Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Log In

A valid email is required.
Password is required.
Site Notices
3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 7/10/2001 5:39:37 PM EDT
question here that i hope someone can answer. in our armory we have a m16 that is serial number 324. it is as far as i can tell completely orginal. the side markings say armalite ar15. the grip, stock, and handguards are green. it has a 1:14 twist barrel, very small flash suppressor and a light weight buffer. the finish is a light grey. basically everything i have ever read about the original characteristics are there. does anyone know when this rifle might have been manufactured and is it indeed the oldest. btw we still shoot it once a year, jams on auto every time, bullets tumble after about 50 meters
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 7:11:39 PM EDT
Sounds like what you have is NOT an M16 (technically). It's an Armalite AR15, and apparently a very early one. I'd be worried about scratching it up!!! Armalite never made an M16 - that nomenclature came after military acceptance and was first made by Colt. Your AR15 may be worth some bux!
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:13:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2001 8:10:34 AM EDT by steve m]
do share - take some pics!! i love stuff like this steve
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:20:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:15:38 PM EDT
well it actually an airforce weapon not ARNG i am trying to get some digital cam pics of it to post. believe it or not it is still technically a service rifle in the deployment rack. if anyone might know the appx value of it this might go a long way into swaying the AF to let it go to display
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:13:39 PM EDT
chucks right - that belongs in a museum for all to enjoy. steve
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 12:04:48 AM EDT
Recently seen some early ARs marked AR15 .223, and without the fenced mag release, all in the 018XXX ser range, also many XM16E1s, some with property marks, and some without, all with unfenced mag releases, in the 200XXX ser range or so. But found an XM with a fenced mag release, the first one I have ever seen. One had the 3 pronged flash supp too. That was 1 out of 1100! Wierd. Any input here? With and without chrome carriers and bolts, or mixed. A real hodge-podge of stuff. FYI these weapons are still in service here in Australia, oddly enough some with A2 stocks and HGs, All 1/12, some with 1/12 bbls with A2 front sights, others are steel barrels. Some even have the case defelector URs too. So althought the receivers are original, over the yrs, all have had a few re-fits or FTRs as they call em here.
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 6:46:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By axsoml: question here that i hope someone can answer. in our armory we have a m16 that is serial number 324. it is as far as i can tell completely orginal. the side markings say armalite ar15. the grip, stock, and handguards are green. it has a 1:14 twist barrel, very small flash suppressor and a light weight buffer. the finish is a light grey. basically everything i have ever read about the original characteristics are there. does anyone know when this rifle might have been manufactured and is it indeed the oldest. btw we still shoot it once a year, jams on auto every time, bullets tumble after about 50 meters
View Quote
I'd give my left nut to see one of those. Get some pics posted ! ! Please.
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 1:20:23 PM EDT
What axomal is talking about is an Armalite AR15 model 01. This is the first model of "M16" sold to the US military(correct that tecnically it was called AR15 till oficially adopted). I have no trouble believing these are still in armories but then again garands and M14s are still in US armories. The model 01 was privately obtained by some SEAL units and some Rangers for testing in Vietnam in I believe 1960 at a time when the US military had no intrest in Stoner's little gun. They do come up for sale now and then in the class 3 community and in new condition go for $10-12K. These have the 1/14 twist (believed to cause bullet instability upon impact) and NO chrome plating in the chamber or barrel. The green furniture is actually brown fiberite PAINTED. Other neat features to look for: The flash hider you describe is a type 1 "duckbill", the charging handle should be triangular instead of T shaped. The carrier and bolt should be chrome. The firing pin should be "heavy" the FP retainer should be machined(not the cotter pin style) The markings on the upper (for the rear sight) should be engraved INTO the reciever, not embossed like the later ones. The buffer tube will be staked on with a roll pin and the selector and safty should have shallow holes drilled into them. If it has the original sling it will only adjust from one end. Treasure this baby, although it will still hold its own in combat it is a real piece of history.
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 2:34:53 PM EDT
for the love of god please post pictures. Jk
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 7:35:40 PM EDT
Did you ever consider trying to sneak that out one peice at a time. Kinda like that Johnny Cash song. Six
Link Posted: 7/27/2001 7:35:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2001 7:47:11 AM EDT by CrimsonGhost]
Just caught this thread and was really interested. We have 7 of those at our Air Guard vault that are mobility weapons (not ever fired). I'm trying to work a deal with Colt to exchange them for new M4's for the unit. These are Armalite/Colt Model 01's. Here are the pictures of one I took below. [url]http://communities.msn.com/ForSaleontheWeb/airforcear15model01.msnw[/url] 3 of ours are absolutely unfired and the pictures here are of one of those. They will remain that way until I can get them back into Colt's hands for their museum.
Link Posted: 7/27/2001 8:06:09 AM EDT
On a "Tales of the Gun" show on the M16, the moderator had what he called "the first ..." I forgot if he called it an AR15 or an M16. It was in the Smithsonism museum and he handled it with white gloves. The first AF contract guns actually had blue painted furniture, per Curt LeMay's direction. I saw one of those in an AF rack about '68. Norm
Link Posted: 7/27/2001 3:14:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bohica: Just caught this thread and was really interested. We have 7 of those at our Air Guard vault that are mobility weapons (not ever fired). I'm trying to work a deal with Colt to exchange them for new M4's for the unit. These are Armalite/Colt Model 01's. Here are the pictures of one I took below. [url]http://communities.msn.com/ForSaleontheWeb/airforcear15model01.msnw[/url] 3 of ours are absolutely unfired and the pictures here are of one of those. They will remain that way until I can get them back into Colt's hands for their museum.
View Quote
Very cool.
Link Posted: 7/29/2001 5:40:47 PM EDT
Norm, they are painted GREEN (over brown fiberite) The guy on the Hist. Channel is Dr. Atwater who is the curator of the Army Ordnance Museum at Aberdeen.(not many ARs or M16s on display when I was there last month) He is holding a prototype AR15 from the late 50's. Bohica, is there any way to enlarge these pics larger than the thumbnail. Each time I click on a pic I get a large white box with no pics. This rifle is the real thing.
Link Posted: 7/30/2001 3:19:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/30/2001 3:50:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bohica: 3 of ours are absolutely unfired
View Quote
They must have been function checked at the factory. How can you substantiate the unfired claim; please no more hyperbole?.
Link Posted: 7/30/2001 4:25:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By QCMGR:
Originally Posted By Bohica: 3 of ours are absolutely unfired
View Quote
They must have been function checked at the factory. How can you substantiate the unfired claim; please no more hyperbole?.
View Quote
From the time they were initially issued to the Air Force from Colt/Armalite in whatever procurement process that was used til now, they've been in mobility status. Our weapons have never been mobilized with our unit. In other words, the only reason they are around still is that they are our "go to war" weapons.
Link Posted: 7/30/2001 4:27:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kurt VF: Norm, they are painted GREEN (over brown fiberite) The guy on the Hist. Channel is Dr. Atwater who is the curator of the Army Ordnance Museum at Aberdeen.(not many ARs or M16s on display when I was there last month) He is holding a prototype AR15 from the late 50's. Bohica, is there any way to enlarge these pics larger than the thumbnail. Each time I click on a pic I get a large white box with no pics. This rifle is the real thing.
View Quote
I'm not sure what method you're using to view them but all I do is click on them for the full sized images. There is also a page two in case you missed that.
Link Posted: 7/31/2001 1:23:22 PM EDT
Gotta love the "Patent Pending" on that AR-15!!
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:49:00 AM EDT
I've got a question... "How does the pivot pin disconnect the uppper from the lower?" Does it come out completely, or is there a detent and spring somewhere?
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 4:13:25 PM EDT
Luke, the pin comes out completely. There is no detent as there is no raised fence. I have the training circular for this rifle. In the text they state "Do not remove the pin from the lower reciever" then they show a pic of guess what??-yep, the recievers seperated and the pin out of the lower. I still can't view the enlarged versions. Anyway to access this link directly????
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 10:23:55 AM EDT
I agree, great picture of the Colt above Armalite on the lower. Now I can post that everytime someone asks "who made the AR15" question. I am sure that the Armalite moderator will love that too.
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 7:39:42 PM EDT
Just remember the Armalite of today has nothing to do with THE Armalite company that developed the AR15/M16. The only thing they have in common is the name.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 11:57:11 PM EDT
CrimsonGhost, do you mind if I put those pictures up on my own webpage? I'd love to do a side by side picture comparison of the old AR15 as compared to the modern AR15. [url]http://home.bak.rr.com/varmintcong/main.html[/url]
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 10:19:58 AM EDT
great pictures, thanks...
Link Posted: 8/14/2001 3:24:24 PM EDT
Pretty good pics. Most of the original green furniture Model 01's I've seen were pretty beat up. Nearly all the M16 in my Air-guard unit have been converted to A2's including all the 01's and later model 02's, an interesting thing is that all the A2 conversion uppers have the counter bore on the front pivot pin hole so the model 01-02 fromt pin will work, this had to cost the AF some extra $$$$$$$ . actually got to fire some 4 digit serial #'s out of the batch of 600 conversions I got to work with.
Link Posted: 8/14/2001 6:02:50 PM EDT
tangeant, are you saying the front pivot on the A2 upper has to be drilled out to a larger size?? What size is the early pivot pin??
Link Posted: 8/14/2001 7:38:10 PM EDT
Kurt. The detent for the Model 01 M16 is in the pivot pin itself . The 01 upper front pivot hole is conter bored approx .325 x .085 deep on the left side for the detent in the pin. Even the later M16's with the regular front pivot pins had this feature.I can't post a pic but maybe someone else can. The going rumor was that the AF was just going to get rid of the 01's since there are only about 10,000 them but they went ahead and made every A2 upper in the rebuild kits with the same modification to allow there use on the 01's pivot pin, go figure ! Thinking about it I can,t recall for sure if the 02 used the same pin or not but that would add about another 30,000 rifles.
Top Top