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Posted: 6/17/2017 7:57:11 PM EDT
I have having some serious failures to feed issues. I asked about this some time back in this forum, was shooting WW and PMC at the time, some said it is the low power of these brands. Switch to some Federal 556 green tips, got better. But today, shooting some Hornady .223 Match ammo, 55 grain, I had 6 FTFs in 30 rounds. This is very, very discouraging, especially when my $400 PSA truck gun ran flawlessly with 150 rounds of everything.
Am I missing something here? Running Magpul Gen 3 20 round Pmags, The switch port is correct, non-suppressed. I know the rifle is tested with 77 FGGM, and when I do shoot this ammo, it runs good, but I hate to think I have to run FGGM to get reliability. The buffer, the spring, all is stock except I do have a Sliencerco brake adaptor, but I was having issues before I installed the brake adaptor. No suppressor yet, still waiting on the approval. Any suggestions? 77 |
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[#2]
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[#4]
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[#5]
How clean is the gun?
What lubrication does it have on it? Inspect the bolt, bcg, cam pin, ejector and extractor. Make sure the springs are springing and the claw on the extractor isn't broken. |
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[#6]
Quoted:
How clean is the gun? What lubrication does it have on it? Inspect the bolt, bcg, cam pin, ejector and extractor. Make sure the springs are springing and the claw on the extractor isn't broken. View Quote So I will take the rifle down tomorrow, clean real good, lube with Slip and put back together. 77 |
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[#7]
Quoted:
Rifle has less than 300 rounds. I lubed well before the first rounds when new. I use Slip and Wilson Combat oils and grease. I did take the BCG out at the range and disassembled. Was some dirty but not that bad. Cleaned up the parts, sprayed with Tetra and reassembled, ran three quick rounds, functioned...went cold range and I had to leave. So I will take the rifle down tomorrow, clean real good, lube with Slip and put back together. 77 View Quote |
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[#8]
Much smarter to let the experts diagnose and fix the issue...call em and send it back...
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[#9]
If it were me:
1. Strip it down and clean the bejeesus out of it. Assemble and lube with Slip only - no grease. 2. Call LT and have a conversation before next range session. 3. Procure and test fire 77 gr. 5.56 ammunition - at least 100 rds. IMI Razorcore should be sufficient if FGMM is a little salty. If the rifle runs all the 77 gr. without a hiccup it's likely that a lighter spring is needed to cycle with the lighter 55 gr. .223 ammunition. My BuildAR upper was TIGHT for the first 300-500 rounds while everything was breaking in, but everything is smoothed out now and it eats everything that I've test through it since then - 55 gr. to 77 gr. factory and hand loads. Caveat to the above statement: I have an SLR adjustable gas block and a JP SCS on most all my AR's and spend a little time adjusting gas and swapping springs to dial in the rifle for the ammo range I run most. |
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[#10]
I second trying some different ammo. Your OBR is not the same as your $400 PSA. I hate to use the "don't put 85 Octane gas into your Ferrari" saying, but that pretty much rings true with these precision gas guns.
I'm guessing that the pressure curve is different between the bulk 55gr ammo you're trying to shoot compared to the heavier 69gr, 75gr, and 77gr match ammo the OBR is designed to function with, which is causing your issues. You could play with springs and buffers, maybe even an adjustable gas block, but if the rifle will run with good match ammo, why not just feed it that exclusively? You might also try to shoot some high speed video of the rifle functioning, or failing to function, with the ammo you're running. That would be helpful in trying to diagnose over the internet what is going on with your stick. |
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[#11]
i am going to have to disagree with those that keep saying clean it and use better ammo. i think there is something wrong with the rifle or gas system. things happen.
a rifle like this should run ANY ammo you put through it clean OR dirty. if a rifle won't shoot correctly after a thousand rounds and has to be cleaned constantly to run correctly, there is a problem,. FWIW all 4 of my LT rifles (TOBRx2 and stealth 2.0 x2) all run fine with cheap or good ammo in them both clean and dirty with absolutely NO ISSUES whatsoever and have from day 1 without swapping anything out including springs and such. call the mother ship and get an rma. send the rifle back for repair. |
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[#12]
Where did you apply the grease?
Bone dry the rifle should be plenty capable of firing a mag full of any decent ammunition. What buffer spring do you have in it? |
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[#13]
Bronc,
Sorry to hear brother give it a good cleaning especially the chamber with a chamber brush. Lube it up with a great amount of oil and repeat. Hopefully you can run some more rounds through it and it starts running flawless for you. Just shot mine again Wednesday and ate everything after a similar sporadic start. Good Luck and if no go send to mother ship. |
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[#14]
Quoted:
Bronc, Sorry to hear brother give it a good cleaning especially the chamber with a chamber brush. Lube it up with a great amount of oi and repeat. Hopefully you can run some more rounds through it and it starts running flawless for you. Just shot mine again Wednesday and ate everything after a similar sporadic start. Good Luck and if no go send to mother ship. View Quote What I am going to do this week is take the entire rifle down, clean to a base line, grease free, oil free, clean the bolt and carrier, lube the entire rifle and go back to the range Saturday with a variety of ammo. Will also call LT in the morning, explain the situation, my plans and if this does not work, will send it back. 77 |
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[#15]
Here is a helpful link.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2oavpl for cleaning and lubrication |
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[#16]
Quoted:
I am using Slip 2000 EW Grease, some good stuff. I am applying the grease on the bottom of the BC where it rides along the hammer. Also using Slip oil on the entire carrier. What I am going to do this week is take the entire rifle down, clean to a base line, grease free, oil free, clean the bolt and carrier, lube the entire rifle and go back to the range Saturday with a variety of ammo. Will also call LT in the morning, explain the situation, my plans and if this does not work, will send it back. 77 View Quote |
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[#17]
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[#18]
Ditch the grease.
Clean and oil correctly. Check what buffer spring you are running. (Replace with lighter spring, if necessary.) |
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[#19]
Quoted:
Ditch the grease. Clean and oil correctly. Check what buffer spring you are running. (Replace with lighter spring, if necessary.) View Quote I deal with lubrication for a living, work lubrication problems on a daily basis on machinery that is way more stressed than these rifles. The grease is placed on the high drag area, bottom of the bolt carrier, the oil is on the surface of the BC and in the trigger area. Not a lot of grease is used, this is not the issue, I can rule that out I did call LT and talked to a great gun tech there, we have been emailing back and forth...explained to him how I am lubing the rifle, no issues there. The problem may be a light magazine spring. I number all of my mags, not for reliability but to identify the ammo loaded in each one. Looking back at the mag order from this past weekend, and the ammo loading sequence I have recorded, I have narrowed it down to Mag 3, a Magpul 20 round curved mag, not an original straight mag. The ammo was Hornady Match, what I consider a very high quality round. I completed a questionnaire that John sent me, filled it out, we talked again today and he has some suggestions... My plan is to shoot again this weekend, trying to repeat the events from last weekend, not trying to change all of the variables at one time. If I can repeat, same ammo, same mags, then we identified the problem. If this does not work, I will install the BCG that he is sending me. Will give this a try. I will have to say one thing, and should not be a surprise to anyone, the LT team is all over this, the response from them is outstanding and quick, what great people to talk to and support you. Will keep you updated on the progress and results. 77 |
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[#20]
You've been asked a few times and I haven't seen a response; what spring and buffer are you using?
I wouldn't expect any problems with Hornady ammunition. I've run a few different types just to see what will group better or as good as 77gr FGMM. |
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[#21]
If you run the BCG back and forth with the CH and it's super smooth, then dry fire and run the BCG back again with the CH to charge the rifle and it's still really smooth with only a bit more resistance resetting the hammer, it's probably your recoil spring with the lighter ammo.
I haven't bought a 556 LaRue super recently but the last one I received came with red and white springs. It won't cycle powderpuff .223 with the red spring unless suppressed. Other than that, I'd make sure the chamber is clean as that could be slowing down extraction with the powderpuff rounds. |
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[#22]
Quoted:
You've been asked a few times and I haven't seen a response; what spring and buffer are you using? I wouldn't expect any problems with Hornady ammunition. I've run a few different types just to see what will group better or as good as 77gr FGMM. View Quote I received the new BCG from Larue to try. Not sure what all I mentioned in the above post, so if I am repeating, I am sorry... Working with the LT techs, we went through all of the possibilities, and trying the new BCG is one of the troubleshooting steps. I am running the standard buffer that shipped with the rifle, the same spring that shipped, white-the correct spring. I have been away from the range, as it has been underwater from all of the rain. Went to the range yesterday with a cleaned rifle, lubricated BCG-the original BCG , had the new one with me, and the first magazine of Hornady, no issues, the second mag of Federal Green Tip, third magazine of FGMM (magazine number 3), more mags of Hornady and green tips. Then loaded Remington .223, 55 grain in magazine number 3 and FTF on 9th shot. ETA: The same ammo in the same magazine numbers as a few weeks ago. Cleared the round, completed the magazine, no issues. All of my magazines are numbered so I can track the loaded ammo. I tried the Remington in magazine number 3 because I believe it was the one that I had the FTFs weeks ago. So, looks like the magazine could be the culprit along with Remington ammo. I sent LT an updated email this evening and also asked how much the BCG cost, I may pay for it to keep. I purchased another LMT last week, a MARS CQB Piston rifle, had it with me yesterday, 200 rounds through it, 100 of those Remington, no issues. 77 |
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[#23]
So, possible mag issue. With that, shooting unsupported, bipod, or resting on the mag? Does it care what ammo you're using with a new pmag or the LT mags that shipped with the rifle? I'd trashcan the problem mag and maybe you won't run into any more issues.
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[#24]
Quoted:
So, possible mag issue. With that, shooting unsupported, bipod, or resting on the mag? Does it care what ammo you're using with a new pmag or the LT mags that shipped with the rifle? I'd trashcan the problem mag and maybe you won't run into any more issues. View Quote Shooting 20 round Pmag, on a Larue-Harris bipod, rear supported. Not resting on magazine. The rifle shipped with a PMag, if I am not mistaken, I do not have a Larue magazine other than the two that shipped with my 762 OBR. Magazine number 3 is now in the parts bin box, I will install a Wolff spring in it later. I talked to the LT tech department today, I have some more testing to do, will be a few weeks before I can get back to the range. Will keep you updated. LT tech support is a tremendous help on this. Cant say enough good about them. 77 |
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[#25]
Latest Update:
Went to the range today, brought the following ammo with me: Federal M193, 55g, 5.56 Federal Green Tip, 62g, 5.56 Hornady Match, 77g, .223 Federal American Eagle, 55g, .223 Winchester WB, 55g, .223 PMC Bronze, 55g, .223 The PMC bronze was the ammo giving me all of the FTF's in the past. All ammo is loaded in Magpul curved 20 round magazines, all loaded to 19 rounds, Gen 3 mags, with the exception, I loaded the PMC in Brownells 20 round GI aluminum mags... All mags are numbered so I can track which mag is giving me the trouble. I am also running the new BCG that LT provided me. Gun was cleaned last evening, bore cleaned, BCG cleaned and oil up with Slip 2000 EWL, also ran a bead of Slip 2000 grease along the bottom of the BC, as I have been doing with all my rifles for 20 plus years. Shot in this order, I took notes for ever mag Mag 1, Federal M193, no issues, brass at 4'oclock, 10-12 feet in one pile Mag 2, Federal American Eagle, no issues, brass at 4'oclock, 6-8 feet, one pile Mag 3, Winchester, 1,2 shot OK, FTF on third shot, dropped the mag, one round dropped out, reloaded the round, magazine back in, 4th OK, 5th shot FTF, repeated as before, rest of the mag ran well, brass at 4'oclock, 6-8 feet, one pile Mag 4, here is the kicker, PMC in the Brownells aluminum mag, all 19 rounds ran fine, loaded the second Brownells mag with PMC, ran 12 rounds, no issues, called cold range, I stopped. I have the following suspicions, could it be the Magpul 20 round mags, combined with a lower powered ammo? PMC and Winchester? I shoot quality ammo, as you can see, I know the expensive stuff, FGMM, Hornady, BH, all run fine. I can live with that. The other side of the coin, my LMTs would cycle a dog turd if I could shape it into a cartridge. These rifles have not found any ammo they wont eat. The LMT accuracy is as outstanding with FGGM, but they really like the green tip 62 grain. I am returning the original BCG to LT this week, the new BCG they shipped me seems to be working better, less FTFs than before, so I will keep that one.... As I noted before, the set up, LT OBR rifle, Harris-LT bipod, 20 round mag-not touching the bench, no rear bag, 88F temperature, 70% humidity or better, Trijicon Accupower scope, Silencerco Omega brake adapter, no silencer. I had heard at one time the Magpul 20 round magazine springs were on the light side. I have not tried any of the ammo in a 30 round mag yet...next step is to load up the same ammo as today in a bunch of my 20 round NHMTG aluminum mags and give this a try along with the 2 Brownells mags I have. Any other suggestions? Is anyone else have problems similar to this? Any ammo that your LT OBR rifle does not like? Thanks, 77 |
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[#26]
Put more oil on the bolt and bcg and try switching to the red spring at this point and give it a go. I will try running 20 round magazines through mine and see how that goes. Lets see some pictures of the FTF's if possible and of the groups too.
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[#27]
Snipert,
I will take a chamber picture next time this happens. The empty case is ejected, the round is partially stripped from the mag, such that it clears the lips, when I drop the mag to clear, the FTF round drops out of the mag well. I am running the white spring, the first thing everyone ask. I am not shooting for group, shooting a gong, as at this time I am not worried about groupings. I will say this, with 77 FGMM, I have shot 3/4" groups. It is accurate. Now, you mentioned the red spring, I have tried this and you are the first to recommend this. |
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[#28]
It came up in the other thread you had on it. I had a little bit of an issue on my brand new OBR light. I switched to the white spring for a little bit during break in. After about 400 rounds I now run exclusively red spring with PMC and Remington and Federal 55 grain economy stuff without issue. It has never had an issue with match ammo. Keep the bolt and BCG dripping lubed for now and watch the cleaning video I posted a little bit above, Ashley might help. I have never run 20 rounders in it use 30 round pmags and GI 30 rounders with the green follower. I will try 20 rounders hopefully Tuesday but marking your mags is great for tracking. So many issues can be mag and ammo related. I wish I could see what was going on in a video to establish whats going on. Sounds like on the quality ammo you are having great results. Great ejection patterns and piles. Hard to tell if you are having bolt override etc. Ill PM you my cell and email if you want to send video or pictures that way. I know you have your PST in the right spot because we already covered that in the last thread.
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[#29]
Please let me know if I have this right.
Rifle has less than 300rds; is running white spring, original buffer and ejection is a 4 o'clock; PST is in unsuppressed; you're cleaning and lubing the rifle; rifle had issue with and without current brake. Original thread had issues with WW and PMC in Magpul mags. Switched to green tip and Hornady Match and still had issues, but not as bad (mag #3???). Suspect Magpul #3 is the issue. Working with LaRue; they sent a new BCG. Fired Hornady, green tip, FGGM (with mag #3) and more Hornady and green tip with no issues. Fired Remington in mag #3 and had one FTF; removed mag #3 from the rotation but continued to use Magpul 20 rounders. Fired in Magpul mags: M193 and AE w/no issues. Winchester in Magul with FTF. PMC in aluminum mags, no issues. I think we have two common denominators, the most prevalent is the Magpul mags followed by the WW, Remington and PMC ammo. However, PMC worked in the aluminum mags. To eliminate a couple more variables, I'd first suggest again firing the WW, Remington and PMC in the Magpuls and with the original BCG. Do the same with the new BCG and track the results. Repeat the test again with the aluminum mags and the original BCG. Switch to the new BCG and repeat the test with the same ammo and aluminum mags. Track and analyze the results. You've mixed an matched ammo and mags a bit over the course of your testing so I don't think you've totally replicated the circumstances of the original FTFs with the WW and Remington. You did with the PMC, but let's try that again as a sort of control since it did not work in the Magpuls and did in the aluminum mags. I'm thinking (as others have suggested) the bolt is overriding the ammo in the mags. That could be because the rifle is overgassed and cycling too fast, or the mag spring can't keep up with the rifle. Since the better ammo does not appear to have the override issue and the rounds are ejecting correctly, I'm leaning towards the mags. ETA - Or you can skip right to the red spring to see what happens and reverse diagnoses. At that point, you could do as Snipert suggested and go to the red spring, which would add more resistance and slow the cycle. If the WW, Remington and PMC cycle with the red spring and Magpul mags, then it would be a clear pointer to the mags being the culprit. Lastly, check the gas system to see if there is excessive leakage at the PST or at the key. I'm not leaning in that direction (hence a last suggestion), but you never know. |
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[#30]
Quoted:
See my answers below: Please let me know if I have this right. Rifle has less than 300rds; is running white spring, original buffer and ejection is a 4 o'clock; PST is in unsuppressed; you're cleaning and lubing the rifle; rifle had issue with and without current brake. Yes Original thread had issues with WW and PMC in Magpul mags. More so with PMC than WW, 90% of the FTF were wth PMC, all in Magpul 20 round mags Switched to green tip and Hornady Match and still had issues, but not as bad (mag #3???). Yes Suspect Magpul #3 is the issue. Possible the issue Working with LaRue; they sent a new BCG. Yes shipped new BCG, installed two weekends ago Fired Hornady, green tip, FGGM (with mag #3) and more Hornady and green tip with no issues. Fired Remington in mag #3 and had one FTF; removed mag #3 from the rotation but continued to use Magpul 20 rounders. Mag 3 stayed in rotation, still not sure Mag 3 was the issue Fired in Magpul mags: M193 and AE w/no issues. Winchester in Magul with FTF. PMC in aluminum mags, no issues. Correct, PMC ran fine Brownells aluminum mags I think we have two common denominators, the most prevalent is the Magpul mags followed by the WW, Remington and PMC ammo. However, PMC worked in the aluminum mags. Seems that way, but PMC in the aluminum mags throws this off To eliminate a couple more variables, I'd first suggest again firing the WW, Remington and PMC in the Magpuls and with the original BCG. Do the same with the new BCG and track the results. Will add to my plan for this weekend, I just loaded a bunch of Magpuls and aluminum mags with a selection of ammo, including WW, PMC and Remington Repeat the test again with the aluminum mags and the original BCG. Switch to the new BCG and repeat the test with the same ammo and aluminum mags. Track and analyze the results. See note above You've mixed an matched ammo and mags a bit over the course of your testing so I don't think you've totally replicated the circumstances of the original FTFs with the WW and Remington. You did with the PMC, but let's try that again as a sort of control since it did not work in the Magpuls and did in the aluminum mags. I'm thinking (as others have suggested) the bolt is overriding the ammo in the mags. That could be because the rifle is overgassed and cycling too fast, or the mag spring can't keep up with the rifle. Since the better ammo does not appear to have the override issue and the rounds are ejecting correctly, I'm leaning towards the mags. Leaning to agree especially with the PMC in aluminum mags. Will bring the red spring with me ETA - Or you can skip right to the red spring to see what happens and reverse diagnoses. At that point, you could do as Snipert suggested and go to the red spring, which would add more resistance and slow the cycle. If the WW, Remington and PMC cycle with the red spring and Magpul mags, then it would be a clear pointer to the mags being the culprit. Lastly, check the gas system to see if there is excessive leakage at the PST or at the key. I'm not leaning in that direction (hence a last suggestion), but you never know. View Quote One last question, the red spring is designed for what ammo? 77 |
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[#31]
Quoted:
Thanks to all for taking the time to reply....I am developing a plan for this weekend...will update with more data. I am really wanting the 20 round Magpuls to work, these are my favorite mags. Did find one thing very interesting, took the springs out of a Gen 2 30 round and one of the Gen 3 20 round and the springs are exactly the same length, followers and springs will swap, but the spring bottom and floor plates don't like each other, do not fit together. One last question, the red spring is designed for what ammo? 77 View Quote |
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[#32]
Update, August 6, 2017
Webt to the range this morning. As some suggested, I started with the red spring, Tetra spray lubricant on the spring before inserting into the buffer tube. The red spring is about 3 inches long than the whit spring. First time to take the red spring out of the shipping tube. Mag 7 (20 round Pmag), PMC, .223, 55 grain. Rounds 1 and 2, OK FTF on loading round 3. Same as before, brass ejects, follow up round is partially stripped from the magazine. Drop magazine, round falls out, load back into magazine, 6 FTF, 8 FTF, 12 FTF....gave up Switched to Brownells Aluminum, PMC, same ammo as above, out of the first 10 rounds, 5 FTFs Mag 2 (20 round Pmag), Federal M193, no issues, all 20 rounds functioned, bolt locked back Mag 9 (20 round Pmag) Federal American Eagle, .223, 20 rounds, no issues, did not lock back on last round Mag 3 Winchester Whit Box, not even funny, disaster, 5 rounds, 4 FTFs, not even stripping rounds from mag, dead trigger. Mag 5 Federal Green Tip, 20 rounds, no issues, locked on last round Enough of the red spring, switched back to the white spring. Here is where it gets interesting Mag 7 (20 round Pmag), PMC, no FTFs, did not lock back on last round Mag 3 (20 round Pmag), Federal M193, no FTFs, locked back on last round Mag 8 (20 round Pmag), PMC, 2 shot FTF, rest of mag OK, did not back on last round. Conclusion: I dont think it is the mag type/manufacturer. The rifle cycles higher powered ammo, the red spring is for higher power ammo. The rifle does not like PMC nor WWB. Am I comfortable with running only high end ammo, FGMM, Green Tip, Higher powered 5.56. yes, but I wish the rifle would cycle PMC and WWB. Not sure what I am going to do next.... 77 |
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[#33]
Quoted:
Update, August 6, 2017 Webt to the range this morning. As some suggested, I started with the red spring, Tetra spray lubricant on the spring before inserting into the buffer tube. The red spring is about 3 inches long than the whit spring. First time to take the red spring out of the shipping tube. Mag 7 (20 round Pmag), PMC, .223, 55 grain. Rounds 1 and 2, OK FTF on loading round 3. Same as before, brass ejects, follow up round is partially stripped from the magazine. Drop magazine, round falls out, load back into magazine, 6 FTF, 8 FTF, 12 FTF....gave up Switched to Brownells Aluminum, PMC, same ammo as above, out of the first 10 rounds, 5 FTFs Mag 2 (20 round Pmag), Federal M193, no issues, all 20 rounds functioned, bolt locked back Mag 9 (20 round Pmag) Federal American Eagle, .223, 20 rounds, no issues, did not lock back on last round Mag 3 Winchester Whit Box, not even funny, disaster, 5 rounds, 4 FTFs, not even stripping rounds from mag, dead trigger. Mag 5 Federal Green Tip, 20 rounds, no issues, locked on last round Enough of the red spring, switched back to the white spring. Here is where it gets interesting Mag 7 (20 round Pmag), PMC, no FTFs, did not lock back on last round Mag 3 (20 round Pmag), Federal M193, no FTFs, locked back on last round Mag 8 (20 round Pmag), PMC, 2 shot FTF, rest of mag OK, did not back on last round. Conclusion: I dont think it is the mag type/manufacturer. The rifle cycles higher powered ammo, the red spring is for higher power ammo. The rifle does not like PMC nor WWB. Am I comfortable with running only high end ammo, FGMM, Green Tip, Higher powered 5.56. yes, but I wish the rifle would cycle PMC and WWB. Not sure what I am going to do next.... 77 View Quote |
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[#34]
Quoted:
Send the rifle to me for disposal or run the rifle with the Red spring and use Federal M193 or Federal green tip and enjoy shooting it. Try some federal 69 or 77 grain gold medal match and really see it perform. Happy shooting all! View Quote FGMM or Hornady, the rifle likes both of these. Thanks, 77 |
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[#35]
MagTech and Prvi in 556 are as cheap as PMC. Wolf Gold is cheaper. In 223 fiocchi, aguila, and AE are all as cheap as PMC. I won't even buy PMC and WWB for 223 in the first place. Those are online prices.
AE 223 with white spring looks to be your cheap round that works that has been tested. |
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[#36]
Quoted:
MagTech and Prvi in 556 are as cheap as PMC. Wolf Gold is cheaper. In 223 fiocchi, aguila, and AE are all as cheap as PMC. I won't even buy PMC and WWB for 223 in the first place. Those are online prices. AE 223 with white spring looks to be your cheap round that works that has been tested. View Quote |
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[#37]
Latest and last update on the issues....
Went to range again this morning, brought the following ammo with me: Federal M193 Federal GMM Federal Green Tip Federal Black, 75 grain .223 Federal Super Match, 75 grain BTHP .223 Winchester White Box, 55 grain 5.56 PMC OBR with white spring All ran perfect, one round lock back, multiple round lock back, even the PMC in an aluminum mag ran great. Fired the PMC three round fast burst. Taking the PMC out of the equation, the rifle really likes the 75/77 grain ammo, grouping excellent, Federal GMM, Black and Super Match all less than 1 MOA. Problem solved, shoot the rifle, more break in, use high end Federal ammo, I can live with that. Thanks for all of the guidance and comments. 77 |
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