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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 11/15/2001 12:28:51 PM EDT
It seems like everytime I read an article and the .30-30 is mentioned it is always in a negative way. Why is this? After using my fathers Marlin 336 in .30-30 I have a good impression of it. It seems to be a good cartridege with moderate power and very manageable recoil. Also looking at the ballistics is seems to be an ideal deer cartridge out to 200 yards. Why don't others like the .30-30 like I do?
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 12:31:51 PM EDT
Because a lot of the cave man type have the notion that bigger is always better. Don't worry many deer have been taken at relatively close range, in woods, using the 30-30.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 12:33:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ECS: Because a lot of the cave man type have the notion that bigger is always better. Don't worry many deer have been taken at relatively close range, in woods, using the 30-30.
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There have been a ton of deer taken by the old 30-30. Including mine when I was younger.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 12:35:52 PM EDT
because they'd need an 80" barrel and tube to keep the number of cartridges necessary to make a hit.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 12:37:38 PM EDT
The .30/30 is a great cartridge. I have my friends Marlin 336 right now, put a scope on it and sighted it in for him, so when he gets back from school he can hit the stand. The ammo is relatively inexpensive and it is more than adequate for most deer hunting.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 12:41:17 PM EDT
Why does everyone put down the .30-30?
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Eventually, we must put down every weapon we posses... Imaging eating, showering or even trying to shave with a rifle in your hands, not to mention having sex! [:D]
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 12:45:35 PM EDT
Many people on this board seem to talk about deer hunting with a .223 yet many say .30-30 isn;t enough gun. I think something is wrong here.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 12:57:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CanadianGunNut: Many people on this board seem to talk about deer hunting with a .223 yet many say .30-30 isn;t enough gun. I think something is wrong here.
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I caught that too. I am still a big fan of my Winchester '94 30-30 for hunting deer in the brush. It's lightweight, short, and hardly any recoil. The flat nose bullet doesn't seem to mind the little twigs and crap that always seem to get in the way. I've taken plenty of deer with mine (and one duck - oops [:D]). That and I've NEVER had a lever action jam. Not gonna hear me knocking it. Sure there are better, more powerful and newer cartridges out there, but the 30-30 has gotten the job done in the brush for over a hundred years.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 12:57:48 PM EDT
It is certainly a lethal cartridge. It has a number of drawbacks though: Relatively big case: the power of a 7.62x39 with the same sized case as a 7.62x51 (308). Bad trajectory: again, about the same as the 7.62x39. This is going to limit your range to maybe 2/3 of what you get with more "modern" cartridges like the 30-06. Found mostly in lever actions: while many like them for nostalgic reasons, they have no advantage over a bolt action. The weights are the same (given same barrel length), but the bolt gun has the same rate of fire in skilled hands, is more accurate, and is easier to customize. Some lever actions stocks are also not really well designed to control recoil. Levers are also difficult to load, but you get pretty good capacity. 30-30s will do the job at moderate ranges, but there is really not anything they can do better than a lighweight bolt action, and the bolt action will be able to shoot farther.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 1:06:27 PM EDT
I just realized that the lever action seemed so nice to me because I am left handed. A right handed bolt gun is very awkward for me to use. And I can't always get the gun I want in left handed.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 1:06:37 PM EDT
You'll never hear me dogging the old standby deer cartridge and rifle. A Marlin 336 or Win 94 was a staple in my grandfather's gun rack during deer season. I shot my 2nd buck with a 30-30 at about 70 yards with open sights, rested aim. Hit the deer in the shoulder, and it's heart and lots of blood came out of the exit wound. Animal died nearly instantly. It's a great weapon for thick woods deer hunting in Texas where the shots aren't out at 150 plus yardage. My 1/50 of a dollar [^]
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 1:24:34 PM EDT
I still use my old Win 94 to deer hunt (still saving my money for an AR-10). Have used it for over 20 years with absolutely NO problems. Had a Recoil pad added to the Stock to increase sight distance (stock too short/rear sight too close for me) and because after a day at the range it would leave one hell of a bruise on your shoulder. Besides in MO it's illegal to hunt deer with a .223 and with all these hills and brush you don't really need a range over 100-150 yds.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 1:29:48 PM EDT
my opinion has nothing to do with the hunting ability of the 30WCF it does that job well . It has to do with collectibility. lever guns in 30WCF are too damm common just about everybody has one sitting in the closet. When it comes to lever guns excluding custom options like deluxe wood,take down or double set triggers its the caliber that makes or breaks value and collectability. I've passed up many an old minty lever action simply because is was 30 WCF. but show me a nice colt-burges in 44WCF or a good looking Winchester model 92 in 38WCF and ill be breaking open the piggy bank in a hurry
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 1:50:20 PM EDT
There is certainly nothing wrong with the 30-30 Win if you respect is limitations. I killed my first deer with a Marlin 336 in 30-30. A little four pointer somehow snuck almost under my stand when I was 14. Two quick shots and he was mine. The second shot was probably not needed. I continued to use the Marlin until I saw a very large buck with a great rack at around 250 yard away. Now I was frustrated. I then graduated to a scoped bolt action Rem 700 in .270Win. I then proceeded to kill several more deer with the .270. The .270 did not kill the deer any "better", but it certainly gave me more range.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 2:10:30 PM EDT
There are a lot better cartridges out there that out perform and are better suited, than the old 30.30. A 7mm-08 has about the same recoil and twice the range. 200 yards is a stretch for that 30.30. Yea I know, 95% of all white tails are taken at less than 75 yards. I was hunting in the UP in Menominee County and saw a group of white tails coming out of a swamp at dusk. I found a tree for a rest and lined up the cross hairs. I touched one off at the back deer that had some kind of head gear. Nothing. I racked another in. BANG. Nothing. Another. Same results. I held my head up over the scope and let another one fly. It hit the dirt about 20 yards in front of the deer. I used Kentucky elevation and held about 2 feet over his back. BANG. Gut shot. Haven't been hunting with that 30.30 since. Distance paced off was about 225 yards and that 30.30 was sighted in at 100.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 2:21:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2001 2:16:26 PM EDT by Imbroglio]
The first time I ever shot a Win 94 I was hitting everything I was aiming at out to 100 yards using iron sights. Better to hit with a 30/30 than miss with a .50bmg, If I weren't so damn poor I would own 3 guns right now.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 2:27:03 PM EDT
It seems to be a good cartridege with moderate power and very manageable recoil.
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U said it yourself, that american political vulgarity... MODERATE. I just prefer something that a> has a lot more kick, and b> a better range. What good is a 30 caliber bullet without lots and lots of kinetic energy?
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 2:37:17 PM EDT
I love my 94AE and my wife has a Marlin 336. both shoot fine. variety is the spice of life.... some people want it all in one gun... some of us like many different ones. No_Expert
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 2:47:26 PM EDT
Since we're on the subject. do any of the other calibers available (.357, .44, .45 colt, etc) do any better for range yet stay in the same area when it comes to recoil? Knock down power?
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 3:04:45 PM EDT
The .30-30 will always have it's detractors for the simple reason that it is not the .300 Weatherby magnum. These same types will always choose the .220 Swift in a situation where a .22 Hornet would do perfectly well.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 3:12:05 PM EDT
My dad will only use a 30-30 while deer hunting. He says that is what he started hunting with and will continue to use...I also must say that my dad always gets his limit first when we are hunting. He has an old Marlin and a Winchester Lever Action 30-30. The Marlin has a scope while the Winchester has open sights...it depends on were he is hunting on what rifle he will use. I like the 30-30, but prefer my 30-06. just me 2 cents medcop
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 3:20:11 PM EDT
because it's a pussy round. I prefer 8mm myself.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 3:25:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 3:48:02 PM EDT
Besides in MO it's illegal to hunt deer with a .223 and with all these hills and brush you don't really need a range over 100-150 yds.
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------------------------------------ I'm pretty sure your mistaken about the .223 being illegal to hunt with in MO. You can even hunt deer with handgun rounds here. From what I understand, as long as it's a centerfire round, it's legal to hunt with. I've know of at least three people who've taken deer with .223, and as far as I know all were obeying the law. As far as the 30-30, I think it's a great round. But then, I think saddle guns are kind of cool. It's also been compared to the 7.62X39. For a long time, all I hunted deer with was my MAK-90. Always put them down with one shot. Unless you're in northern MO, there just aren't many places that you'll have a shot over 100 yards. As a matter of fact, I've NEVER shot a deer over 100 yards.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 4:27:56 PM EDT
I still have my Marlin 30-30, It always goes bang when I pull the trigger but it sucks having to use flat nosed bullets and it has the worst kick of anything I own. But I'll never sell it! "What is Right shall always Triumph"
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 5:51:07 PM EDT
First deer I ever got in my (iron) sights, I killed with a 30-30. At a substantial distance too. Nothing wrong with 'em if you're after food.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 6:33:22 PM EDT
I like the medium powered .30 calibers. Simply know the weapon's limitations and work within them. Our old .30-30 was a sweet Marlin with a half-tube.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 6:50:38 PM EDT
The 30-30 is a lot better choice for hunting deer legally in Colorado than the AR-15. .243 is the minimum calibre. Plus for people on a budget, it is a great choice. My only beef with the lever action is unloading it, and that is really only a problem with the tubular ones.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 7:26:24 PM EDT
I love My marlin 336 but mine is a .35 rem. Was my dads first rifle, was my first rifle, will be my sons first rifle.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 7:36:34 PM EDT
Hell, I love lever guns. They'll take a royal beating, and keep going. A perfect "truck" rifle, and enjoyable as hell to shoot. I, for one, can't stand to see a lever gun with a scope mounted. To me, it just ruins the look and feel.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 7:46:38 PM EDT
My only problem is the ammo cost. With the price of surplus or Wolf ammo in military calibers hovering at around 10 cents a round, it's hard to get excited about paying $13.00 for a 20-pack of 30-30! Kind of puts the skids on shooting just for fun... The prices of the Marlin and Winchester leverguns are very attractive, but by the time you shoot 1000 rounds of 30-30 over a few year's time, you've spent enough in extra ammo costs to pay for a pretty nice "black rifle".
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 8:26:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle: Simply because it's not the latest greatest high-teh whiz bang doodad on the block. 30-30 just doesn't have any of that bling-bling crap going for it. Too bad too, because it will just plain get the job done. No muss no fuss.
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Could not have explained it any better, at least for hunting in many eastern/southern environments. I often hear many "hunters" here in Ala. with their 7mm mag, 300 win mag, etc.etc. shoot 150 lb. bucks that run after being hit solid several hundred yards, often lost and never to be found. At ranges under 200 yards the high tech high velocity heavy bullets go straight through and much of the cartridge's energy is simply wasted. Many times a 30-30 will take a large buck with the bullet mushrooming well, and then stopping just short of penetrating the entire animal, the energy of the bullet has been transfered to the game, not exited and stuck in a tree 20 yard past. Out west or even hunting open areas here a 30-30 just wont get it, but in the woods its great. Shot placement is still the most deciding factor. BTW if you dont beleive the energy transfer to the target theory think about this: Why does a .357 mag actually have better stopping power results than a .44 mag? The .357 often will not penetrate a human body completely like a .44 mag does. (Oh yeah that's another argument. I know everyone here doesnt trust Evan Marshall.)
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 9:17:18 PM EDT
I couldn't tell ya! Right now I've got two AR's to choose from when going to the range but I still take out my Marlin 336CS just as often as either of them. It's a great rifle and still fun to shoot. The Marlin was actually the first real firearm I bought (actually my parents bought) way back when I was all of 16 years old. hsld.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 9:22:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rg00red: I was at a rifle range one day zeroing my deer rifle, a Winchester M70 in .30-06. The 3 hillbillies at the next bench all had high-speed low-drag magnums, one had the favorite of all hillbillies, the 7mm Remington Mag.
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You [i]were[/i] waiting for the DEFENDER to arrive, correct? I am here. " Do what you will, just don't mistake a CityBoy with a Remington 700 in [b]"7mm"[/b] for a Hillbilly with anything, including a Winchester M70 in .30-06..." [flame] [;)] I only say that because I really pissed off a good buddy who was trying to talk me into the M70/.30-06 for my first rifle---I found the Remington 700 in 7mm Rem.Mag. hanging on the wall at Big5 in all its matte black glory with everything I wanted in a rifle at the time, including the name [b][green][i]Remington[/i][/green][/b]. The bbl. was stamped 7mm and I put money down right there. I've never regretted it. I applaud your choice in the M70. I still want one, only in 6.5x55 Swedish. A Featherweight. Nice little rifle. Topically oriented, I'll take my .30-30 in a Marlin format, thank you very much!
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 9:23:00 PM EDT
I was the gun shop today and on display was a metal plate that had been shot at with various rounds. The .223, .308, etc. punched right through. But, the .30-30 barely dented it. I guess a .30-30 might be good on animals, but it has nowhere near the penetrating power of a .223.
Link Posted: 11/15/2001 11:48:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By btip: BTW if you dont beleive the energy transfer to the target theory think about this: Why does a .357 mag actually have better stopping power results than a .44 mag? The .357 often will not penetrate a human body completely like a .44 mag does. (Oh yeah that's another argument. I know everyone here doesnt trust Evan Marshall.)
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I don't buy either the energy dump theory or any of Evan Marshall's stuff. However, the reason for the better performance of the .357 in Marshall's data is most likely due to better shot placement--ignoring the other problems with his data, of course.
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 12:12:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By seamusmcoi:
I'm pretty sure your mistaken about the .223 being illegal to hunt with in MO. You can even hunt deer with handgun rounds here. From what I understand, as long as it's a centerfire round, it's legal to hunt with.
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You sir, are CorrectAmundo! Centerfire is the only requirement. No restrictions on Caliber. NOW, if we could only get the state Gov. to pass the right to carry this might not be a bad place to live! PS. put your damn pants on!
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 1:04:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By seamusmcoi:
Besides in MO it's illegal to hunt deer with a .223 and with all these hills and brush you don't really need a range over 100-150 yds.
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------------------------------------ I'm pretty sure your mistaken about the .223 being illegal to hunt with in MO. You can even hunt deer with handgun rounds here. From what I understand, as long as it's a centerfire round, it's legal to hunt with. I've know of at least three people who've taken deer with .223, and as far as I know all were obeying the law.
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seamusmcoi you are correct...In Missouri you CAN hunt deer with [u]any centerfire round[/u]. I take my .45 with me every year in hopes of having a shot close enough. You can also hunt deer with a shotgun in Missouri...slug only..no buckshot. medcop
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 5:16:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2001 5:23:46 AM EDT by madmortigan]
Originally Posted By seamusmcoi:
Besides in MO it's illegal to hunt deer with a .223 and with all these hills and brush you don't really need a range over 100-150 yds.
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------------------------------------ I'm pretty sure your mistaken about the .223 being illegal to hunt with in MO. You can even hunt deer with handgun rounds here. From what I understand, as long as it's a centerfire round, it's legal to hunt with. I've know of at least three people who've taken deer with .223, and as far as I know all were obeying the law. As far as the 30-30, I think it's a great round. But then, I think saddle guns are kind of cool. It's also been compared to the 7.62X39. For a long time, all I hunted deer with was my MAK-90. Always put them down with one shot. Unless you're in northern MO, there just aren't many places that you'll have a shot over 100 yards. As a matter of fact, I've NEVER shot a deer over 100 yards.
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I haven't check the rules on caliber size in the last 10 years or so, but it used to be illegal to hunt in MO with anything smaller than a .25 and yes I have hunted with a shotgun w/slugs and a .401 Mag pistol.
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 6:55:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rg00red: One of them went on to say that with his (insert big super-fast magnum cartridge here) he could hold steady out to 750 yards and not have to worry about drop.
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One of my buddies bought a 300 RUM, and he was giving me this line about how much farther it could shoot than my '06 (M70 too). There was talk of 600 yard shots without holdover and such nonsense. We got out the chronograph and the ballistics program, and his point blank range was actually only 15% more than mine. In fact, he was only getting 3% more than my 300 Win Mag (which I never hunt with, because my '06 has always been enough). And I do not pay $2 a shell for ammo, or wince on every shot at the range either. I have nothing against magnums, but they really do not add much in the way of performance. The new supermagnums are ludicrous. Take a look at the trajectory of a factory 7Mag round versus the 270; they are very similar. The 30/30 has all but disapeared as a hunting arm in my area, as you have to be ready for the longer shot. But most guys still have a couple of them in the coat closet.
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 7:49:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raid: because it's a pussy round. I prefer 8mm myself.
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Not when you compare factory ammo. Using a 170gr bullet, the 30/30 is only 160fps slower at the muzzle. That's about the difference between the .308 and 30/06. Trajectory on the 2 is identical out to 300yds. As far as cost and performance, you can do much better reloading for the 30/30. Sight your rifle in for 1.5" high at 100yds, your POI will be good for deer out to 200yds (dropping only about 4" at that distance). Beyond that, it does drop considerably. It's a good little cartridge. I have a Winchester 94 given to me at my wedding by my groomsmen. That rifle will be around for a long time...
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 7:59:49 AM EDT
I got into the .30-30 by accident. I came accross a dingbat who wanted to sell a Win. 94 for dirt cheap. After the transaction had taken place and I had already purchased reloading dies, I find out that this gun was not this dingbat's to sell. Got my money back from the dingbat and returned the gun to rightful owner. But, I couldn't return the reloading dies. So I was stuck with dies and components for .30-30! SOOOO I sent in my NEF Handi Rifle and had it fit with a .30-30 barrel. While not a powerhouse, it is adequate for most hunting in North America. It's a easy caliber to reload and cases last a LONG LONG TIME! I use both jacketed and lead bullets in mine. Shoots both well. I like the lead for reactive target plinking. FUN AND CHEAP TO RELOAD! Accuracy is pretty good both in my Handi and my Dad's Marlin 336. Recoil and muzzle blast are light. Heck, it's just a fun caliber! I've got high-speed low-drag stuff, but I still ENJOY my .30-30! DaMan
Link Posted: 11/16/2001 12:17:32 PM EDT
All centerfire RIFLE cartridges are legal (AFAIK), but pistol cartridges are limited to something like .357 and up (once again, just what I remember). As stated before, around here (SW MO) one rarely has a shot over 100 yds due to the brush and hills and I've found that my open sight 7.62x39 is a great 'brush gun', whereas I'd choose my .308 for more open areas (northern MO).
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