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Posted: 7/21/2001 10:32:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/21/2001 11:01:39 PM EDT
Nope, no law broken. USPS is fine as long as at least the recipient is an FFL; and if its interstate the recipient has to be an FFL no matter who does the shipping. Ever since UPS started requiring handguns to go overnight, I've been mostly using the USPS.
Link Posted: 7/21/2001 11:29:16 PM EDT
You can't not mail handguns through the United states postal service.you must send them via a private carrier ie.ups,fedex You can send a gun to any resident of your own state,whether or not if they are a FFL.but state laws may apply to the last statement.mmk
Link Posted: 7/21/2001 11:48:50 PM EDT
mmk - Do you have a cite or reference for your info? I've read 39 USC 3001 in full and there is no reference to firearms.
Link Posted: 7/22/2001 3:46:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2001 4:17:10 AM EDT by EOD_Guy]
Rifles and shotguns can be mailed by nonlicensees to a licensee. Handguns can only be mailed between licensed dealers and licensed manufacturers in "customary trade shipments and for repair or replacement of parts". C&R holders cannot send or receive handguns through the mail. (Ref USPS Domestic Mail Manual, Sections CO24.1.2 through CO24.1.5) I'm not sure exactly where the USPS Domestic Mail Manual is codified. Rich
Link Posted: 7/22/2001 4:23:05 AM EDT
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service? A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another State.
Link Posted: 7/22/2001 5:27:58 AM EDT
Oslow, you are quoting the FAQ section of the Green Book. The answers there are general in nature and do not usually cover details like dealer/ manufacturer mailing. In some cases, the answers are flat out wrong. I have a couple of letters from BATF HQ admitting to this fact. Rich
Link Posted: 7/22/2001 5:47:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2001 5:44:50 AM EDT by shaggy]
Originally Posted By EOD Guy: Rifles and shotguns can be mailed by nonlicensees to a licensee. Handguns can only be mailed between licensed dealers and licensed manufacturers in "customary trade shipments and for repair or replacement of parts". C&R holders cannot send or receive handguns through the mail. (Ref USPS Domestic Mail Manual, Sections CO24.1.2 through CO24.1.5) I'm not sure exactly where the USPS Domestic Mail Manual is codified. Rich
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Rich - I'll try and find out if the DMM is available online somewhere (no guarantees though), but it sounds like even the DMM has it wrong. If a gun is a C&R, even a handgun, it seems to me the C&R holder qualifies as a licensee engaging in customary trade
Link Posted: 7/22/2001 6:25:43 AM EDT
Well, here's part of the answer... I originally referenced 39 USC 3001 (Title 39 contains all postal statutes, sec. 3001 concerns specific nonmailable Matter) but Title 18 deals with crimes and contains a seperate crime, not found in the postal statutes, for mailing of concealable firerarms(pistols). 18 USC 1715 Sec. 1715. Firearms as nonmailable; regulations Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable and shall not be deposited in or carried by the mails or delivered by any officer or employee of the Postal Service.... (irrelevant exceptions for gov't use ommitted for brevity)... Such articles also may be conveyed in the mails to manufacturers of firearms or bona fide dealers therein in customary trade shipments, including such articles for repairs or replacement of parts, from one to the other, under such regulations as the Postal Service shall prescribe.... Now note that sec. 1715 does however, create an exception for shipments of concealable firearms between licensed dealers and empowers the USPO to enact regulations to carry out that exception. I cannot find the CFR cites this morning, but the DMM has probably been codified in the CFR, so Rich's cite to the DMM is probably the last official word from the USPO on the subject. Now get this...(since I obviously have a little too much time on my hands...) Under 18 USC 1716(f) it is illegal to mail a beer. It is, however, legal under 18 USC 1716(c) to mail live scorpions. Now what would you think would pose a greater danger in the mails; a beer or a box full of scorpions?
Link Posted: 7/22/2001 6:28:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2001 6:28:02 AM EDT by EOD_Guy]
shaggy, The DMM is on line at the USPS web site. It specifically says licensed dealers and licensed manufacturers. I've worked with the Code of Federal Regulations for many years and I found out a long time ago that logic and common sense are not often found therein. Also, I found the law covering mailing of handguns. It is 18USC, Chap 83, Section 1715. (It's on page 34 of the BATF "Green Book". The DMM reflects the law almost word-for-word. Only dealers and manufacturers are mentioned. Violation carries up to a two year prison sentence. Rich P.S. Shaggy, you must have posted your last while I was composing my reply.
Link Posted: 7/22/2001 8:45:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2001 8:47:03 AM EDT by rkbar15]
[url]http://www.glockworks.com/services.html[/url] Handgun Shipments to a manufacturer or gunsmith for repair or customization. Law Enforcement / Military / Government / Armed Security: Are permitted to ship handguns via USPS (US Mail), FedEx, UPS (see Gen. Pub.). A photocopy of your agency I.D. and/or authorization letter on agency letterhead may be required to comply with the USPS affidavit requirements. (see DMM C024.1.3 & C024.1.4) Manufacturers / Distributors / Dealers: Are permitted to ship handguns via USPS (US Mail), FedEx, UPS (see Gen. Pub.). A form #1508 is required to be on file with your local Postmaster to comply with USPS regulations. (see DMM C024.1.5 & C024.1.6) General Public: The general public is permitted to ship handguns via FedEx, UPS. If you would like to ship your pistol at the cheaper UPS Ground rate (approx.$12.00), you still can by shipping your pistol in two separate packages. Simply remove your upper slide assembly from your lower receiver and package them in separate boxes and ship them separately. This changes its definition from Handgun to Firearm so you don’t have to pay the higher UPS handgun rate. (see 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 Sec.921.3, Sec.921.29A & Sec.921.29B) Rifle, Shotgun & Firearm Shipments Please Note: You can change your Handguns definition to a Firearm by simply remove your upper slide assembly from your lower receiver and package them in separate boxes and ship them separately. (see 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 Sec.921.3, Sec.921.29A & Sec.921.29B) Law Enforcement / Military / Government / Armed Security: Are permitted to ship rifles, shotguns & firearms via USPS (US Mail), FedEx & UPS. Manufacturers / Distributors / Dealers: Are permitted to ship rifles, shotguns & firearms via USPS (US Mail), FedEx & UPS. General Public: The general public is permitted to ship rifles, shotguns & firearms via USPS (US Mail), FedEx & UPS
Link Posted: 7/22/2001 7:25:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/22/2001 7:58:40 PM EDT
DK-Prof - Thats the $64k question. Basicly, its a grey area that will remain grey until it gets decided in court or formally codified in the CFR, either by the USPO or the BATF. Its excellent you didn't get caught, but I wouldn't tempt fate again. You may be right (that the C&R FFL makes you a licensee/dealer for purposes of the postal regs), but until you get at least a letter from the USPO indicating their opinion on the matter, I wouldn't do it again. My guess, however, is that you're not a dealer for purposes of the postal regs exception for pistols.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 4:50:27 AM EDT
DK-Prof, I'll have to agree with shaggy that a C&R license holder is not a dealer in the eyes of the USPS. They define a dealer as "a bona fide dealer of firearms duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms". As shaggy says, I wouldn't do it until I had a letter of clarification from the USPS Hq. I've said it many times in my work that logic and common sense do not work when dealing with government regulations. Rich
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 7:19:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 11:22:28 AM EDT
I also was surprised to receive my CZ-52 through the USPS. I too thought it was a "no, no", but I sure didn't bring it to their attention. I had to go down to the USPS and sign for my package, at least. They didn't ask me what it was, and I didn't offer. BTW, the Pawn dealer's license is the same as any other dealers'. guns762
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 11:33:27 AM EDT
DK-Prof Sorry about that; didn't mean to imply anything. After I posted it, I realized you weren't the one that shipped it, and I meant to edit my response, but got sidetracked.
Link Posted: 7/23/2001 4:23:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By guns762: BTW, the Pawn dealer's license is the same as any other dealers'. guns762
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The Pawnbroker's license is a type 02, but costs the same, and carries the same priveleges and responsibilities as the dealer's type 01 FFL.
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