No, of course not.
THEIR religions are silly fairy tales, that are just invented to control the ignorant masses.

weren't you paying attention? MY God is the only true God, and to think otherwise will earn you...(checking business charter)...a nice free swim at the fabulous "Lake of Fire" hotel and country club! all travel arraingements will be made our local "agents", don't mind the bonfire, it'll all be over soon!

NO, we are NOT limited to a specific "god."

The basic premise is whether A "god" exists, and then the immediate following question "What is my personal responsibility to that God?"

FYI - jews and Christians and Muslims share essentially the same Father God. It only gets fuzzy when you look beyond the Father God into the other personages of the trinity - Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, and then prophets like Mohammed. But for sake of clarity of the discussion, PLEASE don't muddy the waters by running down those rabbit trails UNTIL we have satisfactorily answered THIS question. All in good time...

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that Jews, Muslims, and Hindus *might* have a problem with that "we're all coming from the same place" notion.  I know have a problem with that.  Where are those Rabbi's and Imam's when you need them?

I can only conclude that since all peoples, whether deists or animists, have "god" concepts only the *idea* of "god" is actually universal to the human experience.  (As an aside, we have nothing to suggest animals have gods, do we?)

For this reason, therefore, it seems clear that man needed to create God, not the other way around.  

Along the same lines, Marx (?) was right when he said that religion was the "opiate of the masses."  Better left for another thread, perhaps...

I'm certain there's a God, because in the beginning, there was nothing, which then exploded. In an infinite universe, with infinite possibilities, I believe in a caring, loving God, who possesses infinite compassion. And why shouldn't he? It's his project...

Or, maybe it's never been "nothing" but has always been "something" that we may never fully understand.  All we are capable of grasping is what we see and/or believe.  Imagine trying to explain the concept of time (or variable rate mortgages) to a fish...

Ahh, we already live in CA, don't we?

[left]I believe in jesus, and i believe in god because i choose to serve him! nobody can shove god down anyone's throat it is between you and god its all up to you. think about this the reason we were attacked was because of morons used god for there own evil purposes.[/left]

I believe in God, and Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins. But I always wasn't this way. I used to believe solely in science, and what wasn't proven to me wasn't true. I also believed that the things science couldn't prove were only because we couldn't prove it yet. Just as man didn't understand how birds flew until we ourselves learned how to fly.

But religion is based on faith, and not hard proven fact that we see day to day.  I believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and was resurrected in 3 days. Science can't explain someone (anyone) being dead and coming back to life. That alone tells me that there must be a God. That's all it took for me. Yes, it is true, once you have faith, and then you have proof for the things that are unexplainable. I don't see a problem with that if you can't give me a better answer.

Now look guy, you've already admitted you don't know where the "carriers" are.  I don't care about the "state 6" seas it was your job to stay up with the carriers and you've done lostem.

Now as an ET3 (Electronics Technician Third Class) you were more accustomed to working with the unexplainable - how many hours have you spent looking for a volt here or an amp there but you have never seen one ?  NO!  (Have you ??)
So give some of us a break that have not worked on a daily basis with the unexplainable.

By your own admission you were "SurfaceWar" which to a sub sailor simply means target-of-convenience.

Oh, stop looking for the carriers.  We sunkem hours ago.
[:D]

G-man,
Have you ever been to Vegas?
Your lincoln log idea doesn't prove anything. In Vegas it's possible to roll fifteen passing numbers at craps in a row, even though the odds say I should only be able to roll five before the next 7 comes up.  We [b]could[/b] be on a really long streak of good luck. I say [b]let it ride[/b]
-CK

Just do what they told us in school... Push the "I Believe" button.[;)]


BTW: I am active duty.
[Edited for the "BTW"]

BTW: I am active duty.
Sailor, then there is still an opportunity for you to leave the "surface" where you are the hunted and join my brothers beneath the waves and become the "HUNTER."

That "I believe button" - got to something new they're teaching you guys since I got out.
(Former ST1(SS)

There is no logical proof or disproof of the existence of God, as he exists (if he does) outside of the constraints of logic. One must either make the leap of faith and believe, or not.

Trying to justify that belief with false reasoning just leads to bad mental habits. Take Him on faith, or don't.

(Marine) Major-Murphy,
These "ignorant masses" (IMG) you reference - I'm very familiar with this group having found out I was a member long ago but what I'm trying to find is the "Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy Group" that forced Ex. clinton do those bad things.
(I believe that it was "Last-Broad Hitlery" that identified the VRWCG terrorist as the group responsible.)

Anyway I've been trying to find the VRWCG for several years now so I can join but no luck.

Do you have any contacts within this group ??

Do you believe the IMG and the VRWCG are somehow aligned ??  Maybe I'm a member and hust don't know it.

See garandman it is not hard for me to ask anyone at Microsoft, so I did and you are wrong.  Steve Ballmer is NOT the final authority at Microsoft. Your whole theory of “God must exist because there has to be a final authority” is immature and shows a lack of knowledge of the real world.  Does your being ignorant mean there is NOT a God, no but your theory does not prove it either.  

Bill Gates (as you said originally) nor Steve Ballmer as you amended after I hit you with facts again and again (getting you to face reality is like pulling teeth from a very live chimpanzee) are not the “final authority” at Microsoft because there is no “final authority” at Microsoft.  The world just is not that black and white and it is naïve to think that it is.  Again I ask you, can Steve Ballmer or Bill Gates or anyone write a check to themselves from Microsoft for $15 million dollars just because they want the money and not be held accountable later?  No.

Then you mention President Bush is the final authority in the Government.   Again that is untrue.  He is not, because the world is not as simplistic as your little mind.  The President has to answer to people.  He may be able to make some decisions on his own but if he oversteps his bounds he can face accountability, something that he would not have to worry about if he was this magical “final authority” from your fantasyland.  

Next we have Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld whom you also mention in your theory as proof of a “final authority”.  It is obvious that even if you believe in your silly theory that Donald Rumsfeld cannot be the “final authority” In the military because he is under what you have already concluded to be the “final authority” in the government the President, George W. Bush whether in peacetime or wartime.  

I could go on and on about how silly your theory is but you are not man enough to admit it is stupid and wrong.  You are a child.  All I ask is that before you start to call other people stupid you do a little research on your pathetic theories first.


On the other hand just because you believe in God and are stupid does not disprove the existence of God.  You are as incapable of that as much as you are incapable of proving there is a God.   As a matter of fact because you are so stupid it may actually help you disprove the theory of evolution, I mean you seem to me to be more proof for a theory of devolution than a theory of evolution.

Have a nice day[:D],

-Velveeta

-> Edited to correct a spelling error <-

because this thread will go on for eternity
                                     ;{>

So does Hell, I'm told...

[:P]

Major-Murphy,
What do you believe in ?[?]  (No flame - real question)
As an Agnostic, I don't fit into most of these black and white arguments - there is/isn't and positively.

I have been reading some of this off and on for a week now.
I am a born again believer in Jesus Christ. I was raised that way, went through all of the routine thing's that young people go throgh in the Lutheran Church. Infant baptism and Confirmation at the end of which everyone stand's in front of the congregation and make's a public profession of faith. This is for those who do not know about the practice's in the Church.
But none of this meant much to me at the time. It was required and I went along with it because it was the thing to do.
Not until My Senior year in High School did this come together.
I went to a Bible study for kid's my age one night (I was more intersted in meeting girl's than Bible study's)and was led to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and have had a personal realtionship with Him ever since.
You may call me weak, simple minded or believeing in an old book or religion. That is certainly your right to do as God Created you and me with a free will to choose just as He did with Adam and Eve and they exercised their free will. I know the result of that action as do the rest of those who believe in God and the Bible.
I KNOW where I am going to spend eternity with out any doubt whatsoever. It is going to be in the Paradise described in the Bible. Nothing will ever convince me otherwise.
I do not need to see sensory proof that God  exist's, although we are surrounded by it every moment of our existance like it or not.
The thing is if you claim there is no God or you do not beleive in a God and you think you have come to this conclusion on your own you are being seriously deceived by the only other choice than to believe in The God of the Universe.
That choice is an eternity separated from God and His love for you.
Yes even if you choose to reject the notion of a God or His existance he still loves you and want's you to know him.
The choice is your's and your's alone. If you reject God and the free gift of His son's death on the cross to give you eternal life with Him, then the ONLY other option has already been decided for you and that will be eternal separation from God no way around it.

My apologies for the long post.

Lee

   Actually I lived in Hell for nine years, but we parted ways. She lives in Rhode Island if you want a taste of it, I'll BC you her phone number.... GIB ;{>

I believe Marx's 'Das Kapital' is the 'opiate of the masses,' ever try reading without nodding off ?.....GIB  ;{>

Thanks, but that'd be too far to travel to go to hell... I manage pretty well locally!  [;)]

About all I could handle is the "sound bites" version... just a little spice for these discussions, I think!