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Posted: 11/1/2001 8:01:33 AM EDT
I remember some time ago seeing a golf ball launcher for use on preban rifles. Would the cup be considered a flash supressor? I was basically looking to build a slip on with a set screw. I figured I could load up some ping pong balls filled with flour and have a mini m203 to play with. It'd be alot cheaper than 37mm rounds. Any input on the legalities of doing this?
Link Posted: 11/1/2001 9:34:17 AM EDT
I believe the point of not being able to use a flash hider on a post ban is having the ability of using your AR as a grenade launcher. So theoretically you can start with ping pong balls and end up with grenades, so I'd say it was a no go.
Link Posted: 11/1/2001 10:08:01 AM EDT
well the company that makes the golf ball launcher does make a post ban version
Link Posted: 11/1/2001 10:16:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cyrax777: well the company that makes the golf ball launcher does make a post ban version
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What company is that? I would love to check that out.
Link Posted: 11/1/2001 6:04:23 PM EDT
I don't know if it would be considered a flash hider by BATF or not; Ive never seen one fired, but if it reduces the flash signature, they may very well deternine it is a flash hider. Of course thet greater issue is whether it constitutes an unregistered destructive device. I'm no golfer, but I'm pretty sure a golf ball is greater than a half inch in diameter. The issue does seem run afoul of BATF's recent opinion on solid projectiles and "anti-personnel" rounds from smoothbore 37mm launchers.
Link Posted: 11/1/2001 6:41:33 PM EDT
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Link Posted: 11/2/2001 7:00:07 AM EDT
Those look like a lot of fun. I don't believe the BATF cares, as long as you don't use them to launch a bomb. The attachments (both versions) were being sold buy a very knowledgable gentleman at the last Crossroads of the West show. I had a nice talk with him and was very impressed how much he was in touch with current gun laws and issues. I heard that a couple of guys were shooting golf balls at a range a couple of weekends ago at the San Diego Rifle and Revolver Association picnic before I showed up. Reports said the muzzle blast was minimal, a lot less noise than a live round, and that the balls went a very long way.
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 7:13:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By California_Kid: Those look like a lot of fun. I don't believe the BATF cares, as long as you don't use them to launch a bomb.
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Actually, I think its probably because BATF hasn't found out about them yet or had a chance for the Tech Branch to evaluate one. Seriously, someone please show me why BATF would not find this to be a Destructive Device, in light of their prior rulings and agency opinions. Remember, it took years (actually decades, I think) for BATF to find out and issue an opinion on those wallet holsters.
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 7:26:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shaggy:
Originally Posted By California_Kid: Those look like a lot of fun. I don't believe the BATF cares, as long as you don't use them to launch a bomb.
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Actually, I think its probably because BATF hasn't found out about them yet or had a chance for the Tech Branch to evaluate one. Seriously, someone please show me why BATF would not find this to be a Destructive Device, in light of their prior rulings and agency opinions....
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If someone ever DID use one to launch a bomb (and got caught) the manufacturer and everyone who owns one would surely be in a world of sh1t. Unlike a 40 mm launcher, a golf ball launcher doesn't fire fixed ammunition. I don't believe they'd find it to be any more of a DD than: - The grenade launcher ring on a French MAS 49/56 rifle, - The flash suppressor/brake on a USGI M16 barrel or pre-ban AR-15, - A grenade launcher attachment for a Mauser rifle, - A potato gun. With people selling them openly at gun shows in California, surely the BATF (not to mention the California DoJ) surely must be aware of them.
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 7:43:24 AM EDT
better get one now, before they ban them!
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 7:44:11 AM EDT
The ability to shoot fixed ammo is not determinative of a DD. Destructive Devices are defined in Title 26 of the US Code(Internal Revenue Code). Under 26 USC 5845(f)(2) in addition to bombs and explosives, a DD also includes "any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes" Nowhere does it require the ammunition to be "fixed". The golfball is the projectile, the blank is the "explosive or other propellant". Now I'm not saying its likely you'd get caught or prosecuted, but it is possible. Under such a reading of the text of the statute, you would be in possession of a DD, and would get the same penalty as if you were caught with a live hand grenade. Of course, you could file a form 1, register it, then purchase one, engrave it with a serial number, etc...
Link Posted: 11/2/2001 7:57:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2001 7:52:40 AM EDT by California_Kid]
Originally Posted By shaggy: The ability to shoot fixed ammo is not determinative of a DD. Destructive Devices are defined in Title 26 of the US Code(Internal Revenue Code). Under 26 USC 5845(f)(2) in addition to bombs and explosives, a DD also includes "any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes" ...
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Right you are, thanks. I confabulated the federal definition of DD with the CALIFORNIA one, to wit (from the OCR Penal Code): 12301. (a) The term "destructive device," as used in this chapter, shall include any of the following weapons: (1) Any projectile containing any explosive or incendiary material or any other chemical substance, including, but not limited to, that which is commonly known as tracer or incendiary ammunition, except tracer ammunition manufactured for use in shotguns. (2) Any bomb, grenade, explosive missile, or similar device or any launching device therefor. (3) Any weapon of a caliber greater than 0.60 caliber [b] which fires fixed ammunition,[/b] [emphasis added] or any ammunition therefor, other than a shotgun (smooth or rifled bore) conforming to the definition of a "destructive device" found in subsection (b) of Section 179.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, shotgun ammunition (single projectile or shot), antique rifle, or an antique cannon.... ------------ end quote ------------- If the feds ever took a strict interpretation, potato guns and a lot of other things would fall under that definition. "Other propellant" could include compressed air, spring power, etc.
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