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Posted: 3/10/2001 11:03:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 11:19:10 AM EDT
To borrow a line from the gun control crowd, if it will save just one innocent life, we should do away with no-knock warrants. Being a citizen in a free country presents certain dangers, but danger delivered by the hands of the police is NOT supposed to be on the list of risks we need face to remain free. Being a cop is a dangerous job, and no recruit goes into law enforcemnt thinking otherwise. Let those who choose to voluntarily enter such a profession face the risks. Their lives are no more valuable than mine, and less valuable than my freedom.
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 11:28:00 AM EDT
These raids will escalate and in the near future warrants will be served for siezure of "brick-like packages" which will not be illegal drugs, but illegal military ammunition battle packs.
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 11:43:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 11:51:04 AM EDT
Their HIGH RISK WARRANT jobs will get higher in the risk department when the people tire of their GESTAPO TACTICS! They push, then push some more, until one day all hell breaks loose, then so much for a peaceful nation! THEY ARE OUT OF CONTROL, AND NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE!
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 12:14:25 PM EDT
this was posted on the firing line forums by a member named HankB - If you're really worried about this, it seems the *first* line of defense should be a really, really strong door. (Or maybe an outdoor motion sensor should be first?) I remember, a couple of decades ago, police took a news crew along on a warrant search. They yelled "POLICE" and almost immediately started pounding on the door with sledgehammers. And pounding. And pounding. After a bit, a small window on the door opened - just like an old speakeasy - and the resident said, "What you want?" Police demanded he open up - and he refused UNTIL THEY SHOWED HIM THE WARRANT, AND LET HIM READ IT THROUGH THE WINDOW, whereupon he DID comply. There was no contraband found in the house, but the door looked to be made of 2x6's on the inside, with reinforced metal straps. When asked - on camera - why the strong door, the resident said "It's a bad neighborhood." - good answer to no-knock, unbreakable door.
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 12:18:54 PM EDT
No, not really worried myself but the strong door, any strong door is a great idea!
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 12:21:44 PM EDT
I would have asked the cops why didn't they arrest him on his way to or from work, or the grocery store and see what sort of answer they can come up with.
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 1:14:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 1:32:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 1:37:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ticonderoga: I would have asked the cops why didn't they arrest him on his way to or from work, or the grocery store and see what sort of answer they can come up with.
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It wouldn't be nearly as exciting or glamorous. Personally, I keep five 30 rounders loaded up, in case someone decides to "no knock" visit me at 3AM.
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 2:03:18 PM EDT
As a bail bondsman I can tell you that these "high risk" raids are usually pretty easy to avoid. The problem is that there is a little more work and time involved. Houses are very easy to watch and see who comes and goes. If the place is in an apartment complex the task becomes a little harder. But a fun and neat trick is to cut the power at night and wait until the people come out to look around. Works every time.
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 2:08:17 PM EDT
You don't serve a warrant on a crack dealer at the shopping mall for several reasons. One might be that the majority of the drugs are at his house which doubles as a meth lab. Another one is that you don't want the possible shootout to go down with all kind of innocent bystanders caught in the cross fire. There is a difference between a search warrant and an arrest warrant. A search warrant is to seize property, an arrest warrant is to seize people. You guys are using the mistaken assumption that everyone is innocent, law-abiding and willing to come peacefully because they have nothing to hide. No-knock warrants are not given out for guys who forgot to pay a couple of parking tickets. They are given out for guys into serious felonies that likely aren't coming in peacefully if given the chance to resist.
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 2:16:18 PM EDT
All persons are presumed innocent until proven guilty, and are afforded all of the immunities and protections enumerated in our Constitution. If it takes a little extra time and energy to devise, or to wait for a way to apprehend someone, or search their premises in a polite, legal manner, then so be it.
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 2:33:19 PM EDT
Im with sf46 on this one.
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 2:48:32 PM EDT
sf46, If you can't figure this out it will truely amaze me. You wait and see who is in the house and who isn't. Intelligence is your main asset. You wait until the person is out of his element and stop him. Then you can search his house and seize any evidence. If you know anything about human psychology you know that a person who is in a very familiar environment is much more dangerous than someone who is not. As far as getting into a shootout in a mall, if you did this you messed up pretty badly. The idea is you get them so quickly that they are confused and have no chance to build adrenaline into a fight. Give them no chance. Doing it in this fasion also lets you pick your time. If you know he goes down to the local 7-11 for some smokes every day you have someone waiting inside, someone outside around the corner, someone sitting in the passenger seat of a car and maybe someone on the pay phone outside. He gets out of his vehicle and goes to the door. Let him start opening the door and at that point he doesn't have a chance. As far as your mall analogy, you wouldn't get him inside a crouded mall. You let him go in while you pull the ignition wire off of his car or something similar like sticking something in his drivers side lock so his key doesn't work on that side. He goes around and gets in on the passenger side and then you nail him. Then you can go search to your hearts content at his house.
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 2:57:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By critter_FR: All persons are presumed innocent until proven guilty, and are afforded all of the immunities and protections enumerated in our Constitution. If it takes a little extra time and energy to devise, or to wait for a way to apprehend someone, or search their premises in a polite, legal manner, then so be it.
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Not really. In the 80s things were changed so property associated with drugs could be siezed and YOU had to PROVE YOUR INNOCENCE. If you couldn't, you lost your property. It still is like this. I could not be more against this type of forfeiture clause.
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 3:22:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wobblin Goblin: Not really. In the 80s things were changed so property associated with drugs could be siezed and YOU had to PROVE YOUR INNOCENCE. If you couldn't, you lost your property. It still is like this. I could not be more against this type of forfeiture clause.
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I was going to say that I was speaking hypothetically, but that would be speaking about a situation that may exist at some future period. But since I was speaking about a situation that's supposed to exist now, what would you call it? "supposetically" speaking? [:)] I know what they do these days, but their actions are directly opposed to what was guaranteed us in the Constitution. Trouble is, we put up with it. You're a nutmegger, what do you think of our "turn in your neighbor" law? I think it's ultimate in fascism! I have a nut case ex wife, who has gone to almost any length to screw me. When they passed that bill, I was sure that it's only a matter of time before she tells the police that she fears for her life, and they swear out a warrant to come and take my guns. Fortunately, she hasn't as yet, but I took the liberty of editorializing my feelings about this law in The Voice News, here in NW CT. I ended the piece by stating that any attempt to violate my rights, by coming to take my guns based on hearsay evidence will be met with equal or greater force, at the door. Try it at your own risk. I'm at a point where I'm not playing their fascist games anymore. [:)]
Link Posted: 3/10/2001 3:47:03 PM EDT
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