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Posted: 5/25/2016 8:36:16 PM EDT
My first AR build is pretty much complete. On to the next
First build was a CHF Mid Length Moe upper... PSA Premium BCG...BCM Gunfighter Mod 4... 80 lower (wich turned out great)... MOE stock kit... and MOE LPK with ALG QMS fire control. Milled out two 80's via CNC inevitably setting myself up for a second build before even finishing the first. Anyways, Was going to just get another CHF middy... but am now really liking the Aesthetic Appeal of an M4 upper. Would like to get the CHF Carbine M4 16" (would prefer to stick with 14.7" with pinned FH) but those aren't available. Also thought it would be cool to have one of each (MID, Carbine) as my first two rifles. SO, anyone care to talk me out of the CHF Carbine? Obviously looking to learn from more experienced guys. Thanks |
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Like you, I wanted to have one of both.
I think all the mid versus carbine talk is a lot to do about nothing and way over blown. I own a 16" middy, and a 14.5" carbine. Love both and Imo the perfect set ups, but I also like my 16" carbine too. Don't own a 14.5 mid, so I cant comment on that set up. |
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My first build was 16" CHF middy. My second build was a 14.7" CHF pinned M4A1. The M4A1 wasn't for me. Sold it and now I have two 16" CHF middies.
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Nothing wrong with either one. After owning and shooting many different types of barrels and gas systems the 16in Mid is my favorite and I think it is the best all around system for me.
That said, if you are wanting to give the carbine a try you will not be disappointed |
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Get whatever is the best deal. And don't hold your breath on the 14.7 CHF pinned carbine upper to come along frequently. I bought one a year or two ago and haven't seen them since. This is a good deal and stainless so it is different than your other middy. I hear great things about the CHF stainless FN barreled uppers.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-5-56-nato-stainless-steel-hammer-forged-upper.html |
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Thanks for the information fellas.
As far as the CHF stainless middy goes, I am not opposed to stainless, although it is hard for me to pay the premium upper price without the FN barrel. I guess what i should be asking is, In regards to a Carbine on 16" barrel. Some say that it is an unreliable set up, basically not a good idea (wasn't meant to be run that way). On the other hand, some people don't even mention the fact that their 16" barrel is running a carbine system in rifle review viedos. And some manufacturers are still selling completes with this set up. Ie: Colt 6920, Ruger ar 556 etc etc. Is a 16" barrel with a carbine system a no no? Will it be unreliable? Or is it just a little more recoil and a little dirtier and will run just fine. |
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Thanks for the information fellas. Or is it just a little more recoil and a little dirtier and will run just fine. View Quote This. There are a lot of purists out there on the Internets dispensing advice. We have a lifetime warranty for the initial purchaser. Buy what you like and have fun. |
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Thanks for the information fellas. As far as the CHF stainless middy goes, I am not opposed to stainless, although it is hard for me to pay the premium upper price without the FN barrel. I guess what i should be asking is, In regards to a Carbine on 16" barrel. Some say that it is an unreliable set up, basically not a good idea (wasn't meant to be run that way). On the other hand, some people don't even mention the fact that their 16" barrel is running a carbine system in rifle review viedos. And some manufacturers are still selling completes with this set up. Ie: Colt 6920, Ruger ar 556 etc etc. Is a 16" barrel with a carbine system a no no? Will it be unreliable? Or is it just a little more recoil and a little dirtier and will run just fine. View Quote I am pretty sure the 410 CHF SS barrels are made by FN |
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I honestly cant feel any difference between my 16" mid-length freedom and my 16" carbine freedom.
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I double checked online after you recommended it, and they don't mention anything in the ad. Im sure they would if it was FN.
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Good to know man, Ive decided thats the route I'm going to go.
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I remember asking before I bought mine and was told they are made by fn.Mine in a tack driver.
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I remember asking before I bought mine and was told they are made by fn.Mine in a tack driver. View Quote Haha you guys are making me consider another option now? I personally don't like the look of SS. But the CHF seems to have like a brushed finish. PSA can you confirm this: 27334 is FN barrel? |
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Haha you guys are making me consider another option now? I personally don't like the look of SS. But the CHF seems to have like a brushed finish. PSA can you confirm this: 27334 is FN barrel? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I remember asking before I bought mine and was told they are made by fn.Mine in a tack driver. Haha you guys are making me consider another option now? I personally don't like the look of SS. But the CHF seems to have like a brushed finish. PSA can you confirm this: 27334 is FN barrel? They are made by FN to my knowledge. SS with all black magpul and a NIB BCG is tits |
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Haha you guys are making me consider another option now? I personally don't like the look of SS. But the CHF seems to have like a brushed finish. PSA can you confirm this: 27334 is FN barrel? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I remember asking before I bought mine and was told they are made by fn.Mine in a tack driver. Haha you guys are making me consider another option now? I personally don't like the look of SS. But the CHF seems to have like a brushed finish. PSA can you confirm this: 27334 is FN barrel? This barrel is made for us by FN and the finish is passivated - a chemical treatment that dulls the finish and resists corrosion. |
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This barrel is made for us by FN and the finish is passivated - a chemical treatment that dulls the finish and resists corrosion. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I remember asking before I bought mine and was told they are made by fn.Mine in a tack driver. Haha you guys are making me consider another option now? I personally don't like the look of SS. But the CHF seems to have like a brushed finish. PSA can you confirm this: 27334 is FN barrel? This barrel is made for us by FN and the finish is passivated - a chemical treatment that dulls the finish and resists corrosion. Nice! I would add those facts to the description. I bet you will sell a hell of a lot more 410 uppers if you put FN in the description |
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Nice! I would add those facts to the description. I bet you will sell a hell of a lot more 410 uppers if you put FN in the description View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I remember asking before I bought mine and was told they are made by fn.Mine in a tack driver. Haha you guys are making me consider another option now? I personally don't like the look of SS. But the CHF seems to have like a brushed finish. PSA can you confirm this: 27334 is FN barrel? This barrel is made for us by FN and the finish is passivated - a chemical treatment that dulls the finish and resists corrosion. Nice! I would add those facts to the description. I bet you will sell a hell of a lot more 410 uppers if you put FN in the description All of our CHF barrels come from FN. |
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Nice! I would add those facts to the description. I bet you will sell a hell of a lot more 410 uppers if you put FN in the description
Helluva thing to leave out of the description haha. |
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Sooooo,
I was waiting to see if the carbine mentioned above would be placed on sale for memorial day. I had the above mentioned upper as well as three others in my wishlist. (Just keeping an eye on them). PSA 16" CHF MID-LENGTH 5.56 NATO 1:7 ULW 13" LIGHTWEIGHT KEYMOD UPPER - NO BCG OR CH - 777935 INCLUDING THIS ONE. Which went on sale for $349 and free shipping. Order placed. Looks like the carbine will have to be put on hold. Couldn't pass this deal up. I also had a $17 gift card, so total came to $332 shipped. Think i made the right decision lol. Anyone have experience with this rail? Seems to be PSA rail, (MFG not mentioned, called CS and they confirmed the ad, and gave no MFG info.) Thanks! |
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Sooooo, I was waiting to see if the carbine mentioned above would be placed on sale for memorial day. I had the above mentioned upper as well as three others in my wishlist. (Just keeping an eye on them). PSA 16" CHF MID-LENGTH 5.56 NATO 1:7 ULW 13" LIGHTWEIGHT KEYMOD UPPER - NO BCG OR CH - 777935 INCLUDING THIS ONE. Which went on sale for $349 and free shipping. Order placed. Looks like the carbine will have to be put on hold. Couldn't pass this deal up. I also had a $17 gift card, so total came to $332 shipped. Think i made the right decision lol. Anyone have experience with this rail? Seems to be PSA rail, (MFG not mentioned, called CS and they confirmed the ad, and gave no MFG info.) Thanks! View Quote That is a nice upper. I have probably 8 or so of those rails and they are very nice. Post a pic of your build when you finish it |
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I remember asking before I bought mine and was told they are made by fn.Mine in a tack driver. Haha you guys are making me consider another option now? I personally don't like the look of SS. But the CHF seems to have like a brushed finish. PSA can you confirm this: 27334 is FN barrel? This barrel is made for us by FN and the finish is passivated - a chemical treatment that dulls the finish and resists corrosion. Nice! I would add those facts to the description. I bet you will sell a hell of a lot more 410 uppers if you put FN in the description All of our CHF barrels come from FN. Does that mean item 507291 is also an FN barrel and is also coated in Passivated material? |
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Does that mean item 507291 is also an FN barrel and is also coated in Passivated material? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Haha you guys are making me consider another option now? I personally don't like the look of SS. But the CHF seems to have like a brushed finish. PSA can you confirm this: 27334 is FN barrel? This barrel is made for us by FN and the finish is passivated - a chemical treatment that dulls the finish and resists corrosion. Nice! I would add those facts to the description. I bet you will sell a hell of a lot more 410 uppers if you put FN in the description All of our CHF barrels come from FN. Does that mean item 507291 is also an FN barrel and is also coated in Passivated material? Not 410 stainless, not CHF, so, no. |
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OP, understand the gas system, then it will become very clear
the total gas that drives BCG backward depends on combination of the two factors: gas port size+gas length (pressure) so mid length is not "better" or softer recoil than carbine, you can reduce carbine gas port size to achieve exactly the same effect as longer gas length given the same port size, mid length gas has less gas pressure, so the total gas force is less, but less is NOT always better, some weaker rounds may not cycle, otherwise, just reduce carbine gas port size a bit you can get the same "less recoil". in fact, to be more "reliable" you want carbine not mid length (given the same port size) so mid length gas is just another setup, not better or worse than carbine, I don't bother to get mid length, and it seems PSA can't sell much they are all on sale at discount |
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Good info, thank you.
How would i alter a gas port size that has already been drilled by PSA? |
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Or, how would i reduce it rather, obviously make it bigger by drilling a larger hole.
Adjustable gas block? |
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Being that the military still has not deviated from the carbine system says a lot. I was just worried about the 16" barrel length. I really want to do a m4 clone with a 14.5" pinned and welded FH
Will have to wait to do that on my next build since i couldn't pass up on a deal for a middy yesterday. But a Carbine build WILL be my next build, and i can not wait. |
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OP, understand the gas system, then it will become very clear the total gas that drives BCG backward depends on combination of the two factors: gas port size+gas length (pressure) so mid length is not "better" or softer recoil than carbine, you can reduce carbine gas port size to achieve exactly the same effect as longer gas length given the same port size, mid length gas has less gas pressure, so the total gas force is less, but less is NOT always better, some weaker rounds may not cycle, otherwise, just reduce carbine gas port size a bit you can get the same "less recoil". in fact, to be more "reliable" you want carbine not mid length (given the same port size) so mid length gas is just another setup, not better or worse than carbine, I don't bother to get mid length, and it seems PSA can't sell much they are all on sale at discount View Quote Doesn't the distance from the end of the barrel to the port matter too? Like back pressure in a car exhaust. |
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Or, how would i reduce it rather, obviously make it bigger by drilling a larger hole. Adjustable gas block? View Quote the current port sizes from different makers are a good trade off, that will cycle pretty much all ammo while not recoil much, so there's no need to adjust size, but if you stick to a particular ammo and want to tune it perfectly, yes you can install adjustable gas block |
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Doesn't the distance from the end of the barrel to the port matter too? Like back pressure in a car exhaust. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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OP, understand the gas system, then it will become very clear the total gas that drives BCG backward depends on combination of the two factors: gas port size+gas length (pressure) so mid length is not "better" or softer recoil than carbine, you can reduce carbine gas port size to achieve exactly the same effect as longer gas length given the same port size, mid length gas has less gas pressure, so the total gas force is less, but less is NOT always better, some weaker rounds may not cycle, otherwise, just reduce carbine gas port size a bit you can get the same "less recoil". in fact, to be more "reliable" you want carbine not mid length (given the same port size) so mid length gas is just another setup, not better or worse than carbine, I don't bother to get mid length, and it seems PSA can't sell much they are all on sale at discount Doesn't the distance from the end of the barrel to the port matter too? Like back pressure in a car exhaust. yes it will affect the gas to cycle BCG, because if the distance from port to muzzle is too short, the gas pressure drops too fast (dwell time too short), then the gun may not cycle properly, so mid length has this danger, that's why if you go SBR you want carbine, not mid length, and 10" is riskier than 11" etc. longer dwell time is a good thing |
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It wasn't until after I made my preference towards mid-length gas systems that I found these write ups from Jeff Carpenter. Mr. Carpenter's writings on the topic coincided with what I found from the experience of owning both carbine and mid-length AR15s.
LinkedIn summary about Jeff Carpenter: Former Marine. Current Patrol Officer / SWAT Officer / Firearms Instructor / Police Academy Instructor. Owner / Operator of www.03designgroup.com "Not a huge thing, but after shooting all 3 side by side on numerous occasions, I see no need to own a 16" barrel with a carbine length gas system. I own (18) AR15's. (2) are short barreled barreled rifles, the rest of my AR15's are either 14.5" M4's with a carbine length gas sytems or 16" Mid-Lengths." - Jeff Carpenter View Quote Links below: Edit by PSA: While I'm sure Mr. Carpenter is a swell guy, this is our paid forum, and we ask that you please do not hot link to other web sites. |
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