thank you for choosing Palmetto State Armory. Best Regards, Palmetto State Armory Customer Service (803) 724-6950 [email protected] |
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Guess they can treat the bore to nitride then parker the outside! Well atleast according to the reply.
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Edited. Note to self, don't post in tech forums when you're hungover.
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Quoted:
This is the reply i got from PSA Hello, The bore is Nitride treated . The outside of the barrel is phosphated. Nitriding is a heat treating process that diffuses nitrogen into the surface of a metal to create a case-hardened surface. These processes are most commonly used on low-carbon, low-alloy steels. They are also used on medium and high-carbon steels, titanium, aluminium and molybdenum. Mag Phospate or manganese (not “magnesium”) phosphate is coating on the outside of the barrel using a sprayed or immersed salt bath to achieve a somewhat porous finish that then more readily accepts and holds some sort of lubrication to help prevent corrosion. Mag Phosphate is also called Parkerizing.? Thank you for choosing Palmetto State Armory. Best Regards, Palmetto State Armory Customer Service (803) 724-6950 [email protected] View Quote I guess you will be the first to know wtf you actually got. Post some pics, I'm curious as hell now. Eta: Nitride is considered a heat treat process. I did not know that. Ceracote can be applied over nitride, so maybe phosphate can also? But one thing is certain, if the bore is nitride, the whole bbl is. |
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Ok dumb questions but how do i identify if the bore has been treated with nitride vs just parker like the exterior supposedly is? Chrome is easy but nitride or tenifer or melonite in a bore? Got any tips?
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You sure? I went back and looked at the description and did find that.
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This (as far as I know) is the most widely used method for barrels. (Wikipedia)
*Salt bath nitriding In salt bath nitriding the nitrogen donating medium is a nitrogen-containing salt such as cyanide salt. The salts used also donate carbon to the workpiece surface making salt bath a nitrocarburizing process. The temperature used is typical of all nitrocarburizing processes: 550–570 °C. The advantages of salt nitriding is that it achieves higher diffusion in the same period time compared to any other method. The advantages of salt nitriding are: Quick processing time - usually in the order of 4 hours or so to achieveSimple operation - heat the salt and workpieces to temperature and submerge until the duration has transpired. The disadvantages are: The salts used are highly toxic - Disposal of salts are controlled by stringent environmental laws in western countries and has increased the costs involved in using salt baths. This is one of the most significant reasons the process has fallen out of favor in recent decades.Only one process possible with a particular salt type - since the nitrogen potential is set by the salt, only one type of process is possible |
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Quoted:
This is the reply i got from PSA Hello, The bore is Nitride treated . The outside of the barrel is phosphated. Nitriding is a heat treating process that diffuses nitrogen into the surface of a metal to create a case-hardened surface. These processes are most commonly used on low-carbon, low-alloy steels. They are also used on medium and high-carbon steels, titanium, aluminium and molybdenum. Mag Phospate or manganese (not “magnesium”) phosphate is coating on the outside of the barrel using a sprayed or immersed salt bath to achieve a somewhat porous finish that then more readily accepts and holds some sort of lubrication to help prevent corrosion. Mag Phosphate is also called Parkerizing.? Thank you for choosing Palmetto State Armory. Best Regards, Palmetto State Armory Customer Service (803) 724-6950 [email protected] View Quote |
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Well i guess pics are in order. I will post em up if UPS ever brings my shit. I doubt its both my bet is on nitride in and out.
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Well i got! Exterior is defiantly parker. The bore looks like it been shot down guess they have to proof them or something.
Iam looking down the bore I expexted it to be black in their like a glock, been t it aint. Looks rather shiny, but the light might just be glare. It dont looked lined with shit to me, but i dont know what too look for. Never examined a nitride barrel. Tips? |
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Well i got! Exterior is defiantly parker. The bore looks like it been shot down guess they have to proof them or something. Iam looking down the bore I expexted it to be black in their like a glock, been t it aint. Looks rather shiny, but the light might just be glare. It dont looked lined with shit to me, but i dont know what too look for. Never examined a nitride barrel. Tips? View Quote Throw some pics up? Clean the residue from test firing. You really cant see the black nitride very well. I am really curious, I have not seen a parked/nitride bbl.? |
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Cant get my damn pics to post of my phone! Guess I've been out smarted.
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Quoted:
Cant get my damn pics to post of my phone! Guess I've been out smarted. View Quote |
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Judging by pics, looks like a standard unlined/untreated phosphate bbl?
Pics of outside? Extension does not appear nitride? Again, going off of pics can be misleading |
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I think PSA has dooped me maybe. I felt it was a little misleading with the conflict of description and title. The label on the box has nothing indicated it to be treated, it doesn't appear to be treated, and even the psa response seemed strange.
I have never seen a parker exterior and nitride treated bore. Its either one or the other. I think Psa is confused on what they have. Not sure if i should be upset or not, but when you get the bait and switch pulled it pisses you off a tad. |
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I think it's more untrained CS answering the phones.
Like I said, Ceracote can be applied over a nitride finish, that much I know. Phosphate over nitride? I cannot say either way. I personally have not seen it. |
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Yep probably right about the CS. I believe it to be a plain 4150 cmv barrel. I believe i will contact them and explain that i believe the barrel info to be mixed up. They need to fix the item description. Just not sure if i could get it across to them. I will try maybe to post a few better pics and maybe get a few more opinions first.
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Nitrided barrel extension will look like this.If its not what you want, PSA will make it right.
Attached File |
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I've never ever heard of a Nitride bore/phosphate exterior and I'd be willing to bet they screwed up in the description.
It wouldn't even make sense not to gain the additional benefits of a Nitride exterior over a phosphate one, when Nitride is used. Now a number of manufacturers install the barrel extension after treatment and some don't. That bbl extension is not treated and comparing with my other bbl's, the bore doesn't look nitrided either (not positive based on the pic). |
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Quoted:
I've never ever heard of a Nitride bore/phosphate exterior and I'd be willing to bet they screwed up in the description. It wouldn't even make sense not to gain the additional benefits of a Nitride exterior over a phosphate one, when Nitride is used. Now a number of manufacturers install the barrel extension after treatment and some don't. That bbl extension is not treated and comparing with my other bbl's, the bore doesn't look nitrided either (not positive based on the pic). View Quote |
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You probably right, but damn you get a plan together order, begin to get excited about it, and then find out the crap aint what was advertised. It kinda deflates the excitement. Especially after you contact them because you are uncertain, and they falsley assure you.
Ok i will stop my damn whining now, and decided what i should do. Suggestions welcome! |
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You probably right, but damn you get a plan together order, begin to get excited about it, and then find out the crap aint what was advertised. It kinda deflates the excitement. Especially after you contact them because you are uncertain, and they falsley assure you. Ok i will stop my damn whining now, and decided what i should do. Suggestions welcome! View Quote I only ask because I have 4150 grade bbls without lining/treatment that are still running issue free after many rounds. What is the role for your build? If set on nitride, send her back. |
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Yes Sir, not a serious shooter just hunting and plinking. You are probably right i would never afford the ammo to shoot it loose, but its aggravating at least right now.
Then the laziness factor creeps in i like dang do i really want the hassle of it. Still think i will send and email chew on em a bit it probably make feel better. Last time i had to deal with PSA CS it was a beating and no one would answer the phone. Although that was a couple years back things may have changed. |
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Posting in their Industry forum will likely get things resolved quicker.
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Quoted:
Posting in their Industry forum will likely get things resolved quicker. View Quote Now regarding the extension pics, it is not melonited. Can't have it in the bore and not externally, that doesn't even make sense for them to produce it as such. What, sand down the black oxide layer then parkerize |
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That's a Park barrel. Not nitride. Although they advertised it as parkerized, their description listed it as nitride. It's a F'ed up ad and if your not happy with the park, PSA will exchange it, since they F'ed up the ad. It's not the first time (nor the last) this has happened with them. They have such a diverse array of barrels, I think even THEY have a hard time keeping things well described.
And yes to above... industry section gets things done much more QUICKLY. |
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