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Posted: 8/21/2001 5:22:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 5:25:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 5:31:21 PM EDT
All true RAF. it is sad that it goes in that direction rather than learning of what we have in common, and experienceing our our differences.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 5:33:34 PM EDT
I thought you meant why cant we talk about the race. I dont know where or if they raced this weekend. [beer]
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 5:41:41 PM EDT
There is only one race the human one. Everyone finishes and they all receive their just reward at the end.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 5:44:56 PM EDT
eoivpnvtpe89yrt0e98cfor39uc,towrn 0983qyrmq98c4n509qv7r-8n09c875-q9784x,m09qut,mqoepciqwme8903u7nb8o63509ne5b4­6w456vw456w546vbe5bv567bn68nm9768nb5674364bnu­oyl,iop Landon
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 5:48:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 5:51:21 PM EDT
The problem with most discussions of racial problems is that, whatever the beliefs of those involved, they never get around to discussing SOLUTIONS to those problems.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 5:58:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Landon: eoivpnvtpe89yrt0e98cfor39uc,towrn 0983qyrmq98c4n509qv7r-8n09c875-q9784x,m09qut,mqoepciqwme8903u7nb8o63509ne5b4­6w456vw456w546vbe5bv567bn68nm9768nb5674364bnu­oyl,iop Landon
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He's trying so hard.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 6:02:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tras:
Originally Posted By Landon: eoivpnvtpe89yrt0e98cfor39uc,towrn 0983qyrmq98c4n509qv7r-8n09c875-q9784x,m09qut,mqoepciqwme8903u7nb8o63509ne5b4­6w456vw456w546vbe5bv567bn68nm9768nb5674364bnu­oyl,iop Landon
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He's trying so hard.
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Looks like a recent high school graduate to me.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 6:02:30 PM EDT
So what is there to talk about ? IMHO, at the rate we are going there will be only one race in another 100 years or so [at least in the US.]When it comes right down to it we are The American Race,social ancestory shouldn't play any part.Whats good for one is good for all at the business I run,If you CHOOSE to BE different, then thats a personal issue or maybe problem, depending upon your point of view.I have many good, trusted friends from many diverse social/ethnic backgrounds,and I believe that in order to be a true american, one has to ignore differences of origin, and go forward from some point.Iguess the biggest problem for most is finding that point. There, I came forward with an opinion, and am ready for the flam'in. John
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 6:02:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Landon: eoivpnvtpe89yrt0e98cfor39uc,towrn 0983qyrmq98c4n509qv7r-8n09c875-q9784x,m09qut,mqoepciqwme8903u7nb8o63509ne5b4­6w456vw456w546vbe5bv567bn68nm9768nb5674364bnu­oyl,iop Landon
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Encrypted message to all of your followers to assemble for the arrival of The Supreme Leader?[%|]
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 6:06:30 PM EDT
Trbomax is right, it wont be about color in the future but about $$$$$. Haves an Have nots. It should be interesting!
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 6:14:14 PM EDT
There is a guy out at the chemical plant I work at who was horribly burned in an industrial accident. You can’t tell what “race” he used to be (no hair, skin, nose or ears) just scar tissue and eyes. He doesn’t even look like a "human" anymore. But he is one of the best members of the human race I know.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 6:28:52 PM EDT
In my way of thinking if we can't talk about race, then this isn't really a General Discussion Board. I mean when George W. gets about 65% of the white vote, and Gore gets 90% of the black vote, there's a racial component in that story that is germane to our shared [u]history[/u] (I almost said 'misery'), and our shared future. It simply MUST be discussed. Jes' my humble opinion. Eric The(SorryISaidAnything)Hun
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 6:29:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: The problem with most discussions of racial problems is that, whatever the beliefs of those involved, they never get around to discussing SOLUTIONS to those problems.
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The reason there are no workable SOLUTIONS is because nature hasn't repealed the fact that "birds of a feather flock together." When the birds flock together, we call it "segregation" and in our PCish "embrace diversity" world, segregation is a bad thing. Society is trying to force a process that hasn't worked for any other mammals. Despite all the years of racial "progress" since the Brown v. Board of Education decision, our ability to discuss racial issues in a public forum has deteriorated. Probably because many of us, on both sides of the tracks, realize we are programmed to prefer the company of our own.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 6:38:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2001 6:38:28 PM EDT by seamusmcoi]
Because you can't talk about race without getting differing opinions. And some people on this board don't take nicely to differing opinions when it comes to racial issues, and are offended. Whether there is logic behind the opinion or not. And the people here don't seem to like to be offended, their feelings seem to get hurt very easily. And the people who run this board don't like it when peoples feelings are hurt. So don't hurt anybodys feelings, ok. edited so I didn't hurt anybodys feelings (ok, because I'm too stupid to use spell check)
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 6:43:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 6:56:05 PM EDT
We can't discuss it because American popular culture depends on several false notions. One of which is the equality of man, and by extension, of race. Discussion of the subject threatens the Illusion. This, of course, frightens those who don't have anything else that they believe in. A healthier culture wouldn't fear the truth. A case in point: There are people saying that guns cause crime. These people MUST blame it on guns, because to place the blame where it belongs would show the utter foolishness of their "equality" belief.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 7:04:49 PM EDT
Sigh. Already a couple posts have proven my point. The blame game won't solve the problem....and the problem exists.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 7:06:53 PM EDT
See what I mean?
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 7:12:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 7:45:25 PM EDT
[b]Here goes.[/b] The story is that the US is plagued by violent crimes because Americans are by nature a violent people, with a history of unrelieved violence, usually directed by one group of folks against another. Another story I hear is that if White Americans are considered separately from other Americans, statistically their rate of violent crimes is of a smaller percentage than any nation in Europe, or than any other industrialzed nation in the world other than Japan and Singapore. That it is the rate of violent crimes committed by non-White groups of Americans that causes the US numbers to rank higher than any other industrialized nation! Which story do you believe? And why? Eric The(PullingThePinOnALiveGrenade!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 8:10:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 8:14:59 PM EDT
Because some people cannot handle facts, they start screaming racist as soon as they disagree.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 8:25:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: In my way of thinking if we can't talk about race, then this isn't really a General Discussion Board. I mean when George W. gets about 65% of the white vote, and Gore gets 90% of the black vote, there's a racial component in that story that is germane to our shared [u]history[/u] (I almost said 'misery'), and our shared future.
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That makes me wonder what percentage of blacks voted for Marion Barry versus what percentage of whites.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 8:31:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2001 8:42:39 PM EDT by EricTheHun]
Yes, Americans have had a very violent past, but it has surprised me that whenever the need for violence ended, the very warriors involved in the worst violence reverted to some pretty peaceful folk, indeed. When the War Between The States ended, it pretty much came to a screeching halt. Other that the Radical Republican Reconstructionists, the men of the South and North quit killing each other, and forgave each other. Old war wounds healed at least on the inside, if not the outside. The Country got back together again. After the fiercest of the Indian Wars, all was forgiven (if not forgotten) and Americans paid good money to see Indians acting like Indians in Buffalo Bill Cody's Wild West Show, bought their artwork, visited their reservations, and generally conducted themselves with honor on both sides. I'm certain that the pregnant 15 year old Shoshone Indian girl named Sacagawea would be most astounded that her figure graced the US's newest $1.00 coin. When WWI ended, Germans were immediately brought back into the American Family (if they were ever outside of it in the first place). Ditto with WWII. US heroes in Europe and Asia brought back 'war brides' with little fear of rejection to their homes in the South, Midwest, wherever. Whole families of former enemies made it here. Then we welcomed Korean and Vietnamese refugees with open arms. So yes, we are a violent people at times, but when the din of battle is hushed, so are our most violent emotions. Eric The(We'reAGreatPeople,CauseWe'reAGoodPeople)H­un[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 8:40:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 8:57:48 PM EDT
Post from Raven -
That makes me wonder what percentage of blacks voted for Marion Barry versus what percentage of whites.
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Yeah, or what percentage of white Republicans voted for Alan Keyes in the GOP Primaries! Eric The(IDid!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 9:04:11 PM EDT
My point exactly
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 9:20:29 PM EDT
Go on talk, have your dialog, you'll see why. The Democrats did a good job of stifling racial dialog in this country the past eight years. There is no free speech in America today because of Democratic sponsored government legislation, along with government intimidation and harassment. Express your views and you will have Janet for breakfast. If your white that is.
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 10:20:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2001 10:45:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Confederate: Because some people cannot handle facts, they start screaming racist as soon as they disagree.
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Boy, This statement SCREAMS truth!
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 3:03:52 AM EDT
We can talk about race all you like. It usually degenerates rapidly, since people strongly defend their right to speak the absolute gospel truth: Blacks tend to be criminals Blacks tend to be on welfare Blacks tend to be savages Cities and countries run by blacks are cesspools. And of course, should you suggest that the above may not be the absolute gospel truth, and that the generalization might be unfair to the plenty of hardworking decent black people, you will be branded as a liberal leftist socialist communist who cannot handle the truth. So we usually abandon the race topics and move on to the "Let's stand at the border and shoot down all the immigrants" topics. I have been on Internet forums since 1992, in the days of Usenet newsgroups, and they are usually not conducive to reasonable discussion of sensitive issues.
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 3:08:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: When WWI ended, Germans were immediately brought back into the American Family (if they were ever outside of it in the first place). Ditto with WWII. US heroes in Europe and Asia brought back 'war brides' with little fear of rejection to their homes in the South, Midwest, wherever. Whole families of former enemies made it here. Eric The(We'reAGreatPeople,CauseWe'reAGoodPeople)H­un[>]:)]
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You forgot about the American citizens of Japanese birth, who we generously housed and fed during World War II in government facilities. Not to say that we are a people who can be driven to hysteria just like anyone else, but if we forget our past we are condemned to repeat it.
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 3:29:01 AM EDT
Post from ckapsl -
You forgot about the American citizens of Japanese birth, who we generously housed and fed during World War II in government facilities.
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And when the perceived threat was ended, the relocation and detention came to an end. I was not alive back then, but somehow Americans of good will and ordinarily good sense came to the conclusion that the detention camps were a good idea. Remember the Relief Given Japan by the American People following their deadly Earthquake of 1934? And that Relief was delivered during our Great Depression! I suppose that the Americans were astonished that their largesse would be so wantonly repaid by Japanese infamy! But the how many other governments have been so gracious as paying restitution to the living victims of their clouded judgments? Even at this late date, has the Japanese Government, and, more importantly, the Japanese people ever really accepted their enormous guilt for their misdeeds in WWII? Their history books don't reflect the truth! Have the Korean 'comfort girls' ever been recompensed and appologized to by the Japanese?
Not to say that we are a people who can be driven to hysteria just like anyone else, but if we forget our past we are condemned to repeat it.
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If that was hysteria, then we can be proud that our hysteria was practiced in such a bloodless and ultimately benign manner. Eric The(Forget?Hell!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 3:55:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Yeah, or what percentage of white Republicans voted for Alan Keyes in the GOP Primaries!
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I sure did! [:)]
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 4:04:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: But the how many other governments have been so gracious as paying restitution to the living victims of their clouded judgments? Even at this late date, has the Japanese Government, and, more importantly, the Japanese people ever really accepted their enormous guilt for their misdeeds in WWII? Their history books don't reflect the truth! Have the Korean 'comfort girls' ever been recompensed and appologized to by the Japanese?
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Why should we use other people's misdeeds as our guide? Aren't we better than them?
Not to say that we are a people who can be driven to hysteria just like anyone else, but if we forget our past we are condemned to repeat it.
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If that was hysteria, then we can be proud that our hysteria was practiced in such a bloodless and ultimately benign manner.
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Why was there hysteria at all? We didn't lock up Americans of German and Italian origin during WWII. The next hysteria will likely be against gun owners, and as we will probably be in adjoining suites in Club Fed, we can talk about how grateful we are that we are being treated in such a bloodless and benign manner. Oh, and yes, about the Radical Republican Reconstructionists, you forgot to mention the many people who paid visits to newly emancipated blacks to check on their welfare, generally visiting them in the night, and wearing white so that they could be easily identified from a distance without causing alarm. Jeez, Eric, if you have a completely one-sided view of history, it really doesn't do you any good. I am proud to be an American, and I think it is still the greatest country on earth. But I will not whitewash its history in order to come to that conclusion. Accept the good with the bad. There have been a few ugly things that have happened in the history of our republic. That does not mean that we are bad people [b]today[/b]. It does mean that we should understand and remember what happened so that it does not happen again.
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 4:08:53 AM EDT
By the by, just how were American and other European [u]civilians[/u] treated by the wise yet inscrutible government of Japan and its people during the late unpleasantness. How does one say 'inhuman prison camps' in Japanese? And what of the standing Imperial Order that [b]all[/b] military prisoners and [u]civilian detainees[/u] were to be executed at the moment that the expected US invasion of the Japanese home islands began? Figure at least 200,000 American and European civilians were saved by the atomic conclusion to the War in the Pacific! Eric The(I[u]Never[/u]ForgetThePast!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 4:12:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2001 4:10:38 AM EDT by ckapsl]
The Japanese government were scum. Some of them were held answerable for their crimes during the war and some of them were executed. I also support our use of the atomic bombs to end the war. But I repeat: Why should we use other people's misdeeds as our guide? Aren't we better than them? The [b]American citizens[/b] of Japanese origin in the US had done nothing to harm America, or anybody else. To use your logic, since we fought Saddam Hussein during the Gulf War, we should have had the right to use poison gas on Iraqi civilians.
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 4:21:53 AM EDT
>>>American popular culture depends on several false notions. One of which is the equality of man >>>utter foolishness of their "equality" belief. i seem to recall something about "all men are created equal", and "inalienable rights" and "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". utter foolishness?
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 4:46:27 AM EDT
Post from ckapsl -
Why should we use other people's misdeeds as our guide? Aren't we better than them?
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Sure we are, most undoubtedly! I thought we were supposed to remember the past, but why? So we can measure our actions against the past actions of others. I never fail but to find that we have exceeded them in every manner.
Why was there hysteria at all?
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Well, I suppose it had something to do with the perceived threat of invasion of the West Coast by Imperial Japan. During any such invasion, I suppose that rightly or wrongly, FDR and his cohorts figured that Japanese-Americans might suffer to some degree, based solely upon the way they 'looked.'
We didn't lock up Americans of German and Italian origin during WWII.
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Actually, we did lock up some German-American civilans in the same detention camps as the Japanese-Americans. Just not a lot.
...we can talk about how grateful we are that we are being treated in such a bloodless and benign manner.
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Well I guess some of us will be grateful. Not I. I will be in the boonies, thank you. But I expect that anyone who does go into such camps will not be tortured and raped, as in Japanese civilian detainee camps. Isn't this where we began?
Oh, and yes, about the Radical Republican Reconstructionists, you forgot to mention the many people who paid visits to newly emancipated blacks to check on their welfare, generally visiting them in the night, and wearing white so that they could be easily identified from a distance without causing alarm.
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How many night visitors would you estimate made such jaunts? I mean out of a population of many millions of whites, just how many? And were they government sponsored night visitors? Or folks on their own? I would think [u]hundreds[/u] possibly. Maybe several thousand if you include Northern states such as Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana, where the Klan flourished in the early 20th century, as a response against immigrants, Catholics etc.
Jeez, Eric, if you have a completely one-sided view of history, it really doesn't do you any good.
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I simply don't have a completely one-sided view of history, but if what I've heard is history, well it's news to me! Is this the kind of lame-assed history pap that's being fed American students today? We've all done evil! No one is more evil than anyone else! KumByYah! I will not sit idly by when someone foolishly attempts to equate Manzanar with Dachau! Gila River Detention Center with Buchenwald! Crystal Lake Detention Center with the Bataan Death Camps!
I am proud to be an American, and I think it is still the greatest country on earth. But I will not whitewash its history in order to come to that conclusion.
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Good news, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WHITEWASH CAUSE THERE'S SO DAMN LITTLE THAT NEEDS TO BE WHITEWASHED! We can live with what's there, and proudly, too!
Accept the good with the bad. There have been a few ugly things that have happened in the history of our republic. That does not mean that we are bad people today. It does mean that we should understand and remember what happened so that it does not happen again.
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...Nevermind. This politically correct view of history leaves me speechless. Eric The(OldFart)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 4:46:46 AM EDT
Equal under the law and the eyes of God; yes. However, there is such a thing as Good and Bad, and the latter is not equal to the former. It is my position that someone like John Wayne Gacy is not my equal. Likewise, a race of people that has contributed almost nothing to human civilization is not the equal of another race that has contributed much. Sure, someone's feelings are going to get hurt, but I've got enough sense than to send my daughter out to the darker side of town to fetch a gallon of milk. As it was pointed out in Orwell's Animal Farm, "some are more equal than others".
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 4:52:36 AM EDT
Post from ckapsl -
To use your logic, since we fought Saddam Hussein during the Gulf War, we should have had the right to use poison gas on Iraqi civilians.
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What the F are you talking about? 'My logic' leads to gassing Iraqi civilians?????? Get a grip, son. Eric The(AreYouSureYou'reFromTexas?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 5:16:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Sigh. Already a couple posts have proven my point. The blame game won't solve the problem....and the problem exists.
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What is "the problem"?
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 5:44:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Renamed:
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Sigh. Already a couple posts have proven my point. The blame game won't solve the problem....and the problem exists.
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What is "the problem"?
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The problem is the American black subculture and its interaction with the rest of the nation. It's a dysfunctional societal group, with a skewed system of values that glorifies victimhood, criminal behavior, violence and the objectification of women. Now, the people who are what I like to call genetic racists will claim that this is because blacks are naturally less intelligent and more violent than whites, but this is clearly not the case. The liberals will claim that it's because of continuing discrimination, but that doesn't tell the whole story either. IMHO, an analogy for the American black subculture---and by that I mean the lower-economic-class culture, as well-to-do black people tend to act much differently---would be a young man who's grown up in a broken home and been physically and emotionally abused. At 18, he's kicked out into the world and acts inappropriately because he's never been taught any better. This was basically the case with blacks in America. They were brought here as slaves, and once they were freed, they were treated like crap for another century. Should we be surprised that they haven't assimilated into the American Melting Pot after that? Should we be surprised that a large segment of black society still holds lingering resentment? Hell, look at the Serbs and Croats...they've hated each other for centuries, and this is just as bad a situation. But it's key that we realize that the entrenched American black subculture CANNOT be dealt with as monolith, or through its self-appointed political leaders, such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. They are enablers for everything that's wrong with the American black low-income social structure. But what we ALSO can't do is just ignore the problem and hope it will go away, or worse give into prejudice and simply stigmatize all black people simply because some of them buy into the subculture. BLAMING people won't solve this problem, it will only exacerbate it. I am not sure if it CAN be solved, but I do know that the only way to do it will be on an individual level, most likely at a very young age, which probably means in schools. We need to find a way to reach out to individual black people who are in the cities, in low-income situations, and teach them that it's not "selling out" or being an "Uncle Tom" to do well in school, to try to fit into a professional business world, or to do well on your own without government help.
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 5:45:32 AM EDT
Continued: The liberals are right that continuing racism has exacerbated the problem of the black low-income subculture...and that racism has been by those very same liberals. They won't deal with the real problem and they won't let black people help themselves because they don't believe they CAN. So they continually pander to them by throwing money at them, as if that will solve all their problems. The conservatives haven't been too much better...they usually ignore them, afraid to say anything lest they be labelled a racist. And of course there are the virulent and vocal racists who we've seen too many of on this and other message boards, who do nothing but throw around blame and hatred and make it even harder for black people who WANT to abandon that subculture to have anywhere else to go. There are some signs that black people in general are starting to disown the subculture, but the problem is, even those people still mistrust whites...perhaps with good reason, in many cases. Our society is and has been fragmenting before our eyes, and I have yet to see anyone in power try to deal with it in an intelligent manner.
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 5:52:48 AM EDT
>>>a race of people that has contributed almost nothing to human civilization is not the equal of another race that has contributed much. i think it's pretty clear how you feel about "races" (i'm assuming here) other than your own. >>>"some are more equal than others". unfortunately, orwell used that expression to point out how oppressive regimes justify themselves.
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 6:15:16 AM EDT
I think the problem with discussing race is that individual actions/or opinions are somehow seens as representating entire races. To discuss, one sometimes takes the role as messenger, and the messenger often gets shot. I personally have no problem with racists...I know some or many people dislike my race. The problem beings when those people try to interfere with my rights, my ability to provide bread and butter for my family or my enjoyment of life in general. But when it happens, and it does happen, I deal with each racist as an individual. Otherwise I'd just go around bitter all the time. This coping mechanism helps me keep faith that people are generally good. And in the worst case, if our community and country just goes totally tango uniform, I will be able to properly employ my AR-15s and other devices to protect my family. I expect racists are preparing and even look forward to such a time. Although I don't look forward and actaully dread such a time, I will however, be prepared.
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 6:30:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2001 7:03:06 AM EDT
Rikwriter might be the only reasonable conservative I heard.[;)] I'm just waiting for someone to start complaining about some of the icons.
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