Benefits of two man units? - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Benefits of two man units?

Posted: 7/19/2016 12:07:39 AM EDT

Our chief is currently adamantly opposed to two man units in the current climate believing it makes two targets and will slow response time.

Line supervisors allow two man units if we have enough to get minimum cars on the street.

I love two man units. Our shift LT is asking for data, studies, research, on the benefits of two man units. If you guys have anything can you point me in the right direction to find some? I'm technotarded so my Google fu blows. My agency is high crime, high call load in an urban, poor, and downtrodden setting

Posted: 7/19/2016 4:32:11 AM EDT

[#1]

I'm not LEO but it seems a no-brainer to me. Two persons in a car means 2x the attention given to road, to suspects... Even as a security officer, I've been trained that the best way to conduct a suspicious interview is to have a backup!
I suspect your chief is toeing the line drawn by City Hall's budgets.

Posted: 7/19/2016 4:36:00 AM EDT

[#2]

1/2 the speeding tickets???

Really, officer safety, it's a no brainer.

Txl

Posted: 7/19/2016 7:17:19 AM EDT

[#3]

You can push the savings on fuel if the real reason (officer safety) isn't enough. I'm in somewhat the same boat, no two man units on patrol, but all of our specialized proactive units ride double, at least. Some of them will ride three to a car if they are issued tahoes

Posted: 7/19/2016 8:07:29 AM EDT

[#4]

Battle buddies how do they work? Couldn't take a crap down range with out someone watching your back. I see it no different in your current conflict.

Adam 12
Chips
Starkey and Hutch
Cagney and Lacey
End of Watch
Turner and Hooch

All teams of two

Posted: 7/19/2016 8:24:55 AM EDT

[#5]

You can take turns sleeping.

Posted: 7/19/2016 10:27:25 AM EDT

[#6]

Chief being a jerk? FILE A COMPLAINT

Posted: 7/19/2016 10:56:09 AM EDT

[#7]

I don't have stats and stuff, but the greatest benefit is that 2 cops are guaranteed to arrive simultaneously.

I think it's superior if 2 cops arrive simultaneously in separate units, but that's rare unless one waits. Sometimes one doesn't want to wait, and sometimes it's good that they don't.

I'd guess, statistically, it boils down to # of experienced officers per patrol area, rather than which unit(s) they're in. That's just my take on it though. It does allow one to rest. lol Or if searching/patrolling, it's going to increase the search efficiency per unit. One can drive while the other is working the net and coordinating an intercept, etc. A second man in the passenger seat firing a long gun would probably be the most desirable thing in a rolling shootout (if your policy allows participation in such activities). lol

Posted: 7/19/2016 3:06:38 PM EDT

[#8]

2013 Data:

- 62.7 percent of the officers who were assaulted were assigned to 1-officer vehicle patrols.
- 17.3 percent of the officers who were assaulted were assigned to 2-officer vehicle patrols.

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https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2013/officers-assaulted/assaults_topic_page_-2013

Historical officer ambush analysis by the IACP:

The vast majority (82%) of officers are alone at the time of the ambush.

View Quote

http://www.theiacp.org/Portals/0/documents/pdfs/Ambush_Project/IACP_Ambush_Fact_Sheet.pdf

I'd also add that two-officer units makes for safer use of in-vehicle equipment. The passenger can use the MDT and radio so that the driver isn't distracted with those, which is particularly useful when running code or in pursuits.

Posted: 7/19/2016 11:34:17 PM EDT

[#9]

Yea but it isn't viable for 99% of the departments in the US.

Posted: 7/20/2016 2:57:12 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Yea but it isn't viable for 99% of the departments in the US.

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His department already allows it if they have enough people. A ghetto hellhole area will have more cops than a county with 10,000 people.

It will slow response time to BS calls (delayed reports, etc) but for crimes in progress, two people guaranteed to arrive together is a bonus.

Posted: 7/20/2016 4:36:20 AM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:
Yea but it isn't viable for 99% of the departments in the US.

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It is for ours, we already send two officers to the same call 85% of the time so it wouldn't change response times. The other 15% are handled by the desk officer. We usually handle 15-25 calls per night per officer, including proactive/observed CFSs. 2nd trick and day trick handle more.

Posted: 7/20/2016 4:36:37 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
2013 Data:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2013/officers-assaulted/assaults_topic_page_-2013

Historical officer ambush analysis by the IACP:

http://www.theiacp.org/Portals/0/documents/pdfs/Ambush_Project/IACP_Ambush_Fact_Sheet.pdf

I'd also add that two-officer units makes for safer use of in-vehicle equipment. The passenger can use the MDT and radio so that the driver isn't distracted with those, which is particularly useful when running code or in pursuits.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:
2013 Data:

- 62.7 percent of the officers who were assaulted were assigned to 1-officer vehicle patrols.
- 17.3 percent of the officers who were assaulted were assigned to 2-officer vehicle patrols.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2013/officers-assaulted/assaults_topic_page_-2013

Historical officer ambush analysis by the IACP:

The vast majority (82%) of officers are alone at the time of the ambush.

http://www.theiacp.org/Portals/0/documents/pdfs/Ambush_Project/IACP_Ambush_Fact_Sheet.pdf

I'd also add that two-officer units makes for safer use of in-vehicle equipment. The passenger can use the MDT and radio so that the driver isn't distracted with those, which is particularly useful when running code or in pursuits.

thank you

Posted: 7/20/2016 1:51:30 PM EDT

[#13]

I think it's a super bad idea.

Posted: 7/20/2016 3:05:02 PM EDT

[#14]

I prefer working alone. I did it on mids for many years, survived several shoot incidents, and would do so again. It all depends on who you are working with because every Dept. has people who really should have become cooks or tailors or something. Every now and again they'd give me a young kid to show some things too, I didnt mind as long as he wasnt an A-hole but I never wanted to be a training officer. In fact very few good cops ever want to be a training officer.

That was the agreement. My partner and I would work mids as long as we could work cars alone. We'd make their pinches just leave us alone.

Boy 8 hours is a whole lot of minutes when you have the wrong guy sitting next to you.

Posted: 7/20/2016 3:07:00 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Every now and again they'd give me a young kid to show some things too, I didnt mind as long as he wasnt an A-hole but I never wanted to be a training officer. In fact very few good cops ever want to be a training officer.

View Quote

It was the same with us, they had to force guys to be training officers. The "training officers" when I left had only graduated the academy 6 months ahead of the guys they were "training".

Posted: 7/20/2016 4:12:02 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

It was the same with us, they had to force guys to be training officers. The "training officers" when I left had only graduated the academy 6 months ahead of the guys they were "training".

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Every now and again they'd give me a young kid to show some things too, I didnt mind as long as he wasnt an A-hole but I never wanted to be a training officer. In fact very few good cops ever want to be a training officer.

It was the same with us, they had to force guys to be training officers. The "training officers" when I left had only graduated the academy 6 months ahead of the guys they were "training".

Well its a joke. Ive never seen a recruit "failed" even tho many werent worth a damn and never will be. The city doesnt want the law suites or the allegations of sexism or racism even if the kid is as useless as tits on a bull.

So pretty much all your doing is wiping their ass's for about 6 mos. Many of them go from there to some inside spot where they are never heard from again. Or just become another lump in a uniform.

They even took away the satisfaction of getting a good aggressive kid who really wants to do well and will work to improve. This gig has turned into one where "work" often is what gets you jammed. The ones you never see all night are usually also the ones who never catch time on a beef. Nothing makes sense anymore but I'm thankful I'm old enough to remember good years.

Posted: 7/20/2016 4:18:36 PM EDT

[#17]

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Quoted:

Well its a joke. Ive never seen a recruit "failed" even tho many werent worth a damn and never will be.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Every now and again they'd give me a young kid to show some things too, I didnt mind as long as he wasnt an A-hole but I never wanted to be a training officer. In fact very few good cops ever want to be a training officer.

It was the same with us, they had to force guys to be training officers. The "training officers" when I left had only graduated the academy 6 months ahead of the guys they were "training".

Well its a joke. Ive never seen a recruit "failed" even tho many werent worth a damn and never will be.

They didn't even have a process in place for our guys to fail someone even if they wanted to. Not to mnetion that they had 1-2 guys "training" 40+ rookies.

Posted: 7/20/2016 4:59:31 PM EDT

[#18]

I'm baffled because when gas prices were high we were forced to double up

Posted: 7/20/2016 10:02:47 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

It was the same with us, they had to force guys to be training officers. The "training officers" when I left had only graduated the academy 6 months ahead of the guys they were "training".

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Every now and again they'd give me a young kid to show some things too, I didnt mind as long as he wasnt an A-hole but I never wanted to be a training officer. In fact very few good cops ever want to be a training officer.

It was the same with us, they had to force guys to be training officers. The "training officers" when I left had only graduated the academy 6 months ahead of the guys they were "training".

lol, and ours were academy instructors for the next class even though they weren't off probation just to get out of NYC and back upstate. Total clown shoes.

I used to laugh, we had guys with more academy time teaching one or two academies than they had working on the road.

Posted: 7/20/2016 11:08:00 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
1/2 the speeding tickets???

Really, officer safety, it's a no brainer.

Txl

View Quote

1/2 the productivity, visibility, and they seem to work less.

Not every call needs 2 cops. It is a big waste, except very high crime areas and unique situations. When our guys double up, it is for a tactic they enjoy. It is a real pain to try and pair everyone up by personality and productivity. When they are forced to double up, it is a constant whining and complaining session.

Posted: 7/21/2016 3:51:15 AM EDT

[#21]

I don't think it should be mandated to have 2 man units. As stated before some officers simply prefer to police by themselves. I count myself in that group. Now, as a supervisor, if we have the manpower and some guys prefer to ride together I will let them. If its two guys that are known to fuck off then the answer is no. Just depends on your area and the manpower you have. I think it should be a supervisory level decision.

Posted: 7/21/2016 10:20:41 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:

I'm not LEO but it seems a no-brainer to me. Two persons in a car means 2x the attention given to road, to suspects... Even as a security officer, I've been trained that the best way to conduct a suspicious interview is to have a backup!

I suspect your chief is toeing the line drawn by City Hall's budgets.

View Quote

Yup. Security here also. Everything is done in 2 man teams. Hospitals are a gathering point for problem children, drugs and general ass-hattery. Our assaults on staff have been going through the roof this year and the surrounding neighborhood is having a spike in property crime. Every contact we make is with 2 people. Many hands make light work and all that.

Cheif isnt doing you any favors.

Posted: 7/21/2016 4:25:23 PM EDT

[#23]

I like riding alone and I like doubling up. There's only a few guys I will double up with but when we do we get work done and stay active. Our policy is on certain runs we have to meet up before going in anyways, the 2 officer units make that easier and safer.

Posted: 7/21/2016 9:30:49 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Our chief is currently adamantly opposed to two man units in the current climate believing it makes two targets and will slow response time.

Line supervisors allow two man units if we have enough to get minimum cars on the street.

I love two man units. Our shift LT is asking for data, studies, research, on the benefits of two man units. If you guys have anything can you point me in the right direction to find some? I'm technotarded so my Google fu blows. My agency is high crime, high call load in an urban, poor, and downtrodden setting

View Quote

I am kind of surprised that your chief doesn't want two man units.

The department I worked at went with optional two man units to save on gas, when it was around $3 ot 4 a gallon a couple of years ago. Two is always safer.

Posted: 7/22/2016 11:17:06 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Our chief is currently adamantly opposed to two man units in the current climate believing it makes two targets and will slow response time.

Line supervisors allow two man units if we have enough to get minimum cars on the street.

I love two man units. Our shift LT is asking for data, studies, research, on the benefits of two man units. If you guys have anything can you point me in the right direction to find some? I'm technotarded so my Google fu blows. My agency is high crime, high call load in an urban, poor, and downtrodden setting

View Quote

Your chief is a moron.