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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 12/10/2001 4:34:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2001 9:57:02 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Man shot while trying to thwart Phoenix robbery (Phoenix-AP) -- A good Samaritan is in critical condition after he tried to intervene in a robbery of a lunch wagon in Phoenix and wound up being shot. Police say two men approached the driver of a Ralph's Snack Bar truck at a stop light at 33rd Avenue and Thomas in an attempt to rob the driver. The driver was beaten and shot in the leg but police say he apparently wasn't seriously hurt. A man walking by _ and apparently armed _ tried to intervene. But police say a third suspect _ the apparent getaway driver _ hit the good Samaritan with his pickup, knocking the man to the ground. Police say the other two suspects then grabbed the man's gun and shot him two or three times in the chest and then fled in the pickup. (Copyright 2001 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
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This guy was just on Ch. 15 news, he came home from the hospital this morning, his interview isn't on the [url]www.phoenix360.com[/url] website yet but it probably will be later tonight. He was trying to help the owner/operator of a roach coach, a elderly gentleman, who was being beaten and robbed by two young men. He drew his handgun, and tried to intervene. He did not know that they had a get away vheicle. When he held the robbers at gunpoint, the get away driver [i]ran over him![/i] While he was lying semiconcious the two robbers came over and took his .45 away from him and proceeded to shoot him [i]4 times in the groin[/i] in a apparent deliberate attempt to immasculate as well as kill him (not in the chest as reported above). They missed his genetals but he had to have nerve and arterial grafts to save his legs. They then shot the truck operator in the chest as he was lying on the ground as a attempt to eliminate witneses. These guys are stil on the loose, these are some BARBARIC mother fuckers.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 4:40:26 PM EDT
Samaritan shot, run over while trying to stop heist Michael Ging/The Arizona Republic Phoenix paramedics tend to Ronald Nichelson, 60, a snack truck driver who was shot in the leg by a robber on Friday. By Ashley Bach The Arizona Republic Dec. 01, 2001 A Phoenix man trying to break up the robbery of a snack truck was critically injured Friday after he was run over by one of the robbers and shot with his own gun, police said. Robert D. Parker, 35, was shot three times in the stomach and once in the leg after he tried to help the driver of a truck who was being robbed in west Phoenix, Phoenix police Sgt. Randy Force said. "It's a strong-arm robbery that went awry," Lt. Jeri Williams said. "Someone tried to come and help out, but it went sideways." Two men approached the Ralph's Snack Bar truck at about 10:50 a.m. while it was stopped at a traffic signal at 33rd Avenue and Thomas Road. They stole a wallet from the driver, Ronald Nichelson, 60, then demanded more money. When Nichelson said the money was in the back, the men pistol-whipped him and shot him in the leg, Force said. Parker, who was waiting in traffic behind the snack truck, saw the commotion and leapt from his car with his gun in hand. He confronted the two men as they were about to leave and fired one shot but missed, Force said. A third robber, stopped behind the snack truck, drove forward and hit Parker, sending him flying, police said. One of the other robbers then walked around the snack truck and shot Parker with the Samaritan's own gun, police said. Parker was in critical condition Friday night at St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center. Nichelson, the driver, was at St. Joseph's with non-life-threatening injuries. Police are searching for the three robbers, who drove away in a small white Toyota or Nissan pickup truck or sport utility vehicle. They are described as being 25 to 30 years old. A female cook who was in the back of the snack truck escaped unharmed. Ray Waggoner was raking leaves a few houses away when he heard the shots. He called police on his cellphone and then rushed over to Parker, who was bleeding from his abdomen. "I looked down and I told him, 'It's going to be OK. You're going to make it.' " Waggoner said. "Then I prayed for him." Ambulances arrived within minutes, but the experience hasn't faded, Waggoner said. "It was really awful," he said. Bertha Cebular, who works nearby, said she was scared to hear the news. "You live with it," she said. "Now I know not to be a good Samaritan."
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 4:58:26 PM EDT
One of my employee's Father was robbed and beaten several months back while operating a roach coach...He's now retired. Too bad there's so many dirt bags roaming the streets...Thank God for the CCW!!!
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 5:09:11 PM EDT
Training failure, I'd say. Too bad- could have been a few less BG's today!
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 5:24:29 PM EDT
Of course you would perform flawlessly under the same circumstances, wouldn't you?
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 5:29:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2001 5:21:50 PM EDT by Admiral_Crunch]
I get this sickening feeling that someone somewhere is going to try and use this as fuel for their campaign to eliminate CCW. [puke]
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 5:40:15 PM EDT
That's a scary scenario. I suppose you could put your back against something solid like the truck and try to cover 180 deg. but that's 20/20 hindsight on my part. Any LEOs out there?
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 5:46:42 PM EDT
Was just checking.......... I guess all these years I had the wrong definition of immasculated. Sure glad I never had to use that in a sentence!
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 7:06:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BYU: Of course you would perform flawlessly under the same circumstances, wouldn't you?
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Does make you wonder how much training this poor soul had, doesn't it? No good deed goes unpunished these days, it seems.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 7:34:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: Training failure, I'd say. Too bad- could have been a few less BG's today!
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just how much training do you do personally (if you're a LEO this doesn't apply of course) for inserting yourself, armed, into a burglary-in-process? no amount of range time or mental preparation is going to prepare the average CCW citizen for this kind of thing. there really isn't, to my knowledge, anything that counts as "training" for said scenario. go easy on the guy. he tried to help. better than standing back and letting it happen.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 8:59:46 PM EDT
I'm sorry for the guy, and his family. I also think carrying a weapon means assuming an awesome responsibility to do as much as possible to know how an when to use it effectively. That's all. I also understand it's pretty easy for any/all of us to sit here and second guess the actions of others. The lesson here for me is train, train, train! Who said, "you can't miss fast enough"?
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 9:04:05 PM EDT
Situational Awareness. But in an intense situation I guess the mind has the want to focus on the problem and pretty much obscures side things. Which could be dangerous. Just remember to assess then act. I guess. Lets hope that both recover fully and they kill the assailants. Benjamin
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 10:03:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2001 9:57:55 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Oh my GOD! I just noticed I wrote emasculate wrong!! Shit, that is what not sleeping for 24 hours will do for you. Edited to say I fixed it.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 10:11:00 PM EDT
The reason I put this up was that this is some scary shit. How could you help the guy and not risk winding up like Mr. Parker? If Parker did what police normally do, cover the guys from the corner between the driver door and body of his car- he'd be dead! The getaway car would have crushed him against his own car. I cant see that he did anything wrong, thats what I find scary.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 10:25:09 PM EDT
A group of us here in Cali just took a class on sunday from the HALO Group. One of the things they emphasized was [i]Situation Assesment[/i]. After shooting at our target we were supposed to check left, check right to see if our "perp" had friends. As it was not something most of us train to do we were often slow to do it, or forgot entirely. The lead instructor, a sheriff deputy / swat team leader would start yelling "assess, assess!" Last year I shot IDPA with a guy who did it after every string. I thought it comical at the time. I don't think so anymore. Now I realize that if one doesn't practice something every time they use their firearm you probably won't do it when crisis time hits.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 10:31:30 PM EDT
What do you do about BEHIND you Path?
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 11:05:54 PM EDT
Parker risked his own life, not for a paycheck or because it was part of his job. That is what a true hero is.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 11:07:26 PM EDT
While I can appreciate the intent of Mr. Parker, I can count about twelve different places where he went wrong. Top 3: 1) CCW DOES NOT make you a law enforcement officer. – DO NOT ACT LIKE A COP. 2) If you have the chance… The phone is always preferable to the gun. – CALL 911 3) There is one and only one reason to pull your weapon. – TO KILL SOMEONE
Link Posted: 12/11/2001 12:30:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Instant_Karma: While I can appreciate the intent of Mr. Parker, I can count about twelve different places where he went wrong. Top 3: 1) CCW DOES NOT make you a law enforcement officer. – DO NOT ACT LIKE A COP. 2) If you have the chance… The phone is always preferable to the gun. – CALL 911 3) There is one and only one reason to pull your weapon. – TO KILL SOMEONE
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He wasn't acting like a COP karma he was helping someone in trouble. Dont you WANT someone to help you when YOU are in trouble? Are you going to tell them "no thats OK I'll wait for a police officer" when they try and help you anyway? Remember, legally a cop can drive right past too and not get in any trouble. [b]The Police are not obligated to protect you[/b] remember? And they arent any good if they arrive after you are dead. BTW I heard that the police response time to this was on the order of 5min- which is pretty good.
Link Posted: 12/11/2001 5:46:01 AM EDT
Ok let’s examine what most probably happened here. 12/01/01 10:17:25 > Ronald Nichelson, comes to a complete stop at a red light 10:17:50 > Dirtbags #1,2,3,4 decide that this is the time and the place to pull a robbery. 10:18:00 > Dirtbags #1,2,3 ‘LEAP’ from their stolen 83 Toyota. #4 remains behind, 10:18:15 > Dirtbags #1,2 run to the drivers door of the food van, while #3 remains at the right rear corner. 10:18:30 > Mr. Parker notices that Dirtbags 1 and 2 have approached the driver of the van and thinks … ----------- > “Are these dirtbags trying to order F’n chili in the middle of the F’n street??” 10:19:00 > Dirtbag #1 shoots Mr. Nichelson in the left leg. ----------- > “Because the fucker didn’t have his money in his wallet.” 10:19:15 > Mr. Parker thinks…. ---------- > “Oh My God!!! An armed robbery!” 10:19:20 > Dirtbags #2 and 3 are in the process of returning to the Toyota. #1 is still working on the victim. ---------- > “Because the fucker didn’t have his money in his wallet.” 10:19:30 > Mr. Parker makes a conscious decision to prevent the dirtbags from doing further harm to the victim. ========================================================================== This is where things begin to go awry ========================================================================== 10:19:32 > Mr. Parker draws his S&W .38 snubbie, removes his seatbelt and opens his door. ---------- > He had to reach past a cell phone to draw his weapon. 10:19:40 > Mr. Parker ‘Leaps’ from his car and sprints to the aid of the victim. 10:19:55 > Mr. Parker orders dirtbag #1 to halt, while brandishing his .38. ---------- > “ DROP YOUR GUN!!!” 10:20:10 > Dirtbag #1 takes 10 seconds to think about it and declines. ========================================================================== I think it’s important to note that Mr. Parker has never attempted to take a 10-meter shot after running 50 meters. Let alone under this kind of stress. – Mr. Parker has also never had to try and take a life. ========================================================================== 10:20:11 > Mr. Parker fires one shot from his .38. Striking the pavement near the victim. ----------- > “It was kinda a warning shot.” 10:20:15 > Mr Parker is the recipient of a Toyota suppository. ========================================================================== At this point things get ugly ========================================================================== . . . . . Had Mr. Parker taken 30 seconds to hit the ‘Emergency’ button on his cell phone, do you think the story would have ended differently? Had Mr. Parker taken the time to use parked vehicles as cover, do you think the story would have ended differently? Had Mr. Parker simply killed dirtbag #1 without warning, do you think the story would have ended differently? A firearm is not a magic wand. And this is all speculation – Based upon how badly things went wrong. (Nomex on)
Link Posted: 12/11/2001 8:51:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Instant_Karma: Ok let’s examine what most probably happened here. Had Mr. Parker simply killed dirtbag #1 without warning, do you think the story would have ended differently? A firearm is not a magic wand.
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Yes. Had Mr. Parker simplykilled perp #1, I'd bet Mr parker would be in jail for murder. Not that it's right, I'd just bet on it. Not a magic wand: Truer words were never spoken. Buying a piano won't make you a musician ...
Link Posted: 12/11/2001 9:37:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Norm_G:
Originally Posted By Instant_Karma: Ok let’s examine what most probably happened here. Had Mr. Parker simply killed dirtbag #1 without warning, do you think the story would have ended differently? A firearm is not a magic wand.
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Yes. Had Mr. Parker simplykilled perp #1, I'd bet Mr parker would be in jail for murder. Not that it's right, I'd just bet on it. Not a magic wand: Truer words were never spoken. Buying a piano won't make you a musician ...
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Let me get this straight… #1 had already shot the barfwagon owner in the leg. For all Mr. “Soon to be street pizza” knows the guy is dead. And you think he would be jailed for shooting the guy who did it?? Just because he didn’t say ‘HALT!!’ or ‘Drop that gun!!!’ ROTFLMMFAO!!! Dude, you need to take a class in "lethal force and the law 101"
Link Posted: 12/11/2001 9:48:05 AM EDT
Note: this happened in AZ, NOT NY, where you have a “Duty to retreat.” before using lethal force.
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