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Posted: 6/19/2014 7:18:38 AM EDT
[#1]
Read the paper work you signed and see if there is a time limit for them to change or adjust the claim.
If they really want to recover part of the payment, they will need to do it according to the terms of the insurance policy of settlement. Was the vehicle recovered? Is the vehicle listed incorrectly on any documents? How much would the payment $ or % change? I would deal with your local agent if possible. IANAL |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 7:37:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for the advice. I'll be reading the "fine print" on all the paperwork we signed.
Yes, the car was recovered *after* it had been declared a total loss. We reported this to State Farm and they picked up the car to take to a salvage yard, but went ahead with the settlement, and the amount, as was repeated to us many times over the phones in the past two months. I just think it is really weird they discover this error only AFTER we went through all the paperwork and settlement and meeting with the adjustor and signing over our title, etc. I could tell by the panic-sounding voice on the other end of the line at State Farm's state office that they probably realize they really screwed the pooch on this. I informed them that I would no longer speak on the phone about this but asked them to send me in writing explicit proof that my insurance policy contract allows them to recover any overpayment of a claim after we have handed over the title, signed all the required paperwork, and cashed the check which was given to us. Also, I asked them to provide, in writing, from their legal department, the case law upon which they may base their claim that they have a right to recover the funds in case of their error. We shall see. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 9:08:56 AM EDT
[#3]
How much are they alleging that they overpaid you?
If it is a small amount, nobody is getting sued.
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Posted: 6/19/2014 9:15:48 AM EDT
[#4]
They told me for several months they were going to give me $15,000, repeatedly, each time I asked. They came out to my house and we signed the title over to them and signed off on various legal documents. They handed us a check for $15,000. Several days later now they call and say, "Oh, we made a mistake, you should only have been given $5,000. We mixed up your car with another car."
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Posted: 6/19/2014 10:37:41 AM EDT
[#5]
What was the book value of the car?
That is, was the book value $5k and so you should have known it was a mistake that you got overpaid or was book value $15k and they changed their minds? |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 10:57:09 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What was the book value of the car? That is, was the book value $5k and so you should have known it was a mistake that you got overpaid or was book value $15k and they changed their minds? Herein lies the rub. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 11:07:31 AM EDT
[#7]
You spent $10k in three-four days, and the check cleared that fast???
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Posted: 6/19/2014 11:13:47 AM EDT
[#8]
Replacing a car, yes you can spend that much that fast.
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Posted: 6/19/2014 11:18:01 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You spent $10k in three-four days, and the check cleared that fast??? I was at a hearing yesterday where a witness was asked what happened to her $8k+ tax refund. She testified that she spent it and all the money was gone. When asked what she did with it, she said "paid bills". When asked what bills she said "she took her 5 kids shopping at Walmart". |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:27:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You spent $10k in three-four days, and the check cleared that fast??? Yes, the check was deposited the day we received it and cleared through the next day. The paperwork we signed is very clear that they were giving us precisely this much for the car in question, complete with the vehicle's make and model and VIN number. We had previously reviewed this with various State Farm staff many times, and each time, by at least four people, were told what our settlement would be. The paperwork was presented. Signed off on. Check received. Check deposited. Check cleared. What are you suggesting? |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 4:22:04 PM EDT
[#11]
It seems odd that the difference between their "erroneous" value of the car and the actual value of the car was $10K. There are some contract law doctrines regarding mistakes that may apply depending upon facts that you have not shared.
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Posted: 6/19/2014 4:27:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They told me for several months they were going to give me $15,000, repeatedly, each time I asked. They came out to my house and we signed the title over to them and signed off on various legal documents. They handed us a check for $15,000. Several days later now they call and say, "Oh, we made a mistake, you should only have been given $5,000. We mixed up your car with another car." |
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Posted: 6/20/2014 10:50:15 AM EDT
[#13]
What was the book value of the car? Was it $15k or $5k?
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Posted: 6/20/2014 1:05:15 PM EDT
[#14]
You settled a claim with them for an agreed upon amount. Look over the docs you signed which released them from further obligation to pay under the policy. What they are likely to owe you under the policy is the actual cash value of the car for a total loss...if this was a '93 Camry with 200,000 miles you may be in the wrong...but they proposed the settlement to release their obligations and drafted the documents...keep us updated.
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Posted: 6/22/2014 11:41:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Yup, that's my take on it.
We acted in good faith all the way along and I asked them, repeatedly, how much we were going to receive and even indicated, several times, are you sure? We went through the whole process, and the paperwork was all signed, sealed and checked delivered, with the car's VIN number and description clearly stipulated and the amount they were paying us itemized to the penny. We, in good faith, deposited the money and used it. Three days later they simply call me on the phone and said, "We made a mistake" and "How much of the money have you spent?" I called the Missouri State department of insurance and the guy on the other end said, "I'd tell them 'tough for you' and then he said to refuse to discuss it on the phone and then demand to see in our insurance contract where I'm obligated to reimburse them if they make a mistake and then ask them to cite case law which would justify any demand for reimbursement on our part. When the lady I spoke to again heard me make these two demands, she started whining about it "being an error" and she sounded, frankly, a bit panic stricken. Maybe somebody at State Farm will lose their job over this...but we are not doing anything and will simply let them take this as far as they want to go. We have acted in good faith every step of the way. We have never had a car stolen before so it is not like we at any point did anything amiss. We accepted their repeated assertion as to what they would pay us. Seems to me that is State Farm can't get their crap together over nearly months of the settlement process and ONLY AFTER they paid out with all legal paperwork signed, it is their tough luck. |
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Posted: 6/24/2014 4:00:00 AM EDT
[#16]
I am going to repeat a question asked several times and never answered. What was the value of the car?
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Posted: 6/24/2014 4:07:42 AM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 6/29/2014 12:05:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am going to repeat a question asked several times and never answered. What was the value of the car? Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am going to repeat a question asked several times and never answered. What was the value of the car? I bet it's considerably less than $15K and OP knew it. Based on the comment when told the value, I asked them, repeatedly, how much we were going to receive and even indicated, several times, are you sure? |
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Posted: 6/29/2014 12:21:23 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am going to repeat a question asked several times and never answered. What was the value of the car? These are the things we need to know!! |
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Posted: 6/29/2014 12:30:21 AM EDT
[#20]
I am betting the car booked at 4-6k based on the info presented, and for someone who did nothing amiss you sure are going out of your way to ignore the request asking what the car booked at. I mean legal paperwork signed I think they screwed up, but if they gave you 15k for a 97 accord then you knew something was wrong and it honestly sounds like you spent the money ASAP since you had a feeling they messed up. Just my .02/ opinion... An we all know what they say about opinions lol.
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Posted: 7/1/2014 9:34:13 AM EDT
[#21]
Ha, you sure showed them. What do you think is going to happen to your premiums?
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Posted: 7/1/2014 9:46:58 AM EDT
[#22]
Year, make and model?
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Posted: 7/19/2014 6:13:44 AM EDT
[#23]
Unless the settlement has a clawback provision.... You settled a claim with them.
Mistakes happen. Unless you somehow mis-identified the vehicle, or claimed it was newer than it was, I don't know under what theory SF could come back on you. |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 6:21:47 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am going to repeat a question asked several times and never answered. What was the value of the car? I bet he will never say because he got paid well,,,,more than he should have. that being said tough shit on state farm, they screw customers on most claims anyway, sounds like payback |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 5:57:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Update: Still no response from State Farm after I demanded they respond only in writing and show me where in my insurance contract I'm responsible for their mistake and where the documentation they provided me and had us sign when they gave us the check requires us to reimburse them for their F up.
Crickets chirping..... |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 6:12:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Update: Still no response from State Farm after I demanded they respond only in writing and show me where in my insurance contract I'm responsible for their mistake and where the documentation they provided me and had us sign when they gave us the check requires us to reimburse them for their F up. Crickets chirping..... What year, make and model was the stolen car? That may have some bearing on your "good faith".
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Posted: 7/24/2014 6:25:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Are you going to answer the multiple questions you've been asked about the book value of the car? Because it sounds right now like you knew very well that they were overpaying you before it happened. They may or may not have a legal leg to stand on, but you may be very much in the moral wrong.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 3:45:32 AM EDT
[#28]
What year, make and model was your car?
Even if there isn't a clawback provision in your contact, you could still be sued for unjust enrichment. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 3:54:18 AM EDT
[#29]
Since OP refuses to say what the vehicle was, the year, or the mileage, I'd bet he knows there was a mistake made.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 5:10:29 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since OP refuses to say what the vehicle was, the year, or the mileage, I'd bet he knows there was a mistake made. Seems pretty clear. |
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Posted: 7/26/2014 1:38:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What year, make and model was your car? Even if there isn't a clawback provision in your contact, you could still be sued for unjust enrichment. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I think the remedy for State Farm is either mutual mistake or unilateral mistake (depending upon whether or not the OP claims to have also been mistaken as to the value of the car or admits that he knew the offer on the car was a mistake). Is the OP still around?
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Posted: 7/26/2014 2:42:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that Unjust Enrichment is not allowed when their is a contract. It is strictly an equitable remedy if the there is no contract. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What year, make and model was your car? Even if there isn't a clawback provision in your contact, you could still be sued for unjust enrichment. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I think the remedy for State Farm is either mutual mistake or unilateral mistake (depending upon whether or not the OP claims to have also been mistaken as to the value of the car or admits that he knew the offer on the car was a mistake). Is the OP still around? I don't know what happened to the OP. I'm guessing he knew that he got overpaid and left when people didn't side with him. Technically I think you are right about unjust enrichment but if he did get sued, I'd bet that the complaint said unjust enrichment since lawyers are using to using that versus unilateral mistake. |
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Posted: 7/26/2014 5:16:20 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup, that's my take on it. We acted in good faith all the way along and I asked them, repeatedly, how much we were going to receive and even indicated, several times, are you sure? We went through the whole process, and the paperwork was all signed, sealed and checked delivered, with the car's VIN number and description clearly stipulated and the amount they were paying us itemized to the penny. We, in good faith, deposited the money and used it. Three days later they simply call me on the phone and said, "We made a mistake" and "How much of the money have you spent?" I called the Missouri State department of insurance and the guy on the other end said, "I'd tell them 'tough for you' and then he said to refuse to discuss it on the phone and then demand to see in our insurance contract where I'm obligated to reimburse them if they make a mistake and then ask them to cite case law which would justify any demand for reimbursement on our part. When the lady I spoke to again heard me make these two demands, she started whining about it "being an error" and she sounded, frankly, a bit panic stricken. Maybe somebody at State Farm will lose their job over this...but we are not doing anything and will simply let them take this as far as they want to go. We have acted in good faith every step of the way. We have never had a car stolen before so it is not like we at any point did anything amiss. We accepted their repeated assertion as to what they would pay us. Seems to me that is State Farm can't get their crap together over nearly months of the settlement process and ONLY AFTER they paid out with all legal paperwork signed, it is their tough luck. I'm interested to know what the value of the car is. I've done enough work with SF to know they give a pretty accurate value, so if they said 5k, they are close. Also, you keep saying you acted in good faith. Knowing they are paying you 3x value of the car is not good faith. Knowing there is a mistake and not saying anything is not good faith. I bet SF cancels you. Expect to disclose the cancelation with your next insurance carrier, and expect your rates to increase appropriately. Everyone has a price. 10k is yours. |
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Posted: 7/26/2014 7:44:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm interested to know what the value of the car is. I've done enough work with SF to know they give a pretty accurate value, so if they said 5k, they are close. Also, you keep saying you acted in good faith. Knowing they are paying you 3x value of the car is not good faith. Knowing there is a mistake and not saying anything is not good faith. I bet SF cancels you. Expect to disclose the cancelation with your next insurance carrier, and expect your rates to increase appropriately. Everyone has a price. 10k is yours. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yup, that's my take on it. We acted in good faith all the way along and I asked them, repeatedly, how much we were going to receive and even indicated, several times, are you sure? We went through the whole process, and the paperwork was all signed, sealed and checked delivered, with the car's VIN number and description clearly stipulated and the amount they were paying us itemized to the penny. We, in good faith, deposited the money and used it. Three days later they simply call me on the phone and said, "We made a mistake" and "How much of the money have you spent?" I called the Missouri State department of insurance and the guy on the other end said, "I'd tell them 'tough for you' and then he said to refuse to discuss it on the phone and then demand to see in our insurance contract where I'm obligated to reimburse them if they make a mistake and then ask them to cite case law which would justify any demand for reimbursement on our part. When the lady I spoke to again heard me make these two demands, she started whining about it "being an error" and she sounded, frankly, a bit panic stricken. Maybe somebody at State Farm will lose their job over this...but we are not doing anything and will simply let them take this as far as they want to go. We have acted in good faith every step of the way. We have never had a car stolen before so it is not like we at any point did anything amiss. We accepted their repeated assertion as to what they would pay us. Seems to me that is State Farm can't get their crap together over nearly months of the settlement process and ONLY AFTER they paid out with all legal paperwork signed, it is their tough luck. I'm interested to know what the value of the car is. I've done enough work with SF to know they give a pretty accurate value, so if they said 5k, they are close. Also, you keep saying you acted in good faith. Knowing they are paying you 3x value of the car is not good faith. Knowing there is a mistake and not saying anything is not good faith. I bet SF cancels you. Expect to disclose the cancelation with your next insurance carrier, and expect your rates to increase appropriately. Everyone has a price. 10k is yours. The "spent every dime in 3 days" is very telling. |
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Posted: 7/26/2014 8:00:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Your insurance contract says they will pay you the actual cash value for your vehicle unless it is a stated value policy.
I bet SF has a leg to stand on. You knew, or should have known, they were making a big mistake on the value. Things like this increase premiums for the rest of us. |
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Posted: 7/26/2014 8:02:54 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Crickets chirping..... Just like when people ask you the details of the car. I'm just going to say it, you knew they were fucking themselves and hoped they wouldn't notice. You may get away with it, but you'll always be that guy. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 12:54:30 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "spent every dime in 3 days" is very telling. While I'd still like to know the year, make and model of the car, I don't think the "spent every dime in 3 days" comment was that telling as the OP said he used all the money on the replacement car. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 1:15:30 PM EDT
[#38]
I hope State Farm gets every penny back from you so my premiums don't go up.
Insurance fraud is pretty cool, huh? Wonder how you feel about that free pressure washer. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 1:15:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Estoppel.
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Posted: 7/27/2014 2:18:16 PM EDT
[#40]
interesting
Uses this name on other boards: Amsdorf popular guy same guy check the thread linked from FN Forum to BPF, it's the gun he sold here and got "neutral" feedback on |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:58:44 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: interesting Uses this name on other boards: Amsdorf popular guy same guy check the thread linked from FN Forum to BPF, it's the gun he sold here and got "neutral" feedback on Are you NorCal's Troll Account?  Perhaps someone should page NorCal?
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Posted: 7/27/2014 7:23:32 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So Amsdorf is the same person as the OP, Burdette1580? Are you NorCal's Troll Account?
Perhaps someone should page NorCal? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
interesting Uses this name on other boards: Amsdorf popular guy same guy check the thread linked from FN Forum to BPF, it's the gun he sold here and got "neutral" feedback on So Amsdorf is the same person as the OP, Burdette1580? Are you NorCal's Troll Account?
Perhaps someone should page NorCal? It appears so. They use the same email address and if you search for amsdorf virus, you'll see he's pretty popular. I didn't alert NorCalLeo because it doesn't look like he used his first account. Oh OK I paged NCL |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 8:03:13 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It appears so. They use the same email address and if you search for amsdorf virus, you'll see he's pretty popular. I didn't alert NorCalLeo because it doesn't look like he used his first account. Oh OK I paged NCL Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: interesting Uses this name on other boards: Amsdorf popular guy same guy check the thread linked from FN Forum to BPF, it's the gun he sold here and got "neutral" feedback on So Amsdorf is the same person as the OP, Burdette1580? Are you NorCal's Troll Account? Perhaps someone should page NorCal? It appears so. They use the same email address and if you search for amsdorf virus, you'll see he's pretty popular. I didn't alert NorCalLeo because it doesn't look like he used his first account. Oh OK I paged NCL NorCal can also check ptmcain for the hat trick. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 8:47:29 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 7/31/2014 11:08:19 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It appears so. They use the same email address and if you search for amsdorf virus, you'll see he's pretty popular. I didn't alert NorCalLeo because it doesn't look like he used his first account. Oh OK I paged NCL Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
interesting Uses this name on other boards: Amsdorf popular guy same guy check the thread linked from FN Forum to BPF, it's the gun he sold here and got "neutral" feedback on So Amsdorf is the same person as the OP, Burdette1580? Are you NorCal's Troll Account?
Perhaps someone should page NorCal? It appears so. They use the same email address and if you search for amsdorf virus, you'll see he's pretty popular. I didn't alert NorCalLeo because it doesn't look like he used his first account. Oh OK I paged NCL You sir, are hired. 
We do not allow banned members to re-register., but I'm sure the OP knows that after 5 or so accounts. |
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Posted: 7/31/2014 11:17:05 AM EDT
[#46]
So it turns out that the OP of this thread is a previously banned member?
I guess we'll never know what year and make the car was.
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Posted: 7/31/2014 11:31:39 AM EDT
[#47]
Previously banned member
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