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http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2908/09rem5156acradprintread.jpg SUPER HUGE VERSION HERE http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2908/09rem5156acradprintread.jpg I looked at big picture. I just don't like what they've done with it now. If the Bushy version looks more like the Masada, I'll get one. Otherwise, I'll stick with my M4. /SIGH The handguards aren't part of the upper reciever. I'm sure they will offer the Masada like handguards in the civilian version considering they would lower the price considerably. OR Magpul might offer them as an accessory. Either way we win. |
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http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2908/09rem5156acradprintread.jpg SUPER HUGE VERSION HERE http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2908/09rem5156acradprintread.jpg I just noticed something, you cut off part of "(ADAPTIVE COMBAT RIFLE)". |
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Okay, kinda like it still, but can we get the old, 'traditional' handguard instead of the quad-rail?
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Quoted: Quoted: http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2908/09rem5156acradprintread.jpg SUPER HUGE VERSION HERE http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2908/09rem5156acradprintread.jpg I just noticed something, you cut off part of "(ADAPTIVE COMBAT RIFLE)". Fixed now they used some less than common fonts |
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http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2908/09rem5156acradprintread.jpg SUPER HUGE VERSION HERE http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2908/09rem5156acradprintread.jpg I looked at big picture. I just don't like what they've done with it now. If the Bushy version looks more like the Masada, I'll get one. Otherwise, I'll stick with my M4. /SIGH The handguards aren't part of the upper reciever. I'm sure they will offer the Masada like handguards in the civilian version considering they would lower the price considerably. OR Magpul might offer them as an accessory. Either way we win. Good call. I was pretty tired and loaded on painkillers when I wrote that (brand new M4, no prob finding the exact model I want, all the parts are showing up at the door, fragged elbow and I cant even lift it ) Definitely would have no problem ordering another MOE set (or whatever) to "fix" it. /Agree. That would be Win. |
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Doesn't make alot of sense to me how none of Magpuls AR parts (grips, trigger guards, stocks, etc) will be able to fit on this rifle. Seems like they would be shrinking their market instead of expanding it. Not to mention it limits your ability to custimize your rifle the way you want it.
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Doesn't make alot of sense to me how none of Magpuls AR parts (grips, trigger guards, stocks, etc) will be able to fit on this rifle. Seems like they would be shrinking their market instead of expanding it. Not to mention it limits your ability to custimize your rifle the way you want it. Completely different rifle from an AR. I'm sure MAGPUL will have some cool accessories for it. Rumor had it that SUREFIRE will have a dedicated built-in light handguard too. |
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Doesn't make alot of sense to me how none of Magpuls AR parts (grips, trigger guards, stocks, etc) will be able to fit on this rifle. Seems like they would be shrinking their market instead of expanding it. Not to mention it limits your ability to custimize your rifle the way you want it. i think Magpul said they didn't make it so Miads/moes, and triggers guards is because the molds would be to complicated or something like that, and why be stuck to AR type stocks? i think the Masada stocks look like they would be a lot better for "custom-abilities" sake( excluding the PRS because well its for AR too) |
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Ooohhh.... must have! -ZA |
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7.62x39??? LOL
Lets see if we get the rifle PERIOD before talking about other calibers. |
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Lets see if we get the rifle PERIOD before talking about other calibers. Or developing a line of cool looking handguards. |
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Is it just me or does that color look really odd? Well, at least there is some news about tthe Masada/ACR. Though I have to say and have always thougth, the changing of the name to ACR, I feel, really speaks volumes about the change in direction once Magpul sold the building rights.
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Lets see if we get the rifle PERIOD before talking about other calibers. Or developing a line of cool looking handguards. I don't need any cool new handguards. I liked the original handguards! The quad rails look... funny, and most of us don't need the rail space anyway. It does make sense on the military version, but maybe the civilian sales can get the old style? Maybe as an option? Never mind the fact that they will cost less than the quad rails. |
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Guys, if they sell it to LEOs through distributors, it will find it's way to the civvy market. Look at the LEO only Colts. Colt distributes their rifles with the LEO/GOV lowers (semi only) to all vendors since this is not an issue to own for civilians.. |
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Some things are not shown in the Remington ad.
1. Polymer Handguards (already manufactured) 2. PRS Style Stock (already manufactured) 3. Longer Railed Handguard with top rail extension (already designed and shown on Massoud at SHOT) 4. Longer Polymer Handguard (designed and shown with original concept rifle) |
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Some things are not shown in the Remington ad. 1. Polymer Handguards (already manufactured) 2. PRS Style Stock (already manufactured) 3. Longer Railed Handguard with top rail extension (already designed and shown on Massoud at SHOT) 4. Longer Polymer Handguard (designed and shown with original concept rifle) awesome Quick question though...did Remington ditch the integrated flip up BUIS? If so, will the MBUS be provided with the ACR? |
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So will we see these any time soon, within next year or so, or can you say? Is the Bushmaster going to be called the Masada or are they both going to be ACR? Are there any differences between the obvious fully auto? Sorry if I am asking to many nosy questions.
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Some things are not shown in the Remington ad. 1. Polymer Handguards (already manufactured) 2. PRS Style Stock (already manufactured) 3. Longer Railed Handguard with top rail extension (already designed and shown on Massoud at SHOT) 4. Longer Polymer Handguard (designed and shown with original concept rifle) Thanks for the Info Magpul. |
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Some things are not shown in the Remington ad. 1. Polymer Handguards (already manufactured) 2. PRS Style Stock (already manufactured) 3. Longer Railed Handguard with top rail extension (already designed and shown on Massoud at SHOT) 4. Longer Polymer Handguard (designed and shown with original concept rifle) Now if you could just get someone to build a rifle to go with those accessories. |
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Some things are not shown in the Remington ad. 1. Polymer Handguards (already manufactured) 2. PRS Style Stock (already manufactured) 3. Longer Railed Handguard with top rail extension (already designed and shown on Massoud at SHOT) 4. Longer Polymer Handguard (designed and shown with original concept rifle) Now if you could just get someone to build a rifle to go with those accessories. I was afraid that this thread wouldn't have the correct information to urine ratio. Thanks for fixing that for us, you stay classy. |
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Lets see if we get the rifle PERIOD before talking about other calibers. Or developing a line of cool looking handguards. I don't need any cool new handguards. I liked the original handguards! The quad rails look... funny, and most of us don't need the rail space anyway. It does make sense on the military version, but maybe the civilian sales can get the old style? Maybe as an option? Never mind the fact that they will cost less than the quad rails. /Agree. Makes sense on the military version, but I wouldn't be spending my money (directly) on something that would be issued to me I'm sure there will be more posts concerning new handguards if it ever makes it to market. Besides, Polymer is Progress! |
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Some things are not shown in the Remington ad. 1. Polymer Handguards (already manufactured) 2. PRS Style Stock (already manufactured) 3. Longer Railed Handguard with top rail extension (already designed and shown on Massoud at SHOT) 4. Longer Polymer Handguard (designed and shown with original concept rifle) I fail at reading to the end of the thread Glad Richard and them at Magpul post here to stave off some wild conjecture. |
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Guys, if they sell it to LEOs through distributors, it will find it's way to the civvy market. Look at the LEO only Colts. Colt distributes their rifles with the LEO/GOV lowers (semi only) to all vendors since this is not an issue to own for civilians.. I've heard that Colt doesn't want civvies to have any of the LE line, that's what I was going off of. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. |
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Guys, if they sell it to LEOs through distributors, it will find it's way to the civvy market. Look at the LEO only Colts. Colt distributes their rifles with the LEO/GOV lowers (semi only) to all vendors since this is not an issue to own for civilians.. I've heard that Colt doesn't want civvies to have any of the LE line, that's what I was going off of. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. Colt don't cair if they get ANY civilian business. See my sigline for more info. |
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Is it just me, or did the guy demonstrating the ACR seem to be not too conversant or practiced with the reloading aspect of the ACR? Granted, using your reloading thumb or your trigger finger to hit the bolt release is valid, but he seemed to fumble the mag release, and took his hand off fire control. Is that just me? |
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I thought that the GB had more than two settings? Is he saying on the vid that there are two?
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Is it just me, or did the guy demonstrating the ACR seem to be not too conversant or practiced with the reloading aspect of the ACR? Granted, using your reloading thumb or your trigger finger to hit the bolt release is valid, but he seemed to fumble the mag release, and took his hand off fire control. Is that just me? Jason S (Remington) is a Marine and was injured during combat ops in Iraq prior to his employment at Remington. He's a very sharp individual and a pleasure to work with. Any og his movements that may catch you off guard are due to injuries sustained while in combat. Nuff said, no hard feelings, no apologies necessary. Jason does not use his injuries as a crutch. He's a fine American. |
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One thing I noticed in that video is that they have a fully railed handguard. Maybe when it finally hits the civillian market, they will have an option for that original polymer handguard. It looked a lot better when it was being shown off as the Masada. The quad rail makes it look more like a SCAR.
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Is it just me, or did the guy demonstrating the ACR seem to be not too conversant or practiced with the reloading aspect of the ACR? Granted, using your reloading thumb or your trigger finger to hit the bolt release is valid, but he seemed to fumble the mag release, and took his hand off fire control. Is that just me? Jason S (Remington) is a Marine and was injured during combat ops in Iraq prior to his employment at Remington. He's a very sharp individual and a pleasure to work with. Any og his movements that may catch you off guard are due to injuries sustained while in combat. Nuff said, no hard feelings, no apologies necessary. Jason does not use his injuries as a crutch. He's a fine American. He still comes out and PTs when he comes out to Lejeune. He doesn't work for Remington though, he runs the weapons portion of Cebrus so he is somewhat in charge of several companies at this time. |
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Is it just me, or did the guy demonstrating the ACR seem to be not too conversant or practiced with the reloading aspect of the ACR? Granted, using your reloading thumb or your trigger finger to hit the bolt release is valid, but he seemed to fumble the mag release, and took his hand off fire control. Is that just me? Jason S (Remington) is a Marine and was injured during combat ops in Iraq prior to his employment at Remington. He's a very sharp individual and a pleasure to work with. Any og his movements that may catch you off guard are due to injuries sustained while in combat. Nuff said, no hard feelings, no apologies necessary. Jason does not use his injuries as a crutch. He's a fine American. He still comes out and PTs when he comes out to Lejeune. He doesn't work for Remington though, he runs the weapons portion of Cebrus so he is somewhat in charge of several companies at this time. Next time you talk to him ask him what his title is. Hell of a guy. |
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I've heard that Colt doesn't want civvies to have any of the LE line, that's what I was going off of. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. Well here's the deal the way I see it, and from a dealer's prospective: Colt sell the products to the Wholesalers that purchase directly from their factory, the wholesalers (at least the ones we deal with) have no stipulations * as to who the dealer may sell them to. "Letterhead accounts" ie LEO usually deal direct with Colt. The rollmarked "For Military or Law Enforcement Only" is just an appeasement that means nothing legally (so long as it's not FA) I'm not even positive Colt still marks their AR's that way....nobody ever wants to buy new Colt rifles anyways....usually Bushmaster or RRA's * Distributors/wholesalers generally will not sell "Pre/No ban" configured rifles to States with AW laws on the books (like NY) On another note: The shooter in the video should be cut some slack: I've watched guys that finger-fuck their AR's until the spatial mapping is perfect, then fumble like their hands were numb when under pressure.....it's tough to learn grace under pressure, especially if you've been combat trained with a particular design. |
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I've heard that Colt doesn't want civvies to have any of the LE line, that's what I was going off of. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. Well here's the deal the way I see it, and from a dealer's prospective: Colt sell the products to the Wholesalers that purchase directly from their factory, the wholesalers (at least the ones we deal with) have no stipulations * as to who the dealer may sell them to. "Letterhead accounts" ie LEO usually deal direct with Colt. The rollmarked "For Military or Law Enforcement Only" is just an appeasement that means nothing legally (so long as it's not FA) I'm not even positive Colt still marks their AR's that way....nobody ever wants to buy new Colt rifles anyways....usually Bushmaster or RRA's * Distributors/wholesalers generally will not sell "Pre/No ban" configured rifles to States with AW laws on the books (like NY) On another note: The shooter in the video should be cut some slack: I've watched guys that finger-fuck their AR's until the spatial mapping is perfect, then fumble like their hands were numb when under pressure.....it's tough to learn grace under pressure, especially if you've been combat trained with a particular design. Well, like I said, I've been wrong before. Also, my LE6920 was made late last year & it has the "For Military or Law Enforcement Only" roll mark. The ones that my local shop are newer & they have it too. And about the guy in the video, it looked like old habits kicked in & he was going to tap the left side of the rifle like you do for the bolt release on an AR/M-16/M-4 & realized what he was doing at the last split second, & I can't blame him for it. I imagine if I spent time in the service, trained & fought with one type of rifle & started using a rifle that had a few things layed out differently, it would make me do the same thing. |
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Jason S (Remington) is a Marine and was injured during combat ops in Iraq prior to his employment at Remington. He's a very sharp individual and a pleasure to work with. Any og his movements that may catch you off guard are due to injuries sustained while in combat. Nuff said, no hard feelings, no apologies necessary. Jason does not use his injuries as a crutch. He's a fine American. Next time you talk to him ask him what his title is. Hell of a guy. [/quote] Bottom of the vid said "VP, Global Military Products". |
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Jason S (Remington) is a Marine and was injured during combat ops in Iraq prior to his employment at Remington. He's a very sharp individual and a pleasure to work with. Any og his movements that may catch you off guard are due to injuries sustained while in combat. Nuff said, no hard feelings, no apologies necessary. Jason does not use his injuries as a crutch. He's a fine American. Next time you talk to him ask him what his title is. Hell of a guy. Bottom of the vid said "VP, Global Military Products".[/quote] It's always awesome to meet VPs and other people who breath air at higher altitudes. It's like when I was at the SPECOPS awards dinner earlier this year at Bragg and was yucking it up with a guy sitting at the table next to me in a tux. Later that evening....."I'd like to thank the president of Boeing for joining us here tonight.".... I turned bright red and almost choked on my wine. The only thing I picked up on when I first started talking to him was that he was able to instantly create a very engaging, entertaining, and personable conversation. Other than that he was just a cool guy. |
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Want... Me and you both buddy. Hang in there. <pats on shoulder> |
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I noticed something on the video.... The "One Rifle, Many Missions" Remington ad on page two depicts the gas port positioned sort of half under the hand guard. In the video, the gas block ( I don't know what it is called on the ACR but I'll assume its a gas block.), is forward of the hand guard. Is the video older than the ad or is there still a possibility that there will still be several different length systems?
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Is it just me, or did the guy demonstrating the ACR seem to be not too conversant or practiced with the reloading aspect of the ACR? Granted, using your reloading thumb or your trigger finger to hit the bolt release is valid, but he seemed to fumble the mag release, and took his hand off fire control. Is that just me? Jason S (Remington) is a Marine and was injured during combat ops in Iraq prior to his employment at Remington. He's a very sharp individual and a pleasure to work with. Any og his movements that may catch you off guard are due to injuries sustained while in combat. Nuff said, no hard feelings, no apologies necessary. Jason does not use his injuries as a crutch. He's a fine American. He still comes out and PTs when he comes out to Lejeune. He doesn't work for Remington though, he runs the weapons portion of Cebrus so he is somewhat in charge of several companies at this time. Next time you talk to him ask him what his title is. Hell of a guy. Title? head triggerpulling, knuckle draggin, badass, sounds right. In any case this looks great, good work. Nice to see that rifle again. Oh, and Im still gettin one. |
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At first I was intrigued, then amused... and now I do think that Magpul just might have pulled off the greatest internet Myth EVER!,
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At first I was intrigued, then amused... and now I do think that Magpul just might have pulled off the greatest internet Myth EVER!, Sweet you just added to your post count, oh look! I can do it too. Stay classy. |
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At first I was intrigued, then amused... and now I do think that Magpul just might have pulled off the greatest internet Myth EVER!, Sweet you just added to your post count, oh look! I can do it too. Stay classy. I agree with him. Magpul, a company with real vision and a supporter of civilian shooters (Or at least I thought) came out and said that they've got the best rifle coming out since sliced bread, and said it was for the civilian market first. It looked awesome! Had all the best attributes of the AR15, the G36, and asmattering of other designs. The gun nuts went wild! Every gun board was on fire talking about the future of rifles: The Masada. A rifle of that level of unbridled awesomeness couldn't be stopped... but it was. Then we learned the sad fate of the rifle, being that it was given to Bushmaster for them to produce, change the name etc. A company that is invested up to the gills in the AR15 platfom is NEVER going to make a product that is as far superior as the design of the Masada was. It'd be like Goodyear making tires that never wear out. Most of their tooling would be rendered obsolete in seconds, and what about all the Gas Piston Upper makers? When you can buy an entire far superior rifle for the same price as one of those uppers, well there's a dwindling market share if I ever saw it. Now we learn that it's going to go to LEO and Military sales only. Shouldn't be a problem, I've got both those covered, but it is the exact same level of treason as Ruger and Colt pulled back in the AWB days saying that they either would no longer sell to the civilian market (Colt) or won't sell hi cap mags to civilians if the powers that be agree not to ban their firearms (Ruger). This rifle was a non starter from the beginning. It was more of a "look what we can do" more than anything. |
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Then we learned the sad fate of the rifle, being that it was given to Bushmaster for them to produce, change the name etc. A company that is invested up to the gills in the AR15 platfom is NEVER going to make a product that is as far superior as the design of the Masada was. It'd be like Goodyear making tires that never wear out. Most of their tooling would be rendered obsolete in seconds, and what about all the Gas Piston Upper makers? When you can buy an entire far superior rifle for the same price as one of those uppers, well there's a dwindling market share if I ever saw it. Now we learn that it's going to go to LEO and Military sales only. I have a feeling that you're hyperventilating. It's never been stated that the rifle will law enforcement and military only, just that law enforcement and military sales are happening first. Magpul has explained this in the past as a way of getting feedback from people who make heavy use of their weapons. (Speaking as somebody who is neither a LEO nor a soldier, this strikes me as reasonable.) The Army Times article from a couple weeks ago mentioned that LE/Mil sales would be handled through Remington –– and Bushmaster would handle civilian sales. The last press release on the subject from Bushmaster indicated 'sales to select customers' 'in late 2009'. There was some scuttlebutt posted here a couple months back about Remington spinning up some production capacity for the rifle in the 3Q. Every indication is that nothing about the rifle's production schedule has changed in at least six months: if anything it is happening sooner. Chill out. |
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Its cool, Id buy one.....but I dont feel like Im undergunned with the AR's I got right now.
One of those in that FDE color in my safe would be schweet though. |
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Well then Canthros, we'll see won't we. If I were to make a prediction I'd say that this rifle will never see production.
I guess I've just got zero faith in a lot of the industry anymore. FN ($4000 SCAR) and HK's (G36 fiasco) usual crapping on the average guy, it wouldn't surprise me if Magpul fell into the same line. Here's the line: 1. Company comes out with cool gun gagetry, 2. People say, "Hey cool! I want that!" 3. Company says either a: $4000, or b: This is for L.E. ONLY 4. Average people shrug and wonder why we can't get gun gagetry. 5. Wash, rinse, repeat. I'd love it if they didn't, but I'm seldom surprised by the companies. |
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I guess I've just got zero faith in a lot of the industry anymore. FN ($4000 SCAR) and HK's (G36 fiasco) usual crapping on the average guy, it wouldn't surprise me if Magpul fell into the same line. Magpul's earned their chops on both the civilian and MIL/LEO markets. I would be surprised that they'd crap on those of us who are civilians and either refuse to sell the rifle to us or charge an ass-raping $4000 for it. It is true that Remington and Bushmaster are now driving the manufacturing, distribution, marketing and sales busses on this one. If there is any crapping to do, it will be by those two companies. But we've never seen them do that to their customers before, have we? |
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Well then Canthros, we'll see won't we. If I were to make a prediction I'd say that this rifle will never see production. I guess I've just got zero faith in a lot of the industry anymore. FN ($4000 SCAR) and HK's (G36 fiasco) usual crapping on the average guy, it wouldn't surprise me if Magpul fell into the same line. Here's the line: 1. Company comes out with cool gun gagetry, 2. People say, "Hey cool! I want that!" 3. Company says either a: $4000, or b: This is for L.E. ONLY 4. Average people shrug and wonder why we can't get gun gagetry. 5. Wash, rinse, repeat. I'd love it if they didn't, but I'm seldom surprised by the companies. I'm pretty sure that MSRP on the FN SCAR is actually about $2700, not $4K. I know that's the going price, but prices on anything new, bannable and in short supply right now are going to be elevated higher than the market already is. It's just supply and demand. HK's a different, and seems to have a fine reputation for truly awful customer service if your name isn't "Police Department" or "Army" or etc. I'm not exactly saying that you should hold your breath, but nothing that's been said lately has been bad, except, possibly, that the Bushmaster version's not in FDE. |
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I'm also unhappy with their choice of who they're going to farm the actual building of said rifle out to. I understand that they don't have the production capacity to meet the demand for the rifle by themselves, but farming it out to a conglomerate that has interests other than releasing this rifle to the public at large is a mistake. There were other choices they could have made that might have been in the interests of Magpul, the producing company, and the public at large all at the same time.
In the original press release they had an estimated MSRP of right around $1400. This isn't going to be another SCAR game? The guys at FN must be off their rocker to think people are going to pay $2700 for that rifle, with that said, what makes you think anything will be different with the Masada? (if they even decide to release the rifle at all) Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the company or their theoretical rifle, however I believe they made a huge mistake here. It's the reason I stand behind the statement that they just did it to say, "Look what we can do" and nothing else. Had that been different, rifles of the Masada design would be... getting sold out just like everything else right now, but it'd be released. |
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There were other choices they could have made that might have been in the interests of Magpul, the producing company, and the public at large all at the same time. Such as? Quoted:In the original press release they had an estimated MSRP of right around $1400. This isn't going to be another SCAR game? The guys at FN must be off their rocker to think people are going to pay $2700 for that rifle, with that said, what makes you think anything will be different with the Masada? (if they even decide to release the rifle at all)
1. Magpul has repeated the sub-$1500 pricepoint several times. (Here's a recent example.) No idea how much influence they have on that, but it doesn't sound like it will be Magpul's fault if the price is higher than that. (Granted, there's no word on what, exactly, you get for that: might be fixed stock and etc.) 2. They have repeatedly committed to the claim that the rifle will be released, including civilian sales. T 3. There is no pre-existing military contract for the rifle. Unless the Army takes a chance on a large order, civilian sales will probably dwarf LE/military orders for this rifle. While I wish them luck, I don't like the odds of the M4 being replaced with the ACR at this time. Quoted:Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the company or their theoretical rifle, however I believe they made a huge mistake here. It's the reason I stand behind the statement that they just did it to say, "Look what we can do" and nothing else. Had that been different, rifles of the Masada design would be... getting sold out just like everything else right now, but it'd be released.
I dunno. I don't really get the impression that they operate that way. If they'd just wanted to show off their chops, why license it to anyone? I'm going to duck out of this pretty shortly. I don't think there's enough information publicly available to debate this much farther. |
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