thanks for making me spew salad on my keyboard





 

This will come off as 'condescending and arrogant' but oh well, you asked.......

You say your doing lot's of "talking"?  Well, I remember a quote from the Bible and it isn't "spare the talking and spoil the child"......It's "spare the ROD and spoil the child".

Lot's of parents don't want to "hit" because they think it makes them a hypocrite.  Well, I have two of the most well behaved children around......every teacher and every adult they come into contact with always remarks on that.  

Two things.....don't discipline out of anger (meaning don't yell in an angry voice or have an angry expression) and always follow through on the "threat" (although I hate to call it that).


Not every situation calls for spanking.  Some times simple defiance is handled best with no TV for a day or two (and follow through on this....don't let them watch!) or sometimes washing the mouth out with soap (for disrespectful talk to mom or dad).

But if they "hit you"?....oh no sir, you're getting a barebutt spanking.  One or two good whacks is all it takes.  I discipline in a very calm voice. Afterwards I usually give them a hug when they calm down and tell them I discipline because I love them.


You asked for others 2 cents....that's mine.

As I don't have kids yet I only can speak from my childhood experience. When we did something bad or that my parents didn't like my mom would start counting....if she got to three(3) it was a spanking, didn't matter if we were at home, store or restaurant(if in public I went to the ladies room with mom and got my spanking). It worked she didn't get to three(3) very often and when she did I deserved it.

A swat on the ass will probably get her attention, and cause her to listen wide-eyed with horror to any words you say to her directly thereafter.

I tried slapping her around - but she called the cops on me. I am on probation, so other than harsh language I can't force her to do anything. She bruises really easily and if I don't want a felony I have to play by the rules.

Our almost 3 year-old little guy started to hit around age 2.  It stopped when he learned to associate hitting someone with a swift smack on the bottom followed by "You do not hit X.  Tell X you are sorry".  Otherwise, he gets the 1-2-3 routine for other forms of misbehaviour.  He generally listens very well, though.

During the transition period, he'd hit mommy more than daddy.  Mom would try reasoning and telling him not to do something.  Daddy smacked on the bottom immediately.

I know it may sound hypocritical to some people, but there you go.

I had to laugh when I saw that. When my daughter was just about 2 we had just bought a puppy.
We had a crate like that set up in the dining room. One day just playing around my daughter did
something I can't remember what, and I told her to go to time-out in the dog box. I'll be damned
she walked over to it crawled in, and closed the door. I laughed my ass off for about 10 minutes
straight.

No, all you're teaching your kid by taking things away from them is that you can be a bigger bully than them.  You're bigger, you're stronger, you make the rules, and you can make life miserable on them if they don't tow your line.  Sure, it *can* work, but you're not going to win their heart with it.  It will just be a competition to see what they can get away with after you take away this thing or that.  Why is it that the parents I've seen do this have absolutely lost their kids when they got out of HS or college?  Because the parent never had anything other than a bully-type relationship with their kid.  They never won their heart or even cared to try.  They might have *thought* they were just getting them to obey, and they may have externally, but the parents did nothing to fix their childrens' hearts.  Without that, they absolutely failed.

Spanking works if properly applied.  First of all, never spank in anger.  If you're mad, then you need to cool down before you apply discipline.  See the paragraph above as to why you should cool down...  You're his/her dad, not the neighborhood bully showing them your toughness/strength.  You are the parent who has been disobeyed, and the child know he will suffer the consequences of disobeying you.  That consequence is pain to their rear and having to apologize by looking you in the eyes, and yes, sometimes my 7 yr old cries more during the apology than he does during the spanking.  It really does break his heart when he apologizes because he knows he offended me by disobedience, disrespect, or some other offense he knew better of.

BTW, if the kid is laughing at the spanking, then you're doing something seriously wrong.  I've NEVER had my kids laugh at a spanking.  Depending on the kid we use bigger or smaller diameter rods, but they're all around 18" or so long.  The 2 yr old... he gets the small rod (1/4").  The 6 and 7 yr olds... they get the 3/8" rod.  The 4 yr old usually gets one in between.  We do not spank through pants/underwear, either.  They get spanked on their bare butt.  Yes, it stings and gets their attention, but that's all it does is sting.  You *can't* hit so hard with a rod that you'll do damage to them on their butt.  The rod will break long before that happens.  Does it leave welts?  Usually, but they're gone in a few minutes.

Once we're done with the spanking they apologize to us and look us in the eyes.  If they look away at ANY time during the apology, back to the rod we go because I know their will isn't broken.  It really is amazing that a small child can't/won't look you in the eye when they're apologizing if they don't mean it.  Yes, we've had some battles over the years, especially with the 7 yr old when he was around 3 or so.  Stubborn boy...  But, once his will was finally broken, he apologizes without any issues.  It really was like a switch got flipped one day.

You guys might not do this, but we do...  after they apologize and we tell them we forgive them, we pray with them.  I (or my wife if she's doing the spanking) ask God to help them not do whatever it was they did and to obey better, and then the child will pray.  We give them a big hug and off they go.  The result is an attitude that's usually pretty good, they know we're not mad at them, they get a reminder to not do it again, and we go on about our day.  Sure, sometimes we're in the bathroom a few times in the span of 20 minutes for the same thing, and yes, that does get frustrating, but I've been through it enough now to know it won't last long and they will realize the offense is just not worth it.  

I've been through/going through 4 kids doing this with very different kids, and I can tell you it works.  I've seen several families do it similarly, and all with good results.  However, I have yet to see a kid whose sole punishment was time-outs or "conversations about their actions" work like this.  They all turned out as disrespectful men and women who I choose not to spend time with any longer.

ETA:

Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived, said this in Proverbs 13:24:

"He who withholds his rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him diligently. "


Pretty sure there's nothing about any time-out, talking-to, or other liberal garbage in that verse...  Probably a good bet that the liberal elite are NOT the ones doing it right.

No one is telling you to slap the woman around... but grow some balls man.  You can't force her to do anything, just as she can't stop you from disciplining your children as you see fit.  Buck up!

How about some Wall 2 Wall counseling.....Wife tries to interfere, same with her...that nosy neighbor, beat his ass too.  Cops show up, time to show them who is king of the castle...

...kid gets taken away and sent to a foster home...should have behaved and none of this would have happened.  A lesson learned and knowing is half the battle

let me put this way, my three year-old son USED to think it was funny to punch me in the nuts. about the fifth time i decided a return punch to the ball-bag was in order. he never did it again. (and no i didn't wail on him just a tap to show him how it felt.)

he also had a bad habit of throwing things in anger at his mom when he didn't get his way, cured that by flying up the stairs chasing him down, and tanning his hide so bad his ass was red for a couple of days. never happened again after that.

some liberal pussys would call it child abuse, but i call it nipping a problem in the bud. my child has never thrown a fit in a store, resturaunt, or family outing. all i have to do is shoot him a look and he knows to start acting right.

I agree with a lot of what's said here about not backing down on punishment but I would add that positive reinforcement is the most effective method of behavior change.  If the child behaves the way you want, reward them randomly for it.  They are much more eager to seek the reward than to avoid the punishment.

Another vote here for quick swat in the ass, followed by an explanation that lets her know you are not doing it out of anger.

I firmly believe that the good ole fashion ass whoopins I got as a child made me the decent human being I am today. To this day ive never been in jail and I still show respect to my elders. A whoopin and beating are two different things. I was NEVER beat , but I had plenty leather put across my ass. Till I learned better.

Been in your shoes...

1. Start with the talking & time outs.
2. I disagree with the use of hands for spanking. Use the rod. You are trying to convey NOT TO HIT, and what do you go and do... I do agree with rob99rt...




Using the Rod, belt, wooden spoon, etc, then becomes the object of focus, and not Mommy or Daddy's anger towards them. Make sure the disciplinarian is cooled down before you take any action. That may take one of you to step in and tell the other to cool it sometimes.

Proverbs 13:24 (New International Version)  "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him."

As with ANY form of punishment, you can be seen as a "bully" as you describe it that's why its up the parents to make sure you're not acting out in anger and AFTER everyone has cooled down, you have a heart to heart talk with the child explaining your actions and why you had to carry them out.

So far the method I described has worked quite well with my child and she's now 11 so I can't say I agree with your statement that this method does not work.

Man are you in for a rough life.  If you are on probation then you are f*^()_*!!!  You will never have any control over your daughter.  Time to get the surgery because you shouldn't father any more children.  You are already in a situation that you can't control and it will only get worse.  Our son is a truck driver and he has no control over his children - now 7 to 13.  Their mother won't make them do a thing and won't let him either.  She pitches the biggest fit if he tries to make them do anything.  He should have ejected long ago but hasn't.  His deal.  Sorry buddy, but you are pooched.

I'm in the same boat.  My second daughter turns 3 in July.  While she is a smart and mostly sweet girl, she can be very willful.  

All I can say is to stay consistent and if need be get creative with your punishment.  For example, my daughter could care less about time out, but she loves her snacks (that's a different battle).  So as more of a last resort, we will take away her snacks later on.  Other options are taking away TV and/or desserts if you allow those to begin w/.

Good luck.

All I had to do was count, 1, 2 and if I hit 3 my son knew that he was in BIG trouble=Spanking.

I used time-outs a lot of the time and it seemed to work most often than not.

I also used my tone of voice, he knew by the way my voice sounded what I expected of him.  

You've got to let them know you mean business and be consistent.

I'm glad it seems to be working for you.  I'm just saying I've never seen any kid who was "disciplined" like that turn out as good adult, and I've seen hundreds, if not thousands, of examples over the years.  A child who is 11 may act quite differently toward you than that same girl as a 21 yr old getting finished with college.

you're certainly entitled to whatever method you choose, but the notion that withholding a toy (or whatever) reinforces your bully status moreso than hitting them does is devoid of all logic.

Don't have kids... but I distinctly remember having my ear grabbed/twisted as WAY worse that getting spanking.
That burning sensation would stay with you during your time out and there was a ringing in your ear that kept on giving.

Shock collar

Let me try to explain if I can.  When you simply deprive a child of something they want, you will always foster resentment of some level in their heart.  Even if you're doing it for their own good and not as punishment, they'll not like you for it.  What often-times happens is that you take something away that they want, they get mad, they try to do/get something else that frustrates you, you take that away, you make them madder, and it goes on until you absolutely can't stand each other.  A 3 yr old, or 9 yr old for that matter, will simply not care if "it's for their own good".  You're depriving them of what they want by taking it away.  They will still want it in their heart, and you're just being mean and taking it away.  You're a bully to them.  That will not win their heart, and if the goal is to draw your children to you and have them really WANT to please you and not just get them to "act" right, then another course of action must take place.

When you spank a child to discipline them, the punishment they receive is something that is over and done with.  Nothing is hanging over their heads.  They've "paid their fine" and the punishment is over by getting the spanking.  It's tangible to them in that it uses something that is near and dear to them... pain on their rear.  They get the pain, they learn to not do an action because they want to avoid pain, they ask for forgiveness from the one they offended (or at least they should), and the offended parent forgives them.  It's like this...  Saying "just spank your kid" is like saying to a guy driving in the Indy 500:  "just get out there and win the race."  Sure... it "sounds" simple when put that way, but what happens from the time the car's frame starts coming together a year earlier until the driver crosses the finish line is what really matters.  Using the technique from the first paragraph (taking something away from the child) is like the guy leading a lap or two under yellow.. Yep, he's in front... everybody else is behind him, and things look great since he got his way.  The problem is when the green flag drops again.  Then any issues with his car are going to be made known when it starts getting pushed hard and the pack starts to pass him.  Same way with kids.  The parent may get compliance for a while (leading under yellow), but once the pressure starts to build and the rest of life's pressures start closing in, the child will NOT want to please you and will do his own thing.  Sure, you might get compliance again at some point, but that's not a way to lead your children.

From what I've seen, folks are *not* going to break a child's will and win their heart for the rest of their lives by simply taking things away.  I've seen plenty of examples to adulthood and I've *never* seen it work out like the parents hoped.  The only ones who I know who still have a great relationship with their parents and still LOVE them are the ones who were spanked, corrected, who asked for forgiveness, and were forgiven.  As someone else mentioned in this thread, there must be lots of positive enforcement, too.  That's it.  Now, I do know some rebellious kids who were spanked some and still turned out lousy, too, but I don't know if the parents followed through on the other aspects of it.  The parents of the one guy in particular I'm thinking of had 3 more boys who turned out great.  

On more thing...  Parents often forget (or don't care) to ask their kids for forgiveness when they screw up.  For instance, I got frustrated with my oldest son a few nights ago and said some hurtful things I shouldn't have.  I was aggravated with some things that were going on and sort-of took it out on him when he accidentally dropped something.  I shouldn't have been mad at him for that... It was stupid, but I did.  It *really* ate at me a little while later, so the next morning after he woke up I pulled him aside, told him what I'd done and asked for forgiveness.  Guess what?  He forgave me.  After praying, he gave me a big hug and we went about our day.  FWIW, I've had to do this a LOT over the years and my kids have always been willing to forgive me because I've fostered a loving relationship with them.  Yes, they screw up, and I forgive them.  I screw up, and they've been willing to forgive me.  I hope it's always like that, and if we continue to discipline and train like we've been doing, I honestly believe it will be.

When my nephew was little and started to act up, I would take him "snake hunting."  Basically, grab him by the ankles, hanging upside down....sticking his head into some bushes and tall grass and asking him if he saw any snakes in there.

It was actually more of a game between us.  Half the time, we were both cracking up.  It's not as funny anymore as that bastard is taller and stronger than me now (picture a 15 year old in size 14 shoes)...and he can take me "snake hunting."  Getting old is a bitch.

Not bad advice.

For the record, the 3-4's are a bigger pain in the ass than the 2-3's are, at least around my house.

Either you can be in charge or the baby can, it's up to you.

Evidently you don't know how to do it right.

I have some cousins a few years younger than me who were given time-outs by their mother.

Their visits were always accompanied by a lot of rolled eyes and pained expressions.  Because we all knew that was, 'how they were'.

I don't spank them because we aren't related by blood, and it isn't my place.  But my fiance's nephew minds her because she will smack him on the ass.  He is a basically good kid but he is downright MEAN to his little sister, and he has come close to hurting severely.  He listens to and minds my fiance but ignores his own mother.

you have a lot of kids, huh?

I have zero kids.  Your point?

Do I need to have kids to observe their behavior?  It is painfully obvious whether or not parents are effective disciplinarians.

Certainly there are methods other than spanking that will probably work.  Too often people are too limp-wristed to rise above being their kids friend and be a parent.  I certainly hope I don't turn out to be one of those when one of my little angels turns out to be heading down the path of being a tantrum throwing shithead.

it sounds like your cousin's sister's wife's daughter (or whoever) is the one who doesn't know how to do it right, since her kids are the ones that don't behave.

My son behaves just fine, but I don't have to hit him to accomplish that.

This.

I'm so glad my  dad beat the snot out of me.  I deserved every minute of it.

They will thank you one day.

A little earlier than that, my son went though a TERRIBLE hitting phase.  Not just a little smack, he would come up behind you, and clock the side of your head with a metal dump truck... not fun.

We tried EVERYTHING we could think of.  We started with talking.   We went to timeouts.  Loss of privileges.  This went on for months, and he was hitting other people, too.  We went up the ladder, until finally I was so sick of it that I told him if he hit me again, I would hit him back.  He did, I did.  Didn't solve the problem.  We tried everything our friends had used successfully.  NONE OF IT WORKED.

One night, by accident, I found the cure:  He hit me with his favorite toy, so I took it out of his hand, and right in front of him, broke in IN HALF and threw it in the garbage.

Seeing his favorite toy broken in half, gone forever, was FAR worse for him than any other punishment we ever found.  You've probably noticed how your kid is starting to use phrases that you and your wife use, and mimic other behaviors.  They're looking at you to teach them how to act, even if they don't know it.  While hitting a kid may solve a problem, it also teaches them that hitting someone is an acceptable action when you're angry at them, so it kind of defeats the purpose.  I've found that, without fail, the more angry I am when I handle a situation, the less it benefits my kids' behavior in the long-run.  The more calm I stay, the more they actually learn - and the more they learn to stay calm under stress.

I light spanking should work fine on a little girl.  My 6 and 8 year old boys do pushups until I say it hurts.  Combine those with chair sits or arm extensions and they get the message real quick.  Now the down side to this is that they are going to be able to kick my ass because they are getting strong.

Remember every child is a unique individual with their own personality and needs.

That’s why shock collars have multiple settings!

Nice attempt at reductio ad absurdum.  Who it was doesn't matter.  I am quite confident that spanking is one of many options on the table for properly raising children.

Kudos to you for avoiding it.  Every child is different, and responds to different stimuli.

You win the thread. I am getting one off of Craigs list and going to  Bedazzle the shit out of it.

At my house the two little rug rats in my avatar don't like to listen to mommy because she doesn't like to discipline them. So they mind me like they are civil humans and talk back to her.

When they don't mind her and she starts getting on my nerves I have to step in. At 4 and  5 now I start throwing shit away. (toys, webkinz, what ever they cherish) If your kid doesn't care that you are throwing toys  away, its because you haven't found the right one yet.

Here's the kicker, don't let them earn them back, throw the things away and remind them where there toys go when they mess up.

Oh, yea I spank them to.

I dont think there is a black and white answer for all kids, both of our boys react different to pumnishment.

Don't get worked up over it. I knew before I posted it that I would have to endure "man up" and "get your balls out of the jar" and other less helpful advice. People can't seem to have a different view on anything with out childish insults.

Spanking isn't the end-all-be-all method of punishment. It has been going on only for a week and I don't think we are going to need to resort to it. Some how we have managed to have the most polite and courteous child among all our friends with out spanking thus far. Is is possible it will need to be done? Sure. Is it possible the next child will need a spanking? Perhaps. Did it work for you? Yeah great - good job. Thanks for the input.