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Posted: 1/15/2002 10:04:55 AM EDT
I've heard this three times today on Fox News. They've reported that the Battle of Mogadishu was a failure. Anyone who knows anything about the battle, this is untrue. We were after a couple of Aidid's bubbas. We got them. Even though we had to release them later to get Durant back, our boys on the ground got the job done. I find this reporting disrespectful.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 10:11:16 AM EDT
My thinking is this: the soldiers didn't fail, the government failed. Was Viet Nam a failure? I think if the generals were given full rein, they could of marched into North Viet Nam's capital in six months. Again, the soldiers didn't fail, the politics failed.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 10:13:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By John91498: My thinking is this: the soldiers didn't fail, the government failed. Was Viet Nam a failure? I think if the generals were given full rein, they could of marched into North Viet Nam's capital in six months. Again, the soldiers didn't fail, the politics failed.
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My point is, the overall operation in Somaila was a failure. The fight in Mog was a success for the US troops, but cost 18 lives.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 10:15:31 AM EDT
Considering all the casualties, then the exchange of prisoners and the fact that no mission objectives(who knows what they we're?)achieved in Somalia you just have to call a spade a spade. Like it or not that expedition into Somalia was not only a complete failure but an embarassment to U.S. military and political leadership.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 10:18:58 AM EDT
I just finished reading "BlackHawk Down" a week or so back. The estimate, on the conservative side, was ~500 dead Somalis, with over 1,000 wounded. The Rangers and Special Forces kicked some serious skinny a$$. The only failure is our Government placing our troups in harms way for the U.N. No surprise that the media doesn't see it that way.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 10:19:05 AM EDT
Very true, the soldiers did their jobs, the politicians failed, then got cold feet when the going got tough. Americans are so sensitised to an american death, that the politicains feel they have to play into that. The fact is, our entire military is volunteer. These boys knew what they were getting into when they signed up, especially to be in a spec. ops unit. I landed in the mog shortly after, as the armor support they should have had in the first place. I knew the risks, but then again, I volunteered to be there (in the army) in the first place. The politicians failed the soldiers, not the other way around.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 10:28:57 AM EDT
MarineGrunt, in defense of FOX I believe there was no criticism of the individuals actually doing the fighting and dying. I believe there is and should be much criticism of the (choke, gasp) leaders and the (gaskirr) planners. Finally I find FOX reporting on "failure" to be just fine because we're going back and our folks are going to again be in harm's way and no chicken-schittt commander will dare deny anything needed for the successful completition of this mission. ----------------------------------------------- To those who were in the air and on the ground and doing actual fighting my eternal gratitude and respect. [beer] ----------------------------------------------- To the "l's and "p's" above: My eternal PHUCK YOU !
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 10:29:45 AM EDT
OK, I think everyone is still missing the point. The [b]OVERALL MISSION IN SOMALIA[/b] was a failure. I'm talking about [b]THE BATTLE IN MOGADISHU[/b]. News is reporting it as failed. NOT. Winning the battle and the war are two different things!!!
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 10:47:28 AM EDT
Can you expect anything else from the media? How many battles did we lose in Viet Nam? Careful now where you get your data...
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 10:54:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MarineGrunt:
Originally Posted By John91498: My thinking is this: the soldiers didn't fail, the government failed. Was Viet Nam a failure? I think if the generals were given full rein, they could of marched into North Viet Nam's capital in six months. Again, the soldiers didn't fail, the politics failed.
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My point is, the overall operation in Somaila was a failure. The fight in Mog was a success for the US troops, but cost 18 lives.
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Your right but to look at as Nam is a good ides. Put it this way the people on Fox can tell there was something F*ed up about Somaila they just don't get that is was just the gov. putting guys in 1/2 a$$ed again.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 10:56:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SP10: I just finished reading "BlackHawk Down" a week or so back. The estimate, on the conservative side, was ~500 dead Somalis, with over 1,000 wounded. The Rangers and Special Forces kicked some serious skinny a$$.
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With help from helicopters and vehicle mounted weapons.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 11:10:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By big_bore:
Originally Posted By MarineGrunt:
Originally Posted By John91498: My thinking is this: the soldiers didn't fail, the government failed. Was Viet Nam a failure? I think if the generals were given full rein, they could of marched into North Viet Nam's capital in six months. Again, the soldiers didn't fail, the politics failed.
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My point is, the overall operation in Somaila was a failure. The fight in Mog was a success for the US troops, but cost 18 lives.
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Your right but to look at as Nam is a good ides. Put it this way the people on Fox can tell there was something F*ed up about Somaila they just don't get that is was just the gov. putting guys in 1/2 a$$ed again.
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You're right, but they were not talking about the Somalian Mission, they were talking about the fight in Mog. Doesn't this bug anyone else???
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 11:19:20 AM EDT
Has there ever been a time that our leaders did NOT act in a fashion contrary to the best interests of the public or our military? This is how you approach these kinds of topics.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 11:29:48 AM EDT
Doesn't this bug anyone else???
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Consider me bugged. The fundamental flaw in the mission (the whole expedition, not just the battle) was that it was attempting to accomplish a very ambitious goal ("nation building") through very modest means (handing out food, disarming the clans, hunting down Aidid and company) with the expectation of minimal cost. Although the "Blackhawk Down" battle was the catalyst for America's withdrawal from Somalia, the war had really been lost from the start at the strategic level.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 11:51:52 AM EDT
I just wish Rush Limbaugh's television show was still on. I remember that back in May, 1993, well before the Oct. 'Black Hawk Down' battle, President Clinton 'marched' across the White House Lawn at the head of a military parade. Rush used the clip over and over on his show, just as a mockery of Clinton at the head of a troop of real soldiers! Anyway, at the makeshift podium, he announced that the humnaitarian mission had been accomplished spectacularly and even went on to give a nod to Bush, Sr., who sent our men there in the first place! So why were our men still there months later? 'Cause Clinton and his best and brightest thought that 'nation building' wouldn't be a bad legacy! Eric The(HeWas,Is,AndAlwaysWillBe,APOS!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 12:09:43 PM EDT
When the Marines were running the show Somalia was a sucess. Baidoa had been completly restored to order and the rest of the nation was following. When the Marines handed the mission over to the army, ( and Bush handed the Whitehouse to Clinton) it all fell apart. Clinton and the Army fvcked up. If Bush and the Marines had remained in charge the ending would have been very different.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 12:13:45 PM EDT
You're shitting us, right. Then entire operations was a goat rope from day one. The mission (meals on wheels) was a complete joke that exposed all US forces (that includes Marines) to unnecessary risk with no option for proactive engagements. Real Marines don't need you to troll for them.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 12:16:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 5:11:56 PM EDT
Americans are just so sensitized to US casualties. Don't get me wrong, I pray for every one of our men who put themselves in harms way, but war leads to casualties. I guess it is a compliment to our forces that the public expects them to fight thousands and win without a single loss, but it's not very realistic. Still, 18 dead for 500 - 700 enemy killed is a pretty damned good average. I say our boys did us proud.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 9:17:12 PM EDT
Somalia wasn't a complete backfire. Aideed got himself wacked about 6 months later by a rival warlord. I kinda smell the CIA in this assasination, not planned by but encouraged to. All of those warlords have aggressive rivals waiting in the wings. Promise them that you'll get the authorities to look the other way and these once powerful people will drop like flies.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 2:11:23 PM EDT
For those who have not watched it, go to [url]www.cspan.org[/url] and look for Black Hawk Down on the search box on the left. That is a panel discussion about the mission in Somalia and in particular about the operation on Oct. 3rd-4th. Included in the panel are for example; Colonels Tom Matthews and Lee Van Arsdale, Mark Bowden, Ridley Scott, Jerry Bruckheimer etc.. Gives even a person who has not read the book nor knows anything about the operation a very good view on the operation.
Link Posted: 1/16/2002 2:15:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE: You're shitting us, right. Then entire operations was a goat rope from day one.
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Really? What unit were you with? There were not that many of us there on "day one".
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