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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 9/11/2001 2:40:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2001 5:36:18 PM EDT by gus]
Earlier today I was in a fit of anger and outrage. I said some things that are uncharacteristic of me and that were surely offensive to some on the board. I would like to publicly apologize to Omar and any others of Middle Eastern descent that are Americans and/or are as outraged as I am about this cowardly attack. Please understand that many of us are growing very tired of the flow of terrorism coming from the Middle East, and that at times of maximum outrage it is easy to fall into the trap of aiming the anger at all Muslims. I work with many of Arabic descent and find them to be very much the same as me in most respects (though in some cases it is a little hard to understand them.... JUST KIDDING!!!!!). Again, I was wrong to say some of the things I did, and even though I am still going out of my mind wondering about a cousin of mine that worked in the Trade Center, as well as the people my employer had in the buildings, I will try to keep my anger focused on the actual bad guys. Troy Gustafson gus P.S. My cousin is going to be OK. Let's keep the prayers coming for those that are not so lucky!
Link Posted: 9/11/2001 2:55:51 PM EDT
Gus, that is gracious of you. We are all under a lot of strain and shock, and all need to calm down. Vengeance is a dish best served cold.
Link Posted: 9/11/2001 3:01:22 PM EDT
Troy, thankyou for your apology... I'm certain that everyone on this board feels your same or simialar anger... Until we can narrow it down from a short list of suspects to a list of one... we cannot target or single out anyone or any group. Knee Jerk reactions are best left to the liberals. CHIMBORAZO: Head Up man, we know that you and yours weren't involved. I'm certain GUS spoke out of rage and not reason as he stated. This is a time for a United Stand not a Divided Fall. Semper Fi Matt
Link Posted: 9/11/2001 3:02:57 PM EDT
I'm almost out of the "Sonny Corleone" mode.
Link Posted: 9/11/2001 3:09:13 PM EDT
Screw Chimborazo. I have nothing against him personally or any Arabs for that matter. Additionally I have said here many times that I do not agree with or appreciate our policy of holding Isreals hand constantly. In fact I agree with that portion of what he has to say. But he picked a piss poor time to begin a thread in the manner he did. It sounded to me like he would much rather be "over there" cheering in the celebration and firing into the air. If he wants to cuss Isreal and our policy with them I'll cuss right along side him. But if he wants to cuss the US and our policy in the wake of what happened today fuck him. He deserves no apologies.
Link Posted: 9/11/2001 3:11:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2001 3:16:21 PM EDT
Thank-you, Troy! Let cool heads prevail! DaMan
Link Posted: 9/11/2001 5:35:18 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 6:48:22 AM EDT
gus, you've got mail, but here it is anyway: Thank you very much. I wanted to respond publicly, but I couldn't find the post (I'll post when I find it). Anyway, I really appreciate what you said. I understand that many of us are angry and sad, and that emotions (including mine) are running hot. If I said anything offensive to you I truly apologize. I was just really upset that people were equating all Arabs and Muslims with the cold-blooded murderers responsible for yesterday's events. I was also upset that people were accusing me of making excuses for them or justifying what happened. Anyway, absolutely NO hard feelings, and I look forward to future discussions with you. Thank you again for your kind note. Sincerely, Omar S. Hassan [i]Also, thank you to everyone else. This is a time for us to come together.[/i]
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 6:51:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gunslinger: Screw Chimborazo. I have nothing against him personally or any Arabs for that matter. Additionally I have said here many times that I do not agree with or appreciate our policy of holding Isreals hand constantly. In fact I agree with that portion of what he has to say. But he picked a piss poor time to begin a thread in the manner he did. It sounded to me like he would much rather be "over there" cheering in the celebration and firing into the air. If he wants to cuss Isreal and our policy with them I'll cuss right along side him. But if he wants to cuss the US and our policy in the wake of what happened today fuck him. He deserves no apologies.
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Gunslinger, You have me confused with someone else. I did nothing of the sort in any of my posts. I was merely responding to unfocused hatred. Go back and read my posts, and you will see you are mistaken. Chimborazo
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 7:01:14 AM EDT
I won't apologize. No f'ing way. Go to hell, Chimbo. I responded to another post where some jerk named Achmed said it was all our own fault and told him he was in the wrong country. Chimbo jumped all over me for it. I posted nothing generically against arab-americans. However, anyone who is not on america's side today really should get the fuck out-regardless of their heritage.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 7:13:03 AM EDT
I'm a member of the NRA. I am a committee member of our local Friends of NRA chapter. I'm a member of the Texas Rifle Association. I donate regularly to causes that further the RKBA. I have the American flag at both my home & business. I wear the flag on my t-shirts when I'm at the gun range. I recite the Pledge of Allegiance every Thursday at my Rotary club meeting. I consider myself an American even though I was not born here. I am Islamic...& look it. Yesterday, my office manager asked me what side I was on. Dumfounded, I could not even muster a response. I guess I should have asked her what side she was on when Timothy McVeigh bombed the OK City Fed. Bldg. These will be trying times for anyone of Islamic "looks" or Middle East characterisitics. It will also test just how tolerant the US & its people are of it's Islaminc citizens. btw, Islam means Peace & preaches peace & tolerance. The Islamic radicals & fanatics that conduct terrorism against the US & other countries (including Islamic nations) are not representative of Islam. They represent a warped & violent view of they believe is true. Their hatred of the US is real & we have seen how far they are willing to go. I hope the US will be just as willing & determined when it comes time to retaliate against the butchering bastards. The loss of innocent civilian lives will not be tolerated. If WE have to go into Afghanistan on foot & find them, I say we do it & make a horrid example of them & their cowardly cronies. I am under the impression that their all out war against the US is just beginning. Signed, An Islamic American who is as outraged as any other American.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 7:15:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By drjarhead: I won't apologize. No f'ing way. Go to hell, Chimbo. I responded to another post where some jerk named Achmed said it was all our own fault and told him he was in the wrong country. Chimbo jumped all over me for it. I posted nothing generically against arab-americans. However, anyone who is not on america's side today really should get the fuck out-regardless of their heritage.
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Actually drjarhead, I jumped on you for your blatently racist and idiotic comments. Between this site and Ak-47, I have seen nothing even remotely intelligent from you. You only spew thoughtless hate because that is all you are apparently capable of. And like it or not, I am an American and I am here to stay. Whether you would accept me or not, I would go to war along side of you against whoever did this. Don't want me next to you? TOUGH SHIT.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 7:17:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By drjarhead: I won't apologize. No f'ing way. Go to hell, Chimbo. I responded to another post where some jerk named Achmed said it was all our own fault and told him he was in the wrong country. Chimbo jumped all over me for it. I posted nothing generically against arab-americans. However, anyone who is not on america's side today really should get the fuck out-regardless of their heritage.
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I 100% agree...if you are not for America you are against it. Leave, don't come back & if you do be prepared to eat lead...the hard way.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 7:18:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 7:20:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Matrix:
Originally Posted By drjarhead: I won't apologize. No f'ing way. Go to hell, Chimbo. I responded to another post where some jerk named Achmed said it was all our own fault and told him he was in the wrong country. Chimbo jumped all over me for it. I posted nothing generically against arab-americans. However, anyone who is not on america's side today really should get the fuck out-regardless of their heritage.
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I 100% agree...if you are not for America you are against it. Leave, don't come back & if you do be prepared to eat lead...the hard way.
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Omar...this is not directed at you but meant for anyone that is not 100% supportive of America...which you seem to be.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 7:23:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: Matrix, that's too bad that your office manager is an ass. However, there are lots of folks who LOUDLY proclaim themselves to be TRUE Muslims behind this mess. A little confusion is understandable and deplorable.
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A true Muslim would not even consider doing such a dastardly deed as this. The animals that did this need to be caught & punished.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 7:24:32 AM EDT
No, Chimbo, you are not an american and it has nothing to do with your heritage.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 7:35:41 AM EDT
Omar, I do not have you confused with someone else and I did read your post. In fact I think that is the problem and the reason that there are so many people pissed at you. We [i]did[/i] read your post and frankly [i]it[/i] is what brought all of us down on you. Prior to that no one was blaming you or directing any resentment in your direction. Read some of the replies above and you will see that has now changed. This is a war boy. Plain and simple. And as in all wars there are two sides and no middle ground. You demonstrated your sympathies, therefore your [i]side[/i] is with them. Now you are surprised that people here are pissed at you? Right now there are a lot of people here that would not piss on you if you were on fire. I'm one of them.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 7:38:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By drjarhead: No, Chimbo, you are not an american and it has nothing to do with your heritage.
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Please enlighten me as to why I am not an American. I really have no idea why you don't think I am. Is it because I won't blindly follow and act without the facts? Please tell me. I apologize for any derogatory statements I have made to you. I am ready for a discussion. Explain.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 7:48:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2001 10:53:43 AM EDT by Chimborazo]
[b][SIZE=3][blue]WHERE HAVE I SHOWN ANY SYMPATHY FOR THE ATTACKERS?? SHOW ME...QUOTE ME.[/blue][/SIZE=3][/B] I assure you I have NO sympathy for these assholes. Show me something I said that shows sympathy for them. Give a link to the thread. If there is something, you either misunderstood it or I explained it poorly. [b][red]I'm tired of being accused of saying things when nobody can provide any direct quotations[/red][/b] [i]Edited because I made those blue letters too damn big. It was starting to get on my nerves.[/i]
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 9:03:54 AM EDT
Omar, I went back and reread your fist two post in the thread you began yesterday. (I did not read your post beyond that in that thread.) You are correct that no where, at least in those first two post, did you sympathize with the terrorist or attempt to condone their actions. I think the issue that brought so much heat upon you from members, myself included, was the fact that you began an angry thread accusing members of steriotyping all Arabics(sp?) and, essentially, hate mongering [i]your[/i] people. That may have not been your intent and you may not have been trying to align or other wise associtate yourself with that "faction". But the end result is that is the way it was taken by many here, again, including myself. Upon rereading you post it is clear that your intent was to vocalize your displeasure with members using rascist terms to describe people of your ethnic heritage. (Correct me if I am wrong in your intent.) That was simply the wrong time to shout racism to the AR15.com masses. Certainly using terms like, rag head, diaper head, sand niger, dune coon and camel jockey are not productive and get us no where. Terms such as those lower the speaker, or in this cases the typist, to a level that is unacceptable in contemporary society. The situation was compounded by your, [i]our[/i], fellow board member Achmed shouting to the roof tops that this was inevitable due to US policy and our usurping the rights of the poor oppressed Islamic nation. It did not help that your topic heading stated in bold type that we, AR15.com'ers, made you sick because of our statements and feelings. We, were, are and shall continue to be pissed off for some time. We will and will continue to be pissed off at what is the most likely target of this incident until we are proven other wise. You, I and everyone here knows that the odds of this being someone of Arabic decent is the most likely possiblity. The bottom line is, again, no one was directing comments towards you until you call in a fire strike on your own postition. But I will take back one of the things I said about you. I would piss on you.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 11:21:08 AM EDT
Gunslinger, Thank you for re-reading my previous posts. Let me clarify though. I was not taking issue with the mere use of those words, as they mean nothing to me. I was also not taking issue with people voicing they're opinions, racist or not. I was challenging those who were making "round up and deport them or kill them" kinds of remarks. I understand that much of this was out of anger, and that some of these people making these comments would not want me personally to be deported (I hope). I also reacted out of anger. However, I WAS NOT asking anybody to change what they wrote...I was challenging their thought. Additionally, I believe I started the post saying that "[i]some of you (you know who you are) make me sick[/i]". So the only people who should have reacted negatively are the ones who felt what I was accusing them of. I also ended the post with a thank you to those who were being rational and pointing out that the people I was taking issue with were in the minority (which they were at that point). Anyway, I really don't want to beat this horse much more. I think you better understand now what I was saying, and vice versa. Perhaps my timing was bad, and for that I am sorry. It was just really difficult to sit here and read some of these things coming out of the minds of people I respect on this board without responding. Again, thank you for your response...this type of discussion is so much more productive. As for your last statement:
But I will take back one of the things I said about you. I would piss on you.
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You owe me a new keyboard. But seriously, Thanks. [:\]Did I just thank you for saying you'd piss on me? [:D]
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 11:30:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2001 11:32:22 AM EDT by gus]
I posted my apology precisely because I re-read Omar's posts and realized I had acted like a complete asshole. He was rightly pissed about another thread I started about how it wasn't about Isreal anymore and that ALL Muslims should be "wasted". Granted, I had just been informed about my cousin who at the time was missing, but I'm not usually prone to kneejerk reactions like that. I have since deleted that thread. Most (not all) folks of Arabic descent that are in this country are here BECAUSE of freedom. Only a very few are here despite it. I have no doubt that the vast majority are as outraged as me or even more so about this attack, and would gladly go to arms in defense of America. It's still pretty soon after a huge loss of American life to senseless terrorism, but I believe most of the Arab bashers on this board will eventually calm down and come to their senses. P.S. Omar, I'd piss on you too!!! [;D] Only if you were on fire though.....
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 12:40:42 PM EDT
Oh, stop it guys, you're making me all misty.[>(] [:D]
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 12:54:25 PM EDT
Chimbo, Anyone who berates our nation or even our government over this is not american. Granted, this is only my opinion but it is one I will hold until the day I die. I have nothing personal against you and until several posts after your response to my critism of Achmed, I had no idea what your heritage is. Still somewhat uncertain. I really have explained all of this in previous posts, which you said you read. There is no gray area here. You either stand with America (yes, with a c, not a k, today) or you stand against. You've chosen to stand with those who would berate my nation in its greatest moment of need, while living under its blanket of freedom and protection. One day soon many of us may have to go to war. I have little doubt that you would remain behind, benefiting from the loss of many. FWIW, I feel the same way about JP for freedom, Imbroglio, Achmed, others. All lend aid and comfort to the enemy and ought to hold their heads in shame. We openly criticize such as Hanoi Jane for doing the same. Maybe we should make some name changes here: Kabaul Chimbo Bagdad Imbroglio Tehran JP Achmed the..... It makes me ill to see the state of men in this country anymore. We've become a nation of pussies and this is exactly why events such as these continue to escalate. What the hell comes next. Should be obvious. Maybe, only to me. This shit will never stop until we put an end to it for good. I'd rather get it over now than have my children and grandchildren die later. Clearly there is only one thing that people such as these and their supporters/sympathisers understand. I am all for making it perfectly clear. Wherever this event originated there is no doubt that it all has to end, and now. Fuck Bin Laden, Fuck the Taliban, Fuck the Iraqi's, Fuck the Palestinians. There are others around the world. They should be ferreted out and destroyed without prejudice. I have no doubt that you rationalize such events to PC liberal, yuppie POS's who don't have the balls to stand up to you. I am not one. I only hope that there are enough men in this country with the balls to do what is required here.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 1:10:25 PM EDT
Hang on a minute here. Where in the hell did I defend what was done? You sir, are so blind with hatred and see enemies everywhere you look that you should not be around weapons as you are not only a danger to yourself, but others around you. Maybe if you go back and READ what I have posted you would get it through your thick skull that I was criticizing those who are calling for ethnic cleansing, genocide, and saying it is ok to attack AMERICANS if they look middle eastern. Do you support that? It sure seems that way. YOU are the one that is not American. All this incident has demonstrated is that there are MANY on this site who were closet wanna be facists and were using the 2nd Amendment and the rest of the Constitution as a facade. This site should suit you better: [url]resist.org[/url]
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 1:12:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By drjarhead: Anyone who berates our nation or even our government over this is not american. . . . It makes me ill to see the state of men in this country anymore. We've become a nation of pussies and this is exactly why events such as these continue to escalate.
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Gee, who seems to be berating our nation?
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 1:46:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: Hang on a minute here. Where in the hell did I defend what was done? You sir, are so blind with hatred and see enemies everywhere you look that you should not be around weapons as you are not only a danger to yourself, but others around you. Maybe if you go back and READ what I have posted you would get it through your thick skull that I was criticizing those who are calling for ethnic cleansing, genocide, and saying it is ok to attack AMERICANS if they look middle eastern. Do you support that? It sure seems that way. YOU are the one that is not American. All this incident has demonstrated is that there are MANY on this site who were closet wanna be facists and were using the 2nd Amendment and the rest of the Constitution as a facade. This site should suit you better: [url]resist.org[/url]
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Well said! Why attack fellow Americans just because they look like they might be from the Middle East? Doesn't make any sense to me. Wanna kick some ass? Get a ticket to the Middle East & kick away...leave the rest of us AMERICANS alone...we didn't do it, we don't condone, we want justice for it...we are AS enraged about it as you are. Ethnicity is not what this issue is about. Its about attacking the very essence of freedom in this country & terrorizing (at least attempting to) us to change our way of life. Watch "The Siege" again...art imitates life. "What if that's what they want? Bend the constitution a little, shred it a little here, a little there...if we do that then we have already lost."
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 2:04:08 PM EDT
First: Imbroglio. I was all set to apologize to you with great remorse. I will still apologize as my review of some of your posts did not demonstrate what I thought you had said. You did support Achmed in his blame of the US for engaging in foreign afairs as being responsible for the events of yesterday. You are right about one thing, though. I have plenty of hatred over this right now. Regardless of how I feel about my government I have a deep love for my country and what it represents. I simply cannot imagine how anyone can twist this around to become our fault. Its like blaming a burglary victim for leaving his door open. I am definitely not for any "ethnic cleansing" etc. and I resent the implication. You are the one attempting to lump together all who disagree with you under numerous labels, here. As for calling me a fascist, etc. I'll let that go under the circumstances. I doubt you would ever find anyone more against such policies than I am. This is simply not the time to be criticizing our nation. I'll leave it at that if you will. Second: DonS. Don't take one snippet of my post and twist it around to fit your point of view. I have never berated this nation and you know it as well as I do. I have made negative comments about our government in the past. Now is simply not the time. It is a time to rally together against a common foe and I am having some difficulty dealing with people who fail to understand that. I have berated many of the men in this country and that is deserved. Since WWII there has been a steady decline. I won't elaborate-don't think I have to and I don't think there is enough computer memory. The question now is whether there are enough men with what it takes to get the job done?
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 2:18:37 PM EDT
Matrix, Now where in the hell did you get the idea that it is my intent to "shred the constitution"? I think that this should lead to us having more rights and freedoms, not less. Where did I say anything about attacking arab-americans? You bet your ass I'll attack those who attempt to blame us for the events of yesterday, whatever their descent and if some of you can't handle that to damn bad. As for going to the middle east, that would seem to be a very real possibility. It may not help morale any to know what is going to be left behind.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 2:58:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By drjarhead: Second: DonS. Don't take one snippet of my post and twist it around to fit your point of view. I have never berated this nation and you know it as well as I do. I have made negative comments about our government in the past. Now is simply not the time. It is a time to rally together against a common foe and I am having some difficulty dealing with people who fail to understand that. I have berated many of the men in this country and that is deserved. Since WWII there has been a steady decline. I won't elaborate-don't think I have to and I don't think there is enough computer memory. The question now is whether there are enough men with what it takes to get the job done?
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I don't see how you can have a low opinion of the men in a country, and still respect the country. You might respect some of our traditions, but that is a different thing. Basically, I don't see how you can berate the men of a nation without berating the nation as a whole. I'm not sure to what extent there has been a decline among men in this country. The "Greatest Generation" was also one of our most socialist generations, so excuse me if I don't sing their praises (I tend to view our founding generation as our greatest generation). The current generation may not be as tough, but they are argubly less socialist in outlook. As far as not critizing the government in times like these, that idea sounds more European than American.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 3:57:14 PM EDT
I still hold this nation high even though there are tons of people in it that I have a low opinion of. The urban areas of this country (including my neighborhood) are filled with people that are useless to America. They have no ties to this country and care nothing for what it stands. They were made Americans for a handout, and all they still care about is the handout. There were people that were born here that know nothing about what "WE" all know America is about. They don't want to lend a hand for anythin. All the parents we have come in contact with don't give a crap about what their kids are doing or learning. We ask them for help w/ their own children, and they do nothing. But as soon as we are giving something away or offering something, the same people are standing in line to be the first to get it. These same people destroy our neighbohoods and blame everyone but themselves ("It's the white man."). I love this country and alot of it's areas, but I despise anyone who lives here and doesn't put their hand in and earn the priveledge to be here. If you are not a contributing member to our society, you are useless. This description fits a large portion of our society and culture, but they are not the true America. This is why I can berate these "Americans" and still love America.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 6:01:15 AM EDT
drjarhead, You still have not been able to provide even ONE example of me berating our nation or defending these attackers. You are blind, and you're assumptions about me are incorrect. Again, I challenge you to find any evidence on this board or others that give your previous statements about me ANY merit at all. Still waiting, Chimborazo
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 6:19:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 6:27:03 AM EDT
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