User Panel
Posted: 4/16/2014 5:13:47 PM EDT
Hello ar-15 forum,
Im from Germany and I am going to build my first Ar-15 based on an colt hbar lower. Usually I would not ask anything about the lower as they seem to be noting special. But now i just figured out that my lower has selector stops. As far as I've read in this forum and what I have seen in pics on the Internet all colt semi lowers do not have those selector stops. Does anybody know what is the deal with this lower? Would be nice to hear anything that tells me what this lower is about. Bo http://abload.de/thumb/20140412_152009ekqz2.jpg http://abload.de/thumb/20140412_1520546epab.jpg http://abload.de/thumb/20140414_190453omrf3.jpg *Edit* I´ve loaded up the pictures at a new hoster and it seems that it works better there. I also added a picture showing the internals of the lower. As far as I know it is cutted for FA but does lack the 3rd pin hole. All parts do fit without problems. Also the original colt upper does fit. When I´ve bought the lower there where 3 more lowers available at that time on the website. They had the same markings and where of the same type but had different Ser. .no.. Maybe that means something or maybe not. Happy with any Info I get from you guys. Thank you in advance. Bo |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
..Colts are typically not marked safe/semi on the right hand side of the receiver. View Quote That is not correct. I have five Colts and four of the five are marked safe/fire on the right side. View Quote This has only occurred within the last couple of years - IIRC 2011, though I'd have to check to make sure, I believe the SP6920 "Sporter M4 Carbine" was the first model to have them, subsequently, they've all had them. ~Augee View Quote Right, I don't think any HBAR match marked lowers were ever double side stamped. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
..Colts are typically not marked safe/semi on the right hand side of the receiver. View Quote That is not correct. I have five Colts and four of the five are marked safe/fire on the right side. View Quote Member PRYDE is correct, the safe/ fire markings on the right side of the civilian AR models were added and mostly all models were completed by mid 2010, before then only very few lowers have them, they're very rare before 2010. I also have five Colts, three that were made before 2010 had no safe/ fire markings on the right side, two of them a SP6920 made in 2011 and a LE6920 made in 2012 had the selector markings on the right side. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
..Colts are typically not marked safe/semi on the right hand side of the receiver. View Quote That is not correct. I have five Colts and four of the five are marked safe/fire on the right side. View Quote Member PRYDE is correct, the safe/ fire markings on the right side of the civilian AR models were added and mostly all models were completed by mid 2010, before then only very few lowers have them, they're very rare before 2010. I also have five Colts, three that were made before 2010 had no safe/ fire markings on the right side, two of them a SP6920 made in 2011 and a LE6920 made in 2012 had the selector markings on the right side. View Quote Sure, but to say that it is a fake, and state it is so because of the right side stamps is pretty shortsighted. Especially considering we don't know how COLT has been configuring rifles for sale overseas. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
..Colts are typically not marked safe/semi on the right hand side of the receiver. View Quote That is not correct. I have five Colts and four of the five are marked safe/fire on the right side. View Quote Member PRYDE is correct, the safe/ fire markings on the right side of the civilian AR models were added and mostly all models were completed by mid 2010, before then only very few lowers have them, they're very rare before 2010. I also have five Colts, three that were made before 2010 had no safe/ fire markings on the right side, two of them a SP6920 made in 2011 and a LE6920 made in 2012 had the selector markings on the right side. View Quote Sure, but to say that it is a fake, and state it is so because of the right side stamps is pretty shortsighted. Especially considering we don't know how COLT has been configuring rifles for sale overseas. View Quote The selector markings is only one that he mentioned but as me and Augee stated several other discrepancies. The model markings are the most obvious, as far as I could remember there were no AR-15 HBAR models (take a look at the Colt models charts online), HBAR model started with the R6000 marked AR-15A2 HBAR SPORTER, I had one of this HBAR rifle way back in 1986 when they were first released. If we were going to base the OP's lower as a Match HBAR, then the marking AR-15 is wrong, it should be Sporter which were made from 1991 up to 1994. But just looking closely on the markings the OP's lower were engraved, they should be roll marked. Even the export only modes such as the R6510 AR-15A2 Sporter II in .222 Remington cal. and the R6521 marked "Carbine" (similar configuration to the 6520 AR-15A2 Government Carbine) have roll markings. I've only seen engraved Colt lower markings on pre-production/ test or special one of a kind lower. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
..Colts are typically not marked safe/semi on the right hand side of the receiver. View Quote That is not correct. I have five Colts and four of the five are marked safe/fire on the right side. View Quote Member PRYDE is correct, the safe/ fire markings on the right side of the civilian AR models were added and mostly all models were completed by mid 2010, before then only very few lowers have them, they're very rare before 2010. I also have five Colts, three that were made before 2010 had no safe/ fire markings on the right side, two of them a SP6920 made in 2011 and a LE6920 made in 2012 had the selector markings on the right side. View Quote Sure, but to say that it is a fake, and state it is so because of the right side stamps is pretty shortsighted. Especially considering we don't know how COLT has been configuring rifles for sale overseas. View Quote The selector markings is only one that he mentioned but as me and Augee stated several other discrepancies. The model markings are the most obvious, as far as I could remember there were no AR-15 HBAR models (take a look at the Colt models charts online), HBAR model started with the R6000 marked AR-15A2 HBAR SPORTER, I had one of this HBAR rifle way back in 1986 when they were first released. If we were going to base the OP's lower as a Match HBAR, then the marking AR-15 is wrong, it should be Sporter which were made from 1991 up to 1994. But just looking closely on the markings the OP's lower were engraved, they should be roll marked. Even the export only modes such as the R6510 AR-15A2 Sporter II in .222 Remington cal. and the R6521 marked "Carbine" (similar configuration to the 6520 AR-15A2 Government Carbine) have roll markings. I've only seen engraved Colt lower markings on pre-production/ test or special one of a kind lower. View Quote It doesn't matter what the catalogs for US sold ARs indicate. The picture quality of those images does not allow you to state definitively that the markings were engraved. |
|
Matter of fact, if you look behind the trigger you can see the huge unfinished seam which only COLT seems to be notorious for leaving untouched.
|
|
Quoted:
It doesn't matter what the catalogs for US sold ARs indicate. The picture quality of those images does not allow you to state definitively that the markings were engraved. View Quote Quoted:
Matter of fact, if you look behind the trigger you can see the huge unfinished seam which only COLT seems to be notorious for leaving untouched. View Quote You are contradicting yourself here, with the large size picture of 4128 X 3096 5550 KB that is not a small pic. You cannot see what engraving and roll markings look like, yet you could see untouched forging flash? Also you could enlarge your browser image by 150 to 200 percent to see it better. Please list the features you think this is a genuine Colt made lower. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
It doesn't matter what the catalogs for US sold ARs indicate. The picture quality of those images does not allow you to state definitively that the markings were engraved. View Quote Quoted:
Matter of fact, if you look behind the trigger you can see the huge unfinished seam which only COLT seems to be notorious for leaving untouched. View Quote You are contradicting yourself here, with the large size picture of 4128 X 3096 5550 KB that is not a small pic. You cannot see what engraving and roll markings look like, yet you could see untouched forging flash? Also you could enlarge your browser image by 150 to 200 percent to see it better. Please list the features you think this is a genuine Colt made lower. View Quote I am not contradicting anything. The big huge piece of flash, both in front and behind the trigger are clearly visible. It doesn't matter how much you blow it up. The quality for you to call the markings engravings is simply not there. And I can't call it a genuine COLT lower, just the same as you can't call it a fake. I don't know how COLT lowers sold overseas were configured. Just as you also do not know the same. |
|
Quoted:
..Colts are typically not marked safe/semi on the right hand side of the receiver. View Quote That is not correct. I have five Colts and four of the five are marked safe/fire on the right side. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
..Colts are typically not marked safe/semi on the right hand side of the receiver. View Quote That is not correct. I have five Colts and four of the five are marked safe/fire on the right side. View Quote This has only occurred within the last couple of years - IIRC 2011, though I'd have to check to make sure, I believe the SP6920 "Sporter M4 Carbine" was the first model to have them, subsequently, they've all had them. ~Augee |
|
Based on the additional photos you've posted, I'm confident saying that probably got a 99% likelihood of being a fake with the +/- 1% being only because "you never know" with Colt, and because I haven't been able to handle it and examine it personally.
The right side selector markings are fairly damning, as Colt did not start putting them on semi-automatic lower receivers until the last couple of years. Also, there is no sear block or sear web in the lower - it is milled like a "standard" AR15 semi-automatic lower. I concur with Alpha-Romeo3 on the markings, which is what I was talking about when I said they didn't resemble any Colt commercial/export models I was aware of. ~Augee |
|
It's a fake, that font is not correct and Colts are typically not marked safe/semi on the right hand side of the receiver.
|
|
I can't tell because the pic you linked has some stupid advertisement in front of the pic, blocking the enlarged view...
|
|
Looks like a fake.
From what I understand, it's a big business in Germany. Rollmarks do not resemble any Colt commercial or export model that I am familiar with. ~Augee |
|
My dad owns a LE6601 20" HBAR that carries that rollmark, but it does not have the selector stops. Does your lower have the Restricted markings on the opposite side? My dad picked his up in Va. right after the sunset of the AWB in 2004. I will see if I can get him to email me some pics. I am VERY familiar with that rifle, because it was the cause of my black rifle disease.
|
|
My opinion is that is also probably a fake lower.
The Colt model R6600 AR-15A2 HBAR the markings are "AR-15A2 HBAR SPORTER" serial number prefix of "SP". The other model that replaced it is model R6601 marked "SPORTER MATCH HBAR" serial number prefix of "MH". The letter "L" before the serial number prefix are law enforcement models. Your font of the model name Match HBAR and caliber are not the same as genuine roll markings. |
|
It does not have the "RESTRICTED" markings. You can see it in the picture that shows the right side of the lower. Thanks for your help bluesfan.
Bo |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
..Colts are typically not marked safe/semi on the right hand side of the receiver. That is not correct. I have five Colts and four of the five are marked safe/fire on the right side. View Quote Member PRYDE is correct, the safe/ fire markings on the right side of the civilian AR models were added and mostly all models were completed by mid 2010, before then only very few lowers have them, they're very rare before 2010. I also have five Colts, three that were made before 2010 had no safe/ fire markings on the right side, two of them a SP6920 made in 2011 and a LE6920 made in 2012 had the selector markings on the right side. View Quote Sure, but to say that it is a fake, and state it is so because of the right side stamps is pretty shortsighted. Especially considering we don't know how COLT has been configuring rifles for sale overseas. View Quote The selector markings is only one that he mentioned but as me and Augee stated several other discrepancies. The model markings are the most obvious, as far as I could remember there were no AR-15 HBAR models (take a look at the Colt models charts online), HBAR model started with the R6000 marked AR-15A2 HBAR SPORTER, I had one of this HBAR rifle way back in 1986 when they were first released. If we were going to base the OP's lower as a Match HBAR, then the marking AR-15 is wrong, it should be Sporter which were made from 1991 up to 1994. But just looking closely on the markings the OP's lower were engraved, they should be roll marked. Even the export only modes such as the R6510 AR-15A2 Sporter II in .222 Remington cal. and the R6521 marked "Carbine" (similar configuration to the 6520 AR-15A2 Government Carbine) have roll markings. I've only seen engraved Colt lower markings on pre-production/ test or special one of a kind lower. View Quote It doesn't matter what the catalogs for US sold ARs indicate. The picture quality of those images does not allow you to state definitively that the markings were engraved. View Quote The logos & text on the lower in the OP's pics are engraved. Colt roll stamps. Further, Colt is not the only brand that does not completely clean up the forging flash. This has been gone over a couple times a year from foreigners with supposed Colt lowers, especially in Germany, & that lower looks to almost certainly be a fake. |
|
Sadly I also think that you have a fake lower. As some already mentioned it is most likely getting a fake when it comes to buying modern Colt AR-15 lowers here in Germany.
I was looking for one for a long time and finally decided to go with an old M16A1 lower from the late 1970s / early 1980s, as it was just not possible finding a modern real Colt one. I could use a full auto as it was only for a deact project. So at least I have a deact Colt. I would love having a semi Colt AR-15 too! Judging from the pics it looks great, and the only things that make me quite sure are the markings (engraved, not roll marked) and the selector stops that should be missing on a real Colt semi lower. I hope you didn't pay too much for it. It should be a fine rifle though ... Greetings from Germany, near Stuttgart Mike |
|
I agree that this is a fake. The markings appear to be engraved, not stamped. The support ears for the front pushpin also do not appear to be period correct.
|
|
Quoted:
http://www10.pic-upload.de/14.03.12/h3rw63sbf9wt.jpg Same horse, but far worse markings.The OP's looks amazing by comparison. View Quote Pictogram selector markings... Jeeze, are they even trying? ~Augee |
|
Hey guys,
Thank you all for your input. I will contact Colt about it and see what they think about it. Its like gunslinger-mike says. It is very hard here in Germany to get original colt semi lowers. Only full auto m16 lowers but we cannot use them for live firearms. So long I will use this lowers as it looks durable enough to withstand the use in a firearm. Happy Easter to you all The Bo |
|
It may be one of the Colt Comp lowers. I like the way it's milled without a web sear block on the inside makes me wish all my Colt lowers were milled that way.
|
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.