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Posted: 1/17/2002 10:28:06 PM EDT
Simple question....just looking for a show of hands here. If you want to get all political and throw in your .02, by all means go ahead.
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 10:29:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4: Simple question....just looking for a show of hands here. If you want to get all political and throw in your .02, by all means go ahead.
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Oh, geez, not again. I'm staying clear this time. [(:|)]
Link Posted: 1/17/2002 10:37:07 PM EDT
Casting a vote doesn't pin your name to any sort of public notice. I haven't even voted myself yet, so what's up there is a random sample. Go ahead, cast a vote.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 12:43:29 AM EDT
I cast a vote...
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 2:26:50 AM EDT
Hey what are you doing up at 230 in the mornin?
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 2:47:31 AM EDT
I think we should them a few Caterpillar D-9s as foreign assistance.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 3:25:10 AM EDT
Israel is the only democracy in the region. Israel is the only country in the region with any kind of guarantees for basic human rights. We have been using Israel to do our "dirty work" in the region for about 4 decades now. We have only a few allies in this world that are better friends than the Israel. That being said, our interests run counter to Israel's at times, and during those situations, they can be counted on to put their own interests first. I don't see why anyone would expect anything different from them, especially since the survival of everything and everyone in Israel can be lost in a few hours. They have lived on the edge for long enough that it explains their occasional excesses and forays into extremism.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 4:01:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Boomer: I think we should them a few Caterpillar D-9s as foreign assistance.
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"Sir, your verb is missing" [:D]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 4:11:22 AM EDT
Might have more credibility if "Israel" was spelled corectly in the title.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 4:57:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Bricklayer:
Originally Posted By Boomer: I think we should them a few Caterpillar D-9s as foreign assistance.
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"Sir, your verb is missing" [:D]
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Pipe down, Bricklayer. I [size=4]ALONE[/size=4] am the Grammar Nazi, and have NOT appointed you my Deputy Grammar Nazi. These things should ONLY be handled by those trained and experienced in mocking grammar and syntax erors by the unwashed. [}:D]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 5:36:02 AM EDT
We can support them with words that is all. We should stop sending them money and equipment. Besides being unconstitutional, it is wrong. We must stay clear of foreign entanglements.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 5:39:51 AM EDT
There is a HUGE myth that Israel would shrivel and die without US support. This is just not so. They have a VERY strong economy (by far the strongest in the region). Their computer industry is massive.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 5:41:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: There is a HUGE myth that Israel would shrivel and die without US support. This is just not so. They have a VERY strong economy (by far the strongest in the region). Their computer industry is massive.
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Then we have your support to STOP US foreign aid to a bunch of countries, including Israel, so we can test out your theroy???? [}:D]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 5:49:21 AM EDT
Simple. I love Jesus. Jesus is a Jew. Jews live in Israel. I support Israel. Lawdog
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 5:50:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: There is a HUGE myth that Israel would shrivel and die without US support. This is just not so. They have a VERY strong economy (by far the strongest in the region). Their computer industry is massive.
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Then we have your support to STOP US foreign aid to a bunch of countries, including Israel, so we can test out your theroy???? [}:D]
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I say we give them two years more of "business as usual", and offer to relocate any Israelis that want to come over here (they'd make good Americans IMHO), after which wer cut off all aid to the entire region, and just buy oil from the Rooskies. No oil? Fuckem.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 5:53:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Spearweasel: I say we give them two years more of "business as usual", and offer to relocate any Israelis that want to come over here (they'd make good Americans IMHO), after which wer cut off all aid to the entire region, and just buy oil from the Rooskies. No oil? Fuckem.
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Werx fer me.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 5:58:48 AM EDT
No. I like the good work they're doing for us.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:02:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2002 6:04:38 AM EDT by garandman]
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: No. I like the good work they're doing for us.
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Ahhh, yes, how DID we survive in this country from 1620 - 1948 WITHOUT Israel to our aid???? All those good years MUST be a fabrication done by people like me- you know, anti Semitic types.[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:07:17 AM EDT
You obviously have some issues, huh?
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:10:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: You obviously have some issues, huh?
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Yeah, sinking MY tax dollars down a bottomless rathole creates some "issues" for me. What a pathetic attempt to avoid the question of ", how DID we survive in this country from 1620 - 1948 WITHOUT Israel to our aid????" [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:10:22 AM EDT
Support them politically, yes. [size=5]Send them 3 freakin' BILLION dollars a year in aid? HELL NO![/size=5][pissed] Am I anti-semitic? No. I just think it is high time Israel paid for their own defense. I also think Americans who want to support Israel financially should do so with their own personal finances, instead of mine!
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:15:13 AM EDT
I "showed" my hand & voted.[:D]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:38:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: You obviously have some issues, huh?
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Yeah, sinking MY tax dollars down a bottomless rathole creates some "issues" for me. What a pathetic attempt to avoid the question of ", how DID we survive in this country from 1620 - 1948 WITHOUT Israel to our aid????" [rolleyes]
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My history's a little weak, but I seem to recall that we've had help throughout our past- like the French in the Revolutionary war, and our European allies during WWI and WWII. It's a hard reality to accept that we can't adopt an isolationist stance in the world. Besides who would we sell our stuff to, then? Or who would we buy cheap stuff from for good 'ol red-blooded Ammurricans?
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 6:49:03 AM EDT
I AM A ZIONIST. (Not by birth or religion or anything like that, By CHOICE) If it weren't for Isreal the whole Middle East would have been under Soviet Influence. For Whatever Reason NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN ABlE TO DESTROY ISREAL OR WIN ANY WARS AGAINST THEM. THE ONLY OTHER COUNTRY THAT CAN SAY THAT AMERICA. I like the JEWS. They are hearty and strong. They are pretty intelligent. They are prepared for this, perhaps better then the US. Like it or not the Muslims are trying to frame this fight as The descendants one side (Which the western World is) vs the Decendants of the other side. If they succeed in doing that then all hell is going to break loose. Benjamin
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 7:33:44 AM EDT
Furthermore, IF ARAFAT IS ASSASINATED FROM WITHIN his own country then the SHIT is going to hit the Fan in ISREAL and the ISREALIES are going to have to destroy the palestinians. Also in the news: There is a General from Isreal at the Pentagon this week. Benjamin
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 7:33:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AugNut: I don't want to start an arrogance controversey but what would you call it when the Israeli air force blows away a dozen or so sailors on a US ship and then tells the US we were tresspassing in their waters. [argue] [:D]
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Well, I would call it, and have called it, numerous times in this forum, an act of war, or at the very least, reason to extradite those israelis responsible, and hold a military tribunal, to determine their guilt or innocence. Remember the patriots on the USS Liberty. Sacrificed by their own nation on the alter of political expediency. Good enuf????
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 7:58:06 AM EDT
Damn! The Jews are winning this poll as easily as they took the Sinai from Egypt! Any one of the [u]three[/u] times they took the Sinai from Egypt! Incredible that a bunch of WASPs would back a bunch of Jews whose only saving grace appears to be the ability to win any fight, anywhere, anytime! Eric The(WellLet'sJustSayAnyFightAfter1945)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 8:13:53 AM EDT
We give more money to Israel than any other country on the planet. We shouldn't be giving them shit. I don't think we should give any country money.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 8:22:20 AM EDT
My history's a little weak, but I seem to recall that we've had help throughout our past- like the French in the Revolutionary war, and our European allies during WWI and WWII.
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Your history is a little weak. The United States sent millions of men and billions, possibly trillions, of dollars to Europe to defend England, liberate France, and defeat Germany, while fighting a full scale conflict in the Pacific. After the war, we spent billions more rebuilding both Europe and Japan. I'd say we have more than paid off any debt we owed to the French for their assistance during the Revolution. Cutting our monetary aid to Israel does not constitute isolationism. Most of the people posting against aid to Israel are not necessarily arguing for isolationism, but that we re-examine our relationship with them to determine whether or not they are worth the aid. Personally, I sympathize more with the Palestinians over there. I can't say that I like them or their tactics, but I can understand why they are mad. I would be pretty mad too if the UN marched in, kicked me off my land, and told me now someone else is going to live here because they were persecuted by a group of people (Nazis) with which I had no connection to. Just because the Jews lived there 10,000 years ago does not mean that they have eternal rights to that land. If you apply that logic, then most of the people living in the United States ought to be displaced in favor of the Native Americans.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 9:16:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: There is a HUGE myth that Israel would shrivel and die without US support. This is just not so. They have a VERY strong economy (by far the strongest in the region). Their computer industry is massive.
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Their capacity to manufacture the drug "X" is also massive. As is their capability to export this drug to the United States.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 9:21:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By natez: We have only a few allies in this world that are better friends than the Israel.
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[smoke]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 9:26:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By natez: They have lived on the edge for long enough that it explains their occasional excesses and forays into extremism.
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[smoke]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 9:28:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: I [size=4]ALONE[/size=4] am the Grammar Nazi.. [}:D]
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Then will you please, please inform the Major ??
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 9:32:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: If it weren't for Isreal the whole Middle East would have been under Soviet Influence.
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[smoke]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 9:37:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By lawdog: Simple. I love Jesus. Jesus is a Jew. Jews live in Israel. I support Israel. Lawdog
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Tonight I will thank GOD that Jesus was not Chinese. [smoke]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 9:48:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AugNut: ... what would you call it when the Israeli air force blows away a dozen or so sailors on a US ship and then tells the US we were tresspassing in their waters. can we ask the parents of the kids that died senselessly on that US ship attacked by Israeli planes if they want to support Israel?
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(Obviously I'm not "garandman.") This subject came up last night. I did, have and will continue to call the actions of the Israeli's 'MURDER'.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 9:49:11 AM EDT
So which nations, if any, are worthy of our financial support?
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 9:52:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: So which nations, if any, are worthy of our financial support?
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None. American tax dollars should goto Americans only.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 10:08:31 AM EDT
ERIC THE HUN, That fact that they have not a lost a battle; that is just one reason to support Isreal. Walking hand in hand with that reason is the fact that they have always stood and fought those enemies which also happened to be enemies of the United States. Another Reason is that we put them there , in their original Homeland. Furthermore, one of the reasons we fought world war II was the put an End to the mass murder of Jews. HOW MANY JEWS FOUGHT ALONG SIDE OTHER AMERICANS IN WWII. HOW MANY SOLDIERS HAD THE STAR OF DAVID ALONG WITH THEIR DOG TAGS???? HOW MANY JEWS SOUGHT REFUGE IN THE UNITED STATES BEFORE DURING AND AFTER WWII. HOW MANY JEWS GAVE THEIR LIVES FOR OUR FLAG???? HOW MANY JEWS LOVE AMERICA???? HOW MANY JEWS REALISE THAT THE ONLY NATION ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET WHICH WOULD GAURANTEE THEIR RIGHT TO WORSHIP WAS AND IS AMERICA. THE NUMBER OF NATIONS WHICH WILL ALLOW A JEW TO PRACTICE HIS RELIGION HAPPEN TO BE WESTERN NATIONS. RUSSIA HAD NO RELIGION BESIDES THE STATE. THE MIDDLE DOES NOT WANT TO CARE FOR JEWS AS THEY HAVE NO RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE WHATSOEVER. Those are the reasons I see for supporting ISREAL and THE JEWS. This is the only time that I have ever not agreed with you. Granted you may have been playing devils advocate. However for a person of your Standards to use the word WASP was I think below your caliber. I for one know that is doesn't matter one bit wheather I am a WHITE ANGLO SAXON PROTESTANT. So I know that your were trolling. Benjamin
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 10:59:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: So which nations, if any, are worthy of our financial support?
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(I'm going to respond mentally excluding the word "worthy.") I've long believed we should turn more attention and dollars to the south. [smoke]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 11:15:13 AM EDT
Post from 5subslr5 -
I've long believed we should turn more attention and dollars to the south.
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Thanks, but no thanks, 5subslr5, we've already had Yankees with money coming down here once before, and look what they've done! Eric The(ForgetHell!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 11:31:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Norm_G: Might have more credibility if "Israel" was spelled corectly in the title.
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OH NO!!!! Not a mis-spelling!!!!!!! Holy shit, the grammer/spelling police!!!!!!! Run!! Run away!!!!
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 12:03:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2002 12:06:21 PM EDT by 5subslr5]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Post from 5subslr5 -
I've long believed we should turn more attention and dollars to the south of our borders.
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Eric T. Hun[>]:)]
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[:D]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 12:05:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4:
Originally Posted By Norm_G: Might have more credibility if "Israel" was spelled corectly in the title.
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OH NO!!!! Not a mis-spelling!!!!!!! Holy shit, the grammer/spelling police!!!!!!! Run!! Run away!!!!
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M4, have no fear of this man. It is "garandman" that carries the exclusive and exalted title of "SPELLING NAZI." (and he didn't catch you !)
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 12:26:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By M4:
Originally Posted By Norm_G: Might have more credibility if "Israel" was spelled corectly in the title.
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OH NO!!!! Not a mis-spelling!!!!!!! Holy shit, the grammer/spelling police!!!!!!! Run!! Run away!!!!
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M4, have no fear of this man. It is "garandman" that carries the exclusive and exalted title of "SPELLING NAZI." (and he didn't catch you !)
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I caught it. I was merely extending a moment of benevolence. And its "Grammar Nazi." I was promoted from "Spelling Nazi" several months ago. Show some respect, eh????? [:D]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 12:28:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By M4:
Originally Posted By Norm_G: Might have more credibility if "Israel" was spelled corectly in the title.
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OH NO!!!! Not a mis-spelling!!!!!!! Holy shit, the grammer/spelling police!!!!!!! Run!! Run away!!!!
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M4, have no fear of this man. It is "garandman" that carries the exclusive and exalted title of "SPELLING NAZI." (and he didn't catch you !)
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I caught it. I was merely extending a moment of benevolence. And its "Grammar Nazi." I was promoted from "Spelling Nazi" several months ago. Show some respect, eh????? [:D]
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Drats ! [smoke]
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 2:19:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2002 2:31:22 PM EDT by libertyof76]
Originally Posted By DScott: My history's a little weak, but I seem to recall that we've had help throughout our past- like the French in the Revolutionary war, and our European allies during WWI and WWII. It's a hard reality to accept that we can't adopt an isolationist stance in the world. Besides who would we sell our stuff to, then? Or who would we buy cheap stuff from for good 'ol red-blooded Ammurricans?
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It's not isolationist. Its non-interventionist. And why wouldn't we be able to sell our stuff over seas? We only advocate ending foreign aid and overseas troop deployments, not cutting ourselves off from the world. In fact, most non-interventionists are free traders, and support low tariffs and few obstacles to importing and exporting goods. I know I do. I support Israel. They are a little socialistic and "racist" when it comes to non-Jews, but they won their independence, and are fully entitled to be a country, exist, and do what any other states do(have an army, legislature, government, law, etc)
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 2:57:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By libertyof76:
Originally Posted By DScott: My history's a little weak, but I seem to recall that we've had help throughout our past- like the French in the Revolutionary war, and our European allies during WWI and WWII. It's a hard reality to accept that we can't adopt an isolationist stance in the world. Besides who would we sell our stuff to, then? Or who would we buy cheap stuff from for good 'ol red-blooded Ammurricans?
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It's not isolationist. Its non-interventionist. And why wouldn't we be able to sell our stuff over seas? We only advocate ending foreign aid and overseas troop deployments, not cutting ourselves off from the world. In fact, most non-interventionists are free traders, and support low tariffs and few obstacles to importing and exporting goods. I know I do. I support Israel. They are a little socialistic and "racist" when it comes to non-Jews, but they won their independence, and are fully entitled to be a country, exist, and do what any other states do(have an army, legislature, government, law, etc)
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We can't have allies unless we bring something to the table, and that usually is to offer aid and/or military intervention. Kuwait is a case in point- oil's gotta flow, and we were willing to kill and die for it. How could we have free trade without establishing mutually beneficial relationships with other countries? There are plenty of other countries out there that would love to step into the vacuum we'd leave if we became non-interventionists. Brings up an interesting question- is it possible to be non-interventionist and survive? Can we even be a world power (or THE world power) without giving aid or military assistance to others?
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 3:04:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: Brings up an interesting question- is it possible to be non-interventionist and survive? Can we even be a world power (or THE world power) without giving aid or military assistance to others?
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I don't believe we can survive without intervening when in our national interest. Without our giving arms and assistance to many countries I have little doubt the Soviet Union would still be with us.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 3:21:49 PM EDT
I agree. Do you also think the same about our involvement in the UN? I do. We need to be involved to have a say in the direction it takes.
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 3:31:32 PM EDT
As to the UN I can only offer this. I believe the UN is an enemy of most members, lurkers and users of this board and America in general. When Ted Turner and Jane Fonda gave $1 Billion to the UN I knew I was on the opposite side. However, I do not believe we can be the only major country to pull-out. I view the UN as the mostly likely entity for use by those who want a single government for the entire world. Now I would support moving UN Headquarters to Hati !!
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