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Link Posted: 12/20/2011 12:36:13 AM EDT
[#1]
Page 33 ownage.

And so others won't forget:



Link Posted: 12/20/2011 1:04:52 AM EDT
[#2]
Originally Posted By Furyataurus:
Page 33 ownage.

And so others won't forget:

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo157/Furyataurus/badguyspeer.jpg




I find it funny that back when I was selling ammunition & asked folks online for a polite way to decline to sell to thuggish types, I was ridiculed for profiling/stereotyping & now others are basicly implying I was right without any rebuking.
Link Posted: 12/20/2011 8:55:00 AM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 12/20/2011 1:48:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Originally Posted By 1911greg:
I always figured it was some sort of apartment that you guys were in, thats pretty ballsy that the robber just walked in to that single family home?

Any explanation why he picked that house?


It's a local historic house but it currently has law offices on the lower level and apartments upstairs. Ol boy was shacked up with a cook from the prison he just got out of. She lived upstairs and knew we met on Tuesday nights.



*nodding*

OPSEC was broken by somebody with knowledge... happens every time.  


Yeah, I feel like we were completely set up by that bitch. That's why I was so pissed off that they couldn't/didn't hammer her any harder than they did.

I guess they figured he was the bigger fish, which he was, so they concentrated on him.
Link Posted: 12/20/2011 1:51:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Originally Posted By Furyataurus:
Page 33 ownage.

And so others won't forget:

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo157/Furyataurus/badguyspeer.jpg




Thank God he didn't know about the ones designed for short barreled revolvers. I'd been screwed if any of those rounds had expanded, especially the one that just missed the subclavian artery.
Link Posted: 12/20/2011 2:05:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 12/20/2011 2:22:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Blitz_308] [#7]
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Originally Posted By 1911greg:
I always figured it was some sort of apartment that you guys were in, thats pretty ballsy that the robber just walked in to that single family home?

Any explanation why he picked that house?


It's a local historic house but it currently has law offices on the lower level and apartments upstairs. Ol boy was shacked up with a cook from the prison he just got out of. She lived upstairs and knew we met on Tuesday nights.



*nodding*

OPSEC was broken by somebody with knowledge... happens every time.  


Yeah, I feel like we were completely set up by that bitch. That's why I was so pissed off that they couldn't/didn't hammer her any harder than they did.

I guess they figured he was the bigger fish, which he was, so they concentrated on him.


I trust you evicted her?


It isn't my building.  My lawyer buddy, Brian, is leasing the downstairs and I'm not sure what the arrangement is on the upstairs leases.  In any case, yes, Brian served her with the eviction notice himself, the next day, while she was locked up in county jail.  

She was obviously also fired from her job at the MO DOC.  Last I heard, she is living in another apartment somewhere downtown.
Link Posted: 12/25/2011 5:40:20 AM EDT
[#8]
Wow, this is a great lesson for me, as I just recently began carrying.  I'm glad you made it out okay.  Did any of your friends who were with you have their permit to carry?  Were any of them carrying at the time of the incident?  If not, how many of them carry now after the incident? Just curious.
Link Posted: 12/25/2011 9:04:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Merry Christmas Blitz.  Glad you're still here to read this.
Link Posted: 12/25/2011 9:13:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Originally Posted By LinggrrLonggrr:
Merry Christmas Blitz.  Glad you're still here to read this.

Amen to that.

Merry Christmas!
Link Posted: 12/25/2011 9:15:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 12/25/2011 10:26:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Originally Posted By tc2k11:
Originally Posted By LinggrrLonggrr:
Merry Christmas Blitz.  Glad you're still here to read this.

Amen to that.

Merry Christmas!


Amen.

Link Posted: 12/25/2011 10:38:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 12/25/2011 10:40:39 PM EDT
[#14]



Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


That should give you some idea of just how predatory animals work. It's revolting, but it's life.


Thats a little harsh don't you think?



I happen to like blitz.





 
Link Posted: 12/25/2011 10:45:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 12/25/2011 10:45:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
That should give you some idea of just how predatory animals work. It's revolting, but it's life.

Thats a little harsh don't you think?

I happen to like blitz.

 


Link Posted: 12/25/2011 11:11:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Glad to see that out come Blitz. I remember reading the original and the follow up initially.  



Crazy stuff man. Kudos to you.







Jeremy
Link Posted: 12/25/2011 11:29:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Blitz,



I've said it before, nice shoot brother. Just read this story to my wife who is slow in getting her CCW. She told me after reading it... "I need to get my permit!"



I am sorry you had to live through this crap, but know your story is making a difference. Thank you.



Know you're in our prayers. Take care!
Link Posted: 12/26/2011 7:39:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Originally Posted By feelthepayne:
Wow, this is a great lesson for me, as I just recently began carrying.  I'm glad you made it out okay.  Did any of your friends who were with you have their permit to carry?  Were any of them carrying at the time of the incident?  If not, how many of them carry now after the incident? Just curious.



Thank you.

I was the only one with a CCW permit or gun at the time.  Most of them are very much into carrying now.

Link Posted: 12/26/2011 7:40:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Originally Posted By Alembic:
Originally Posted By tc2k11:
Originally Posted By LinggrrLonggrr:
Merry Christmas Blitz.  Glad you're still here to read this.

Amen to that.

Merry Christmas!


Amen.



Thank you guys and I hope you all had a very Merry Christmas as well.  
Link Posted: 12/26/2011 7:41:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
That should give you some idea of just how predatory animals work. It's revolting, but it's life.

Thats a little harsh don't you think?

I happen to like blitz.

 


I was referring to the fat slag the attempted murderer was shacked up with....but whatever works.


Man, I don't check this thread for a day or so and I find out who my friends are...
Link Posted: 12/26/2011 7:44:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Originally Posted By Unique1:
Blitz,

I've said it before, nice shoot brother. Just read this story to my wife who is slow in getting her CCW. She told me after reading it... "I need to get my permit!"

I am sorry you had to live through this crap, but know your story is making a difference. Thank you.

Know you're in our prayers. Take care!


Thank you again and I love hearing that it's made a positive difference.

The support and prayers that I've received since this happened are unbelievable.

Link Posted: 12/26/2011 7:47:01 PM EDT
[#23]


Dear Blitz:

You wrote:

"Even in the heat of the moment, I did not attempt to shoot him in the back or pursue him."

Knowing what you know now, would you reconsider your position?  Would you ever reconsider not shooting him the back as he was leaving?

You must have thought about this alot and I would like you to share your thoughts with us if you will.

Thank you


Fluffy

Link Posted: 12/26/2011 7:51:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
That should give you some idea of just how predatory animals work. It's revolting, but it's life.

Thats a little harsh don't you think?

I happen to like blitz.

 


I was referring to the fat slag the attempted murderer was shacked up with....but whatever works.


Man, I don't check this thread for a day or so and I find out who my friends are...

I would not scrap with Blitz, dude is twice my size. Okay I might because I know his weakness but his weaknesses are the same as mine.

Hey Blitz, I just picked up a P30L. Love the thing. My M&Pc is still my go to... your wife is smart you should follow.
Link Posted: 12/26/2011 8:05:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Originally Posted By FluffyTheCat:


Dear Blitz:

You wrote:

"Even in the heat of the moment, I did not attempt to shoot him in the back or pursue him."

Knowing what you know now, would you reconsider your position?  Would you ever reconsider not shooting him the back as he was leaving?

You must have thought about this alot and I would like you to share your thoughts with us if you will.

Thank you


Fluffy



Fluffy,

To be really honest with you, I have considered this and reconsidered it and in that particular set of circumstances, I don't know if I would.  Thinking back on it, I probably would have been justified in claiming that I didn't know if he was simply going outside to reload and come back in for round two.  However, I don't know if that would have been enough to keep me out of court, being on the defensive side.  I wasn't the only one who heard the revolver clicking on empty rounds and I'd rather not subject myself to being at the mercy of the court when it came time to answer for "shooting mah poor unarmed baby (who incidentally, didn't do nuffin')" in the back.

The amount of time that it took to turn his back and slip out the door was very very short.  It wasn't like I was staring at his back with the sights lined up or anything, it was just that as he slipped out the door, I stopped firing.  The fight was over, he wasn't shooting at me anymore and he was gone.  I guess that in the back of my mind, I did consider that he might come back in because I stood there with my gun aimed at the door waiting, until one of the other guys finally jumped up and locked it.

I still would say that I would not attempt to exit the building to chase him down the street firing at him as he fled.  I'm sure that I wouldn't have gotten away with that.

Good, tough question.  I don't know if the answer I gave is the correct one or not but there it is.
Link Posted: 12/26/2011 8:15:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By Razoreye:
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
That should give you some idea of just how predatory animals work. It's revolting, but it's life.

Thats a little harsh don't you think?

I happen to like blitz.

 


I was referring to the fat slag the attempted murderer was shacked up with....but whatever works.


Man, I don't check this thread for a day or so and I find out who my friends are...

I would not scrap with Blitz, dude is twice my size. Okay I might because I know his weakness but his weaknesses are the same as mine.

Hey Blitz, I just picked up a P30L. Love the thing. My M&Pc is still my go to... your wife is smart you should follow.


 I knew what they meant.  

Congrats on the P30.  I started looking at them after J_W777 gave them a glowing review.  One of them is definitely on my wish list.

I tried an M&P9c and a G19 side by side a while back when I was trying to decide which to order.  I almost think that there may have been something wrong with the M&P.  It wasn't holding a group very well, while I was able to do very well with the G19.  I really need to give them a try again, but for now I switch off between the Glock and the Valor.
Link Posted: 12/26/2011 9:53:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Originally Posted By Razoreye:
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
That should give you some idea of just how predatory animals work. It's revolting, but it's life.

Thats a little harsh don't you think?

I happen to like blitz.

 


I was referring to the fat slag the attempted murderer was shacked up with....but whatever works.


Man, I don't check this thread for a day or so and I find out who my friends are...

I would not scrap with Blitz, dude is twice my size. Okay I might because I know his weakness but his weaknesses are the same as mine.

Hey Blitz, I just picked up a P30L. Love the thing. My M&Pc is still my go to... your wife is smart you should follow.


 I knew what they meant.  

Congrats on the P30.  I started looking at them after J_W777 gave them a glowing review.  One of them is definitely on my wish list.

I tried an M&P9c and a G19 side by side a while back when I was trying to decide which to order.  I almost think that there may have been something wrong with the M&P.  It wasn't holding a group very well, while I was able to do very well with the G19.  I really need to give them a try again, but for now I switch off between the Glock and the Valor.

KEep in mind your mitts are like 3x the size of mine. The square brick-like grip may suit your hands better than the perfectly egronomical one of the M&P.

The P30 is the cat's tit. I've CC it a few times already. I may make this an OC piece along with my full size 9 and 45 M&Ps and keep the 9c as my CCW. The grip and trigger certainly are nice and the lack of any stupid levers/safeties makes it wonderful to me.
Link Posted: 12/26/2011 10:57:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Wow , great read Blitz , glad you were able to post it . . . . good pics too .

Really glad we didnt lose ya
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 3:36:45 AM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 2:17:42 AM EDT
[#30]
Just stumbled onto this thread from the Carry Issues section.  Glad you made it out okay Blitz and that you were able to return to your family.  Take care bud.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 12:39:41 PM EDT
[#31]
After reading this, I think you did admirably.  Stories like this need to be shown to liberal garb shows like 20/20.  This also beats another issue that the Magpul guys have said in prior training videos.  Something along the lines of "You may be at the wrong place at the right time, you may get shot, you may get killed.  Oh well!  That's your job!"  I'm sure that was more pushed towards the military/LE side of the fence.  It's also outstanding that that POS is in jail now.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 1:32:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Originally Posted By Quikshot:
everyone had there wallets out except for him. so thats why he singled him out and found the holster. put your self in the theif's shoes. kill them or just take there money. you almost never get away with murder and almost always get away with robbing. i dont know and neither of you do either. the onlt one who does is the guy it happened to. anyway im glad you still have your life so what ever you did didnt go all that wrong


We were stacked so close together that he wouldn't have been able to tell that from where he came from.  I was the farthest away from him and he skipped them to get to me.  I didn't have time to get the wallet and the gun out and once the gun was out I was looking for opportunities.

I don't know if bad guys can sense things but maybe he knew I would be a problem.  I was scared as hell, but not intimidated by him.  That's why I wonder if maybe the mouthing off didn't have something to do with it, maybe I'll ask him sometime.


I hope you fully recovered.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 4:52:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 5:37:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Originally Posted By AKengineer:
Finally got around to reading this whole thing. All I have to say is let me know what beer you want for the next Cola Warrior.  


I'm particularly fond of Paulaner Salvatore Double Bock.

Btw, it was a pleasure meeting you at CW 1  


My favorite as well,  you deserve a keg for what you have been through
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 5:49:30 PM EDT
[#35]



Originally Posted By Blitz_308:



Originally Posted By sarge38624:

I hope I am not asking a question that has already been answered. I see this went to trial and the suspect didn't take a plea. What was his defense at trial?? It doesn't seem like there would be much denying what happened.




They tried denying that it was a robbery because he had not been holding the bag with stuff in it, the guy he forced at gun point was.



The other defense was that it wasn't him, because how could we ID him with the mask and hood?  The defender also tried to make the DNA evidence sound like some sort of witchcraft or something.  





Did he represent himself?  Or did he try to rob the public defender too?



Good Lord, that's weak.



 
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 5:59:24 PM EDT
[#36]
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Fluffy,

To be really honest with you, I have considered this and reconsidered it and in that particular set of circumstances, I don't know if I would.  Thinking back on it, I probably would have been justified in claiming that I didn't know if he was simply going outside to reload and come back in for round two.  However, I don't know if that would have been enough to keep me out of court, being on the defensive side.  I wasn't the only one who heard the revolver clicking on empty rounds and I'd rather not subject myself to being at the mercy of the court when it came time to answer for "shooting mah poor unarmed baby (who incidentally, didn't do nuffin')" in the back.

The amount of time that it took to turn his back and slip out the door was very very short.  It wasn't like I was staring at his back with the sights lined up or anything, it was just that as he slipped out the door, I stopped firing.  The fight was over, he wasn't shooting at me anymore and he was gone.  I guess that in the back of my mind, I did consider that he might come back in because I stood there with my gun aimed at the door waiting, until one of the other guys finally jumped up and locked it.

I still would say that I would not attempt to exit the building to chase him down the street firing at him as he fled.  I'm sure that I wouldn't have gotten away with that.

Good, tough question.  I don't know if the answer I gave is the correct one or not but there it is.


According to Missouri law you did good by disengaging. Chasing and shooting at fleeing felon will land you in hot water and you may be seen as the aggressor by witnesses not in the building. Maintaining the defensive position was the best route to go.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 6:58:31 PM EDT
[#37]
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Originally Posted By Furyataurus:
Page 33 ownage.

And so others won't forget:

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo157/Furyataurus/badguyspeer.jpg




Thank God he didn't know about the ones designed for short barreled revolvers. I'd been screwed if any of those rounds had expanded, especially the one that just missed the subclavian artery.


Red sealant on the 125s, blue on the 135s.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 7:14:00 PM EDT
[#38]
Blitz , you got your CCW classes site up yet ?  link ?

I have about 9 family members who are wanting a class now , problem is finding a date that works for the biggest group.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:06:24 AM EDT
[#39]
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
I missed that quote earlier...but it should be noted that all bad guys are not completely clueless idiots.

Most violent criminals have been predators for a long time. They've actually developed a fairly sophisticated sense for what prey acts like and the characteristics of people who have fangs. They can also pick up on subtle body language cues that others might miss...like members of a small group of people all looking at one guy signaling unconsciously that he's most likely the guy with a plan. A bad guy can be sophisticated enough to pick that up. In fact, it's something that retired police officers or off-duty cops can encounter as people who know them can look to them in a bad situation betraying their badge.

Some bad guys react to that by fleeing. Some react to that by getting violent. You never know which you've got in front of you ahead of time.

Bad guys test and prod with all sorts of schemes and behaviors they've picked up from observation or from their criminal brethren whom they often team up with for the purposes of victimizing people. (Like the scumbag who shot Blitz did with that fat slag) To believe they are all mindless idiots who have no skill or sophistication is foolhardy. Nearly every violent criminal is or has been at one point a con man in another criminal endeavor...playing people's emotions like a fiddle. Witness the number of bad guys who turn from attempted murder into blubbering beggar if the tables get turned. It's not remorse...it's a strategy designed to work on people who have a functional conscience like most of their prey has. They seared their conscience long ago.


Thanks again to all you guys wishing me well.  I'm very thankful to still be a meaningful part of my family.  With five boys, my wife would probably have torn her hair out by now, lol.

John_Wayne, I am constantly amazed (and thankful) for the insight that you provide about some of the details that I've given.  Most of us don't have the benefit of learning about what makes these psychopaths tick like you and a few others do.  Thank you again for your contributions, I have really learned a lot from you.  
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:07:54 AM EDT
[#40]
Originally Posted By TEXASROOTERSBROTHER:
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Originally Posted By AKengineer:
Finally got around to reading this whole thing. All I have to say is let me know what beer you want for the next Cola Warrior.  


I'm particularly fond of Paulaner Salvatore Double Bock.

Btw, it was a pleasure meeting you at CW 1  


My favorite as well,  you deserve a keg for what you have been through


 Thanks man.  Maybe one of these days we can sit down and have one together.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:10:08 AM EDT
[#41]
Originally Posted By ceverett:

Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Originally Posted By sarge38624:
I hope I am not asking a question that has already been answered. I see this went to trial and the suspect didn't take a plea. What was his defense at trial?? It doesn't seem like there would be much denying what happened.


They tried denying that it was a robbery because he had not been holding the bag with stuff in it, the guy he forced at gun point was.

The other defense was that it wasn't him, because how could we ID him with the mask and hood?  The defender also tried to make the DNA evidence sound like some sort of witchcraft or something.  


Did he represent himself?  Or did he try to rob the public defender too?

Good Lord, that's weak.
 


Public defender.  LOL, and no, the public defender wasn't in the room, but two of the guys that were there were defense attorneys.  One of them is now our City Prosecutor.  
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:11:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Originally Posted By RJTCCW:
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Fluffy,

To be really honest with you, I have considered this and reconsidered it and in that particular set of circumstances, I don't know if I would.  Thinking back on it, I probably would have been justified in claiming that I didn't know if he was simply going outside to reload and come back in for round two.  However, I don't know if that would have been enough to keep me out of court, being on the defensive side.  I wasn't the only one who heard the revolver clicking on empty rounds and I'd rather not subject myself to being at the mercy of the court when it came time to answer for "shooting mah poor unarmed baby (who incidentally, didn't do nuffin')" in the back.

The amount of time that it took to turn his back and slip out the door was very very short.  It wasn't like I was staring at his back with the sights lined up or anything, it was just that as he slipped out the door, I stopped firing.  The fight was over, he wasn't shooting at me anymore and he was gone.  I guess that in the back of my mind, I did consider that he might come back in because I stood there with my gun aimed at the door waiting, until one of the other guys finally jumped up and locked it.

I still would say that I would not attempt to exit the building to chase him down the street firing at him as he fled.  I'm sure that I wouldn't have gotten away with that.

Good, tough question.  I don't know if the answer I gave is the correct one or not but there it is.


According to Missouri law you did good by disengaging. Chasing and shooting at fleeing felon will land you in hot water and you may be seen as the aggressor by witnesses not in the building. Maintaining the defensive position was the best route to go.


Thanks Bob.  I felt that I made the right decision but it's always nice to hear that.  Hope to see you at a shoot again sometime soon.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:11:50 AM EDT
[#43]
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Originally Posted By Furyataurus:
Page 33 ownage.

And so others won't forget:

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo157/Furyataurus/badguyspeer.jpg




Thank God he didn't know about the ones designed for short barreled revolvers. I'd been screwed if any of those rounds had expanded, especially the one that just missed the subclavian artery.


Red sealant on the 125s, blue on the 135s.


Cool, one more bit of info that I wasn't aware of.  Thank you.

Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:15:35 AM EDT
[#44]
Originally Posted By toothandnail:
Blitz , you got your CCW classes site up yet ?  link ?

I have about 9 family members who are wanting a class now , problem is finding a date that works for the biggest group.


Just about finished from what I'm told.  Your son sent me an email about it.  If it helps, I'd be happy to come out there more than once if they're reasonable sized groups.  He thought that he had some friends that would like to attend as well.

You're first on my list to send a link to once it's up and running.

Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:15:39 AM EDT
[#45]
Know it's been said a bunch, but God Bless.  What a story.  So glad to hear the outcomes! Happy New Year and best wishes -Jeff

P.S. My eyes were drawn to the 'GUILTY's the first time I read it, and for a split second, I thought it was the self-defender CCer that was guilty on all counts.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:45:52 AM EDT
[#46]
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
I missed that quote earlier...but it should be noted that all bad guys are not completely clueless idiots.

Most violent criminals have been predators for a long time. They've actually developed a fairly sophisticated sense for what prey acts like and the characteristics of people who have fangs. They can also pick up on subtle body language cues that others might miss...like members of a small group of people all looking at one guy signaling unconsciously that he's most likely the guy with a plan. A bad guy can be sophisticated enough to pick that up. In fact, it's something that retired police officers or off-duty cops can encounter as people who know them can look to them in a bad situation betraying their badge.

Some bad guys react to that by fleeing. Some react to that by getting violent. You never know which you've got in front of you ahead of time.

Bad guys test and prod with all sorts of schemes and behaviors they've picked up from observation or from their criminal brethren whom they often team up with for the purposes of victimizing people. (Like the scumbag who shot Blitz did with that fat slag) To believe they are all mindless idiots who have no skill or sophistication is foolhardy. Nearly every violent criminal is or has been at one point a con man in another criminal endeavor...playing people's emotions like a fiddle. Witness the number of bad guys who turn from attempted murder into blubbering beggar if the tables get turned. It's not remorse...it's a strategy designed to work on people who have a functional conscience like most of their prey has. They seared their conscience long ago.


Thanks again to all you guys wishing me well.  I'm very thankful to still be a meaningful part of my family.  With five boys, my wife would probably have torn her hair out by now, lol.

John_Wayne, I am constantly amazed (and thankful) for the insight that you provide about some of the details that I've given.  Most of us don't have the benefit of learning about what makes these psychopaths tick like you and a few others do.  Thank you again for your contributions, I have really learned a lot from you.  


JW is a smart guy but that isn't how he understands predators. He is simply not in denial. People want to believe there is good in these people, that they experience what we experience... the majority are simply incapable of social feelings and emotions. They live in a society with values that do not parallel those of the majority, so even those with consciences do not experience life in the way that we do.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 8:33:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: John_Wayne777] [#47]
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 9:05:26 AM EDT
[#48]
Wow.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:03:54 AM EDT
[#49]
Wow! Glad you're doing well. I'm looking forward to sharing your story with my gf who is new to carry to help impart the importance of always being ready for the unexpected.

In hindsight, is there anything you would've done or had with you to prepare for something such as this? Is there anything you would've practiced to be better prepared?

As has been said before, if you should find yourself in beautiful SC, drinks are on me.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 4:59:59 PM EDT
[#50]
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By Blitz_308:
John_Wayne, I am constantly amazed (and thankful) for the insight that you provide about some of the details that I've given.  Most of us don't have the benefit of learning about what makes these psychopaths tick like you and a few others do.


Thankfully the vast majority of my learning has been second hand from people much smarter than me who have made some of the insights I simply repeat. I've recently encountered a number of arguments about what the average joe is likely to face versus what a law enforcement officer is likely to face that brings your unfortunate incident to mind. I come from the school of thought that says the bad guys the cops go after with issued sidearms, good ammo, body armor, and priority backup is the guy Average Joe is going to have to face with just a smaller sidearm and all the protection offered by a polo shirt and a 911 call. Some others disagree with that for their own reasons...some sensible enough and based in statistics. Some more wishful thinking than anything else, in my non-professional opinion.

I mention it because your experience is the sort of thing that isn't supposed to happen according to a lot of folks. Bad guys are supposed to piss themselves and run when confronted by somebody who has a gun. That's the script that a lot of people have in their head because of Gary Kleck's survey and other anecdotes taken from news stories and what have you. Some believe that criminals are largely morons with a low pain tolerance who will flee when they figure they've met somebody who can bite back.

...and yet when you find out about people who commit crimes you find out that while there are certainly crimes of opportunity, a fair number of the criminals have done some homework like your guy did. They have a significant criminal history and aren't strangers to violence. In fact, they're typically VASTLY more experienced in violent interaction with others than your average joe is....than even your average cop is. When they get locked up for an offense they get put in a big box with a bunch of other sociopaths who have formed sophisticated networks to traffic drugs and game the prison system to do everything from smuggle in drugs to make opportunities for rape and murder happen.

Sure, there are a lot of bad guys out there who will piss themselves and run when confronted by somebody who even looks like they can effectively fight back. There are even times when a hardcore bad man can be so surprised by a dude who whips out a gun that in a moment of blind human fear he shits himself and runs. It certainly happens...but it is also true that there are bad guys who don't give a fuck and are determined to win. There are bad guys who will react to a dude that whips out a gun by shitting themselves as they're pulling the trigger rather than simply running away.

My contention has always been that if you're in a situation where you are having to pull the trigger on a firearm while deliberately aiming at another human being and you aren't a SWAT cop who has kicked down a door or a dude in the military who is doing the same or has laid an ambush for his enemy, then it's a pretty good bet that some shit has gone horribly, horribly wrong for you. You're right smack dab in the middle of the worst case scenario. The bad guy who wasn't supposed to get near you because of awesome "situational awareness" superpowers is near you because it turns out that situational awareness isn't a superpower that mystically repels bad guys after all...it maybe gives you a couple of seconds heads up that some bad shit is about to go down. The act of merely resisting which was supposed to make low order bad guys flee has just made this dude mad. The sight of the gun that is supposed to scare bad guys into submission obviously hasn't scared the guy enough to stop him because you're stuck trying to use the bullets it launches to force him to knock off his obnoxious behavior.

So let's tally up all the highly unlikely shit that went down with you:

After all, what are the odds I'll ever need a gun anyway?
After all, what  are the odds I'll have to do anything more than pull a gun to scare the dude off?
After all, what  are the odds that it'll take more than a shot or two to scare him away?
After all, what  are the odds that my gun won't work right?
After all, what are the odds that the bad guy will stick around long enough to empty his gun at me when I'm shooting at him?

Well, for you the forecast was a 100% chance of shitstorm. Not because you fucked up...but because unbeknownst to you, there was some violent scumsucker out there who had researched and targeted you and your friends. Just going about your life you ended up on the radar of a violent predator looking for a meal.

Lots of people argue your experience is a freak occurrence like being struck by lightning. When I look at how many violent criminals we lock up and how many more we release on the streets because we don't have enough fucking prison space to lock them all up, I'm not so sure that the dude who shot you was some sort of rare breed of super criminal that emerges on rare occasion from the mist. I'm pretty sure that we have a surplus of violent motherfuckers who would kill you without a second thought because that's just how they roll. Then I look at a place like Memphis where Tom Givens has had over sixty regular joe students that have had to plug some scumbag and I start to think that the reason more bad guys don't end up getting shot is because most of their victims don't have ready access to a firearm or the mindset to use it without hesitation when the time comes. His students seem to take having access to a good firearm seriously and given that a lot of them have been victims before showing up to one of his classes it's not shocking that they're pretty well dedicated to not being one again. Tom does a good job of showing everybody what sort of animals these dudes are and that seems to help them be willing to unleash some hollowpoints if they find themselves confronted by a scumbag. End result? Lots of bad guys with holes in them and the good guys go home at night.

I don't think you're just extremely unlucky in that you encountered a special breed of bad guy. It seems to me that you were deliberately targeted by the kind of bad guy who isn't dissuaded from a murderous path by anything short of bullets in his vital organs...the kind of bad guy people are most likely to have to shoot.

...and that's the point: You didn't get to pick what kind of bad guy you were going to face. You didn't get to pick what mindset he had when he rolled up on you with that revolver. You didn't get to pick what he was armed with. You didn't even get to pick the moment when things went kinetic. You were backed into a corner by a criminal ambush and had to react. I don't think that makes you the exception...I think that makes you the rule. This didn't go down according to your script...it went down according to his. That's an advantage that bad guys typically have over good guys. They are the only one who leaves the house knowing what they're about to pull. As a good guy you're stuck trying to react to it.

People ignore your story at their own peril. As I've said before...there are tons of lessons to be learned from your experience for those who are smart enough to listen. You've done everyone a tremendous service in sharing it.

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
JW is a smart guy but that isn't how he understands predators. He is simply not in denial. People want to believe there is good in these people, that they experience what we experience... the majority are simply incapable of social feelings and emotions. They live in a society with values that do not parallel those of the majority, so even those with consciences do not experience life in the way that we do.


I'm dumber than a bag of hammers...but occasionally I manage to listen to people who are smarter than me.

Example: There is a fellow out there by the name of William Aprill who has spent his adult life studying criminals as a psychologist. In one of his lectures I attended, he related that criminals have been surveyed on various things including why they commit violent crimes. One of the top responses for why they commit a violent act was a "feeling of accomplishment."

Now that's abstract, so let me anchor it in reality: Stop for a moment and think about how you felt when you graduated high school...or graduated college...or got that promotion...or bought your first house...or finished that difficult project. Something difficult that took you time and effort and that challenged your abilities, the completion of which signaled to you achievement of a goal or attainment of a status you'd been hoping for over an extended period of time. Do you have that feeling in mind? Good.

That's how a bad guy feels when he bashes somebody's skull in with a fucking shovel.

Now I ask you, good people of ARFCOM: Is that the sort of guy you want to face with a .22?



Quoted because this needs to be read again.
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