Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Log In

A valid email is required.
Password is required.
Site Notices
2/23/2017 5:55:53 PM
Posted: 12/11/2001 11:27:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2001 11:34:29 PM EST by Imbroglio]
He is a threat to safety in exchange for liberty. [url]www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2001/tst121001.htm[/url] Terrorism and the Expansion of Federal Power The events of September 11th understandably made Americans far more concerned about their safety here at home. All of us want action taken to diminish the threat of future terrorist attacks, and President Bush is doing a very good job of pursuing bin Laden and his cohorts overseas. The proper focus should be on identifying those responsible and using limited military force to bring them to justice. We should arrest or kill the perpetrators abroad, use our armed forces more wisely to defend our borders, and reform immigration laws to keep terrorists out. [b]Unfortunately, the focus in Congress seems to be on a domestic agenda that will adversely affect millions of ordinary Americans without making us any safer. An example can be found in a Customs Service bill slated for a vote in the House this week. This bill gives customs and postal agents new authority to open and inspect outgoing U.S. mail without probable cause or a warrant.[/b] I don't think many Americans are comfortable with having federal agents open and search the mail they send! Of course it's easier to pass such a measure when the public is in a fearful mood and demanding action. Ten or twenty years from now, when the recent attacks are a distant memory, federal agents will still be opening mail- mail sent by American citizens, not terrorists. Americans face an internal threat every bit as dangerous as foreign terrorists: the loss of domestic freedoms. Every 20th century crisis- two great wars and a decade-long economic depression- led to rapid expansions of the federal government. The cycle is always the same, with temporary crises used to justify permanent new laws, agencies, and programs. The cycle is repeating itself. Congress has been scrambling to pass new legislation (and spend billions of your tax dollars) since September. Most of the news laws passed and dollars spent have nothing to do with defending our borders and cities against terrorist attacks. I have already written and spoken at length concerning the dangers to our civil liberties posed by the rush to pass new laws. I do not believe that our Constitution permits federal agents to monitor phones, mail, or computers without a warrant. I do not believe that government should eavesdrop on confidential conversations between attorneys and clients. I certainly do not believe "terrorism" should be defined so broadly that American citizens expressing dissent against their own government could be investigated and prosecuted as terrorists. Remember, President Bush will not be in office forever. History demonstrates that the powers we give the federal government today will remain in place indefinitely. How comfortable are you that future Presidents won't abuse those powers? Politically-motivated IRS audits and FBI investigations have been used by past administrations to destroy political enemies. It's certainly possible that future executives could use their new surveillance powers in similarly unethical ways. The bottom line is that every American should be very concerned about the unintended consequences of policies promoted to fight an unending, amorphous battle against terrorism.
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 12:37:41 AM EST
Yeah that's all good Imbroglio, but it still doesn't cover the threat to us (by us I suppose!) by those of us that use UPS/FedEx! I believe in order to [b]FEEL[/b] safer we should make all of the other private letter&package delivery services part of the Federal Gubmint! Not to mention, I am sure service will improve due to the fact that gubmint can do no wrong.
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 2:25:38 AM EST
To much government is no good and not enough enables terrorists. Does this mean Klinton Lovers were wrong, that character matter in our politicians. Look at the important decisions that now have to be made in order to protect our totally vulnerable nation. Poor Bush has to make decisions that no president ever before has had to make. All because Slick Willy and his socialist dream team decided to gut our intelligence and military services. Demorats sat on their collective liberal asses for eight years with the support of the character doesn't matter American people, believing their NWO commie ideology was the only hope in saving the world. Now comes the reality of the flawed thinking and Americans are asked to to ante up their freedoms,(and as should be expected) the ones that caused the problem bitch the loudest. "Freedom Isn't Free"
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 2:33:58 AM EST
I disagree with Hon. Ron Paul on this particular matter, yet I would not hesitate to vote for him for President if he ever chose to run, simply because I agree with him on every other issue! He's still my hero. The problem is that we have just been whacked up side of the head and I don't just want those who whacked us up side of the head to pay, I want those who merely [b]grinned[/b] upon hearing that we got whacked to pay as well! Eric The(AndYouJustKnowIfSaddamWasn'tBehindTheAtta­ckInSomeManner,HeWasHebephrenicUponHearingThe­News!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 3:02:07 AM EST
Hebephrenic,n, adj, {a state of mind} characterized by emotionless, incongruous, or silly behavior, intellectual deterioration, and hallucinations. (I had to look this up)
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 3:06:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: Remember, President Bush will not be in office forever. History demonstrates that the powers we give the federal government today will remain in place indefinitely. How comfortable are you that future Presidents won't abuse those powers?
View Quote
This is actually my biggest concern. I believe that President Bush is an honorable man, who has demonstrated much more respect for the Constitution and the laws than his predecessor. What happens fifteen years from now, when Chelsea Clinton is elected President? At whom will she aim these laws? Hmmm... how deep can I dig in my backyard?
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 3:34:26 AM EST
If the American People were as wise as they once were, following the eight years of DEMO support of Clinton and his monkeyshines, they would cast that party out of political life in America for good! There shouldn't even [b]be[/b] a DemocRat Party after Sept. 11! They fiddled while our Capitol burned, so to speak, and now they think that more of what they've been proposing all along will be the answer to America's woes! What's a stimulus package for, but to grease the skids for future DemocRat patronage! And who's going to be the first to unionize the 28,000 newest federal employees, give them a union card, a dues 'check off' on their paycheck, and a list of DEMOS to vote for at election time? Eric The(TheDEMOSHaven'tHadAnAnswerToAnyQuestionTh­eRepublic'sBeenAskingForYears!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 4:29:45 AM EST
As I've said many times, most of our new "security" measures remind me of a drunk looking for his car keys. He lost them in the dark alley out behind the bar, but he's looking out front under the street light because the light's better. The gov't is implementing policies that wouldn't have helped, don't help now and never will help. They are most definitly trading off our hard-won freedoms for perceived security.
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 4:57:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2001 4:50:29 AM EST by ErickM]
Originally Posted By ckapsl: ...President Bush is an honorable man, who has demonstrated much more respect for the Constitution and the laws than his predecessor.
View Quote
More respect? or just more respect for the ONE part of it that a lot of you all actually care about?
What happens fifteen years from now, when Chelsea Clinton is elected President? At whom will she aim these laws? Hmmm... how deep can I dig in my backyard?
View Quote
And this fear stems from Bush not being pres forever? simple solution, make him president for life. Like Bush She would aim these laws at whatever chosen group(s) she and the general public doesn't like. If you're trying to get at, that she would use them on "gunowners" I'm about at the point that I'd say, "so be it". Since you all don't seem to care about your guy Bush making and supporting these laws "since they are only for brown people" Reap what your conservative asses sow.
Link Posted: 12/12/2001 5:03:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2001 4:57:08 AM EST by ErickM]
Originally Posted By 111AAAm-O-Tramp: Demorats sat on their collective liberal asses for eight years with the support of the character doesn't matter American people, believing their NWO commie ideology was the only hope in saving the world. Now comes the reality of the flawed thinking and Americans are asked to to ante up their freedoms,(and as should be expected) [i]the ones that caused the problem bitch the loudest.[/i] "Freedom Isn't Free"
View Quote
So bitching about bush's pissing on the constituion makes me and others who do the same, liberals or suspected liberals huh? Lovely.
Top Top