Please refer this organization to your firearms instructors. It is a new organization,dedicated to enhancing the knowledge and skills of Professional Firearms Instructors.

NLEFIA

I'm a IALEFI member. What can the new bunch offer that is better?

This.

I can see that they seem to offer a wider range of classes than IALEFI, but at a significantly higher cost. I'm not inclined to fork out nearly $500.00 to attend classes under an organization that has yet to establish itself in the LE community.

I have to agree.  Between ILEETA and IALEFI, why would I pay $50 for a digital magazine that is not established, still looking for writers, and offers zero other benefits? Not to mention it' against every federal policy to copy federal LE credentials.  No recognized industry training courses, no materials, no discounted prices on material, etc...   Asking an awful lot for a new organization out the gate with $50 opt in and no other real benefits when there already is a very similar one with many more benefits.  

Also suspicious of an "association" whose "Boards of Advisors" are appointed and not elected, some of whom work with/for the "Executive Director" in their private company, which is selling firearms trainings.   Organization like this don't have "Boards of Advisors," they have officers, who are placed by elections and a wide variety of instructors from all over.  Not here- most here work together in one area, some even in the same agency, and a few outsiders.  All seem to work for their own or another advisors private training company.  Additionally organizations like this usually do not register as "FOR PROFIT" corporations when they file their articles on incorporation like this place did.  And not a single "advisor" or the Director have a single reference or link to this organization on their personal business (firearms training) web pages.    
 
Biggest pet peeve is when a cop tries to make money off other cops without being honest!  I am all for cops helping cops and teaching classes and running side businesses.  But disguising one as a new upcoming organization to feed business into their firearms training side business that employs other "Advisors" in the same organization, just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  Seems the future "training" will be funneled to the Directors business or those of the Advisory Board.        

If I'm not mistaken the excutive director is/was an IALEFI guy. Makes me wonder what there trying to fix or what their motovation is.

Money is always a good motivation. (not that there's anything wrong with that...)

I would think if they wanted to fix something, they would state so.

IALEFI is a good organization.  I'm a member.  I don't see what this one has to offer that IALEFI doesn't have.


This statement makes me suspicious:

"The ATC is the big event...a wide variety of training topics being offered at one event...which draws a large number of attendees from across the nation...and results in great training and networking opportunities.  

The 1st ATC is tentatively scheduled for March 2016.  And, we are accepting hosting inquiries."


How would you know that the NLEFIA ATC will draw a large number of attendees when you've never had one before?

Might end of being a good organization but I'll wait and see where it goes before deciding to join.

The organization is new...but I'm not new to the game, neither is most of the BOA or the staff instructors.

The average cost for quality firearms instruction across the nation is $100 - $225 per day.  Our cost of $150 per day is reasonable.  What this increased cost means is we can have smaller classes and still have all the expenses covered and instructors descently paid.  IALEFI tries to have 20 people in a class to be in the black for expenses, and their instructors are not paid very well.  We can cap our classes at 15 and run most classes with 10-12 students minimum depending on travel for the instructors.  Smaller classes equals better training.

We're not asking or telling anyone to leave IALEFI...we're just providing another option.  

ILEETA is a great organization, but they don't solely focus on firearms training.  They cover all areas of training in LE.  We actually have an alliance with ILEETA because we're not competeing with them.

-Jason Wuestenberg

More to add...

We don't have a Board of Directors, just as ILEETA doesn't have a Board of Directors.  We actually structured our association the same as ILEETA. We have a Board of Advisors comprised of experts in their fields that can provide advise and direction to the association.  Board of Advisors are non-paid / volunteers hand-picked by the ED.  So, naturally they will be people whos reputation and expertise are known to the ED.  That's how it was done in ILEETA.

The problem with having a Board of Directors is it requires a majority vote by the BOD to make any changes to the association...very difficult to do.  I know, because I was a member of IALEFI for 15 years and served on the IALEFI BOD for nearly 3 years.  I resigned early to start this association.  And, many other people have resigned from (or did not re-run for) IALEFI BOD before me due to similar frustrations.

Making money off cops...let me address that comment.  Much of the membership dues for IALEFI, and other non-profit organizations, pays for the salary for the Executive Director and other employees.  No one puts in 40 hours a week and works for free.  Many police officers out there have their own private training company because they want to pass on their knowledge and experience.  Should they provide their training for free and work for free when those guys burn their personal vacation time to travel and train others?  I think not...

As for me, I have a full time job as a police sergeant.  I don't need a paycheck from NLEFIA.  Any bit of money I could make is being rolled back into the association to help it grow...that's my dedication to the association.

If anyone wants to ask me any questions, feel free to email me at [email protected]

Respectfully,

-Jason Wuestenberg

Reply to the ATC description on the website...

That was placed on there to start the page. And, although it may not be worded as well as it could be, that will be the intent and expectation of our ATC.  However, we won't consider an ATC until our membership base is adequate (700-1000 members).  We have been live for 3 months now and we already have 200 members.  We are averaging 1-3 membership registrations a day.

The reality is the ATC will not be the major benefit of this association for most members.  Less than 15%  of IALEFI members attended their ATC for each of the last 4 years.  Less than 25% of ILEETA members attended their ATC the last few years.

Our networking and information sharing methods (searchable members directory, monthly newsletter, quarterly magazine, members forum, webinars), along with our mobile training, is where the most benefit will occur for members.  There are other ideas in the works as well.  We are a work in progess...

-Jason Wuestenberg

You also  and You better take a real good look at ILEETA"s and other organizations Board of Advisers.  Are they all form one small circle?  One area?  Maybe a 250 mile radius?  Um...nope!  They are well know experts in their field from around the country.  You don't have that, its a few buddies and maybe a few places you took classes at.  Vogle and Grossman, they only two recognizable names, have zero reference to the organization on their personal pages, which I find odd as he is heavily involved and references IALEFI.    


Democracy is such PITA, isn't it?  However associations and organizations are designed as such to benefit and serve the group, not make life easier for executive staff.  Take a good read of Roberts Rules of Orders.  For profit businesses however, are designed as an autocrastic hierarchy.  Goes back to my original point and what is summarized below.    


First, you don't offer 1/10 of what they do at this point, so charging the same price others charge is ridiculous.  That aside, I am not against cops have side businesses and selling to other cops.  I am just saying STOP trying to put a pig in a dress and call it a lady, when its a pig in a dress.  This "association" is nothing more than a vehicle to push a private training company to a larger audience, since more would likely appeal to a class under this associations rather name than your personal business name.  It also allows you to indirectly advertise two places that put money in your wallet, without paying advertising fees here or many other places that don't charge for LE training resources.  

Its using smoke and mirrors.  And I get pissed when a cop pulls out smoke and mirrors on other cops.  Much more respect and no issue if it was stated to be what it is:  a for profit LLC being used as a vehicle to to promote training classes held by a private company owned by a cop.

VERDAD is proud to host the first conference for this new organization at our range facility in Cortland County, NY-as it has hosted an annual IALEFI conference for the last 5+ years at our facility. We continue to support and host  IALEFI, and NRA Law Enforcement Training Events targeted at bringing training to the Firearms Instructors that then bring that knowledge back to the officers on the street.

That's what these organizations, and this new organization is about. It is another vehicle for increasing training our officers on the street a bad thing? Note the names and experience of the board of advisers, and if you become a member you will see the membership information that has grown in just a few short months. Very well known experienced law enforcement firearms instructors across the country have seen the benefit of another avenue to deliver training throughout the country.  

Our facility is donated for these events, we make no profit, in fact donate quite a bit in service, time, and range use. We are intimately knowledgeable about the costs associated in bringing these types programs to the regions around the country so local officers and instructors have access to this level of training.  The fees paid by attendees cover the costs of flights, for top notch instructors, hotel accommodations, and in the case of IALEFI and NLEFIA modest instructor payment. (Instructors offer their time while taking time from jobs/families and/or their private businesses to give back to the law enforcement community the experience and knowledge they have to share).   Advertising, websites, publications, modest "gifts" for participants  and support staff are also paid for, not donated.  VERDAD Instructors travel to train others and get training at IALEFI RTC's, MIDT Events, ATC's, MLEFIAA events, and will likely offer the same to NLEFIA on request. We are proud to be a charter member, and proud to host the first event for NLEFIA.

With every new participant or membership to any of these training opportunities, information is shared, different perspective, different experience shared, and ideas for keeping our men and women safer as they protect our communities.  The other plus of any of these events is the networking and sharing of lesson plans, tools, and tactics. The more training the better! Everyone can still learn something.   We welcome anyone who has questions about any of the organizations mentioned here or NLEFIA specifically to give our office a call to discuss.

First I want to say that I am a member of IALEFI and NLEFIA.

I believe there is nothing wrong with having another training group. Is there a problem with having too many training options? or getting too much training? I dont believe that anyone can say those things.

Someone told me many moons ago, go to a class and get some tools for your toolbox. Take those learned skills and and see if they work for you. If not toss them. The phrase, 'this is a way to do it, not the way,' comes to mind. I am paraphrasing but you get the point.

Also, nothing wrong with competition in the LE training community. This will only bring out the best of both organizations.  

As for the comment above about smoke and mirrors. I have no knowledge if this is a vessel for someone to promote their private company. But I will say this. I really dont care if it is or not. My concerns are that the offficers taking the course get something out of it. And I feel that they will come away from a NLEFIA course learning something. The people that I know involved with NLEFIA are stand up people.

I have found that a majority of officers who take or taken IALEFIA or future NLEFIA courses are guys who reach into there own pockets to go to these things.Myself included. My dept has not paid one cent for any training that I have taken. The guys who are going to take these courses are the ones who want to better themselves and provide exceptional training back at there dept. I try to absorb as much as possible at these training events. Why? because some small tid bit of info that I pass on to my guys maybe that small thing that gets them home at the end of the night.

What is the most important job as a LE firearms instructor?  survival in a gunfight? hell no. survival is just a struggle to remain living. I want my guys to prevail in a gunfight. Prevail is to be more powerful then that opposing force. in another term, victorious. How do we do this as LE instructors? Seek out any and all training that is available to you, train harder then the next guy, test that new equipment, practice those skills. These are things that will make us better LE instructors.  

So I say welcome to the fold, NLEFIA.      

I understand what you're saying, but I think that what you're not taking into account is that $150 a day for firearms training is reasonable from a known instructor. Your prices aren't terrible, but they're not great either. Consider this though: your instructor certification courses are more expensive than the NRA-LE courses (cost per day of training). Which do you think an agency is more likely to foot the bill to send someone to?

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying that you suck or your organization sucks. What I am saying is that to me, your organization comes across as a more expensive version of IALEFI. I will say as a positive, you offer a wider array of training than IALEFI does, which has been my ongoing gripe with them.

The Cortland County, NY Conference at VERDAD's Tactical Training Facility is going to happen! If you want in-register now!  See http://nlefia.org/