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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 9/19/2001 4:03:09 PM EDT
a couple of weeks ago there was a thread about how unions suck. in view of the fact that the construction workers that are involved with the effort being made in ny are all members of various trade unions i wonder if you guys still feel that unions suck? A PROUD MEMBER OF IBEW LOCAL 269 TRENTON NJ
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 4:12:14 PM EDT
ALL YOUR............oh never mind......[stick]
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 4:14:59 PM EDT
Unions still suck, socialism never works, not even when we pratice it here dude, but the union members are good guys. Hate the sin and love the sinner....
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 4:15:48 PM EDT
The firemen and police are also union AFAIK.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 4:16:19 PM EDT
I have no problems with union workers, it's the union leadership I don't like
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 4:17:09 PM EDT
The heart and soul that these guy are pouring out in NY are because they are great human beings not because they belong to unions! In Texas where unions are less visible the reaction would have been the same. The marxist leanings of today's unions have not effect on what is going on in NYC.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 4:17:58 PM EDT
Yes, the leaders are the problems not the members
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 4:19:28 PM EDT
exgi, I have been a union member most of my life, my father before me. (I am 56) Unions are only as good as their locals, in my opinion. I was a member of the CWA, local 1101, for about 10 years in NYC. Although there are, I suppose, horror stories about unions, I support them. A case in point - locally, the corporation that owns Wah Chang - Teledyne , Allegheny, has locked out workers during the recent impasse in negotiations. The company wants to take away medical benefits from workers ALREADY RETIRED. I do not work for them, and I never have. I just wanted to illustrate that unions are not always the bad guy. I SALUTE THOSE BRAVE PEOPLE IN NYC. John H Osterholm
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 4:32:15 PM EDT
I work for a union,(NOT by choice) and in my opinion they SUCK!!! They extort a percentage of your paycheck in order to further their own political agenda... The union is nothing more than a safe harbor for lazy people to remain overpaid and underworked... My current employer is the only union company I've ever worked for, and I've NEVER seen so many lazy, useless, underqualified, backstabbing fuckheads in my life. Very few of the people in this company actually EARN their paychecks. I'm one of the few that do. It's no wonder why all the big companys are moving to Mexico, or going out of business... If I owned a company, and a union was voted in, I would close the doors and go bankrupt... I don't understand how a union shop can make any money... BTW...My remarks are NOT aimed at the NYPD or FDNY... Those guys are the exception...
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 4:39:03 PM EDT
I only like unions on my hamburgers..... wait....... ........damnit
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 4:46:03 PM EDT
Your proud that your union dues help finance the anti-gun cause? Whatever. I echo the statement made about the workers in NY clearing away the mess are doing so because they are human beings, NOT because they are union. If they were doing so because they were union, the effort would nowhere near as far along as they are, too many coffee breaks and too much shovel leaning would have slowed the progress... I stick by the statement I made in the last thread: Unions do nothing but allow a worker to become lazy and careless. JRB
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 5:08:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 5:10:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2001 5:11:26 PM EDT by Nekkid80]
Originally Posted By exgi: A PROUD MEMBER OF IBEW LOCAL 269 TRENTON NJ
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Being a fellow electrician, I have seen the ugly side of the International Brotherhood of Electrical workers. The bias of pro-union electrical inspector is unprofessional when they abuse the power of their post to harass the "rats". When a Union contractor doesn't win the bid on a job the IBEW wines and pickets the job. They result to name calling also. It reminds me of children that don't get their way.[>(] The non-union contractors don't picket and cry if a union contractor wins a job in my area. What gives? The IBEW is trying to fix the wage of an electrician to be artificially high and CAN'T compete with the rats in our city. Its the acts of people, the Unions are trying to take credit for.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 5:12:33 PM EDT
Most of the Ant-Union Guys are just petty little men with to much time on their hands.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 5:14:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BigJohnStacey: Most of the Aunti-Union Guys are just petty little men with tooooooo much time on their hands.
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I know ya are butt what am I?
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 5:17:34 PM EDT
I'll bet most of you Uniion guys were pressured to vote for Gore. Would you REALLY want Gore in office right now? Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 5:18:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2001 5:17:47 PM EDT by ar15bubba]
In response to Big Stacey's Johnson, isn't it unions that cry about having longer breaks and not working too many hours a week?
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 5:32:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ar15bubba: In response to Big Stacey's Johnson, isn't it unions that cry about having longer breaks and not working too many hours a week?
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Now, Bubba is from Texas. I lived in Texas for a while. I know the Unions aren't very popular in Texas. Along with dental higene, soap and dating outside one's family. If you ask me if'd rather work in a union shop making $30 hr with nice bennies or in a non-union shop making $20 with no bennies. What do you'd think I do. I'm not saying Unions are perfect. They're al long way from it.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 5:39:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BigJohnStacey: Now, Bubba is from Texas. I lived in Texas for a while. I know the Unions aren't very popular in Texas. Along with dental higene, soap and dating outside one's family. If you ask me if'd rather work in a union shop making $30 hr with nice bennies or in a non-union shop making $20 with no bennies. What do you'd think I do. I'm not saying Unions are perfect. They're al long way from it.
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Im my opinion this shows selfishness. Too many people would rather make $10 more an hour and support people who would take every other right they have away. Umm yeah, I want $30 and hour over $20 an hour, even if my dues go to political candidates who favor EVERYTHING I am against. Makes no sense to me. Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 5:51:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 6:11:52 PM EDT
Making a good wage and having job sercuity is not selfish. The UAW doesn't give any campain contributions to anyone anymore. I've seen work done my non-union shop vs Union shops and the Union shops do better work. Flame away!!! BIG JOHN STACEY AKA Johnson
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 6:13:59 PM EDT
Hey, I have NEVER voted Democrat, nor had my father, except once when he voted for FDR (once) Please do not stereotype union members. Not to get into the history of the labor movement, but without their sacrifices, there would not be benefits for anyone. As for those of you who don't want to make a decent living with benefits of any any kind, there's a 7-11 waiting for you. And don't lecture me on being selfish because I belong to a union. Look at the top CEO's. They aren't union, and I would bet their benefits are a lot better than mine. You want to work non union? Hey, it's free country. go right ahead. Just don't flame me because I choose to belong. I never said they were perfect. JRB L1A1: I am not lazy and careless. I work in a jail, and I would not last too long if I fit the picture you've painted of me.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 6:15:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BigJohnStacey: Making a good wage and having job sercuity is not selfish. The UAW doesn't give any campain contributions to anyone anymore. I've seen work done my non-union shop vs Union shops and the Union shops do better work. Flame away!!! BIG JOHN STACEY AKA Johnson
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No, they probably just give money to groups who DO make political donations. If you belives NONE of your dues money goes to polititians you are nuts dude. Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 6:20:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2001 6:22:56 PM EDT by Aviator]
Nope, UAW does not use its money for politics at all, you are right... [url]http://www.uaw.org/politics/dclink/index.html[/url] Here is an example from that page... [b]Bush Tax Cut Squanders Surplus, Jeopardizing Key Social Programs New budget projections by OMB and CBO have verified what the UAW and other progressive groups have been predicting. The huge, unfair Bush tax cut that was rammed through Congress by Republicans earlier this year has wiped out all of the non-Social Security/Medicare surplus that was projected for next year. In fact, the new budget projections show that the federal government will now be forced to dip into the Social Security and Medicare trust funds to the tune of $38 billion dollars. The reason is that the Bush tax cut has drained away $74 billion. In addition, the slowing economy has reduced government revenues by another $25 billion.[/b] Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 6:42:48 PM EDT
Why is it that the anti-union shitbirds are always dumber than bricks? Your union leadership is only as good as the people who want to get involved in their union. Under Federal law, you are allowed to have returned to you the portion of your union dues used for political purposes. If the whiners would take a moment and read this portion of their union agreements rather than gush and menstruate publicly, perhaps they could channel their energies into something somewhat positive. Oh I know, it's just so much more fun to come off as a total jackass. And the mental masturbation continues. [b]PROUD SUPPORTER OF IBEW LOCAL 1002[/b] [img]http://www.ibew.org/_borders/ibewlogomain.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 6:49:15 PM EDT
So, you let them take money out of your check for politics, and you get it returned to you. Your union still goes after getting solcialist policies, and you get more money. The money you donate, that you get back still goes to electing Democratic candidates. Still sounds selfish to me. Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 6:54:13 PM EDT
Okay, let me type this really, really slow and I'll quote myself, too:
Your union leadership is only as good as the people who want to get involved in their union.
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BTW, of what union/local do you/have you held membership? That's what I thought. Later, dude.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 6:56:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JRB L1A1: I stick by the statement I made in the last thread: Unions do nothing but allow a worker to become lazy and careless. JRB
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That just shows that you are ignorant and uninformed. There is a major difference in trade unions and standard factory unions. In my Union, Millwrights Local 1029, if you dont put out, you starve out.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 6:56:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2001 6:56:36 PM EDT by Aviator]
I COULD have been a member of a unioun when I was working for the Government, but chose not to. I would have felt like shit about doing that. Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img] PS, who did your Union ask you to vote for in the last election?
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 7:07:53 PM EDT
I COULD have been a member of a unioun when I was working for the Government, but chose not to. I would have felt like shit about doing that.
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And I could have done a lot of things, too. So what? I am SO glad you followed your heart. I can sleep well for sure. Nighty night, boys.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 7:10:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 7:14:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2001 7:26:54 PM EDT by operatorerror]
Originally Posted By Aviator: I'll bet most of you Uniion guys were pressured to vote for Gore. Would you REALLY want Gore in office right now? Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]
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Yeah, I was asked to vote for Gore. I am a union member, not a drone. I voted for Bush. And if it's selfish to want good pay and benefits, then I'm selfish. Should I quit my job because they suggest I vote for a democrat? I don't think so. And, yes, the union spends money to influence public opinion and politicians. This gets me what all workers are seeking, good pay and benefits. I worked damn hard to get this job, I am proud of what I do, and I can be easily replaced by someone willing to work for half the pay and no benefits. And, in my profession, if you don't perform, you don't work. Local 55.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 7:28:13 PM EDT
Workers unite, let the proletariat rise up against the bourgeois. The workers are opressed. this is heard where?: a)In a union rally b)Comrade Lenin's rally c)both
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 7:29:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ar15bubba: Workers unite, let the proletariat rise up against the bourgeois. The workers are opressed. this is heard where?: a)In a union rally b)Comrade Lenin's rally c)both
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Bubba, You crack me up!
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 8:19:26 PM EDT
Unions lock in pay and benefits to a scale as negotiated by the union and management. This is great if you are a slacker but not to hot if you are a performer. I have worked in union and non union jobs. I escaped the union job and have moved progressivly into much better paying positions elsewhere.
Link Posted: 9/19/2001 11:03:29 PM EDT
Unions are needed in my line of work. Overall, they are good if you belong to them, but do add expense to the consumer. I hate the way unions are infested with liberals. I hate it when they use union funds to help anti freedom politicos. My friends and I vote freedom first, and are very proud that we helped defeat Gore.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 2:27:46 AM EDT
born american,union tell i die! why do so many people bitch about good wages,benefits,and retirment? oh wait i know why its called jealousy. local 430 plumbers and pipefitters we do it right the first time!
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 2:43:40 AM EDT
Unions exist because workers genuinely are exploited by unscrupulous company owners. Why else do you think sweatshops that hire unregistered aliens for pennies an hour still exist? Why don't you study the way such captains of industry as Carnegie, Frick, and Ford treated their workers? The words "company town" ring any bells for anyone here? Run a search on "Homestead Strike." Run a search on the history of the Pinkerton Detectives. Run a search on "Matewan" and then watch the movie by the same name... Anti-union shitbirds have a tendency to judge everything by todays environment, where due to the efforts of unions in the past, almost all workers are able to earn a living whether they belong to a union or not.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 2:56:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BigJohnStacey: Most of the Ant-Union Guys are just petty little men with to much time on their hands.
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Being forced to join a union (UAW) is one of theworst things to ever happen to me. I like my job but I cant do anything without being hamstrung by my worthless union. There is NO INCENTIVE to do a good job MERIT means NOTHING, so most guys are lszy worthless slobs. I, and some of my fellow tradesmen were laid off earlier this year, and my supervisors were up in arms that some of the better employees were going to be on the street while lazy ignorant, dont give a shit, donut eatin pigs were what they were going to be stuck with. When I was called back I had to go where the opening was in the plant and spent 6 months learning my area, now some pig has decided to "bump" into my job. I get forced to move into another dept where I will have to start over and meanwhile I am not as productive to the company as I could be and my attitude takes another shot in the ass. Not to mention the pig taking my slot most likely doesnt have a clue or care to learn. I HATE the union, they would/will kill the goose that lays the egg rather than do whats best for both the workers and the long term health of the company, which is what keeps us all working. This weeks example of the worthless union is 2 guys were caught in the parking lot smoking dope on 3rd shift, the worthless union will fight tooth fang and claw to bring these unworthey sacks of shit back instead of doing the right thing. This a typical event in the union. No wonder the public at large holds most union memebers in such a low view. Guys working "outside", that is working on construction jobs of limited duration not necessarily for the same company or contractor for long DO benefit from the union in many ways but around here the IBEW sends guys out and if they dont do the work they get sent packing and another guys is called from the hall. In a large Co. were stuck with worthless turds. I could go on for a long time how bad I hate the union. I quit a job paying only fractionaly less with better overall bennies for this but I like my job better but thats due to the Company.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 3:12:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy: Why is it that the anti-union shitbirds are always dumber than bricks? Your union leadership is only as good as the people who want to get involved in their union. Under Federal law, you are allowed to have returned to you the portion of your union dues used for political purposes. If the whiners would take a moment and read this portion of their union agreements rather than gush and menstruate publicly, perhaps they could channel their energies into something somewhat positive. Oh I know, it's just so much more fun to come off as a total jackass. And the mental masturbation continues. [b]PROUD SUPPORTER OF IBEW LOCAL 1002[/b] [img]http://www.ibew.org/_borders/ibewlogomain.jpg[/img]
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Yes, the law does allow for return of % of dues used for political purposes. And the unions leadership hates it. When Bush pushed for workers to be notified of this law, the unions leadership almost fainted. I used to work for a contractor that does work in Power Plants during a turnaround. The Plant's management were always amazed at our work output. It seemed our machinists would be able to turn out a part in two hours that would take the Power Plant machinists 8. That's why we were there. Their staff should have been able to handle the work, but they were too busy F&*king the Dog in order to get more overtime. We needed to get a large valve on a pallet onto an elevator. A forktruck operator was setting on his truck. Waiting to truck something. We asked him to put it on the elevator. "No can do," he said, "You need to find the shop steward, have him tell me." The shop steward seemed to be a very hard man to find. 45 minutes later the shop steward told the forktruck driver to put that valve on the elevator. The driver had set on that forktruck doing nothing, while we hunted the steward. We rode the elevator with the valve on up. We got to the floor we needed. The door opened. [b]There, a few yards away, sat another forktruck driver on his forktruck.[/b] ARRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!! (Forehead Slap) Unions claim to be "Pro Worker" In fact they are Pro Union. Any worker that is non-union on a union site is a scab. Not someone trying to earn a living by doing an honest day's work. A scab. Hell, at one particular plant, we could not even use their coke machine. It was made very clear that only Union quarters worked in that machine. With all the coffee and coke breaks those guys took, it was impossible to sneak a coke! When I hire on to a job I should be hired on the basis of my qualifications, not because of who my daddy, uncle, or friends are!
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 3:14:01 AM EDT
Unions = Socialism. Wear your title proudly oh union folks. After all Socialsim isn't really so bad, is it?
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 4:28:31 AM EDT
I don't know Hielo. I've never been in a union and after college I've pretty much been management. I see unions as a citizens way to limit government intervention, a way for people, citizens, workers, to have an affective means of dealing with greedy over powering corporations. Both sides act like assholes from time to time.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 4:59:43 AM EDT
At least, Y'all aren't a member of the Sheet Metal Workers International Association like I am. Here in the USA, we can vote for someone who will become the leader of the GREATEST country in the world. In the Sheet Metal Workers International Association, we can't even vote on our own Shop Steward. Go Figure! Vulcan94
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 5:50:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2001 5:52:28 AM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 6:14:15 AM EDT
JC, your absolutely right. I apologize for making the all inclusive and over generalized statement about unions allowing workers to become lazy. Trade unions are a bit different, and no I am not completely ignorant. My experience with unions have been NOTHING but awful and enlightening. I HAD respect for them until I worked under them. During a few college summers, I worked construction jobs (both union and non union), I worked for a unionized school system grounds/maintenance crew, and I also worked maintenance in a new apartment complex that was built by union guys in every aspect. In both the construction and school system jobs I saw union guys prepare to prepare for break, prepare for break, and then break. Take more than the allotted time for break, and then repeat the process in reverse order to get back to work. Rarely did I see a job get done with "craftsmanship" or "pride", and then if it was it was only to kill a bit a time (an hour) before the clock said they could prepare to prepare for clocking out. The apt complex I worked in a was CONTINUOUSLY repairing, or actually finishing the job for some lazy union boy who decided not to do his job. The electrical boxes were a mess, the plumbing was barely up to code standards, and the carpentry was simply poor. All by union boys. I am sure there are unions that have a legit purpose and training program, but until I witness it, the old stereotypes will always be reinforced by my experiences. I simply smile and try to hold back my laughter when I see the bumbersticker or see someone wearing the t-shirt with slogan "There is no substitute for union craftsmanship". "Union craftsmanship" is an oxymoron. JRB
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 6:37:09 AM EDT
Nope still don't have a use for unions. Really admire all the individuals out there working their hearts out. They would be doing it union or not.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 5:19:18 AM EDT
No, Mr. Beekeeper the point I am making is not one of nostalgia. I included the reference to sweatshops to indicate that unscrupulous owner/managers still exist despite government regulations and the best efforts of unions. Until the advent of unions, such things were the norm rather than the exception. If there were, magically, no unions as of this moment, that situation would shortly become the norm again, IMO. Or would you prefer to turn the issue of worker treatment over to government regulation? Unions are nothing more than organizations of workers. One worker has no appreciable voice against a major corporation, despite what Randian fantasy world some live in. All the workers together have a voice that cannot be ignored. Modern union workers realize full well that they are stakeholders in the welfare of the company as a whole and they do their best to see that the company survives and prospers. You can call that socialism if you wish, it makes no difference to me what it pleases you to call things.
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