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Funny, I talked to tech support yesterday and they said "i never heard of this" with the 30 round mags. I also asked specifically what changes were made to the gen3 and they said that a small change was made to the 20 round mag and NO change to the 30 round mag. Who is right? I hope it was fixed but how many defective mags are in the hands of citizens and Law Enforcement that have no clue of a problem with there mags. Where can I get these improved mags? The mags being shipped are a year old. RECALL EVERY MAGAZINE BEFORE AN INCIDENT OCCURS! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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We have made a number of minor changes to M3 magazines through production. Same thing with the M2 magazine. Anyone having any issues with any PMag let us know and we will investigate and make it right. This feedback helps to consistently apply improvements and build a better magazine. If you have any issues that remain unresolved please contact me directly and I will take care of it. Funny, I talked to tech support yesterday and they said "i never heard of this" with the 30 round mags. I also asked specifically what changes were made to the gen3 and they said that a small change was made to the 20 round mag and NO change to the 30 round mag. Who is right? I hope it was fixed but how many defective mags are in the hands of citizens and Law Enforcement that have no clue of a problem with there mags. Where can I get these improved mags? The mags being shipped are a year old. RECALL EVERY MAGAZINE BEFORE AN INCIDENT OCCURS! Since you're talking to the people who run the company here and not their customer service reps...... And why are you calling CS reps when we've had these guys speaking here, and you already know the answer to the questions? Stop trying to pick a fight, and let magpul do their thing. A recall doesn't seem to make sense here, I've got about 100 of these things, some of which were produced during this timeframe, and I've never been able to duplicate the issue. If I do, I'll send it back and they'll make it right. I've had the second round work its way up, but it stops before it becomes an issue. This isn't an issue that will get me killed, and yes, I am both LE and Military. |
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I called them today and the guy said he was looking at my email, but yet he did not respond to it. .hmm... but because I called him he said he will replace them no problem. He also said that He never heard of a problem with the 30rd mags. B.S. They will not admit that there is a problem. He was rude the whole time acting like I was making this up. I told him I'll make a video and post it on youtube and send it to them. He replied with a NO. Well here it is, let me know what you all think. I'm not letting this issue go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QNQ7IOl5sk&feature=youtu.be View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I've now emailed them at tech support as well as customer service. No response from either dept. but I assume they have a very high volume of emails to answer. What is the typical time for a response? I called them today and the guy said he was looking at my email, but yet he did not respond to it. .hmm... but because I called him he said he will replace them no problem. He also said that He never heard of a problem with the 30rd mags. B.S. They will not admit that there is a problem. He was rude the whole time acting like I was making this up. I told him I'll make a video and post it on youtube and send it to them. He replied with a NO. Well here it is, let me know what you all think. I'm not letting this issue go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QNQ7IOl5sk&feature=youtu.be From your attitude in this thread, I'm not surprised you would feel this way. If you're a dick to someone trying to help you, who are you to expect them to remain civil? Like others have said, it takes time, and massive testing to confirm a problem AND is solution. Shit doesn't magically appear in the toilet. So, if you're this upset with your mags, get rid of them. Or, be a nice customer, be informative of the problem, and above all, BE PATIENT FOR A SOLUTION. Your attitude is all wrong, and if your really in a "job" where your life depends on these mags working, you have a horrible level of professionalism. Especially if you're a cop, I can tell simply from your text, you're a dick headed cop. I only have 3 Gen3 mags, all with early stamps, may, June, and April think. I cannot replicate this problem at all. You may have found a glitch, which takes a number of "prefect" conditions to replicate. Not saying you're wrong, just saying I'm not able to replicate the issue with mags of the same date code. Frankly, I'm just tired of people and their false sense of entitlement. There is a very simple solution to your problem, but being a cop may limit your ability for simple reasoning. Sell your mags, and go buy your precious Lancer mags. Or better yet, just stick with good old fashioned usgi mags, with magpul followers of course. |
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The issue of the second round moving is limited to making the magazine harder to insert with some ammunition but it does not affect function during live fire. We are confirming nothing has changed on this with the guys from Dynamics doing some live fire testing today at the range.
On the M3 20 rounders this was a more apparent issue as the magazine would not seat at all but in the case of the M3 30 rounders function of the magazine is unhindered when inserted and fired from the weapon. Stand by for an update once the range testing has been completed and we can review the results. |
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The issue of the second round moving is limited to making the magazine harder to insert with some ammunition but it does not affect function during live fire. We are confirming nothing has changed on this with the guys from Dynamics doing some live fire testing today at the range. On the M3 20 rounders this was a more apparent issue as the magazine would not seat at all but in the case of the M3 30 rounders function of the magazine is unhindered when inserted and fired from the weapon. Stand by for an update once the range testing has been completed and we can review the results. View Quote That's a negative Ghostrider. The reason I contacted you in the first place is because the 2nd round popping up is what is causing difficulty with magazine insertion. You guys keep looking at this a a "live fire" problem. It is not a live fire problem. It is a loading and seating problem. I've gone back 5 or 6 times now and checked that the mags are behaving as stated previously, just to make sure I wasn't loosing my mind. Unlike some others here, I have faith that you guys will fix the problem. |
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Quoted: Funny, I talked to tech support yesterday and they said "i never heard of this" with the 30 round mags. I also asked specifically what changes were made to the gen3 and they said that a small change was made to the 20 round mag and NO change to the 30 round mag. Who is right? I hope it was fixed but how many defective mags are in the hands of citizens and Law Enforcement that have no clue of a problem with there mags. Where can I get these improved mags? The mags being shipped are a year old. RECALL EVERY MAGAZINE BEFORE AN INCIDENT OCCURS! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: We have made a number of minor changes to M3 magazines through production. Same thing with the M2 magazine. Anyone having any issues with any PMag let us know and we will investigate and make it right. This feedback helps to consistently apply improvements and build a better magazine. If you have any issues that remain unresolved please contact me directly and I will take care of it. Funny, I talked to tech support yesterday and they said "i never heard of this" with the 30 round mags. I also asked specifically what changes were made to the gen3 and they said that a small change was made to the 20 round mag and NO change to the 30 round mag. Who is right? I hope it was fixed but how many defective mags are in the hands of citizens and Law Enforcement that have no clue of a problem with there mags. Where can I get these improved mags? The mags being shipped are a year old. RECALL EVERY MAGAZINE BEFORE AN INCIDENT OCCURS! I watched your video How many people flick a mag like that? Who taught you how to insert a magazine? Load them to 30 rounds like they are designed for and put that magazine in with some authority and you wont have any problems |
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That's a negative Ghostrider. The reason I contacted you in the first place is because the 2nd round popping up is what is causing difficulty with magazine insertion. You guys keep looking at this a a "live fire" problem. It is not a live fire problem. It is a loading and seating problem. I've gone back 5 or 6 times now and checked that the mags are behaving as stated previously, just to make sure I wasn't loosing my mind. Unlike some others here, I have faith that you guys will fix the problem. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The issue of the second round moving is limited to making the magazine harder to insert with some ammunition but it does not affect function during live fire. We are confirming nothing has changed on this with the guys from Dynamics doing some live fire testing today at the range. On the M3 20 rounders this was a more apparent issue as the magazine would not seat at all but in the case of the M3 30 rounders function of the magazine is unhindered when inserted and fired from the weapon. Stand by for an update once the range testing has been completed and we can review the results. That's a negative Ghostrider. The reason I contacted you in the first place is because the 2nd round popping up is what is causing difficulty with magazine insertion. You guys keep looking at this a a "live fire" problem. It is not a live fire problem. It is a loading and seating problem. I've gone back 5 or 6 times now and checked that the mags are behaving as stated previously, just to make sure I wasn't loosing my mind. Unlike some others here, I have faith that you guys will fix the problem. That IS what I am saying. Once the mag is inserted, even with this issue it does not hinder live fire operation of the magazine. On the M3 20 rounder the issue caused the mag not to seat. On the M3 30 rounder there are some magazine/ammo combinations that might make take more pressure to seat but once seated then the mag will run as per normal. We are going through the testing results and will have some definitive information tomorrow. |
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I watched your video How many people flick a mag like that? Who taught you how to insert a magazine? Load them to 30 rounds like they are designed for and put that magazine in with some authority and you wont have any problems View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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We have made a number of minor changes to M3 magazines through production. Same thing with the M2 magazine. Anyone having any issues with any PMag let us know and we will investigate and make it right. This feedback helps to consistently apply improvements and build a better magazine. If you have any issues that remain unresolved please contact me directly and I will take care of it. Funny, I talked to tech support yesterday and they said "i never heard of this" with the 30 round mags. I also asked specifically what changes were made to the gen3 and they said that a small change was made to the 20 round mag and NO change to the 30 round mag. Who is right? I hope it was fixed but how many defective mags are in the hands of citizens and Law Enforcement that have no clue of a problem with there mags. Where can I get these improved mags? The mags being shipped are a year old. RECALL EVERY MAGAZINE BEFORE AN INCIDENT OCCURS! I watched your video How many people flick a mag like that? Who taught you how to insert a magazine? Load them to 30 rounds like they are designed for and put that magazine in with some authority and you wont have any problems I watched that video and completely disagree. He did not "flick" anything he simulated a quick mag insertion no different than what a soldier, police officer or competitive shooter do every damn day. USGI mags DO NOT DO THIS so it is unacceptable that the Gen 3's do. My 5/13 Gen 3 mags do the same thing. I like Magpul but I'm absolutely shocked this left their door. This isn't the first time they designed a magazine!!!!! |
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Several (if not all) of mine will do this. Until now I'd just figured it was some form of operator error.
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Try putting the mag in and out several times with force. If you do it slowly it works most of the time. In my opinion though, it should seat most of the time no matter what. What is the time stamp on your mags. Seems they may have addressed the problem. Update: They have done nothing. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I can't replicate your problem with my few M3's. Try putting the mag in and out several times with force. If you do it slowly it works most of the time. In my opinion though, it should seat most of the time no matter what. What is the time stamp on your mags. Seems they may have addressed the problem. Update: They have done nothing. The 2 I tried are both stamped 7-13. Can not replicate the problem no matter how hard I try. I have 5 more that are 9-13. Didn't try them, they are still in the wrap. Those are the only M3-30's I have. Everything else are M2-30's, 10 40rd mags and 2. 10rd mags. |
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The first is a photo of my 5/13 dated Gen 3 30 round that pops the second round up every time with every ammo when you insert the mag. The ammo in the photo is PMC bronze 55 grain. I have a bunch of this date code too.
Just tried my 40 round Gen 3 dated 2/14 also has this problem. That's the second photo. Not as bad as my 30's but still does it. My gen 2 in the last photo does not do this and all my USGI mags don't have this problem either " /> " /> " /> |
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to me this is not even an issue. It does not stop the rifle from feeding rounds nor does it jam.
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Exactly. Do they feed and function? If so, seems like a non issue. Looks like making a mountain out of a mole hill. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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to me this is not even an issue. It does not stop the rifle from feeding rounds nor does it jam. Exactly. Do they feed and function? If so, seems like a non issue. Looks like making a mountain out of a mole hill. No it does not feed and function IF YOU CANT INSERT THE MAG! With 30 rounds loaded and the second round lifts up the mag will not lock into place. So tell me genius why this is no big deal? I'd love to hear your expertise. |
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No it does not feed and function IF YOU CANT INSERT THE MAG! With 30 rounds loaded and the second round lifts up the mag will not lock into place. So tell me genius why this is no big deal? I'd love to hear your expertise. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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to me this is not even an issue. It does not stop the rifle from feeding rounds nor does it jam. Exactly. Do they feed and function? If so, seems like a non issue. Looks like making a mountain out of a mole hill. No it does not feed and function IF YOU CANT INSERT THE MAG! With 30 rounds loaded and the second round lifts up the mag will not lock into place. So tell me genius why this is no big deal? I'd love to hear your expertise. If it doesn't seat properly and the mag falls out of the mag well, just say: pew pew pew pew pew pew pew -- make sure not to say pew more than once per pull of the trigger. I don't see a problem... |
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I haven’t jumped in here ‘til now because we do in fact take every customer issue very seriously, and we wanted to do some additional testing of past and current product in order to have the most complete and absolute information. Although we looked at this exact occurrence in the PMAG30 in initial pre-release testing and again back when we looked at the PMAG20, we cleaned off the calendar and got busy at the range.
We’ve spent the last few days re-validating lab and range testing regarding the GEN M3 magazine and the behavior of the top two rounds, which we call “transposition”, just to make sure that nothing had changed, and that current results matched previous efforts. All molds, variants, and sizes have been looked at. Since this thread got me out of the office and on the range, which I generally appreciate, I’ll give you the long version, so everyone that wants to wade through it will have the complete picture. Bear with me, it’s all relevant. If you get bored with my rambling at any point, you can skip to the “Cliffs Notes” summary at the end. The GEN M3 project began when we had accumulated significant enough advances in certain technologies to make a meaningful difference in some performance aspects, and to achieve universal fitment with Colt/M16/M4 and compatible platforms as well as platforms with the HK416/SA80 magwell. Although we already had a great track record in combat use and in many of these categories with the GENM2 or MREV PMAG, we never stop improvement efforts. Some of the aspects that we sought and achieved improvement on were drop-free performance in min-spec magwells, improved stiffness, strength, and durability, improved performance in cold weather to -60 deg F, improved performance in dust and grit, and overall feeding reliability. These efforts resulted in a magazine that has been successful in achieving our goals, and that we are confident is the most reliable and durable magazine available. We’ve got over a quarter of a million rounds downrange at this point, it’s been through field trials with military units, it’s in law enforcement service, it’s been downrange, it is used by many of the most successful competitive shooters and trainers in the world, and we continually test for QC. OK…this is where we tie this in to the issue at hand. I’ll talk about what you are seeing, and then I’ll tell you what our test results show. This requires us to share more about the PMAG than we’d like, but here goes… Dust and grit are enemies of firearms and magazines in general. In current conflicts, as much or more so, than in any previous operational environment, these factors can be deadly if your gear can’t take it. The GEN M2 PMAG works very well in dust/grit tests, but we wanted to improve this with the Gen M3. Friction or drag on the stack/follower/individual rounds on the way to the chamber is what makes grit stop guns, and the PMAG combats this in numerous ways. Relevant to the current topic of discussion is the fact that we minimize the contact that the round has with other surfaces as much as possible. Less surface contact equals less drag. Feeding into the chamber is as important as when riding up the stack in the mag body. To minimize drag/friction, we minimize contact with mag/other cartridge surfaces while still completely and resiliently controlling feed geometry. To do this, you have to flirt with instability to some extent, and get the mix just right. Too much contact equals great control without optimized drag. Too little contact equals minimal drag and a mag that won’t feed worth a darn because presentation isn’t controlled. It’s a fine line. We’re always looking for ways to improve, but this is the best way we’ve found to do it, and it works very, very well. This transposition is rare in other magazines, but can occur in some of the samples we’ve tested, probably due to tolerance variation more than design intent due to the inconsistency of its occurrence. It may occur with a flick, a smack, or extended carry in a pouch depending on the sample, but is generally less likely than with a PMAG. All PMAGs play this balancing act very well, and especially in the GEN M3, this manifests itself in what may appear to be the rounds at the top of the stack having some “freedom”. With various manipulations of a loaded mag, you may indeed be able to induce this partial “transposition” of the top two rounds to a lesser or greater extent, depending a great deal on ammunition type/shoulder size. Smaller diameter ammunition shoulders, even a few thousandths, may allow this to occur more readily than larger diameter, but still in-spec ammunition. On a few of the PMAG20 GEN M3 magazines, there was enough of a tolerance stacking issue where you could indeed, with the right combination of gun, ammo, and mag, induce a failure that would not allow seating, but we have not seen that since the fix for those affected mags, or in any other magazines across the entire line, without deliberately setting up a failure by prying up the round with a tool, to the same extent that you can do that in any other magazine, and believe me, we’ve tested a lot of combinations. The PMAG20 was long ago corrected, and we monitor this in QC with all mags. As long as loaded rounds do not to creep forward enough to catch the front edge of the mag when you try to insert it (possible with any magazine…try it) you should have no problem inserting and locking the magazine on a closed bolt, regardless of the position of the rounds with respect to this transposition occurrence. The required force may increase a bit, but we’ll get to how much in a minute--certainly nothing unreasonable. The first time the bolt starts rearward, the stack self-corrects, if it hasn’t already self-corrected on insertion. If I had a nickel for every time we’ve tested this on the GEN M3 mags to prove it, I’d be typing this from a hammock in Fiji. To illustrate what I’m talking about, I’ll cover some of our testing. In the lab, we assemble magazines from every line, deliberately induce a transposition with a variety of ammunition, and then measure insertion force on a closed bolt with a fixture and a force gauge. FWIW, the normal force required to seat a fully loaded PMAG on a closed bolt, depending on firearm and ammunition, is around 14-17lbs. The worst cases of transposition induced by any method other than using a tool to deliberately pry a round up require a closed bolt seating pressure of 28-31lbs, and most are less. You may say, “Whoa, there…that’s double!” However, when you put it in context, it changes a bit. The seating force required to seat an ideal condition USGI loaded with 28, 29, or 30 rounds (We baseline all 3 loading conditions) averages 15-21 lbs, and when we set up transpositions on the USGI by impacts to the magazine, flicking, or in some cases prying as with the worst case deliberate PMAG transpositions, the force varied from 32-47lbs, with some outliers in the 50’s and 60’s. The transposition occurs more readily in most, but not all combinations of PMAG and ammunition, than in other magazines, as it should…because this is a side-effect of our intended geometry. However, in magazines where it occurs more easily, it also CORRECTS more easily, and the force variability is smaller. This should put the numbers in perspective, and yes, we have people who spend days at a time beating, flicking, slapping, dropping and abusing magazines and then putting them into rifles using a force gauge. We wouldn’t be what we are without them. On the range we do variations of this in actual usage as well as in set ups that are more regimented. The Product Management/Dynamics portion of this testing this week, to exhaustively vet the issue with our crew personally prior to writing this, went something like this: Loaded magazines, samples from each line, tac reloading: Fire 2 rounds, tactical reload, fire 2 rounds, etc. Between tactical reloads, magazines were handled in a manner that attempted to deliberately induce the transposition. Load magazines fully. With an already loaded chamber, deliberately set up a transposition. If we couldn’t get it by other means, we’d pry the round up with another loaded round or knife blade until we got a nasty one. Insert and lock the mag, assessing required force. Fire 3 rounds. Remove magazine. Repeat setup and firing until mag empty. Load mags. Place in plate carrier. Do “burpees”, run sprints, roll on ground, slap mag pouches, chest bump, etc., then tac reload repeatedly to cycle through mags in carrier to see to what seating forces we’d see and see if we could unintentionally get transpositions. Repeat with various numbers of rounds in magazine, below maximum capacity. Here’s what I can tell you about the PMAG GEN M3. In the thousands of times we’ve deliberately set these transpositions up previously, and in the hundreds of times today, not in ANY case have we been able to cause a malfunction of the firearm. EVERY time, it has fired, ejected, and fed flawlessly from a deliberate attempt to get the nastiest condition possible. The only time that significant force was required to seat the mag was when the transposition had to be forcibly created with a prying tool in a specific magazine/ammunition combination. In these combinations, unintentional transpositions or transpositions using any method besides prying were simply not possible, and had to be forced—just like you can do with any other magazine. All other seating forces were in line with the previous ranges in lab testing. (Regardless of seating force, once again…100% reliability in function) In tactical reloading/closed bolt reloading, in actual usage or field/range testing, we have NEVER seen a case where this issue prevented magazine insertion. Increased force required tending toward the higher end of the previously discussed range, occasionally? Yes, but it’s not something you notice more than casually when using a sound push/pull mag swap, unless you are specifically looking for it. So…is there a safety of use or reliability issue? No, if the magazine is inserted and locked in the rifle the magazine will run normally. “Cliffs Notes” summary if you got tired halfway through: The occurrence referenced by the OP is a side effect of design geometry that aids magazine function in adverse conditions by minimizing round contact with other surfaces at and near feeding position. The only “negative” implications of this “transposition” effect is an occasional increase in closed bolt seating force over “ideal” round stack conditions. This seating force may vary slightly based on ammunition tolerances and magwell size in the host firearm, but in all but willfully deliberate setups requiring the use of a prying tool, falls well within the realm of normal closed bolt insertion pressures for USGI and other competing magazines. I can bore you with standard deviations from the mean, etc., but I’ll spare you the pain. Although this transposition naturally occurs more rarely in USGI and other magazines, it can be induced in many samples through rough handling without prying, and it can indeed be induced with a prying tool, just like in the forced setups we had to do in many of our PMAG test combinations. These transpositions, especially in a USGI, may appear less significant, but may require much more force to seat when they occur. In THOUSANDS of deliberate setups, at no time has this occurrence EVER caused a failure to feed or function in all of our body of testing. With the exception of the previously corrected batch of GEN M3 20rd mags, in no case, in our entire body of testing of PMAGs (or any other mags, for that matter) has a transposition caused an inability to seat the mag unless the transposition was so difficult to induce as to require a prying tool of some sort, and be completely out of the realm of anything we’ve ever seen occur through any other means. This type of transposition is duplicatible in ANY AR-pattern magazine. What we are going to do: Although we have not seen any incidences in a vast body of testing where this occurrence creates any functional concern, we will set in place a tighter tolerance level in the area of the Gen M3s that allows this transposition to happen in order to address the perception of a problem. This will resolve any issue of noticeably higher force to insert a magazine in the most extreme cases, and even further reduce the likelihood of unintentional occurrence of transposition that affects insertion in any meaningful way. The vast majority of Gen M3s already fielded are already within this tolerance, and our ongoing testing shows that we do not lose any adverse condition function with magazines on the tighter end of this acceptable window, so there is no reason to not clamp it down a bit. Anyone with Gen M3 magazines that require more force than they feel is acceptable or normal to insert can contact us for a one for one replacement with Gen M3 magazines that will be tested to be within the tighter end of the tolerance range. Those who are comfortable with the insertion characteristics of their existing magazines can rest assured that there are absolutely zero reliability or functional concerns. R, Duane |
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The only time that significant force was required to seat the mag was when the transposition had to be forcibly created with a prying tool in a specific magazine/ammunition combination. In these combinations, unintentional transpositions or transpositions using any method besides prying were simply not possible, and had to be forced—just like you can do with any other magazine. All other seating forces were in line with the previous ranges in lab testing. (Regardless of seating force, once again…100% reliability in function) In tactical reloading/closed bolt reloading, in actual usage or field/range testing, we have NEVER seen a case where this issue prevented magazine insertion. Increased force required tending toward the higher end of the previously discussed range, occasionally? Yes, but it’s not something you notice more than casually when using a sound push/pull mag swap, unless you are specifically looking for it. View Quote Though featured in fatty239's Youtube video, I believe the mag insert issue is completely unrelated to the transposition issue. I experienced insert/magazine catch failure (video time 3:10) with no transposition whatsoever. So, like I said, the Youtube video makes the two issues appear related; I think they are not. It's two separate issues. |
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No it does not feed and function IF YOU CANT INSERT THE MAG! With 30 rounds loaded and the second round lifts up the mag will not lock into place. So tell me genius why this is no big deal? I'd love to hear your expertise. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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to me this is not even an issue. It does not stop the rifle from feeding rounds nor does it jam. Exactly. Do they feed and function? If so, seems like a non issue. Looks like making a mountain out of a mole hill. No it does not feed and function IF YOU CANT INSERT THE MAG! With 30 rounds loaded and the second round lifts up the mag will not lock into place. So tell me genius why this is no big deal? I'd love to hear your expertise. With the magazine in the condition picture, the magazine will insert and lock, at least thats the case when I've replicated that. It seems that the rounds have to go up substantially further than that photo in order to cause issues locking in. So geeniass, there ya have your expamarert opiniun. |
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Though featured in fatty239's Youtube video, I believe the mag insert issue is completely unrelated to the transposition issue. I experienced insert/magazine catch failure (video time 3:10) with no transposition whatsoever. So, like I said, the Youtube video makes the two issues appear related; I think they are not. It's two separate issues. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The only time that significant force was required to seat the mag was when the transposition had to be forcibly created with a prying tool in a specific magazine/ammunition combination. In these combinations, unintentional transpositions or transpositions using any method besides prying were simply not possible, and had to be forced—just like you can do with any other magazine. All other seating forces were in line with the previous ranges in lab testing. (Regardless of seating force, once again…100% reliability in function) In tactical reloading/closed bolt reloading, in actual usage or field/range testing, we have NEVER seen a case where this issue prevented magazine insertion. Increased force required tending toward the higher end of the previously discussed range, occasionally? Yes, but it’s not something you notice more than casually when using a sound push/pull mag swap, unless you are specifically looking for it. Though featured in fatty239's Youtube video, I believe the mag insert issue is completely unrelated to the transposition issue. I experienced insert/magazine catch failure (video time 3:10) with no transposition whatsoever. So, like I said, the Youtube video makes the two issues appear related; I think they are not. It's two separate issues. They are absolutely, unequivocally one and the same. There is absolutely nothing else it can possibly be, unless you are letting the nose of loaded rounds slide past the front of the magazine, or it is a firearm related issue, which I'm assuming it's not. If there was a remote, tiny, hint of a doubt about this statement, I would not be so adamant, but after exhaustively looking at every nuance of the design, function, operation, and idiosyncrasies of the GEN M3 PMAG since the first shots in 2012, there is absolutely no other possibility that would be in any way related to the magazine. If you are unhappy, though, please contact customer service to swap them out. |
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They are absolutely, unequivocally one and the same. There is absolutely nothing else it can possibly be, unless you are letting the nose of loaded rounds slide past the front of the magazine, or it is a firearm related issue, which I'm assuming it's not. If there was a remote, tiny, hint of a doubt about this statement, I would not be so adamant, but after exhaustively looking at every nuance of the design, function, operation, and idiosyncrasies of the GEN M3 PMAG since the first shots in 2012, there is absolutely no other possibility that would be in any way related to the magazine. If you are unhappy, though, please contact customer service to swap them out. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The only time that significant force was required to seat the mag was when the transposition had to be forcibly created with a prying tool in a specific magazine/ammunition combination. In these combinations, unintentional transpositions or transpositions using any method besides prying were simply not possible, and had to be forced—just like you can do with any other magazine. All other seating forces were in line with the previous ranges in lab testing. (Regardless of seating force, once again…100% reliability in function) In tactical reloading/closed bolt reloading, in actual usage or field/range testing, we have NEVER seen a case where this issue prevented magazine insertion. Increased force required tending toward the higher end of the previously discussed range, occasionally? Yes, but it’s not something you notice more than casually when using a sound push/pull mag swap, unless you are specifically looking for it. Though featured in fatty239's Youtube video, I believe the mag insert issue is completely unrelated to the transposition issue. I experienced insert/magazine catch failure (video time 3:10) with no transposition whatsoever. So, like I said, the Youtube video makes the two issues appear related; I think they are not. It's two separate issues. They are absolutely, unequivocally one and the same. There is absolutely nothing else it can possibly be, unless you are letting the nose of loaded rounds slide past the front of the magazine, or it is a firearm related issue, which I'm assuming it's not. If there was a remote, tiny, hint of a doubt about this statement, I would not be so adamant, but after exhaustively looking at every nuance of the design, function, operation, and idiosyncrasies of the GEN M3 PMAG since the first shots in 2012, there is absolutely no other possibility that would be in any way related to the magazine. If you are unhappy, though, please contact customer service to swap them out. For me, I did not have the transposition issue and DID have the mag feed issue (video time 3:10). In my case, they were completely unrelated. I already had Magpul customer service swap them out for 2014 production that tested free of those problems. Don't let your Magpul loyalty blind you from the facts of the matter. |
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For me, I did not have the transposition issue and DID have the mag feed issue (video time 3:10). In my case, they were completely unrelated. I already had Magpul customer service swap them out for 2014 production that tested free of those problems. Don't let your Magpul loyalty blind you from the facts of the matter. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The only time that significant force was required to seat the mag was when the transposition had to be forcibly created with a prying tool in a specific magazine/ammunition combination. In these combinations, unintentional transpositions or transpositions using any method besides prying were simply not possible, and had to be forced—just like you can do with any other magazine. All other seating forces were in line with the previous ranges in lab testing. (Regardless of seating force, once again…100% reliability in function) In tactical reloading/closed bolt reloading, in actual usage or field/range testing, we have NEVER seen a case where this issue prevented magazine insertion. Increased force required tending toward the higher end of the previously discussed range, occasionally? Yes, but it’s not something you notice more than casually when using a sound push/pull mag swap, unless you are specifically looking for it. Though featured in fatty239's Youtube video, I believe the mag insert issue is completely unrelated to the transposition issue. I experienced insert/magazine catch failure (video time 3:10) with no transposition whatsoever. So, like I said, the Youtube video makes the two issues appear related; I think they are not. It's two separate issues. They are absolutely, unequivocally one and the same. There is absolutely nothing else it can possibly be, unless you are letting the nose of loaded rounds slide past the front of the magazine, or it is a firearm related issue, which I'm assuming it's not. If there was a remote, tiny, hint of a doubt about this statement, I would not be so adamant, but after exhaustively looking at every nuance of the design, function, operation, and idiosyncrasies of the GEN M3 PMAG since the first shots in 2012, there is absolutely no other possibility that would be in any way related to the magazine. If you are unhappy, though, please contact customer service to swap them out. For me, I did not have the transposition issue and DID have the mag feed issue (video time 3:10). In my case, they were completely unrelated. I already had Magpul customer service swap them out for 2014 production that tested free of those problems. Don't let your Magpul loyalty blind you from the facts of the matter. Esterhouse, I don't mean to be antagonistic, and I'm definitely not being blind--It's the sum total of the hands on experience I've had with these mags for over 2 years, not brand loyalty. Rarely, with some bolt carrier geometries, a minor transposition occurs when the rounds hit the bottom of the bolt carrier on insertion, with symptoms of increased seating force. The issue is the same, but you just can't see it happen. We've never seen it be an issue, but bottom line, if you are unhappy with the product or seeing something we're not, we'll fix it, and it sounds like CS has you taken care of. In any case, I'm glad your issue has been resolved, and thanks for being a Magpul Customer. |
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No it does not feed and function IF YOU CANT INSERT THE MAG! With 30 rounds loaded and the second round lifts up the mag will not lock into place. So tell me genius why this is no big deal? I'd love to hear your expertise. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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to me this is not even an issue. It does not stop the rifle from feeding rounds nor does it jam. Exactly. Do they feed and function? If so, seems like a non issue. Looks like making a mountain out of a mole hill. No it does not feed and function IF YOU CANT INSERT THE MAG! With 30 rounds loaded and the second round lifts up the mag will not lock into place. So tell me genius why this is no big deal? I'd love to hear your expertise. I worked at Barrett for 14 years. Helped with mag design and improvement for about8 of those years. The . 50 had some of the same issues. We designed in that similar "2 round tilt" to help feeding and alignment. Hope this satisfies your requirement for expertise. |
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This is the only hypothesis I have for the gen3s not engaging the magazine catch when shoved in quickly. For some Pmag gen3s, the distance from the top of the magazine catch recess to the top of the feed lips must, at some point, be a few thousandths greater than USGI and gen2 Pmags.
When the gen3s are pushed in slowly, perhaps the magazine polymer has time to warp or bend just by a few thousandths -- then the mag catch is able to engage the catch recess in the gen3s. If the magazine is quickly shoved into the mag well, the magazine doesn't have time to warp or bend thus the magazine catch just misses the top of the catch recess on the mag. To continue my hypothesis, the magazine spring pushing upward on the round stack of course increases pressure on the magazine feed lips from beneath and may be pushing the lips upward and outward perhaps, like I said, by only a few thousandths. This could account for my proposed increased length from the top of the catch recess to the lips. The phenomenon would mostly disappear with an unloaded magazine since the follower only puts pressure on the base of the feed lips closest to the magazine body instead of at the very top of the feed lips like the rounds do where the lips are thinner and less supported. |
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I worked at Barrett for 14 years. Helped with mag design and improvement for about8 of those years. The . 50 had some of the same issues. We designed in that similar "2 round tilt" to help feeding and alignment. Hope this satisfies your requirement for expertise. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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to me this is not even an issue. It does not stop the rifle from feeding rounds nor does it jam. Exactly. Do they feed and function? If so, seems like a non issue. Looks like making a mountain out of a mole hill. No it does not feed and function IF YOU CANT INSERT THE MAG! With 30 rounds loaded and the second round lifts up the mag will not lock into place. So tell me genius why this is no big deal? I'd love to hear your expertise. I worked at Barrett for 14 years. Helped with mag design and improvement for about8 of those years. The . 50 had some of the same issues. We designed in that similar "2 round tilt" to help feeding and alignment. Hope this satisfies your requirement for expertise. So because you supposedly were employed at Barrett working on 50 cal magazines you know my pmags are not having a problem? Are you retarded? Did you actually write that while you were sober? Troll somewhere else and get a life. Magpul: tomorrow I will set up a fixture using a very accurate refrigerant scale I have and measure what it will take to insert the mags and no its not deliberate transposition. If I were to guess I've pushed 40-50 lbs no problem on these and they will not lock. |
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So because you supposedly were employed at Barrett working on 50 cal magazines you know my pmags are not having a problem? Are you retarded? Did you actually write that while you were sober? Troll somewhere else and get a life. Magpul: tomorrow I will set up a fixture using a very accurate refrigerant scale I have and measure what it will take to insert the mags and no its not deliberate transposition. If I were to guess I've pushed 40-50 lbs no problem on these and they will not lock. View Quote 13er, 13ing as usually. The gift that keeps on giving. Didn't say I knew your problem. Just saying sometimes a little quirk in a mag is no big deal. Go ahead and get yourself all worked up. No biggie to me. If you are having problems with your mag. Learn how to load it correctly, maybe you won't have that problem. |
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So because you supposedly were employed at Barrett working on 50 cal magazines you know my pmags are not having a problem? Are you retarded? Did you actually write that while you were sober? Troll somewhere else and get a life. Magpul: tomorrow I will set up a fixture using a very accurate refrigerant scale I have and measure what it will take to insert the mags and no its not deliberate transposition. If I were to guess I've pushed 40-50 lbs no problem on these and they will not lock. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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to me this is not even an issue. It does not stop the rifle from feeding rounds nor does it jam. Exactly. Do they feed and function? If so, seems like a non issue. Looks like making a mountain out of a mole hill. No it does not feed and function IF YOU CANT INSERT THE MAG! With 30 rounds loaded and the second round lifts up the mag will not lock into place. So tell me genius why this is no big deal? I'd love to hear your expertise. I worked at Barrett for 14 years. Helped with mag design and improvement for about8 of those years. The . 50 had some of the same issues. We designed in that similar "2 round tilt" to help feeding and alignment. Hope this satisfies your requirement for expertise. So because you supposedly were employed at Barrett working on 50 cal magazines you know my pmags are not having a problem? Are you retarded? Did you actually write that while you were sober? Troll somewhere else and get a life. Magpul: tomorrow I will set up a fixture using a very accurate refrigerant scale I have and measure what it will take to insert the mags and no its not deliberate transposition. If I were to guess I've pushed 40-50 lbs no problem on these and they will not lock. Just send them in, please, and we'll get you new mags. I thought you already had new mags? If there's something else going on, we'll figure it out very quickly. |
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Just send them in, please, and we'll get you new mags. I thought you already had new mags? If there's something else going on, we'll figure it out very quickly. View Quote But how do I send them in? I keep contacting you guys (here, and via email) and nobody is telling me what steps to take to send them in. Do I just look up the mailing address from your site? Do I need to put a letter in the box? How do you want me to send them? |
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Well I took about 10 pmags gen2/gen3 out to the range today. Every one of my mags did this, where the second round popped up a bit just like in the pictures. However out of 4 ARs I did not have any issues in locking the mag into the catch. Nor did I have any malfunctions. I did notice if you have this issue and seat the mag, then take it back out the problem self corrects itself. I believe this to be a non issue and I will continue to use Pmags for my training and matches. Thanks Magpul!!!
ETA: I did have an lancer L5 with me and it did the exact same thing. Again a non issue. |
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I tried it and managed to replicate it in most of my Pmags, Gen 1 - 3. Gen 3 20 rounders seemed to be the 'easiest' to get it to work on. A good flick of the wrist or two and I really had to slam the magazine in to get it to catch on a closed bolt. You do notice the 2d round popping up. I do have the Hornady 75g TAP in these mags, M855 in the others. Open bolt, no problems. I always tap the rear of my magzines before inserting out of force of habit from the military and this removed the problem entirely. I'm still using Gen3 20's for my HD rifle setup and I'm not concerned, to be honest. I really like the Gen3's - the little 'digitized' bumps at the bottom and ridges on the front really make it more tactile.
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Quoted: But how do I send them in? I keep contacting you guys (here, and via email) and nobody is telling me what steps to take to send them in. Do I just look up the mailing address from your site? Do I need to put a letter in the box? How do you want me to send them? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Just send them in, please, and we'll get you new mags. I thought you already had new mags? If there's something else going on, we'll figure it out very quickly. But how do I send them in? I keep contacting you guys (here, and via email) and nobody is telling me what steps to take to send them in. Do I just look up the mailing address from your site? Do I need to put a letter in the box? How do you want me to send them? Call them Monday Morning, I even looked up the phone number for you Customer ServicePhone: 1 877-462-4785 |
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Magpul, I sent my mags back to you and weeks later you sent me back the same date code I sent you. I gave them a try and they are doing the same thing. I tried explaining the problem numerous times to customer service and they said they have never heard of this before but said if I have a Bushmaster or DPMS that i should never use M3's and switch to M2's. Im using these in a Colt 6920 which runs flawless with other brands and Pmag M2's. I tried the M3's in my Sig 556 which i know is not an AR but its doing the same thing. Ive called customer service first at least 6 times now before posting this so please don't accuse me of not giving your CS dept a chance to fix it
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Magpul, I sent my mags back to you and weeks later you sent me back the same date code I sent you. I gave them a try and they are doing the same thing. I tried explaining the problem numerous times to customer service and they said they have never heard of this before but said if I have a Bushmaster or DPMS that i should never use M3's and switch to M2's. Im using these in a Colt 6920 which runs flawless with other brands and Pmag M2's. I tried the M3's in my Sig 556 which i know is not an AR but its doing the same thing. Ive called customer service first at least 6 times now before posting this so please don't accuse me of not giving your CS dept a chance to fix it View Quote Here we go again! |
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Disappear and let the men talk. No room for ignorance when lives are at stake. Companies make better products when people like me use them in the real world and inform them of any issues. Go back to sleep. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Post count : check Join date: check Florida: check Disappear and let the men talk. No room for ignorance when lives are at stake. Companies make better products when people like me use them in the real world and inform them of any issues. Go back to sleep. I did not see any of these comments till you quoted them a like minded group of people we have here. |
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Magpul, I sent my mags back to you and weeks later you sent me back the same date code I sent you. I gave them a try and they are doing the same thing. I tried explaining the problem numerous times to customer service and they said they have never heard of this before but said if I have a Bushmaster or DPMS that i should never use M3's and switch to M2's. Im using these in a Colt 6920 which runs flawless with other brands and Pmag M2's. I tried the M3's in my Sig 556 which i know is not an AR but its doing the same thing. Ive called customer service first at least 6 times now before posting this so please don't accuse me of not giving your CS dept a chance to fix it View Quote Magpul are you out there??? This is unacceptable customer service still no response. Step up to the plate and fix the damn problem with the M3's. I want a person at Magpul management I can contact who actually knows what they are doing |
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Magpul are you out there??? This is unacceptable customer service still no response. Step up to the plate and fix the damn problem with the M3's. I want a person at Magpul management I can contact who actually knows what they are doing View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Magpul, I sent my mags back to you and weeks later you sent me back the same date code I sent you. I gave them a try and they are doing the same thing. I tried explaining the problem numerous times to customer service and they said they have never heard of this before but said if I have a Bushmaster or DPMS that i should never use M3's and switch to M2's. Im using these in a Colt 6920 which runs flawless with other brands and Pmag M2's. I tried the M3's in my Sig 556 which i know is not an AR but its doing the same thing. Ive called customer service first at least 6 times now before posting this so please don't accuse me of not giving your CS dept a chance to fix it Magpul are you out there??? This is unacceptable customer service still no response. Step up to the plate and fix the damn problem with the M3's. I want a person at Magpul management I can contact who actually knows what they are doing you are complaining about a problem that does not exist. Your issue does not affect reliability. Magpul has extensively tested this for you and I have as well. To me they have gone above and beyond for you and they have amazing customer service. If you dont like the product sell your pmags and try a different mag. |
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you are complaining about a problem that does not exist. Your issue does not affect reliability. Magpul has extensively tested this for you and I have as well. To me they have gone above and beyond for you and they have amazing customer service. If you dont like the product sell your pmags and try a different mag. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Magpul, I sent my mags back to you and weeks later you sent me back the same date code I sent you. I gave them a try and they are doing the same thing. I tried explaining the problem numerous times to customer service and they said they have never heard of this before but said if I have a Bushmaster or DPMS that i should never use M3's and switch to M2's. Im using these in a Colt 6920 which runs flawless with other brands and Pmag M2's. I tried the M3's in my Sig 556 which i know is not an AR but its doing the same thing. Ive called customer service first at least 6 times now before posting this so please don't accuse me of not giving your CS dept a chance to fix it Magpul are you out there??? This is unacceptable customer service still no response. Step up to the plate and fix the damn problem with the M3's. I want a person at Magpul management I can contact who actually knows what they are doing you are complaining about a problem that does not exist. Your issue does not affect reliability. Magpul has extensively tested this for you and I have as well. To me they have gone above and beyond for you and they have amazing customer service. If you dont like the product sell your pmags and try a different mag. Who the hell made you a spokesperson for Magpul? Who the hell are you to tell me I'm not having a problem??? |
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you are complaining about a problem that does not exist. Your issue does not affect reliability. Magpul has extensively tested this for you and I have as well. To me they have gone above and beyond for you and they have amazing customer service. If you dont like the product sell your pmags and try a different mag. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Magpul, I sent my mags back to you and weeks later you sent me back the same date code I sent you. I gave them a try and they are doing the same thing. I tried explaining the problem numerous times to customer service and they said they have never heard of this before but said if I have a Bushmaster or DPMS that i should never use M3's and switch to M2's. Im using these in a Colt 6920 which runs flawless with other brands and Pmag M2's. I tried the M3's in my Sig 556 which i know is not an AR but its doing the same thing. Ive called customer service first at least 6 times now before posting this so please don't accuse me of not giving your CS dept a chance to fix it Magpul are you out there??? This is unacceptable customer service still no response. Step up to the plate and fix the damn problem with the M3's. I want a person at Magpul management I can contact who actually knows what they are doing you are complaining about a problem that does not exist. Your issue does not affect reliability. Magpul has extensively tested this for you and I have as well. To me they have gone above and beyond for you and they have amazing customer service. If you dont like the product sell your pmags and try a different mag. What do you call this??? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_124/235389_Gen_M3_20_round_magpul_issues.html |
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What do you call this??? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_124/235389_Gen_M3_20_round_magpul_issues.html View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Magpul, I sent my mags back to you and weeks later you sent me back the same date code I sent you. I gave them a try and they are doing the same thing. I tried explaining the problem numerous times to customer service and they said they have never heard of this before but said if I have a Bushmaster or DPMS that i should never use M3's and switch to M2's. Im using these in a Colt 6920 which runs flawless with other brands and Pmag M2's. I tried the M3's in my Sig 556 which i know is not an AR but its doing the same thing. Ive called customer service first at least 6 times now before posting this so please don't accuse me of not giving your CS dept a chance to fix it Magpul are you out there??? This is unacceptable customer service still no response. Step up to the plate and fix the damn problem with the M3's. I want a person at Magpul management I can contact who actually knows what they are doing you are complaining about a problem that does not exist. Your issue does not affect reliability. Magpul has extensively tested this for you and I have as well. To me they have gone above and beyond for you and they have amazing customer service. If you dont like the product sell your pmags and try a different mag. What do you call this??? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_124/235389_Gen_M3_20_round_magpul_issues.html Reading is fundamental. The issue with the 20 rounders was identified and fixed in tooling a while back. Those 20 rounders affected are replaced at no charge. For the 30 rounders the transposition issue does not affect reliability or functionality of the magazine. Even then anyone concerned about this issue can swap our their magazines for newer versions with tighter tolerances. |
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After taking the time to re-read everything, and talking with Justin at length, I'm really glad they changed the dimensions of the mags to allow dust to move past the rounds.
Hardly a "defect" in my opinion. I've had nothing but hundreds of trouble free rounds out of a bunch of my gen3 pmags since this thread started. Sometimes, people can be resistant to (or even suspicious of) change. |
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I saw this thread title and was worried there was actually something messed up with the mags.
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