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Tweaker2144
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Posted: 7/16/2009 10:51:02 AM
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 10:56:53 AM by Tweaker2144]
Copper Plated Buckshot

I intend to load my home defense 12 gauge Rem 870 with #4 Buckshot. I believe that it is a great selection because it will effectively stop a threat, while also reducing the chance of harming those that may be on the otherside of interior home walls.

I was not aware of such a thing as copper plated buckshot, but there it is. It is advertised to increase penetration.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Would that be counterproductive, as I am choosing this size shot specifically to reduce overpenetration through walls? Obviously penetration in flesh ees guud, but the shot does not know what it is destroying.

Should I get the regular lead shot or the copper plated shot to accomplish my stated goals?


???????????????????????????????????????????????????????


Also, BIRDSHOT IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE CHOICE FOR SELF DEFENSE!


556A2
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Posted: 7/16/2009 10:55:18 AM
Copper plating does allow more penetration mostly by preventing the shot from being deformed on firing. I think its a worthy addition to a HD shell.

I also think that 3" shells are not needed, and 00 buckshot is a much better choice for HD.
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Old_Painless
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Posted: 7/16/2009 10:57:58 AM
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 10:58:52 AM by Old_Painless]
The plated shot is also usually "hardened", meaning that it is harder than dead-soft lead.

As buckshot is pushed down the barrel, the individual pellets tend to smash each other into irregular shapes. This leads to increased pattern size, which is undesirable in buckshot for home defense.

Plating and/or hardening the shot helps to reduce this deformation of the buckshot. Some manufacturers also add a buffering material in the load to also help reduce the crushing of the shot.

The truth is that #4 Buck will barely reach the required 12 inches of penetration, and some pellets will not reach that minimum. So, plating and/or buffering the load will improve the load for our purposes.

BTW, you can see the buffering material in 556A2's avatar above.

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VBC
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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:02:07 AM
Copper plated buckshot has been around for decades.

Most buckshot loads you get from Winchester will be copper plated. Federal "Premium" buckshot will be copper plated IIRC.

It's mostly so the shot doesn't get deformed so you get tighter patterns, which means longer range when hunting.

You're thinking waay too hard about it.

Like said, just stick with 00 buck and make sure of what's behind your walls before you shoot (or don't miss).


JacobsandApples
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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:02:25 AM
In before Old Painless drops some knowledge...

...Damn
LuvBUSHmaster
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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:05:26 AM
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 11:07:03 AM by LuvBUSHmaster]
If you want to be the coolest kid, figure out how to get 12 gauge 2.75" hulls with #1 plated buck, buffered, and encased in a Fed Flight Control Wad....
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Old_Painless
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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:08:40 AM
Originally Posted By JacobsandApples:
In before Old Painless drops some knowledge...

...Damn




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Tweaker2144
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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:14:45 AM
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 11:15:38 AM by Tweaker2144]
Originally Posted By VBC:

You're thinking waay too hard about it.

Like said, just stick with 00 buck and make sure of what's behind your walls before you shoot (or don't miss).





How am I possibly going to know what is behind my walls, Superman? Even if I did, people are sure to move about if there is a "sichiation" or the shooting starts. Cue the expected tunnel vision, that is far too much to ask me thinks.

I know a pattern is tighter than most people expect at indoor distances, but 8 or 9 38. cal balls if launching 00 Buckshot makes me think 1 or more will almost certainly end up bracketing the POS. Under armpit, through crotch, through the hole made by the first 1-5 shots, etc.

I am new to the Scattergun's technology. Thanks for the good drops of knowledge!
FLAESQ
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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:19:34 AM
Originally Posted By LuvBUSHmaster:
If you want to be the coolest kid, figure out how to get 12 gauge 2.75" hulls with #1 plated buck, buffered, and encased in a Fed Flight Control Wad....



THAT WOULD BE EPIC....
FZ1Steve
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Posted: 7/16/2009 11:29:11 AM
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 11:31:09 AM by FZ1Steve]
There is also nickel plated shot which is pretty cool. But what you need to do is load your own shells with dimes, the bonus here is silver dimes work great on Werewolves.

nickel plated shot
Old_Painless
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Posted: 7/16/2009 12:16:20 PM
Originally Posted By FZ1Steve:
There is also nickel plated shot which is pretty cool. But what you need to do is load your own shells with dimes, the bonus here is silver dimes work great on Werewolves.



Dimes actually make a very poor load in a shotgun.

See here: Dimes in a Shotgun



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machinisttx
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Posted: 7/16/2009 12:19:41 PM
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
The plated shot is also usually "hardened", meaning that it is harder than dead-soft lead.

As buckshot is pushed down the barrel, the individual pellets tend to smash each other into irregular shapes. This leads to increased pattern size, which is undesirable in buckshot for home defense.

Plating and/or hardening the shot helps to reduce this deformation of the buckshot. Some manufacturers also add a buffering material in the load to also help reduce the crushing of the shot.

The truth is that #4 Buck will barely reach the required 12 inches of penetration, and some pellets will not reach that minimum. So, plating and/or buffering the load will improve the load for our purposes.

BTW, you can see the buffering material in 556A2's avatar above.



Hmm, I've never seen any info stating that plated shot has a higher antimony content than unplated shot.
Originally post by 2theLeft: If done right, there is no taste, because it goes right down the throat..
keroppl
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Posted: 7/16/2009 12:42:15 PM
Does remington use smaller wads than other manufacturers? Their loads tend to have more pellets, 41 pellet #4 buck in a 2 3/4" shell, 15 pellet 00... The reduced recoil winchester 00 I have has 9, so I assume less powder and less pellets means bigger wad?
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Posted: 7/16/2009 1:11:55 PM
Originally Posted By VBC:
Copper plated buckshot has been around for decades.

Most buckshot loads you get from Winchester will be copper plated. Federal "Premium" buckshot will be copper plated IIRC.

It's mostly so the shot doesn't get deformed so you get tighter patterns, which means longer range when hunting.

You're thinking waay too hard about it.

Like said, just stick with 00 buck and make sure of what's behind your walls before you shoot (or don't miss).





If you compare the 'Dimples' from the Shot compacting against each other when taken from a Water Box, you will find almost no visible difference between the two. The Plating is more like a Flash Coating and very thin as compared to something like Rainier, or Berry Bullets Plating work.

If you want the 'best' performance with Buckshot, you need a dedicated Barrel. My 'Steel Game' Barrel on my much'ly modified 1100 is Backbored to .745", including the Choke Tube, to remove the Forcing Cone. This keeps the Shot Column short and compact, allowing the Shot to impact the 'Plate' in as short of time possible. It is the Forcing Cone and Choke that compact the Shot together causing the deformation.
Old_Painless
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Posted: 7/16/2009 2:49:08 PM
Originally Posted By Wack-A-Mole:
If you compare the 'Dimples' from the Shot compacting against each other when taken from a Water Box, you will find almost no visible difference between the two.


I'm not sure exactly what you are saying, but as a matter of fact, I have shot a lot of buckshot into water jugs.

Here's some #3 buck on the left compared to some 00 Buck on the right.



You can plainly see the deformation of the pellets, caused by their smashing together as they go down the barrel.

And here is some "before and after" examples of soft lead buckshot fired from a Taurus Judge into water.



They flattened out very badly, certainly more than "dimples".

Look again at 556A2's avatar up the page. That is what plated/hardened buckshot looks like as it leaves the barrel.

There is a reason that they plate the buckshot.

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Wack-A-Mole
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Posted: 7/16/2009 4:16:46 PM
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By Wack-A-Mole:
If you compare the 'Dimples' from the Shot compacting against each other when taken from a Water Box, you will find almost no visible difference between the two.


I'm not sure exactly what you are saying, but as a matter of fact, I have shot a lot of buckshot into water jugs.

Here's some #3 buck on the left compared to some 00 Buck on the right.

http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=11354

You can plainly see the deformation of the pellets, caused by their smashing together as they go down the barrel.

And here is some "before and after" examples of soft lead buckshot fired from a Taurus Judge into water.

http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=11355

They flattened out very badly, certainly more than "dimples".

Look again at 556A2's avatar up the page. That is what plated/hardened buckshot looks like as it leaves the barrel.

There is a reason that they plate the buckshot.



And how far from the water was the Shot taken? As with the 'Rock Salt Thread', you compare Apples to your Oranges and claim your Oranges are 'right'.

The end............
machinisttx
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Posted: 7/16/2009 4:20:41 PM
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 4:33:09 PM by machinisttx]
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By Wack-A-Mole:
If you compare the 'Dimples' from the Shot compacting against each other when taken from a Water Box, you will find almost no visible difference between the two.


I'm not sure exactly what you are saying, but as a matter of fact, I have shot a lot of buckshot into water jugs.

Here's some #3 buck on the left compared to some 00 Buck on the right.

http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=11354

You can plainly see the deformation of the pellets, caused by their smashing together as they go down the barrel.

And here is some "before and after" examples of soft lead buckshot fired from a Taurus Judge into water.

http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=11355

They flattened out very badly, certainly more than "dimples".

Look again at 556A2's avatar up the page. That is what plated/hardened buckshot looks like as it leaves the barrel.

There is a reason that they plate the buckshot.



Yes, there is, but it is not for the reason you state. Nickel and copper add lubricity, meaning the surface of the shot is slicker. Both platings are harder than pure lead, with copper at ~100 on the brinnell scale(the hardest lead alloy is ~25). Since the surface is slicker, the shot doesn't bunch up in the forcing cone or choke and damage itself(as much). IOW, the shot can slide against one another instead of just deforming as it would with pure lead.

ETA––-Most buckshot has less than 1% antimony content, and AFAIK, none of the ammo manufacturers add more than that, even in the case of plated shot. I did just find this though, but you'll have to load it yourself.
Originally post by 2theLeft: If done right, there is no taste, because it goes right down the throat..
Old_Painless
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Posted: 7/16/2009 4:24:56 PM
Originally Posted By Wack-A-Mole:

And how far from the water was the Shot taken? As with the 'Rock Salt Thread', you compare Apples to your Oranges and claim your Oranges are 'right'.

The end............


Perhaps I missed the posts where you did experiments and posted pictures about it.

Can you send me a link?

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Old_Painless
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Posted: 7/16/2009 5:19:58 PM
Originally Posted By machinisttx:

ETA––-Most buckshot has less than 1% antimony content, and AFAIK, none of the ammo manufacturers add more than that, even in the case of plated shot. I did just find this though, but you'll have to load it yourself.


You might find this article interesting, which is linked in the Ammunition Forum FAQ: http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

It plainly states that many of the best loads are "plated, hardened" buckshot.

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Posted: 7/16/2009 5:23:33 PM
I don't how well #4 buck will do in home defense situations but I can definitely speak from direct experience that it does a pretty good job on georgia whitetail deer. I've literally lost count of the number of deer I've killed with buckshot and the majority of those kills came with #4 buck and 000 buck, respectively.