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Posted: 10/9/2001 3:13:18 PM EST
Whats the going price for a good m1a rifle? What do you look for in such a gun? Where can you get one for a good price? The new springfields seem a bit expensive, are there any cheaper alternitives. Also is there any difference between m14's and m1a's ? thanks again
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 3:18:19 PM EST
M14=Semi/Full Auto/military designation M1A=Semi Auto/civilian designation Springfields prices are about right, cheapest I have found them were around $1200 for the standard model
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 3:38:15 PM EST
Also, the M1A's don't have the selector switch and cut-out in the stock. Kinda make them look like they're missing something. But I still love 'em.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 3:47:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 3:57:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By sgtar15: Springfields prices are about right, cheapest I have found them were around $1200 for the standard model
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I guess you didn't catch the pre-ban SuperMatch for $1350 on the exchange board, I did[;)]
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 4:04:01 PM EST
next question, whats the difference between the m1a and the m1 garand? thanks again
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 4:04:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 4:00:59 PM EST by Derek45]
It's a wonderfull rifle, one of my favorites. Get a Springfield Armory. Rugged, reliable even when dirty, accurate, powerfull. I love mine. I've got a friend who has a Dept issue M14, it's a handfull on fullauto, fun ! This is my standard SpringfieldArmory,with a $35 USGI walnut stock from Freds. [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/027/MS/uZ/wE/v780970.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 4:04:16 PM EST
To add to the above, the term "M1A" is from the private firm Springfield Armory. Others have also made M-14 clones, using different names. I believe that Springfield Armory M1As have cast steel receivers. Original M14s have forged steel receivers. Some companies have made civilian legal forged steel M14 clone receivers, but they were [i]expensive[/i]. The cheap Chinese M14 clones were generally considered junk, but some experts felt that their receivers were quite good. Better than M1As, according to Fulton Armory. The rifle would have to be rebuilt, with lots of parts replaced. It is possible that Fulton only had good things to say about [i]some[/i] Chinese M14 clones, not all of them. If you decide to persue this route, check with Fulton or some other expert before going ahead . . .
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 4:10:18 PM EST
Actually M1A is a registered trade mark of Springfield Armory. M14 was the military designation of the gun manufactured for USGI, and it had a selector switch for full auto. However Polytech, Norinco, Smith Enterprises, MKS, Enterprise Arms, and several other make semi auto M14 style weapons. I built a Enterprise Arms Semi M14 using H&R GI parts. Gun works great, I also have a preban M1A and a Polytech Chicom too. I haven't shot the Polytech much because of all stories you hear about the inferior parts. Armscorp also made M14 type rifles. The best bet if you don't want cast parts M14, you might want to buy a billet reciever from MKS, Enterprise Arms or maybe try to find a Smith Receiver, and buy your parts from DCM and have some smith build up your USGI/billet rcvr. gun. Jim
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 4:11:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By big_guy: next question, whats the difference between the m1a and the m1 garand? thanks again
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The M14 is basically a "product improved" M1 Garand. The main differences is that the Garand uses an 8 shot en-bloc clip, while the '14 uses a 20 round detachable magazine. The '14 has a shorter gas system. The '14 uses 7.62 NATO ammo (essentially, .308 Win), while most Garands are in .30-06. There are some other more minor differences. Some have questioned some of the weight reduction that went into the '14 receiver, but to my knowledge there are no 'incidents' that make this a 'concrete' issue. Check out Fulton Armory for some of their Garand/M1A info: [url]http://www.fultonarmory.com/[/url]
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 4:17:13 PM EST
The M1A was built after(and somewhat based on) the M1 Garand), the above pics are of M1A rifles. The M1 Garand was the main battle rifle of the US in WWii and later, these are the rifles that you sasw in war movies like "Saving Private Ryan". Also, the Garand was semi-auto only and shoot the 30-06 cartridge, while the M1A shoots the .308 cartridge (I think I got that right).
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 4:17:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By Derek45: It's a wonderfull rifle, one of my favorites. Get a Springfield Armory. Rugged, reliable even when dirty, accurate, powerfull. I love mine. I've got a friend who has a Dept issue M14, it's a handfull on fullauto, fun ! This is my standard SpringfieldArmory,with a $35 USGI walnut stock from Freds. [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/027/MS/uZ/wE/v780970.jpg[/img]
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Looks like the selector and connector rod are welded up......
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 4:24:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 4:20:05 PM EST by cpermd]
A welded receiver by MKS or Hahn is pretty damn good.I would trust them anytime. The Chinese receivers were made by Polytech and Norinco and both are better than anything available in the US right now.The barrels have also been OK from them.I replace the bolts in them automatically and check headspace every 400-500 rds.Haven't had one go out yet. There are many rumors about the Chinese receivers but try and find someone who has actually seen a problem with their own eyes. I have 10 M14 type rifles in my safes and am looking for another ChiCom receiver to build the next one for my nephew. email for any ?? cpermd
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 4:31:07 PM EST
so I guess spending the $1200 on the springfield is the best route to go. Where do you all find good 20rd mags for the m1 for a reasonable price? I guess I will have to work some overtime for this one. What would a good used m1a cost? thanks once more
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 4:44:12 PM EST
big guy, go to your local bookstore and find a magazine called [b]Shotguns News[/b] or try [url]www.shotgunsnews.com[/url]. It has lots of advertisers but look for a place called [b]"Fred's[/b]. Fred's is a M1A guru and has everything you could ever need. Good luck
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:26:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 5:37:57 PM EST by Smeghead]
Okay, now I get it. There's a dummy selector an piece of connector rod stuck into the stock.......i thought i didn't catch the rest of the connector rod. wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:56:09 PM EST
If you look around hard, you can find a NIB Springfield standard grade for about a grand. Stay away from the Polytechs unless you want to pay for a complete rebuild. Armscorp guns can be good, Entreprise has had heat-treating problems. Good luck finding a Smith receiver. For the money, I'd stay with the Springfield standard grade.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:59:25 PM EST
the best deal is probably thasprigfeild match grade m1a. it would be much more for a rifle of same magnitude done aftermarket. it comes with walnut stock , stainless barrel, and match grade trigger group. i myself can get one for about 1400. good luck
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 6:28:48 PM EST
Never heard that Enterprise Arms had heat treatment problems, only that some of the receivers were out of spec. They corrected them. Check out Gun and Knife Forum for there M14 forum. A lot of people are complaining about Springfield quality control on the newer guns. Most of the parts are of commercial manufacture and are cast-they have ran out of New USGI parts. For magazines stick to USGI although the CHICOM ones I paid $4 for are dead ringers for USGI except they are a lighter color and have no Manufacture stamp. We gave machinery to Tiawan to make M14s-possible that they sold the equipment to China. Coles Distibuting in KY sells used excellent GI mags ten for $310.00 delivered.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 11:11:03 AM EST
Several things from the Fulton Armory FAQ: [url]http://www.fultonarmory.com/[/url] What's the best type of M14 Receiver: forged, cast, or from-billet? by Walt Kuleck What're the differences among forged, cast, and from-billet M-14-type receivers? First, please note that M1A is a registered trademark of Springfield, Inc. and can be used only by them to describe their M14-type rifle. Most M14-type receivers are investment cast; among them: Springfield, Inc., Armscorp, Smith. There's the new Entreprise Arms receiver that's supposed to be machined from a billet (a solid hunk of steel). There have been offers of forged receivers but to the best of my knowledge none ever made it to market, save one: the PolyTech/Norinco M14S. Of course, even cast receivers are machined after coming out of the mold, as are from-billet and forged receivers. The M1 and M14 were designed to be machined from forgings. The sections and dimensions were designed for the forging process. It's difficult to cast the thin sections of the receiver rails, for example, without distortion. That's why Ruger Mini-14 receivers look so clunky: they were designed to be cast. My personal belief is that forged receivers are potentially strongest, followed by billet and then cast. However, that's only part of the story. More salient than some theoretical strength limit is the qualiy of the receiver: its dimensions and geometry. That's why Fulton Armory is so "down" on Fed Ord receivers. Check the Fed Ord entry in the FAQ. Correspondingly, that's why Fulton Armory is so "up" on Chinese receivers (though the rest of the rifle is junk): the geometry is wonderful. Again, check the FAQ. When push comes to shove, Fulton Armory recommends Springfield, Inc. as having the best balance of quality and availability. Springfield, Inc. stands behinds its products and will make right something that's wrong. You can't get that kind of service from the People's Liberation Army. Hope this answers your question! --Walt Kuleck Addendum from Clint McKee: In any case, do not buy a rewelded receiver/rifle, no matter who says so. Unless ofcourse, you want a display piece (read this as wall hanger). M14 type receivers are *case* heat treated to (if mil spec) 60+ Rockwell "C". This is commonly known as "file hard." The case heat treat is 12-18 thousandths deep, with the core dropping to 28-35 (or so?). This issue has been repeatably addressed. When welding such a material (8620 steel) heat treated to a case of 60+ Rockwell "C", the weld will create micro fractures (best case) or other stress fractures that will result in possible/likely cracking of the receiver. Very Bad! Why do or buy such a thing? --Clint McKee
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 11:31:52 AM EST
what do you guys think about building your own m1a? is this possible? and what company manufactures/sells receivers to the public? (through a ffl of course), also where could I get a complete parts kit? thanks again
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 11:49:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By combo_man: the best deal is probably thasprigfeild match grade m1a. it would be much more for a rifle of same magnitude done aftermarket. it comes with walnut stock , stainless barrel, and match grade trigger group. i myself can get one for about 1400. good luck
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As a general rule, the match rifles set up by custom gunsmiths are best--and they don't cost much more than a package gun, like the one you would get from Springfield. Sometimes they even cost less.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 11:53:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By big_guy: what do you guys think about building your own m1a? is this possible? and what company manufactures/sells receivers to the public? (through a ffl of course), also where could I get a complete parts kit? thanks again
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Well, of course it is possible. But it is [i]real[/i] gunnsmithing. If you read through the Fulton Armory FAQ, they certainly don't suggest such a thing. I would do things like glass bed my DCM Garand, and "fix" its rear sight. But installing a barrel, etc., is more advanced than I want to get . . .
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 3:28:10 PM EST
Installing the barrel is the only part I won't do on my own.Remember these were made for US Soldiers to use and maintain. As far as Clint's Fulton site it has some good info but he is wrong about the MKS and Hahn welds.Have you guys ever seen the welds on a nuke sub or in a nuke plant?The same exact process is used and you can bet your happy ass that those welds are more important than receivers.Just don't get Billy Bob at the mufler shop.It takes jigs,exact preheat,proper equipment and technique and then cool down and heat treat. That said I still prefer the ChiCom receivers.You can often buy the complete gun for $400-450.Then replace $400 in parts in 20 minutes and it is a kickass firearm. cpermd
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