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[#1]
I noted the lack of the Colt 'C' stamp on the upper, near the forge mark.
Do we take it to mean maybe Colt is farming out production of these upper receiver groups? Glad to see that they are using a standard Colt BCG with MPC marked bolt. |
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[#2]
Quoted: I noted the lack of the Colt 'C' stamp on the upper, near the forge mark. Do we take it to mean maybe Colt is farming out production of these upper receiver groups? Glad to see that they are using a standard Colt BCG with MPC marked bolt. View Quote I can't confirm the bolt carrier to be a standard Colt part because it also lacks the "C" stamp like the upper receiver along with the missing M4 stamp by the gas tube. |
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[#3]
Quoted: I noted the lack of the Colt 'C' stamp on the upper, near the forge mark. Do we take it to mean maybe Colt is farming out production of these upper receiver groups? Glad to see that they are using a standard Colt BCG with MPC marked bolt. View Quote |
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[#5]
Thanks for sharing, now we know more about this new Expanse CE1000 model than what was reported at the SHOT Show.
The single heat shields and smaller diameter handguards are the pre M4 handguards with dual layer heat shields, oval section and larger outer diameter. The hammer are a Colt match low mass hammer with notch type II (type I are without notch), seems to be nickle coated. The Expanse do come with sling swivels as the opposite of shown in the 2016 catalog pictures. Also it was reported that it will come with USGI Colt marked 30rd aluminum mag but it actually comes with a PMAG. The buttstock's cage code of 4U486 are P&S supplied latest version since last October of last year seen on new LE6920 M4 carbines. Does the stock also have Colt's cage code of 13629 maybe on the opposite side by the adjustment lever? Are you going to use it as is or upgrade it to a near LE6920 configuration? |
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[#6]
Quoted: Thanks for sharing, now we know more about this new Expanse CE1000 model than what was reported at the SHOT Show. The single heat shields and smaller diameter handguards are the pre M4 handguards with dual layer heat shields, oval section and larger outer diameter. The hammer are a Colt match low mass hammer with notch type II (type I are without notch), seems to be nickle coated. The Expanse do come with sling swivels as the opposite of shown in the 2016 catalog pictures. Also it was reported that it will come with USGI Colt marked 30rd aluminum mag but it actually comes with a PMAG. The buttstock's cage code of 4U486 are P&S supplied latest version since last October of last year seen on new LE6920 M4 carbines. Does the stock also have Colt's cage code of 13629 maybe on the opposite side by the adjustment lever? Are you going to use it as is or upgrade it to a near LE6920 configuration? View Quote Since this was a FTF purchase, I can't confirm that it comes with a PMAG instead of a Colt USGI magazine. GB listings show it with USGI. The P&S cage code is the only ID on the stock. I'm not sure which direction I'm going with yet. I doubt that I will upgrade parts to a LE6920 configuration as I already have one. |
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[#7]
Quoted:
Since this was a FTF purchase, I can't confirm that it comes with a PMAG instead of a Colt USGI magazine. GB listings show it with USGI. I'm not sure which direction I'm going with yet. I doubt that I will upgrade parts to a LE6920 configuration as I already have one. View Quote You are right about the mags not being PMAG, but PMAG are great and durable mags and I personally prefer them than USGI aluminum mags. There are three other configuration that I noticed, the front handguard cap is different from a LE6920, it doesn't have the cutouts for the M203 grenade launcher, and other pics that I seen it doesn't have T marks on top of the receiver's picatinny rail. It's nice to see they included the bayonet lug, the T&E carbines they shown end of last year didn't have bayo lugs. I also have a Colt 6920 for about 4 years now and my old backup carbine for it was my LMT Defender 2000 16" M4 carbine (made in 2005) but I just sold my LMT carbine. For a backup to my 6920 I'm trying to decide either to get an Expanse or LE6920 OEM2 stripped model. How does the Expanse trigger compared to your 6920 carbine? Here's an article about the new Colt Expanse CE1000 M4 carbine model which stated they have a 4150 CMV (mil-spec type steel) barrel non-chrome lined. http://rangehot.com/colt-mfg-2016-previews-new-firearms-at-gunsite/ Another article where the Expanse compared with Ruger AR-556 and S&W Sport II carbines. http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2016/01/07/expanse-m4-colts-cheap-ar/ |
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[#8]
Quoted: You are right about the mags not being PMAG, but PMAG are great and durable mags and I personally prefer them than USGI aluminum mags. There are three other configuration that I noticed, the front handguard cap is different from a LE6920, it doesn't have the cutouts for the M203 grenade launcher, and other pics that I seen it doesn't have T marks on top of the receiver's picatinny rail. It's nice to see they included the bayonet lug, the T&E carbines they shown end of last year didn't have bayo lugs. I also have a Colt 6920 for about 4 years now and my old backup carbine for it was my LMT Defender 2000 16" M4 carbine (made in 2005) but I just sold my LMT carbine. For a backup to my 6920 I'm trying to decide either to get an Expanse or LE6920 OEM2 stripped model. How does the Expanse trigger compared to your 6920 carbine? Here's an article about the new Colt Expanse CE1000 M4 carbine model which stated they have a 4150 CMV (mil-spec type steel) barrel non-chrome lined. http://rangehot.com/colt-mfg-2016-previews-new-firearms-at-gunsite/ Another article where the Expanse compared with Ruger AR-556 and S&W Sport II carbines. http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2016/01/07/expanse-m4-colts-cheap-ar/ View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Since this was a FTF purchase, I can't confirm that it comes with a PMAG instead of a Colt USGI magazine. GB listings show it with USGI. I'm not sure which direction I'm going with yet. I doubt that I will upgrade parts to a LE6920 configuration as I already have one. You are right about the mags not being PMAG, but PMAG are great and durable mags and I personally prefer them than USGI aluminum mags. There are three other configuration that I noticed, the front handguard cap is different from a LE6920, it doesn't have the cutouts for the M203 grenade launcher, and other pics that I seen it doesn't have T marks on top of the receiver's picatinny rail. It's nice to see they included the bayonet lug, the T&E carbines they shown end of last year didn't have bayo lugs. I also have a Colt 6920 for about 4 years now and my old backup carbine for it was my LMT Defender 2000 16" M4 carbine (made in 2005) but I just sold my LMT carbine. For a backup to my 6920 I'm trying to decide either to get an Expanse or LE6920 OEM2 stripped model. How does the Expanse trigger compared to your 6920 carbine? Here's an article about the new Colt Expanse CE1000 M4 carbine model which stated they have a 4150 CMV (mil-spec type steel) barrel non-chrome lined. http://rangehot.com/colt-mfg-2016-previews-new-firearms-at-gunsite/ Another article where the Expanse compared with Ruger AR-556 and S&W Sport II carbines. http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2016/01/07/expanse-m4-colts-cheap-ar/ FWIW, I was expecting a USGI mag. The "new trigger" is what you would expect from Colt. Gritty if you slowly squeeze each and every round... The point becomes moot when you rapid fire or double tap.
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[#9]
Thanks for all the pix, great write up. I was surprised how many are on gunbroker already.
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[#12]
Excellent pics, thanks. I think Colt has a winner here.
And what kind of hammer is that? |
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[#14]
Quoted:
So does the "C" mark on the barrel mean it is chrome lined? View Quote It's not chrome lined, the tech spec at Colt's site states the bore are not chrome lined. (Colt site link below) The C mark on the barrel probably just means Colt. http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Rifles/ExpanseM4.aspx |
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[#16]
That hammer looks like the one Colt installs in their 6724 Accurized rifle which came from the factory with a "Enhanced Match Trigger Group"...have you tested the weight with a trigger pull gauge?
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[#17]
Would it have really cost more money to finish milling the lower receiver?
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[#19]
The Colt Expanse rifles I have received from Colt have the F marked FSB with a bayonet lug as well as an aluminum Colt magazine.
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[#20]
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[#21]
The handguards do not appear to be the XM177E2 Carbine handgaurds of old.
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[#22]
Guys over at the Colt forum are saying the Expanse is made by Bold Ideas in Texas.
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[#23]
Quoted:
The handguards do not appear to be the XM177E2 Carbine handgaurds of old. View Quote The old M-16 carbine handguards had 6 holes correct? These handguards are probably the newer 7 holes version during the assault weapons ban era before the switch to the M4 double layer heat shields handguards. OP: I had just been informed by another new owner of an Expanse carbine that he found a checklist/ build sheet that was signed off by the employees of Bold Ideas of TX that makes the Colt Competition rifles. So it's likely that the Expanse are built by Bold Ideas Colt Competition rifles for Colt. |
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[#24]
Quoted:
The old M-16 carbine handguards had 6 holes correct? These handguards are probably the newer 7 holes version during the assault weapons ban era before the switch to the M4 double layer heat shields handguards. OP: I had just been informed by another new owner of an Expanse carbine that he found a checklist/ build sheet that was signed off by the employees of Bold Ideas of TX that makes the Colt Competition rifles. So it's likely that the Expanse are built by Bold Ideas Colt Competition rifles for Colt. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
The handguards do not appear to be the XM177E2 Carbine handgaurds of old. The old M-16 carbine handguards had 6 holes correct? These handguards are probably the newer 7 holes version during the assault weapons ban era before the switch to the M4 double layer heat shields handguards. OP: I had just been informed by another new owner of an Expanse carbine that he found a checklist/ build sheet that was signed off by the employees of Bold Ideas of TX that makes the Colt Competition rifles. So it's likely that the Expanse are built by Bold Ideas Colt Competition rifles for Colt. I had questioned previously if Colt outsourced the uppers to someone else. Is this the case, or is it the entire rifle? |
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[#25]
The Expanse is built/assembled in Texas. Colt provides many Hartford made parts including the upper and lower receiver and the barrels. This had to be done to get out of the grasp of the union.
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[#26]
Based on the photographs alone, my suspicion would be that Colt is providing complete lower assemblies and bolts to a subcontractor who is manufacturing the barreled uppers.
This would make sense in and that it would allow Colt to continue to crank out "universal" parts that are most closely associated with the brand/branding that could be used on more than one commercial model, but without having to disrupt their production line to manufacture a new upper configuration. The handguards are clearly not the "normal" Colt/OEM CAR handguards, as they have seven vent holes and a heat shield with a "ridge" down the center where the vent holes are, similar to commercial handguards that were often sold by Bushmaster (e.g.) when carbines first became popular commercially. ~Augee |
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[#27]
My "doesn't appear to be" comment, regarding the handguards, was a sarcastic way of stating the obvious -that being, this is not a Colt, in any traditional way. This is a watered-down product of an American icon -the slope just got slipperier.
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[#28]
Quoted:
My "doesn't appear to be" comment, regarding the handguards, was a sarcastic way of stating the obvious -that being, this is not a Colt, in any traditional way. This is a watered-down product of an American icon -the slope just got slipperier. View Quote The Expanse is a Colt, the lower receiver, the serialized part, the firearm, the upper receiver, the barrel, and some small parts are made by UAW Colt employees in Hartford. In order for Colt to stay in business, they will have to get out from under the UAW and this is going to be the only way that will happen. |
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[#29]
Somebody needs to pull a Colt engineer aside and tell them that the notch in the hammer is totally superfluous. It serves sbsolutely no purpose when combined with a fully shrouded bolt carrier. There is a level of dumbfuckness embedded there that I will never understand.
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[#30]
Just so everybody knows and to make it all clear as mud regarding the Colt Expanse, it is indeed a Colt firearm, however; It is kind of a Frankenstein gun and here's why...
The only parts on the rifle that are genuine Colt items are the stripped lower receiver itself, the barrel extension, and the bolt (not the bolt carrier). All of the other parts are from different vendors and they are all collected and shipped to another vendor (Bolt Ideas) in Texas for assembly, same as the Colt CSR rifles. The actual confirmed part manufacturers (aside from the Colt parts) so far are Anderson Manufacturing and P & S Products. There is still some confusion as to who is the exact manufacturer of the upper receiver with the circle forge code but it is certainly not Colt. All that being said, the Colt Expanse is still a good rifle as long you understand what you're buying. Dealer cost is only about $580 so keep that in mind before you throw down a lot of cash for one. I think $700 in a gun shop is a fair price but I would never pay more than that for this rifle. My opinion is that this rifle will still retain a bit more value than others simply because its a Colt item but they will never be on the same level as a Colt model 6920 or similar true Colt rifle. This type of sales strategy will just help to drive down the overall value of the Colt name and was and is nothing more than another poor business decision made by people who obviously don't know jack sh!t about firearms. It would be nice if there was an actual gun-guy running that company instead of corporate stooges who don't actually know anything about firearms... We can only hope in the future, one will come to save Colt... |
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[#31]
The FCG is a Colt product.
Colt has been using P&S subcontracted stocks for quite some time now, like P&S are the ones who changed their marking, to my knowledge, Colt has not been making their own polymer components for quite a while. The "O" is a forge marking, and indicates nothing about who is actually manufacturing the receivers, as the forge only provides the raw, unmachined forging. The selector is odd, not sure what to make of it. ~Augee |
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[#32]
I believe Augee is most likely correct, that Colt is producing the lowers, and the uppers are being subcontracted out.
The lack of the Colt 'C' stamp on the upper, next to the forge mark somewhat confirms that conclusion for me. |
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[#33]
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[#34]
Quoted:
The selector is the old/shorter style. Doesn't have the "S" Schneider and has a tick mark on the other side. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
The selector is odd, not sure what to make of it. ~Augee You misunderstand me. The "line" mark is not one that I have seen Colt factory guns previously use. If not for that, I would assume that Colt was simply sending complete lower halves + bolt to be assembled into the Expanse. However, an odd selector lever may complicate that theory. Colt may be sending lowers with FCGs, and the subcontractor sourcing the remainder of the LPK. ~Augee |
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[#35]
Quoted: You misunderstand me. The "line" mark is not one that I have seen Colt factory guns previously use. If not for that, I would assume that Colt was simply sending complete lower halves + bolt to be assembled into the Expanse. However, an odd selector lever may complicate that theory. Colt may be sending lowers with FCGs, and the subcontractor sourcing the remainder of the LPK. ~Augee View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The selector is odd, not sure what to make of it. ~Augee You misunderstand me. The "line" mark is not one that I have seen Colt factory guns previously use. If not for that, I would assume that Colt was simply sending complete lower halves + bolt to be assembled into the Expanse. However, an odd selector lever may complicate that theory. Colt may be sending lowers with FCGs, and the subcontractor sourcing the remainder of the LPK. ~Augee No misunderstanding, just an observation of my Expanse. Also, the receiver extension anodizing "feels" different from the 6920. I'm starting to believe that a subcontractor assembled the lower also. |
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[#36]
I just wanted to report that while looking around the web of these new Expanse model I had seen different raw forging markings on the uppers.
I've seen keyhole which are Cerro Forge and splintered A Anchor Harvey forge, I had even seen lower receivers with keyhole marks behind the trigger. Well I finally pulled the trigger on a new Expanse carbine, I'm going to use the lower for my next AR build project. I'm just waiting for my dealer to notify me for shipping tracking info. |
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[#37]
I recently purchased the Colt Expanse specifically for the complete lower. I swapped out the FCG, safety, and buffer/spring. Considering complete lowers are going for a pretty penny lately, I definitely saved a few dollars. Now, I just got to sell the complete upper for a decent price.
Honestly, the quality on the Colt Expanse is above what I would expect from a low budget starter AR. |
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[#38]
$200 more and you're into a 6920 on sale.
This thing makes no sense. |
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[#39]
LOL, over the past few days I've watched three of these sell for under dealer cost on Gunbroker auctions and the rest are only selling in the $600 range. People obviously know that these aren't traditional Colts so they aren't selling very well. Besides, even at a $600 price point people could indeed just spend $200 more and get a full blown 6920... I don't understand Colt's marketing mind set on this because it makes zero sense in reality but then, Colt marketing in general hasn't made much sense in over 20 years. At least they're consistent...
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[#40]
Quoted:
I recently purchased the Colt Expanse specifically for the complete lower. I swapped out the FCG, safety, and buffer/spring. Considering complete lowers are going for a pretty penny lately, I definitely saved a few dollars. Now, I just got to sell the complete upper for a decent price. Honestly, the quality on the Colt Expanse is above what I would expect from a low budget starter AR. View Quote Congrats, I'm still anxiously waiting for mine, and I'm doing the same thing that you did. That upper half is more valuable than you think, the fully tested and MPC marked bolt assembly are valuable maybe $80 up to over $100, the bolt carrier maybe same as a commercial carrier at around $65. The 4150 CMV barrel and the stripped upper receiver are going to be hard to estimate their value, might just have to look around how much people are getting for them. Complete Colt M4 lowers prices are crazy high right now like $450 to over $500, so if you get more than $200 for the upper half it's not bad. I'm making my lower half into a SOCOM block I clone. |
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[#41]
Quoted: I recently purchased the Colt Expanse specifically for the complete lower. I swapped out the FCG, safety, and buffer/spring. Considering complete lowers are going for a pretty penny lately, I definitely saved a few dollars. Now, I just got to sell the complete upper for a decent price. Honestly, the quality on the Colt Expanse is above what I would expect from a low budget starter AR. View Quote Do you have a 6920 or another Colt to compare the receiver extension with? The finish on mine looks and feels different. |
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[#42]
Quoted:
Congrats, I'm still anxiously waiting for mine, and I'm doing the same thing that you did. That upper half is more valuable than you think, the fully tested and MPC marked bolt assembly are valuable maybe $80 up to over $100, the bolt carrier maybe same as a commercial carrier at around $65. The 4150 CMV barrel and the stripped upper receiver are going to be hard to estimate their value, might just have to look around how much people are getting for them. Complete Colt M4 lowers prices are crazy high right now like $450 to over $500, so if you get more than $200 for the upper half it's not bad. I'm making my lower half into a SOCOM block I clone. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I recently purchased the Colt Expanse specifically for the complete lower. I swapped out the FCG, safety, and buffer/spring. Considering complete lowers are going for a pretty penny lately, I definitely saved a few dollars. Now, I just got to sell the complete upper for a decent price. Honestly, the quality on the Colt Expanse is above what I would expect from a low budget starter AR. Congrats, I'm still anxiously waiting for mine, and I'm doing the same thing that you did. That upper half is more valuable than you think, the fully tested and MPC marked bolt assembly are valuable maybe $80 up to over $100, the bolt carrier maybe same as a commercial carrier at around $65. The 4150 CMV barrel and the stripped upper receiver are going to be hard to estimate their value, might just have to look around how much people are getting for them. Complete Colt M4 lowers prices are crazy high right now like $450 to over $500, so if you get more than $200 for the upper half it's not bad. I'm making my lower half into a SOCOM block I clone. The upper is worth some money, but a 6920 upper is worth a lot more. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get twice as much for a 6920 upper as the Expanse upper. Can get a 6920 OEM or maybe even complete rifle for $100-$200 more. After you factor in the cost of replacing the FCG and some other lower parts, the extra value of the 6920 upper would almost certainly more than make up the extra $100-$200. |
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[#43]
I just found out today about another vendor making parts for new Colt rifles... SIGMA MANUFACTURING INDUSTRIES INC, Cage Code 0CXJ6.
So that makes three vendors besides Colt that we know of so far... |
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