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Posted: 10/5/2015 10:42:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Yes, they may follow up. They won't come crashing in.
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Posted: 10/5/2015 11:22:38 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
I'm ordering a bunch (~40) of stripped AR-15 lowers in the wake of this last shooting. Paranoid perhaps, but I figured why not. My question is, is the ATF going to come crashing into my living room to check up on me or some similar? Do they ever follow up on large gun purchases? Thanks guys, In most cases they will not know till years later. They may or may not ask questions. |
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Posted: 10/5/2015 11:33:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Expect a visit. FFL has reporting requirements pertaining to multiple purchases.
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Posted: 10/5/2015 11:35:48 PM EDT
[#4]
You will be watched.
I have heard that even if you do, say 5 at a time but do 40 in a short amount of time, say 2 months. They will still look at you. I had this conversation with my FFL a few months ago. They came for an audit and said some crazy things like who is this person? Do they always buy this many guns at a time? (they were lowers) What kind of person are they? Said they flipped through all of his 4473's and his log books. He's not a big dealer and they were there for 3 days. ETA: Like RenX said, it may not be for a few years, but they may audit your FFL in a month. |
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Posted: 10/5/2015 11:36:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Expect a visit. FFL has reporting requirements pertaining to multiple purchases. Not for lowers. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 6:51:51 AM EDT
[#6]
Ok good to know. So sometime in the next month to a couple years I'll have the ATF watching me/showing up at my door to ask questions. Haha great
Thanks guys! |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 11:17:59 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
I'm ordering a bunch (~40) of stripped AR-15 lowers in the wake of this last shooting. Paranoid perhaps, but I figured why not. My question is, is the ATF going to come crashing into my living room to check up on me or some similar? Do they ever follow up on large gun purchases?... ATF won't know about it. There is no requirement for the dealer to report multiple purchases of frames, receivers or AR lowers. Quoted:
Yes, they may follow up. They won't come crashing in. Really? 
How they gonna know? 
Quoted:
Expect a visit. FFL has reporting requirements pertaining to multiple purchases. Wrong. Licensees must report the multiple sale of handguns and in Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico must report the multiple sale of certain rifles. There is no requirement to report the sale of frames/receivers/lowers because they are not handguns or long guns. Quoted:
You will be watched. I have heard that even if you do, say 5 at a time but do 40 in a short amount of time, say 2 months. They will still look at you. I had this conversation with my FFL a few months ago. They came for an audit and said some crazy things like who is this person? Do they always buy this many guns at a time? (they were lowers) What kind of person are they? Said they flipped through all of his 4473's and his log books. He's not a big dealer and they were there for 3 days. ETA: Like RenX said, it may not be for a few years, but they may audit your FFL in a month. Almost. There is no magic number that gets ATF's attention during a compliance inspection. Several years ago, I transferred a hundred stripped AR lowers to a guy who had bought them online. His "expert" friend (an ARFcommer) advised him that Obama was going to outlaw AR's. 
At my compliance inspection a year later, ATF asked for a copy of that Form 4473 and sent the buyer/transferee a cease and desist letter...........meaning he could only dispose of those lowers through a licensed dealer. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 12:39:26 PM EDT
[#8]
So wouldn't that letter mean that they can't transfer anymore? Or was he reselling the lowers?
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Posted: 10/6/2015 12:59:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So wouldn't that letter mean that they can't transfer anymore? Or was he reselling the lowers? They can transfer, but only through a licensed dealer. ATF IOI said it appeared as if he was not buying for his own use/collection but to resell for profit. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 1:54:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You will be watched. I have heard that even if you do, say 5 at a time but do 40 in a short amount of time, say 2 months. They will still look at you. I had this conversation with my FFL a few months ago. They came for an audit and said some crazy things like who is this person? Do they always buy this many guns at a time? (they were lowers) What kind of person are they? Said they flipped through all of his 4473's and his log books. He's not a big dealer and they were there for 3 days. ETA: Like RenX said, it may not be for a few years, but they may audit your FFL in a month. It may happen at other than a simple compliance inspection. We had FBI show up with a warrant for our books. While the agent was looking specifically for one dude, he ended up looking at every book since the transfers did go back for several years, and he noted the info for several other high-volume buyers. When the same name/date/4473 number shows up on 4-5 pages straight of the A&D log it will attract unwanted attention. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 4:08:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They can transfer, but only through a licensed dealer. ATF IOI said it appeared as if he was not buying for his own use/collection but to resell for profit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So wouldn't that letter mean that they can't transfer anymore? Or was he reselling the lowers? They can transfer, but only through a licensed dealer. ATF IOI said it appeared as if he was not buying for his own use/collection but to resell for profit. I have no plans to resell/regift any of these. That being said how would they be convinced of that-might they issue the same letter to myself? If so, do I just have to stop buying guns? For what it's worth I have these going to a mix of 4 FFL dealers (15, 15, 10, 3). The reason for that is a mix of shopping around for the lowest rate, one of the FFL guys said he'd only do 3, and a surprise check coming through. I suppose that increases my odds for being pulled in an audit, but lessens the amount of scrutiny I'd receive per FFL? |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 4:09:47 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It may happen at other than a simple compliance inspection. We had FBI show up with a warrant for our books. While the agent was looking specifically for one dude, he ended up looking at every book since the transfers did go back for several years, and he noted the info for several other high-volume buyers. When the same name/date/4473 number shows up on 4-5 pages straight of the A&D log it will attract unwanted attention. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You will be watched. I have heard that even if you do, say 5 at a time but do 40 in a short amount of time, say 2 months. They will still look at you. I had this conversation with my FFL a few months ago. They came for an audit and said some crazy things like who is this person? Do they always buy this many guns at a time? (they were lowers) What kind of person are they? Said they flipped through all of his 4473's and his log books. He's not a big dealer and they were there for 3 days. ETA: Like RenX said, it may not be for a few years, but they may audit your FFL in a month. It may happen at other than a simple compliance inspection. We had FBI show up with a warrant for our books. While the agent was looking specifically for one dude, he ended up looking at every book since the transfers did go back for several years, and he noted the info for several other high-volume buyers. When the same name/date/4473 number shows up on 4-5 pages straight of the A&D log it will attract unwanted attention. So they can write down my information and serial numbers based on someone else's warrant!? 
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Posted: 10/6/2015 4:21:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So they can write down my information and serial numbers based on someone else's warrant!? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You will be watched. I have heard that even if you do, say 5 at a time but do 40 in a short amount of time, say 2 months. They will still look at you. I had this conversation with my FFL a few months ago. They came for an audit and said some crazy things like who is this person? Do they always buy this many guns at a time? (they were lowers) What kind of person are they? Said they flipped through all of his 4473's and his log books. He's not a big dealer and they were there for 3 days. ETA: Like RenX said, it may not be for a few years, but they may audit your FFL in a month. It may happen at other than a simple compliance inspection. We had FBI show up with a warrant for our books. While the agent was looking specifically for one dude, he ended up looking at every book since the transfers did go back for several years, and he noted the info for several other high-volume buyers. When the same name/date/4473 number shows up on 4-5 pages straight of the A&D log it will attract unwanted attention. So they can write down my information and serial numbers based on someone else's warrant!? They don't need a warrant to look at the FFL's books. That's their job...they inspect things....like record keeping being up to standards. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 4:57:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no plans to resell/regift any of these. That being said how would they be convinced of that-might they issue the same letter to myself? If so, do I just have to stop buying guns? For what it's worth I have these going to a mix of 4 FFL dealers (15, 15, 10, 3). The reason for that is a mix of shopping around for the lowest rate, one of the FFL guys said he'd only do 3, and a surprise check coming through. I suppose that increases my odds for being pulled in an audit, but lessens the amount of scrutiny I'd receive per FFL? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So wouldn't that letter mean that they can't transfer anymore? Or was he reselling the lowers? They can transfer, but only through a licensed dealer. ATF IOI said it appeared as if he was not buying for his own use/collection but to resell for profit. I have no plans to resell/regift any of these. That being said how would they be convinced of that-might they issue the same letter to myself? If so, do I just have to stop buying guns? For what it's worth I have these going to a mix of 4 FFL dealers (15, 15, 10, 3). The reason for that is a mix of shopping around for the lowest rate, one of the FFL guys said he'd only do 3, and a surprise check coming through. I suppose that increases my odds for being pulled in an audit, but lessens the amount of scrutiny I'd receive per FFL? They issued the cease and desist letter because they suspected my customer intended to resell the lowers for profit. While one or two or three isn't/shouldn't be a problem, one hundred definitely was seen as engaging in the repetitive buying and selling of firearms. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 5:00:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They don't need a warrant to look at the FFL's books. That's their job...they inspect things....like record keeping being up to standards. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You will be watched. I have heard that even if you do, say 5 at a time but do 40 in a short amount of time, say 2 months. They will still look at you. I had this conversation with my FFL a few months ago. They came for an audit and said some crazy things like who is this person? Do they always buy this many guns at a time? (they were lowers) What kind of person are they? Said they flipped through all of his 4473's and his log books. He's not a big dealer and they were there for 3 days. ETA: Like RenX said, it may not be for a few years, but they may audit your FFL in a month. It may happen at other than a simple compliance inspection. We had FBI show up with a warrant for our books. While the agent was looking specifically for one dude, he ended up looking at every book since the transfers did go back for several years, and he noted the info for several other high-volume buyers. When the same name/date/4473 number shows up on 4-5 pages straight of the A&D log it will attract unwanted attention. So they can write down my information and serial numbers based on someone else's warrant!? They don't need a warrant to look at the FFL's books. That's their job...they inspect things....like record keeping being up to standards. ATF doesn't need a warrant, but the FBI would. The FBI doesn't do my compliance inspections......ATF does. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 5:36:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They don't need a warrant to look at the FFL's books. That's their job...they inspect things....like record keeping being up to standards. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It may happen at other than a simple compliance inspection. We had FBI show up with a warrant for our books. While the agent was looking specifically for one dude, he ended up looking at every book since the transfers did go back for several years, and he noted the info for several other high-volume buyers. When the same name/date/4473 number shows up on 4-5 pages straight of the A&D log it will attract unwanted attention. So they can write down my information and serial numbers based on someone else's warrant!? They don't need a warrant to look at the FFL's books. That's their job...they inspect things....like record keeping being up to standards. The FBI needs a warrant to see my books. YMMV. Obviously they have guns and if they are going to write down SNs, they are going to. Whether it holds up down the road in a criminal case is another matter, given how goofy are legal system is. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 5:59:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really?
How they gonna know?
Several years ago, I transferred a hundred stripped AR lowers to a guy who had bought them online. His "expert" friend (an ARFcommer) advised him that Obama was going to outlaw AR's.
At my compliance inspection a year later, ATF asked for a copy of that Form 4473 and sent the buyer/transferee a cease and desist letter...........meaning he could only dispose of those lowers through a licensed dealer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yes, they may follow up. They won't come crashing in. Really?
How they gonna know?
Several years ago, I transferred a hundred stripped AR lowers to a guy who had bought them online. His "expert" friend (an ARFcommer) advised him that Obama was going to outlaw AR's.
At my compliance inspection a year later, ATF asked for a copy of that Form 4473 and sent the buyer/transferee a cease and desist letter...........meaning he could only dispose of those lowers through a licensed dealer. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 8:35:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So they can write down my information and serial numbers based on someone else's warrant!? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You will be watched. I have heard that even if you do, say 5 at a time but do 40 in a short amount of time, say 2 months. They will still look at you. I had this conversation with my FFL a few months ago. They came for an audit and said some crazy things like who is this person? Do they always buy this many guns at a time? (they were lowers) What kind of person are they? Said they flipped through all of his 4473's and his log books. He's not a big dealer and they were there for 3 days. ETA: Like RenX said, it may not be for a few years, but they may audit your FFL in a month. It may happen at other than a simple compliance inspection. We had FBI show up with a warrant for our books. While the agent was looking specifically for one dude, he ended up looking at every book since the transfers did go back for several years, and he noted the info for several other high-volume buyers. When the same name/date/4473 number shows up on 4-5 pages straight of the A&D log it will attract unwanted attention. So they can write down my information and serial numbers based on someone else's warrant!? Yep. The warrant was for my books and 4473's, they got to look at my books and 4473's. They even rang the doorbell too instead of kicking in my door, the slackers. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 1:14:54 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have no plans to resell/regift any of these. That being said how would they be convinced of that-might they issue the same letter to myself? If so, do I just have to stop buying guns? For what it's worth I have these going to a mix of 4 FFL dealers (15, 15, 10, 3). The reason for that is a mix of shopping around for the lowest rate, one of the FFL guys said he'd only do 3, and a surprise check coming through. I suppose that increases my odds for being pulled in an audit, but lessens the amount of scrutiny I'd receive per FFL? |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 1:28:21 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not for lowers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Expect a visit. FFL has reporting requirements pertaining to multiple purchases. Not for lowers. According to my FFL when I bought several from AIM they do. Was bitching about the paperwork as he was filling it out. ETA: I see he was likely full of shit. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 9:04:52 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to my FFL when I bought several from AIM they do. Was bitching about the paperwork as he was filling it out. ETA: I see he was likely full of shit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Expect a visit. FFL has reporting requirements pertaining to multiple purchases. Not for lowers. According to my FFL when I bought several from AIM they do. Was bitching about the paperwork as he was filling it out. ETA: I see he was likely full of shit. Just another in a long list of ffls who cannot read the instructions on the form. |
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Posted: 11/3/2015 4:19:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It may happen at other than a simple compliance inspection. We had FBI show up with a warrant for our books. While the agent was looking specifically for one dude, he ended up looking at every book since the transfers did go back for several years, and he noted the info for several other high-volume buyers. When the same name/date/4473 number shows up on 4-5 pages straight of the A&D log it will attract unwanted attention. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You will be watched. I have heard that even if you do, say 5 at a time but do 40 in a short amount of time, say 2 months. They will still look at you. I had this conversation with my FFL a few months ago. They came for an audit and said some crazy things like who is this person? Do they always buy this many guns at a time? (they were lowers) What kind of person are they? Said they flipped through all of his 4473's and his log books. He's not a big dealer and they were there for 3 days. ETA: Like RenX said, it may not be for a few years, but they may audit your FFL in a month. It may happen at other than a simple compliance inspection. We had FBI show up with a warrant for our books. While the agent was looking specifically for one dude, he ended up looking at every book since the transfers did go back for several years, and he noted the info for several other high-volume buyers. When the same name/date/4473 number shows up on 4-5 pages straight of the A&D log it will attract unwanted attention. Yeah, some danm ATFer would show up at my hosue wanting to play with MY toys... |
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