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Posted: 12/19/2006 7:34:04 PM EDT
[#1]
Don't they have ships mothballed that have been sitting around for decades? If so, why not shoot THOSE up before you sink something out of service for a year?
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Posted: 12/19/2006 7:50:11 PM EDT
[#2]
I served aboard her right out of high-school, from 1985-1989. I was an M-60 gunner on the focsle in the Persian Gulf, on mine watch after the Iranians nearly blew the Robert's in half; ships diver when we ran aground in the Azores in the middle of the night in a storm; searched for LT Walker when our Seahawk went down - taking him to his grave in water over 2 miles deep; taking over the Vincennes patrol area after they shot down the Iranian Airbus, & our Battle Group almost starting an International incident in Naples, Italy when we finally got a port call after over 3 consecutive months at sea. 3 captains in 4 years, 290 days a year at sea 3 years in a row (which led to the highest suicide & divorce rate, and lowest retention rate in the Navy at the time - and I had the time of my life. My time & experiences onboard the USS Spruance helped me become the man I am now. I knew when I saw the Arleigh Burke & Bunker Hill roll out of Ingalls shipyard that the Spruance class was not much longer for the Navy. I wish they would have sunk her as an artificial reef, like the Oriskany, so I could dive her.
 RIP DD 963
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Posted: 12/19/2006 7:53:13 PM EDT
[#3]
How about just sinking some pirate ships?
Or Iranian? |
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Posted: 12/19/2006 7:56:16 PM EDT
[#4]
+1000 - she was far from outdated, with the Vertical Launch System (Tomahawks), Sea Sparrow missles, Mk48 Torpedos, 5 inch guns, Phalanx CIWS (20 mm gatling guns) SQQ-53, 89, & 28 Sonar systems, which I personally punished the most advanced Soviet submarines in the world with, and ironically Harpoon missles, which they used to sink her. The Anti-submarine platform is not as desirable as it was during the cold war. The Arleigh Burke class Aegis ships are the trend, as ASW is now tasked to attack subs. |
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Posted: 12/19/2006 7:57:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Good night, grey lady.
Well served, M'am |
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Posted: 12/19/2006 8:10:12 PM EDT
[#6]
I demand a video.
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Posted: 12/19/2006 8:17:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Damn. I feel old again.
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Posted: 12/19/2006 8:18:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Kind of what I was thinking. The ship wasn't that outdated - especially as compared to other ships they have in mothballs. As far as AS work being less important - I hope they sent the memo to the Chinese and everyone else. What also concerns me was the mention of bad weather preventing a more robust attack. I'm hoping the line near the end means that the ship sunk faster than they thought due the the rough seas (thus ending the excresize) rather than tough weather hampering our abilities to attack it. Of course that means they are more likely to sink when damaged when under rough seas, but I guess that's a no brainer.  -K |
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Posted: 12/19/2006 8:38:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Let me help...I served on the Midway. 
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Posted: 12/20/2006 6:02:52 AM EDT
[#10]
I would imagine because instead of just target practice, they want to learn what the things in their arsenal can do to modern warships. |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 6:07:56 AM EDT
[#11]
Why couldn't we have sold this to Taiwan or S. Korea? |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 6:11:46 AM EDT
[#12]
With steel prices at an all-time high, I don't understand why we don't cut-up old ships and recycle the steel...
Why the fuck do we drop thousands and thousands of tons of steel to the bottom of the ocean ??? 
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Posted: 12/20/2006 6:15:24 AM EDT
[#13]
Who is it that gives the go-ahead on these type of exercises ? |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 6:18:41 AM EDT
[#14]
Because it costs more money to "cut them up" than that which will be recouped from the scrap process. CMOS |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 6:24:12 AM EDT
[#15]
SPRUANCE brings back some VERY good memories.
Sad to see her go. In the end, many more of the class will likely end up as targets. Several already have.
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Posted: 12/20/2006 6:25:34 AM EDT
[#16]
She was out of date, VLS just made her an expensive Tomahawk platform. She was expensive to operate, and she shares a similar hull to our TICONDEROGA-class guided missile cruisers. So she will be able to provide vital data to the ships still in the fleet.
The reason we do not sink more older ships is the hazardous materials onboard. Remember the hoops Oriskany had to go through before they would sink her? Also older ships do not provide valuable data to existing ships. |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 6:30:24 AM EDT
[#17]
I sure wish I could restore an old sub or battle ship. I think it would be fun to cruise the seas in a WW2 type battle ship. Take people on cruises and fire the main guns (starbursts or somthing) at some little island.
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Posted: 12/20/2006 7:48:20 AM EDT
[#18]
She was still on active duty when I started. Please try again. 
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Posted: 12/20/2006 7:52:09 AM EDT
[#19]
I manned the fighting tops on Old Ironsides...... |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 8:05:28 AM EDT
[#20]
You and me both - I was on the Edwards (DD950) when the first Spru cans came on line. The Edwards also met the same fate in a sinkex - which also involved a Harpoon launched from a P3
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Posted: 12/20/2006 8:15:01 AM EDT
[#21]
In a past life, I took Cleopatra's personal yacht out for its sea trials.
I was the engine mechanic. Meaning I'd whip anyone who wasn't rowing!  But seriously...I guess there are good reasons for sinking a ship that's recently retired. It's likely to be in good shape, mostly intact, and a very good comparison for seeing how active ships in its class take damage. I wonder what goodies are still on it, at the bottom of the ocean? Are any weapons systems still on it? What about sonar or other electronic systems? CJ |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 8:26:19 AM EDT
[#22]
 I remember that story, pic- a classic! |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 8:39:32 AM EDT
[#23]
I share your sentiments. I served on the U.S.S. Oldendorf in 1981-83. She met the same fate. Our whole battle group was shown in the boneyard on the history channel, starting with the Constellation. Damn shame. Those Spruance's were great to serve on! Best time in my life, I'll tell you. I was an OS and proud to be one serving in President Ronald Reagans Navy. I miss the Oly. |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 9:13:26 AM EDT
[#24]
I'm pretty sure that we sold at least a couple of Spruance class to Iran when the Shah was still in power. I remember hearing about the 'goat pens' on the fantail.
Don't know if they were ever delivered though. |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 9:21:41 AM EDT
[#25]
I was on USS John Young DD-973. No Harpoon, just a Mk 48 ADCAP took her down.
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Posted: 12/20/2006 9:25:06 AM EDT
[#26]
We were going to sell them 4 Kidd-class ships. The Kidd class were what the Spru-cans were supposed to be before their fixed costs and high inflation unarmed them for the most part. The sale didn't go through because of the '79 revolution and the Navy picked up all four for the price of one, thanks to the large down payment the Shah made. They've been sold to Taiwan, IIRC. |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 11:01:13 AM EDT
[#27]
71-73 
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Posted: 12/20/2006 11:13:56 AM EDT
[#28]
Can't find the Spru's sinkex on the net yet, here's her sister ship, the USS STUMP in her final moments
  "We had a lot of high-tech, coordinated weapons, but the ships were sunk by basic naval gunnery, probably the least technically advanced weapon out there," said Lt. Cmdr. Mike Weeldreyer, operations officer for Destroyer Squadron 28, which led the exercise from the Mason. "That was somewhat of a surprise to us," said Capt. Mike Franken, the squadron's commodore. "We shot 45 5-inch rounds in the Stump, targeting the waterline, and it went down in short order." In about 90 minutes, its stern fell below the surface, leaving the bow of the 563-foot, 7,800-ton warship pointed skyward. "We left the area to let the Air Force at it and by the time we came back, it looked like a phoenix, sticking straight up," Franken said. "It was an eerie feeling, looking into a somewhat hazy sun in the west and seeing this sharp, very defined bow sticking maybe 200 feet out of the water." Huge bubbles gurgled around the Stump as successive airtight bulkheads gave way under the pressure of the water, he said. In graduated pulsations, it slipped farther and farther beneath the water's surface, ending up on what the officers said was a desert floor, more than two miles deep, void of most marine life. |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 11:22:19 AM EDT
[#29]
They gave my ship tot he Turks. Now the Turks are going to sink it USS Capodanno ff1093 |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 11:38:03 AM EDT
[#30]
 
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Posted: 12/20/2006 12:50:35 PM EDT
[#31]
They should leave a couple CWIS on there try to attack it with UAV's - you'd think someone would try to test more of the weapons and defense systems on these (although I suppose it's too dangerous to the attacking group).
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Posted: 12/20/2006 4:09:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Because the Chinese are not copying the ships that we have had in mothballs for decades. |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 4:12:24 PM EDT
[#33]
The Navy has a self-defense test ship where those weapons are tested. And the bonus is we get to keep the weapons instead of them ending up on the bottom of the ocean. |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 4:23:08 PM EDT
[#34]
Rather depressing seeing those Sru cans already involved in SINKEX's. I was a ST on the Obannon DD-987 which was decommed after the Spruance, I wonder if she is next?
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Posted: 12/20/2006 5:00:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Thanks for posting...pretty sweet, it's another Spruance. http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-d/sdts.htm |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 6:44:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Here's the Spruance after we grounded her in the Azores. Pic 1 is an aerial shot of the USNS Grasp, a salvage ship staffed by US Navy Divers, and the USNS Mohawk, an ocean-going tug. This is after Bahamian tugs had tried unsuccesfully to free us for 2 weeks. We finally pumped off all our water and fuel (into a barge), waited for high tide, & they pulled us off. Then the Grasp towed us back to Ingalls Shipyard in Pascagoula, MS. Pic 2 is of a Navy diver inspecting whats left of the screw blades - I did the same dive an hour after the grounding after midnight in a thunderstorm, after the Command Master Chief promised me a medal (NAM) if I would "volunteer" to go over the side.
 
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Posted: 12/20/2006 6:45:26 PM EDT
[#37]
 
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Posted: 12/20/2006 7:00:32 PM EDT
[#38]
+1000 There was an episode about this on 60 Minutes. Most ships in the world are cut up in Bangledesh (IIRC) and there is a lot of pollution produced in the process (oil, etc.). The U.S. is not allowed to sell their ships to be cut up in Bangledesh because of some treaty they signed. And it's too expensive to have them cut up in the U.S. because of high labor costs and having to comply with EPA and a dozen other .gov agencies. |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 7:02:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Did you get the medal? |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 7:09:09 PM EDT
[#40]
nope, as you may know, each command is allotted X amount of NAM'S (Navy Achievement medals) per year. Our Captain was relieved of his command after the incident, and the new Captain said he wasn't going to give his years allotment out on what he considered a "negative incident". I got a(nother) Letter of Commendation that I could've wiped my ass with.
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Posted: 12/20/2006 7:34:13 PM EDT
[#41]
The ship or the island?  I too remember when they were the "new" ships. The older ships, Belknaps, Leahy's, and their vintage are going too. Tartar and Terrier shooters. The Spruances were a decent platform after many years of upgrading but they were always a less than satisfactory combination of compromises. The Paul F. Foster (first Spruance on the Pacific side) was in LBNSY at the same time my ship (Horne, CG-30), and I talked to my counterpart 1st. Lt., the ships were approximately the same size and as we were a flag mod ship, we whad 4 small boats, Barge, Gig, MWB and UB, they only had a MWB and Gig. I had a First Division paper compliment of 70, I usually had somewhere in the mid-60s, his compliment of sailors to do the same tasks was under 30. And many other areas were similar. They just didn't have the hands to do many jobs and no place to put them even if they did somehow get that many. Not necessarily knocking them, but they were sure a great prototype and testing platform and we learned a lot of things that went into later and greater classes of ships. I guess I see them as more of a placeholder than anything else. As far as holding on to them, nobody wants them, they are far too big for most small countries to crew up, they don't have the capabilities that many smaller coastal navies have or want. They are blue water CVBG assets, whereas most navies need more littoral combat assets. And frankly, if we ever needed to get a lot of ships on line such that the Spruances were desired, we'ld still be waiting for the sailors to get out of boot camp and tech schools long after the need for the ships had passed. We just don't have the bodies, active or reserve, to man them up. |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 7:39:43 PM EDT
[#42]
Didn't we sell the tiawaneese 4 spruance class ships recently. We should have also sold this one just to piss off the chineese allittle more.
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Posted: 12/20/2006 7:54:35 PM EDT
[#43]
This is a good thread. Thanks for your service fellas. Great stories and pics.
Midnight? In a thunderstorm? You Navy guys have some stones. |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 7:59:43 PM EDT
[#44]
yeah, I know it sounds like BS. I'll try to dig up the LOC & scan it so you can read it.
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Posted: 12/20/2006 8:01:20 PM EDT
[#45]
 I still do a bit of diving
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Posted: 12/20/2006 8:04:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Nope. Kidd class. |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 8:15:48 PM EDT
[#47]
I figured there would be a new Captain somewhere in this story. 
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Posted: 12/20/2006 8:24:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Yep, new LTJG (OOD) to replace the one who refused to take recommendation to turn the ship from QM1 w/ over 20 years navigation experience too. QM1 finally called the XO to the bridge when he realized the OOD wouldn't turn (he pulled a Captain Kirk "I HAVE THE CONN"). As soon as the XO stepped onto the bridge we made impact. |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 8:52:02 PM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 12/20/2006 8:56:39 PM EDT
[#50]
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