Can I leave a firearm (pistol) at a friend/family members house to use when I travel? can they use it when Im not around? Can I use one of theirs when I visit instead of bringing my own?

I have family all over the country and travel several times a year. I am getting to the point where I want to fly rather than drive. It would be easier to leave 2 or 3 guns around the country than have to fly with them every other month, but I would like them to have access to the firearms just in case.

Unless there is a specific state law prohibition where you're leaving a gun, it shouldn't be a problem and the friend or family member can use it with your consent. Don't leave one with a prohibited person.

This. OP, provide the states in which you intend to leave firearms for further assistance. VA, for instance, currently has no prohibitions against loaning/leaving firearms elsewhere. NY would be a big hell no, though.

Leaving it in a different state might not be the best idea.

If you left it sealed in a box and not accessible you might be in a better position.

It cannot look like a transfer to a resident of another state.

While you CAN 'borrow' a gun in another state for hunting a handgun or carry weapon might garner more attention.

The feds tend to take a dim view of private (non FFL) transfers across state lines.

I've been wondering about the same question.  My friend was telling me he gave his brother a rifle who lives in an another state.  I didn't say anything but I was wondering if that was legal.

I hope to be moving out of state so I would leave a firearm in VA, SC, and FL.

Im mostly worried about federal law of transferring a firearm to a person without an FFL.

I figure it would be "safest" if I kept the firearm in locked box with a label saying "property of (me) contact at XXX-XXX-XXXX" (I could go as far as leaving the box in a duffel with some clothes in it.) and I already keep fishing gear in several states so I dont have to worry about traveling with rods and sharps... so it wouldnt just be leaving a handgun.

I cant find the definition of possession but from ATFs page "(25) "Transfer" means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including. but not limited to, gifts and loans." So, it sounds like a loan is unsat...

I figure there is a 99.999% chance that no one will ever know if I left it in a box in someones closet, but in the event something happens I want to have my ducks in a row. The convince of not having to fly isnt worth risking my rights, hobby, and career.

Taking it one step further, If I go shooting with friends from out of state, in my home state, and they shoot my guns as long as I am there, is it sat? What happens if I let someone shoot one of my pistols at a range and they happen to be an out of state resident or felon? (Often times I will let people shoot a .22 pistol if I see that they are a new shooter, having issues with a center fire handgun.)

What would happen if we both "owned" the handgun?  If I set up an NFA trust and had my mom and sister on it and added a few non NFA handguns to the trust, how would that work?

Edit: to the above poster, I know my sister moved around A LOT during college, she lived in 3 or 4 different states during that time, for graduation I gave her a LCR. I made sure her current ID was in the same state as mine and got a bill of sale with the date and ID number. Just in case something happened down the line I wanted proof that we transferred on a date when we both lived in the same state. I purchased the firearm prior to her moving back in state and we obviously have contact after she left.

Leaving a gun with another person who is legal to possess guns even in another state is legal providing OWNERSHIP does not change. Merely leaving it with a friend/relative does not automatically mean "giving" (ownership change).

Fed law prohibits someone loaning a gun across state lines for OTHER than "sporting purposes" so CCW would be illegal for the other person to do with it, but taking it to the range would be fine.

Some states restrict even possession to only guns registered to the person (NY is one in particular) where the above would be illegal for handguns.

Horseshit. Your advice would cause someone to commit a felony.
Federal law/ATF regulations do not mention "ownership" and clearly prohibit the interstate transfer of possession of a firearm between nonlicensees who reside in different states.


In fact, you can "own" a firearm, but not be legally able to "possess" a firearm. Example: You buy a gun from Bud's, it arrives at your local dealer, you get denied on the FBI NICS check. You maintain an ownership interest in the gun but cannot take lawful possession.

So the person who hunts with relatives in another state and leaves his hunting rifle there has committed a felony?

Somehow I doubt that very much and I know this is in fact done by many rather than dragging the hunting rifles back and forth each year (if they aren't used in the home state).

BATFE even states that one can loan a gun for sporting purposes across state lines.

18 USC 44 S> 922(b) (3) (B)
ref: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

So how do you explain your statement above vs. the above quote from the law?

I missed the part where it says you can loan across state lines. You realize too that section only applies to "licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector"? So what it is saying is a FFL can loan or rent to an out-of-state person - like at a range or hunting camp, etc.

No, no no no never lend a gun or your cell phone.  To family members maybe.  There is a lot that can wrong.

Whether the person was hunting is irrelevant.
Whether the party he leaves his firearm with is a relative or family member is irrelevant.
What IS relevant is he has transferred possession to someone who is not a resident of the same state.



Then provide a citation that shows an exemption to Federal law. Your "I doubt" needs backup.



So what?
Frequency of occurrence doesn't invalidate Federal law.
Putting the firearm in a safe where it is inaccessible to anyone else might pass scrutiny, then again it might not.






No, it doesn't.




I think you need to reread that cite.





Nothing I wrote disagrees with that quote from the law.

Try reading these FAQ's and the accompanying citations:ATF FAQ on Unlicensed Persons


ATF even gives explicit instructions on how to avoid an illegal transfer when shipping a firearm to yourself  in another state:Nonlicensee shipping a firearm for his own use.

Unopened= legal.
Opened= illegal.

DogtownTom,

One of your cites certainly seems to agree with what I had stated.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/whom-may-unlicensed-person-transfer-firearms-under-gca

Given that an "unlicensed person" in BATFE terms is someone NOT an FFL. Use of the word "person" above says to me that they mean non-FFLs.

How do you square that away with what you stated.

You see these situations as transfers of ownership, whereas my read of this is "loaning" or merely "storing" in a different location.

No, it doesn't.
Remember, your original claim was "Leaving a gun with another person who is legal to possess guns even in another state is legal providing OWNERSHIP does not change. Merely leaving it with a friend/relative does not automatically mean "giving" (ownership change)..."
Leaving your firearm with a nonlicensee in another state is an illegal transfer. Again, "ownership" has nothing to do with anything. It's a matter of POSSESSION, not ownership. No ATF regulation addresses "ownership" of a firearm.


Well, no shit. What is your point?




Again, wrong. You keep throwing out the term "ownership", when ATF regs and Federal law do not mention it. You need to research the difference between owning a firearm and possessing a firearm.

Further, you seem to believe that loaning or merely storing a firearm with a resident of another state is covered under the temporary loan exception.....it isn't. The temporary loan of a firearm means Cousin Bob can come to Texas and borrow my shotgun to hunt dove for a weekend. It does NOT allow him to leave the state with that firearm, as that would be a transfer of possession. Similarly, I can't go to Arkansas, let Cousin Bob hunt ducks with my gun and leave it with him when I return to Texas.........that's an interstate transfer of possession. (and illegal)

As I posted above, ATF gives specific restrictions on just shipping your firearm to yourself......that NO ONE OTHER THAN YOU can open the package. It clearly says they cannot "open the box or take possession".

I've thrown the question up to my BATFE contact in DC (manager) for clarification.

I was not addressing shipping questions. I do agree that only the owner can ship (to him/herself) and only the owner can open the box, but do not believe that is relevant to your argument. Of course UPS and FedEx won't ship guns unless it is either going to or from an FFL, so for most people shipping to themselves is no longer viable (although USPO hasn't changed their policy on long guns, last I looked early this year).

Yup. The only way I would consider it is if I had a DIRECT family member that I could trust to put it in a safe and not touch it unless I was present.

I did that during my divorce. This was storage of firearms though...not lending.  On lending...my two cents...that's a bad idea.

I did receive an automated response from my BATFE contact, he's out of the office until sometime next week. I will post when I hear back from him.

Clarification?
It's right there in the CFR!
This isn't a secret and has been Federal law since 1968.

Make sure your contact gives you a cite to the Federal law or ATF regulation that makes leaving or storing a firearm with a resident of another state...NOT a transfer of possession. A simple yes/no doesn't mean jack squat.

If you are correct this would be disastrous.

MA is NOT TX! The laws here are so bad that many people move here, leave their guns wherever they came from (usually family) until they take the MA mandated course, file their paperwork for a MA LTC (required to possess even a spent .22LR casing) and obtain it (usually 2-5 months after applying). Only then do they go back to retrieve their guns. To add to this, an Appellate Court decision pointed out that NOBODY (other than active LEOs) can move into MA with ANY large capacity guns or magazines (even the pre-bans made on/before 9/13/1994), so they face a possible state felony conviction for moving in with them.

So if you are correct, they face a felony either way . . . pick your poison, risk Federal or State.

You are thoroughly confused.

Leaving guns in your state of residence with others who are also residents of that state, is not a out-of-state transfer.

No kidding, and nothing I've written says anyrhng different. I'm discussing Federal law and ATF regulations because they apply no matter what state you reside in.




 
But that's not the scenario you described earlier.
If I know I'm moving to MA, I take my guns to a friends home and ask him to store them........that's not illegal. It's not an interstate transfer because we both reside in the same state. He can store them forever and shoot the living daylights outta them.

At a later date if I come back to Texas to pick them up....that IS a problem. They were in my friends possession and I have two choices under Federal law:
1. Have my friend ship them to a dealer in MA. The MA dealer will transfer them to me via a Form 4473.
2. Have rifles or shotguns transferred to me by a TX dealer via a Form 4473 (provided the firearms are legal to possess in MA) I can then transport or ship them to MA myself.

This has been Federal law since 1968.

Based on the below direct quote from my BATFE management contact in DC, I'd say that lending a gun isn't a good idea legally.

Lending a gun IS PERFECTLY FINE legally, and always has been. But that's not what you described. You described LEAVING the firearm in the possession of someone outside your state of residence.




 
Your "BATFE management contact" seems to agree with what I wrote in my second post above.
I wrote: "Putting the firearm in a safe where it is inaccessible to anyone else might pass scrutiny, then again it might not."