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2/23/2017 5:55:53 PM
Posted: 10/20/2001 12:34:51 PM EST
Now before you guys get your panties in a wad, I'm not questioning the performance of the Rangers! They did fine! I'm just puzzled why they risked so much on this particular target? Ideas? DaMan
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 12:36:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 12:42:26 PM EST
Testing, probing defenses?
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 12:47:36 PM EST
There is an article listed on lucianne.com that says the ragheads captured 11 rangers. Hear anthing about that? Do you believe it?
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 12:58:20 PM EST
I think I've figured out why they hit this target ...... and it's a friggin' brilliant plan! DaMan
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 1:02:49 PM EST
Sending a message: We don't need to capture your worthless land, but we will harrass and kill you with a guerilla war like you did to the Russians. Sleep with one eye open.
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 1:24:03 PM EST
I haven't heard squat about 11 captured Rangers. I think this is probably BS! DaMan
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 1:31:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2001 2:29:48 PM EST by RikWriter]
The official word is it was an intelligence gathering mission, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was to take prisoners for interrogation. That General Dyer (I think his name is) just about let it slip that they took prisoners. edited to correct my brain-fart misspelling of "general"
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 1:41:16 PM EST
Uh, Rik.... yes! It was a collection raid (POW and documents)! I'm glad to see you recognize that! But, it was more!!!!! Much more! DaMan
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 1:42:41 PM EST
There is an article listed on lucianne.com that says the ragheads captured 11 rangers
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They intentionaly stayed behind for tea with Mullah Mohammad Omar. Seriously though the only reports I have heard are 2 got injured parachuting in. All got out OK. 2 killed by crash in Pakistan. Considering the Taliban have threatend to drag captured Americans through the streets, and there need to show some sign of success we would of heard something by now.
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 3:25:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By CPL_Punishment: Who cares, send the Army back in and f*ck them up some more.
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THATS RIGHT, LETS GO GET SOME MORE RAG!
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 3:30:00 PM EST
Cause one of their missions is raid, and they raided. The only two dead were from copter crashses (note see Team Spirit and anything the army does at night for real copter dead). I call that good training. In fact, any killing is good training. We should have been doing it 4 years ago.
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 3:48:53 PM EST
I dont think guessing a mission from what we get from the media is worth the time. I dont know if JSOC is pulling their strings but we can only hope our boys are not being misused. Airports are Rangers` specialty
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 4:16:44 PM EST
One reason for the raid might be eye candy for the media and general public. We won't see the REAL spec-ops raids, so they did this one for TV-time?
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 5:24:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By RikWriter: One reason for the raid might be eye candy for the media and general public. We won't see the REAL spec-ops raids, so they did this one for TV-time?
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You know I wouldnt put it past them. But since we also needed a probe to find out if they are still the mujahadeen we knew from 12 years ago, and some prisoners for info, all three can be accomidated at the same time.
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 5:30:41 PM EST
They should have kept the airfield and moved in 2 squadrons of A-10s to operate out of it. Maybe some apaches too. Let them try and take it back!!
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 5:40:40 PM EST
But, it was more!!!!! Much more!
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So much more that you can't share it with us? [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 5:40:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By TRW: They should have kept the airfield and moved in 2 squadrons of A-10s to operate out of it. Maybe some apaches too. Let them try and take it back!!
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You know, I can only guess that that airfield wasnt in good enough shape. Perhaps it was the one they showed on the news from a few days ago that had all then neatly planted craters at every intersection?
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 6:07:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Originally Posted By RikWriter: One reason for the raid might be eye candy for the media and general public. We won't see the REAL spec-ops raids, so they did this one for TV-time?
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You know I wouldnt put it past them. But since we also needed a probe to find out if they are still the mujahadeen we knew from 12 years ago, and some prisoners for info, all three can be accomidated at the same time.
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The "Northern Alliance" is MUJAHADEEN (just not Pushtun)! The warlords that controlled the country of Afganistan before the Taliban took control (supported by the US) were MUJAHADEEN! Just ponder THAT for a second or two! DaMan
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 8:19:39 PM EST
Don't you guys think it is funny that there was no small arms fire comming from the Airfield and towards the dollar thirties, and that the Airborne was dropped within .5 clicks of the Airfield itself???? I don't think anyone was there. Ben
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 8:25:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By DaMan:
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Originally Posted By RikWriter: One reason for the raid might be eye candy for the media and general public. We won't see the REAL spec-ops raids, so they did this one for TV-time?
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You know I wouldnt put it past them. But since we also needed a probe to find out if they are still the mujahadeen we knew from 12 years ago, and some prisoners for info, all three can be accomidated at the same time.
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The "Northern Alliance" is MUJAHADEEN (just not Pushtun)! The warlords that controlled the country of Afganistan before the Taliban took control (supported by the US) were MUJAHADEEN! Just ponder THAT for a second or two! DaMan
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I dont think you understand. They have been fighting each other for the last 12 years in a country that has more land mines scattered about than any place else in the world. As a result, how many veterans of the war against the Soviets are still alive? How many are just teenagers with guns, little more than rural versions of street gangs?
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 8:38:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: Don't you guys think it is funny that there was no small arms fire comming from the Airfield and towards the dollar thirties, and that the Airborne was dropped within .5 clicks of the Airfield itself???? I don't think anyone was there. Ben
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Well they have admitted that there weren't many who "stayed" at any rate. But as to the distance from the target its about the same as when they dropped at Torrijos/Tacloban and Rio Hato in Panama.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 9:05:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 9:08:27 PM EST
I agree with Malpaso. It sends a message that we can come and go as we wish. This unnerves the Taliban. More importantly, it shows that the Taliban is not in control (and is the wrong side to be on).
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 9:11:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2001 9:08:42 PM EST by DaMan]
ArmdLbrl, it's YOU who doesn't understand! The "Northern Alliance" are Mujahadeen! Just different "tribes"! DaMan
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 9:36:30 PM EST
There are a few interesting things they could have done in addition to the document and prisoner capture. If you have a devious enough mind you can make a few guesses. If nothing else it will help the Rangers get settled down and used to working under hostile fire.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 9:42:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By DaMan: ArmdLbrl, it's YOU who doesn't understand! The "Northern Alliance" are Mujahadeen! Just different "tribes"! DaMan
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I am sorry but I dont get the point that you were trying to make. Yes, 12 years ago they were all united fighting the Soviets, and we in the west called them all mujahadeen. What is the point you are trying to get across. What I was wondering was how many are left who understand how to fight against a sophisticated enemy, and are indured to being bombed and shelled constantly. Divided as they are and worn down by fighting each other, they might no longer be as good as the men who fought against the Soviets in the 80's?
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 10:14:07 PM EST
Stupid thought: I wonder if the rangers brought back the parachutes they used. If they did they probably knew that it wasn't going to be that bad. Cause it takes time to put a chute away in a kit bag after a jump. If they didn't they wasted a alot of money on a media op. If I remember correctly a main parachute (T-10) cost about $1000, and a reserve about $800. So 100 rangers = about 180,000 dollars in parachutes. My guess is that they brought back the chutes cause they knew shit wasn't going to happen.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 10:27:05 PM EST
It was worth it just to see our guys bailing out of a perfectly good airplane with combat loads. [50]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 4:57:10 AM EST
The "Northern Alliance" are Mujahadeen!
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[b]All[/b] Islamic fighters in a jihad, whether in Chechnya, Kashmir, or elsewhere, refer to themselves as "mujahedeen". It doesn't have anything to do with ethnicity, nor is it a term specific to the guerrilla war against the Soviets in Afghanistan.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:40:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By DaMan: Now before you guys get your panties in a wad, I'm not questioning the performance of the Rangers! They did fine! I'm just puzzled why they risked so much on this particular target? Ideas? DaMan
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I think it was cover for Delta operation elsewhere and perhaps a probing mission. Steve
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 6:07:56 AM EST
They will need an Airfield within Afghanistan to take some pressure off of Pakistan. Plus its closer. I sure as hell wouldn't set up a base in Kabul. I think the target is very reasonable. I was only saying that it seemed it was Abandoned. You notice that their Airport seemed intact. Yes , this is going to be the American Base in Afghanistan. Flat Land , Open Country. Set up a defense perimeter at 3 miles, Deliver a Heavy Tank division and you could stage out of there forever. Benjamin
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 6:12:49 AM EST
I can say one thing, this mission is going to be a bitch. They are going to have to Kill every Afghani between 14 and 69 years old. And they are going to have to do it within 2 years. That is the only way they are going to win. Benjamin
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 6:22:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: I can say one thing, this mission is going to be a bitch. They are going to have to Kill every Afghani between 14 and 69 years old. And they are going to have to do it within 2 years. That is the only way they are going to win.
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Even the Northern Alliance guys? Even the refugees?
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 6:30:24 AM EST
I'm just a silly academic with no military experience, but I know what I would do... This attack seems to have alot going for it. It gives the public reassurance, it appears to be great training, it sends a message to the Taliban, it provides great cover and distraction for covert ops.,it gets good ground perspective, it allows for rendezvous with friendly natives, and it could mask the extraction of covert op units previously on the ground(how else would you get them out in a semi-urban setting?). BUT, If I were making decisions, I would be installing every manner of ultra 007 surveillance devices. Electronic lookers, listeners, smellers, feelers, you name it.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 6:41:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By Renamed:
The "Northern Alliance" are Mujahadeen!
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[b]All[/b] Islamic fighters in a jihad, whether in Chechnya, Kashmir, or elsewhere, refer to themselves as "mujahedeen". It doesn't have anything to do with ethnicity, nor is it a term specific to the guerrilla war against the Soviets in Afghanistan.
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Thank-you, Renamed! ArmbLbrl seems to have trouble understanding this concept. If we were able to replace the Taliban with the Northern Alliance tomorrow, we would just be replacing one barbaric group of Islamic fundamentalists with another. DaMan
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 6:51:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By ptfreak: Stupid thought: I wonder if the rangers brought back the parachutes they used. If they did they probably knew that it wasn't going to be that bad. Cause it takes time to put a chute away in a kit bag after a jump. If they didn't they wasted a alot of money on a media op. If I remember correctly a main parachute (T-10) cost about $1000, and a reserve about $800. So 100 rangers = about 180,000 dollars in parachutes. My guess is that they brought back the chutes cause they knew shit wasn't going to happen.
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I don think they used T10`s. I mighta been a static jump, but I doubt it. If resistance is encountered they cut em quick and run. chutes will be collected if for no other reason than to make runways serviceable.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 6:09:05 PM EST
It definitly was a static line jump, if what they showed on the video was the actual jump. They had round canopys in the video. I'm guessing they used the T-10s instead of a MC1 seris chute cause it was a mass tactical jump.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 6:38:20 PM EST
Who cares... If the Rangers killed (reported 20-25) some of those scumbags, it was worth it.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 6:55:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Originally Posted By TRW: They should have kept the airfield and moved in 2 squadrons of A-10s to operate out of it. Maybe some apaches too. Let them try and take it back!!
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You know, I can only guess that that airfield wasnt in good enough shape. Perhaps it was the one they showed on the news from a few days ago that had all then neatly planted craters at every intersection?
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Maybe, but I'll bet a Red Horse unit could have had that runway operational in 6 hours.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 7:00:55 PM EST
I knew I shouldn't have used the word Afghani's but the point I think still stands. Talibuns or whatever. They need to come up with a cool way to get inside those caves. That will reap immediate rewards. This is going to be interesting. Something someone said brought up a good point. Cover op for the real deal somewhere else. A part of me thinks Bin Laden is in Iraq. I don't know why, I have no reason whatsoever for the assertion. But one thing I guessed would happen has happened. Russia has dropped its complaints about Nato expansion. Ben
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:04:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 8:09:16 PM EST by ArmdLbrl]
Originally Posted By Renamed:
The "Northern Alliance" are Mujahadeen!
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[b]All[/b] Islamic fighters in a jihad, whether in Chechnya, Kashmir, or elsewhere, refer to themselves as "mujahedeen". It doesn't have anything to do with ethnicity, nor is it a term specific to the guerrilla war against the Soviets in Afghanistan.
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True, but what does that have to do with my point? Does this make it better: But since we also needed a probe to find out if they are still [as good as] the mujahadeen we knew from 12 years ago [in the jihad against the Soviets] And it seems so far the Taliban mujahadeen are NOT up to the standard of those that fought the Russians. Do the Northern Alliance consider themselves to be on a Jihad against the Taliban?
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